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andoryuu_25

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Posts posted by andoryuu_25

  1. I looked at Dryden's numbers and they are very impressive. 5 time Vezina winner in one decade is something nobody else can write home about I'm sure. I'm not sure Savard beats out Robinson though. It's all subjective and everybody has their own opinion but i think Robinson should have gone in before Savard for ON ICE value of course. Ultimately I don't care because all these guys deserve to and will get in so who cares what order they get in anyways?

  2. Lafleurs Guy,

    Good post and I'll agree with you that the discussion of the large equipement should perhaps be in another thread so let's drop that issue altoegther.

    I am of the opinion, and many others may agree, that when the Av's move to Colorado, they were ready to win it all. If Thibault failed there was always Fiset but the Av's were too much for the Red Wings whether Roy was there or not. It would not have made a difference in the end because they were a legitimate contender.

    I don't allow my animosity to cloud my objectivity because I have no animosity towards Roy. I only state my opinion, I don't hate the guy. None of us here knows the real guy just his public image so therefore I can't dislike the guy to the point that my objectivity is not correct. I simply believe that what he did to the franchise, hwich had long lasting repercussions, negates any good he ever did here and that time does not heal all wounds. Nor should it. If we retire somebody's number based on their worth to the organization then their ENTIRE history of conduct should be judged not just select deeds that were positive in his favor.

    Good debate!!!

  3. In the real world you are judged by your actions and Roy reacted like a 5 year old when he was left out to face the Wings for a few too many goals. I have no respect for a guy that allowed his ego to DISRESPECT this franchise, it's fans and the managment that he handcuffed into trading him. I'd have traded him to Timbuktu before moving him to a contender which Colorado already was. Had you left either Thibeault or Fiset in nets that season they would have won the Cup. We gave ROY a Cup by moving him and he gave us the finger on the way out.

    You can say what you want but somebody will come along and blow his records out of the water in a league designed to produce goals. Roy's oversized equipement (now illegal) and the teams defence ahead of him (he always had a good D or offense in Colorado) have led to his status today. Am I saying he wasn't good? Of course not, only an idiot would say Roy wasn't one of the best, I am saying that before we sancify him and turn him into a Saint let's be realisitic. He betrayed this team and the fans by his actions. I'd be OK with that if he ever ONCE apologized or showed remorse for his regrettable actions. his Ego will never allow him to concede that he made a mistake and in his mind...we should apoogize to him for HIS conduct.

    His jersey should never hang from above....it will only diminish the ones that bled for their team....not abandoned it. He should have put the team first and taken the abuse to his Ego and become a legend in this town instead of a tired debate as to his worth. What a wasted opportunity to prove he was the greatest of all time.[/quote:2baa40263b]

    He apologized the next day.

    Look, everyone knows the guy made a mistake, Roy himself has acknowledged it. You're right about him acting like a child, he should never have done it and he embarrassed himself in the process. I think we can find it in our hearts to forgive him though.

    He won us 2 cups, set numerous goaltending records and was flat out terrific. All of this nonsense about large equipment really is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. Morevoer, to say that the Avs would've won the cup with Thibeault is just plain ridiculous, they never would've got past Detroit. You want to come up with arguments against Roy, fine. I'm sure you can find things to criticize about his game. The fact remains though that he is largely acknowledged as the best goalie of his time.

    Bottom line is, he's earned the right to have his number retired. The Canadiens, being the class organization that they are, will honour him. As they should. He deserves it.[/quote:2baa40263b]

    He did apologize the next day...but remorse isn't just words it is actions. He did nothing aside from apologizing to redeem himself.

    This is what his actions cost us: We got forced into trading him for next to nothing because he said he'd NEVER play for us again. That handcuffs you and basically leaves you no room to make a decent trade. That, to me, negates the achievements he had while he was here. We felt the effects of his actions for a long time while he moved on to a perrenial winner to achieve even more. It only proves it all about him.

    Large equipement is NOT irrelevant since he used it to his advantage. The Av's would have won with a monkey in nets and you know it. Thibault AND Fiset were doing just fine winning before Patrick came along and that team was destined to win. The Nordiques didn't go to Colorado and sudenly become a force to reckon with once Roy got there. They were better than the Habs in many ways before they left. Afetrwards, they bought talent with their unlimited funds and Roy had a D to contend with. It's not like he did it alone.

    In my opinion, people will either want him in or out and no amount of debate will ever change their opinions. This is a white or black issue for most including myself. I say never let him in and you say he should get in. Both opinions are valid because they are opinions and we are fans!!! If he gets retired so what? It's not like I'll stop being a Habs fan cuz they retired an undeserving jersey.

  4. ..........You can say what you want but somebody will come along and blow his records out of the water in a league designed to produce goals. Roy's oversized equipement (now illegal) and the teams defence ahead of him (he always had a good D or offense in Colorado) have led to his status today. .............He should have put the team first and taken the abuse to his Ego and become a legend in this town instead of a tired debate as to his worth. What a wasted opportunity to prove he was the greatest of all time.[/quote:47cd028c76]

    1 - It will be pretty tough in today's hockey for someone to match his records - maybe Brodeur

    2 - his equipment was legal when he played , so saying that it would have been illegal now is irrelevant, besides Hasak, Belfour etc all played during the same era and they have still a ways to go to match him

    3 - he never would have become what he is today if he stayed in Montreal. At that time Montreal was being run down by Houle and Tremblay , two guys who couldn't manage or coach a pee wee team.

    PS Montreal can't continue to retire almost everyone's # 's ( # 19, # 29, # 33 # 23 etc ) - pretty soon everyone will be wearing football #'s[/quote:47cd028c76]

    That's my point. He got those records with equipement that was legal THEN but not any longer. It'll be much harder to beat his records now in this league that is goal oriented. That is why when he's compared to the greats before him it's a joke. Those guys played with hardly any equipement and no masks!! How can you compare Roy's achievements with those that stood before pucks with nothing to save their faces!! He played in an era that allowed jerseys that were 6 sizes too big that cought anything shot at the net. Brodeur has a shot and by the time he's done will be greatest of all time. He will do this in an era whose focus is goal scoring. He will also have a Gold medal that Roy never had.

    He became what he is today because he forced the hand and was traded to Colorado where he won with a team that couldn't lose. Are you saying the Av's were NOT capable of winning without him? That's not true. I'd love to see where he'd be if he had been traded to some other team that didn't have the depth or talent the Av's did back then.

    If Gainey, Robinson and other greats STILL haven't been reitred when they bled our colors can you seriously debate that Roy should be among them?? None of the jersys hanging above now or soon to be retired were ever worn by anybody who so disgraced the team by his own selfish ego driven tantrum. He could have taken the abuse, shown remorse for his actions, not reacted and forced a trade but he chose to act in his own interest and ignore the team. He gave the team no choice but to deal him and gave them no leverage to obtain anything at all. When everybody knows your player refuses to play for you, you have no basis for negotiating a deal.

    Alot of people say Roy was proud. What, the Gainey's and Robinson's that took abuse and booing weren't? Did you ever see them react the way Roy did? Every star the Habs ever had was either booed or humiliated, including the Rocket at some point but did you ever see any of them hurt the team the way Roy did? Did you ever see them put themselves AHEAD of the teams best interests? If you want your jersey hanging and retired you need to conduct yourself in a way that befits membership in an exclusive club. Who cares that he won Cups? It's what he is and not his record that gets him in. It's what he brought to this team and in the end that is disgrace. Ultimately, his final regrettable actions that he never apologized for in a meaningful way disallowed him from ever being considered. You are what you do. Little do I care that he won 2 Cups with us.... so did Carbo. Should we hang his jersye up too? Or Breezer? He won one with us. Desjardins? He had a hattrick in '93 and won a game for us in overtime. He retiring so it would be nice to retire his number too just to be nice.

    Roy's actions speak of what he is and he does not deserve to be retired. Maybe in Colorado where they don't have the history we have but not here. Many other greats have to be retired first because of their accomplishments and dedication to the team before Roy can be considered. Even then, he needs to come clean and admit he screwed up big time and make ammends. Then even I'll be OK with it. And that's saying something!!

  5. In the real world you are judged by your actions and Roy reacted like a 5 year old when he was left out to face the Wings for a few too many goals. I have no respect for a guy that allowed his ego to DISRESPECT this franchise, it's fans and the managment that he handcuffed into trading him. I'd have traded him to Timbuktu before moving him to a contender which Colorado already was. Had you left either Thibeault or Fiset in nets that season they would have won the Cup. We gave ROY a Cup by moving him and he gave us the finger on the way out.

    You can say what you want but somebody will come along and blow his records out of the water in a league designed to produce goals. Roy's oversized equipement (now illegal) and the teams defence ahead of him (he always had a good D or offense in Colorado) have led to his status today. Am I saying he wasn't good? Of course not, only an idiot would say Roy wasn't one of the best, I am saying that before we sancify him and turn him into a Saint let's be realisitic. He betrayed this team and the fans by his actions. I'd be OK with that if he ever ONCE apologized or showed remorse for his regrettable actions. his Ego will never allow him to concede that he made a mistake and in his mind...we should apoogize to him for HIS conduct.

    His jersey should never hang from above....it will only diminish the ones that bled for their team....not abandoned it. He should have put the team first and taken the abuse to his Ego and become a legend in this town instead of a tired debate as to his worth. What a wasted opportunity to prove he was the greatest of all time.

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