BigTed3

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About BigTed3

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  1. Tavares is the premiere UFA available this summer, and probably the only game-changer. Tavares and the Isles have been bad of late, but they really lack defence/goaltending. In theory, the Habs feature two players (Weber and Price) at those positions whom Tavares knows well and who could complement him well. The Habs' biggest weakness is top 6 center, so the thought is that the two could be a fit.
  2. I'm in agreement with pretty much everything you said here. On the side deals, it's a bit funny, because we know Gallagher didn't appreciate Subban, and he and Galchenyuk had their commercials/ personalized burgers with McDonal's. Pacioretty also had his commercial with McDonald's, and he campaigned for himself for captain as much as Subban did. No one stopped any of these other players for doing charity work or putting their name and face on a project like Subban did, but there seems to have been some spite, at least on the part of management and perhaps a couple of players, for this reason, which is just petty. And that's what it comes down to: it's other people who are jealous or unaccepting, not the actual guy in question who's causing the problem. I'm relatively sure that PK grew up with Big Karl watching his every move and coaching him on how to act publicly. There's a pretty high likelihood that PK also encountered issues where he was harassed for being black in the hockey world. We know it happened from fans and other players (Mike Richards, I'm looking at you) in the NHL level. We've seen it happen to PK, to Wayne Simmonds, and to other lesser-profile guys too. And you can also see that any time PK gets called a name or insulted, he holds his head high, he moves on, and he's never used the fact that he's black as an excuse or a reason for anything. When Therrien called him out in the media, even though it was clear he was being treated unfairly at times, PK always just answered the questions with "I need to be better" and "I appreciate the feedback" and so on. I think he was simply taught to hold his head high, never make excuses, and be a positive role model. Your point about other players who are allowed to play in the league... Slava Voynov is reportedly going to seek reinstatement and the Kings supposedly want him back. What about Dany Heatley, whose reckless driving killed his teammate and friend? Or Brad Marchand, whose behaviors are disgusting and would get his butt kicked if he tried any of those things without being behind the protection of the NHL rules. Shane Doan and his racist slurs? Even Andrew Shaw and his homophobic ones. The situation is Philadelphia where one player slept with another's wife. That's just the tip of the iceberg. There are tons of questionable personalities and worse in the league, and yet Subban is the guy who's singled out. Again, I think a lot of this comes down to the coach and GM doing everything they can to bring him down and make it acceptable to hate him.
  3. Sure, we could easily bash other trades too. The differences: - You could argue Chelios for Savard was to pick up a different type of player or player of a different position - We won the Cup with Savard, which makes it harder to bash management afterwards. I've always said that if the Habs won a Cup with Weber, we'd have nothing to complain about. - Subban and Weber are still playing. Bergevin is still the GM. So the trade's repercussions are still being felt, and the guy who made the bad decision is still in charge. People will be angry until that is rectified. But yes, the Chelios-Savard trade was bad and the Roy trade was bad and the Langway trade was bad and the Sergachev trade might be bad and the Halak-Price fiasco brought just as much anger and venting at the time... just none of those issues are meeting the criteria I mentioned above, and that's why Subban-Weber remains a thing.
  4. Funny, cause I was thinking about the possibility that the answer was Dougie Hamilton as well. One of the first names that popped into my head. I think the Flames would also love Weber, so it's in the realm of being feasible. Other players I think we could get 1 for 1 for Weber (with us maybe getting more in some of these deals): - Nurse or Klefbom from Edm - Byfuglien or Trouba from Wpg - Dumba from Min - Ellis or Ekholm from Nas - Klingberg from Dal - Keith from Chi - Gardiner from Tor - Ristolainen from Buf - Gostisbehere from Phi None of those guys are really clear-cut #1 D men. Some of them could be top-pairing guys, but I just don't see us getting a guy who's a top 10 D man in the league nor a guy who's a blue chip player with a good shot at being a #1. We're not getting Hedman or Subban or Karlsson or Doughty or Josi or Suter or Pietrangelo or Jones, we're not getting McAvoy or Sergachev or Ekblad or Rielly. I doubt we'd get OEL or Vlasic either. Maybe we'd be able to get a guy like Hanifin or Slavin based on recent reports out of Carolina, but those guys are also far from being a sure thing as #1 guys. Bottom line is that Weber is still good, but with his age and contract, you're not getting a guy who's younger and better back, the way we gave up Subban to grab Shea. To me, this exercise just illustrates further how much of a bad trade we made...
  5. I think we can do better than Klefbom for Weber, but it does bring up an interesting question, so I'll throw it out there: Who does everyone think is the best defenceman we can legitimately acquire in a 1 for 1 trade for Shea Weber this summer?
  6. I'm curious to know, from the people who think we won the trade, what they think we could get for Weber in a trade now? If Weber's value is so high, does anyone think we could trade him for a player like Doughty, Hedman, Seth Jones, or so on? I don't think we'd get a top 10 D man in the league straight up for him...
  7. I think Canadian teams are at a disadvantage because of the cap and tax situation, but not sure I believe the NHL wants Vegas to win the Cup. It would make the entire league look like a sham.
  8. Up until the Subban trade, Bergevin made a lot of dumb mistakes as a GM... Bouillon, Murray, Drewiske, Desharnais extension, etc. But the upside was that most of those mistakes were reversible or short-term. We suffered for them, but after a season or two, we moved on and the effects weren't as pronounced in the long-term (albeit I still believe Mouillon slowed down the development of Beaulieu/Tinordi/Pateryn, for example. With the Subban trade, we gave up one of the most skilled and dominant players in the game, didn't get enough as a return, and shortened our window at the Cup. The repercussions were felt immediately and will last for maybe a decade. If you were a fan of Subban, you understand that we lost a great player. And even if you weren't a fan of Subban, you at least understand that we got older and slower and made that trade turning down other offers that could have set us up beautifully for the future. One rumor was something to the effect of Subban for Draisaitl, RNH, Nurse, and a pick... imagine. Knowing what we know now, despite being a Subban fan, I would make that trade today if we still had PK. The problem is that we got worse in the short-term and made no gains at improving our team in the long run. As for Weber, Price, and Pacioretty, I think all three are still very good players. Pacioretty remains a bargain on his contract, but the problem is that it just isn't realistic or smart to re-sign him to something like a 6-7 year deal for 7-8M a season. With Carey, the contract is bad and the effort hasn't been consistent. I think he can still be a dominant goalie for the next 5 years, but at what cost against the cap? And Weber's contract is the worst of the three, with the threat of a cap recapture penalty if we trade him but a declining asset if we don't. It's lose lose. With where we are now, the main question remains, "are we a legit contender for a Cup in the next 2 seasons?" Unless we can add Tavares and another top 6 center and a 1 LHD, we just aren't. So if that's the case, the right plan becomes finding players who can help you win the Cup in 3 years or 5 years. Price and Pacioretty and Weber aren't going to be central figures in 5 years. Right now, there are still people who think highly of them and who will give us a return in a trade. That might not be true in 2 years. So you need to deal them while they have value and not wait until it's too late.
  9. Agreed on Bergevin. A large part of it is that he's already going into season 7 of his tenure, so to announce he's starting a re-build now means he's going to get 9-10 years in without much to show for his work. That's why it was imperative to have changed GM's. Not sure Carolina will deal Necas, if you read into recent reports of how they see him being a key member of the roster this coming year. But if they do, I'd take him. and if they don't, I'd certainly go hard after Hanifin, Bean, and/or the 2nd overall as part of some type of deal.
  10. So far the coaching moves have all been really positive. I am still very dubious MB can turn this club around without a rebuild or retool but getting a little more optimistic with the off-ice moves so far. The moves seem to be headed in the right direction. I still wonder if Ducharme and Bouchard are the best candidates available or the best Francophone candidates available though, and the Habs have earned that doubt being cast over them. For my part, Bergevin needs to do a lot more than this. Landing Tavares would be great, but more realistically, he has to show more of an appreciation for youth and skill over pluggers and attitude/grit, and his end of year press conference suggests he hasn't learned that lesson yet. I'm still afraid he will trade Galchenyuk for a poor return and that he will try to add veterans rather than dealing the likes of Weber or Price or so on for high picks and NHL-ready prospects. You want a 1C? That's the type of move you need to make.
  11. Unless we add Tavares, I think the Canes are closer than us. Maybe Price would want to move to a team out of the spotlight, and the Canes have an owner who may be a little misguided but certainly seems like he wants to spend and bring in players to win now. Could be worse for Carey. You look at most of the "contending" teams right now, and a lot of them already have goalies: San Jose, Anaheim, LA, Vegas, Nashville (arguably, Rinne might be moved but they seem content Suaros will be good too), Chicago (assuming Crawford is healthy), Toronto, Boston, Washington, Pittsburgh, New Jersey, Tampa, Columbus, etc. Who are the teams with an outside shot at a Cup run who could use a goalie? Edmonton, Calgary, St. Louis, Philadelphia, the Isles, and Carolina... maybe Dallas or Florida want an upgrade. Maybe Buffalo thinks they're going to leapfrog everyone, but probably not for a year or two at least. When you look at that collection of teams, there aren't any teams that you would say are on the verge of winning and just need a goalie. They're all a little bit of a gamble. The question becomes whether Carey is set on keeping his family in Montreal or whether he wants to be closer to home in BC or whether he'll simply go anywhere reasonable to get out of here or to get away from the media frenzy.
  12. More rumors: - Coyotes and OEL apparently in discussions re: an 8-year contract extension, rumored to be in the range of 8M+ per year. If he signs that, it would likely be a framework for a similar contract for John Carlson. - Stl Today write Jeff Gordon speculates that Paul Stastny might be an option for the Blues at center, as might Derick Brassard via trade. He estimates Stastny might be looking for a 3-year deal worth 5M a season, which would likely be too much money for the Jets to afford with all their young stars.
  13. Right. I think MB is more likely to try and acquire a Tavares, Toews, TJ Brodie, Simmonds, RNH, or Brodin and believe he should go all in now with Price and Weber rather than trading those guys before their stock completely plummets. I think he's willing to give up Galchenyuk and Scherbak and prospects and his 2nd round picks. I think he's looking to make a hockey trade for Pacioretty and get a veteran back rather than going after younger players in return. Completely misguided because he has no perspective on how badly he's missed in building this roster.
  14. Shifting the topic for a moment, some more interesting rumors coming out of potential trade partners: - Don Wadell in Carolina gave an interview saying the team hasn't made the playoffs in 9 years and that means that change is needed. He says all players are basically open for discussion but that they're pleased with some of the young guys in their organization, like Aho and also Necas, whom the team believes will make the jump to the NHL next year. He adds that for now, the team is planning on keeping the #2 overall pick and that they think they will have a guy who is also playing in the NHL next season, unless a monster trade offer comes along. What was most interesting is that he commented on the goaltending situation by saying "we can't go into next season with the same two guys we had last year" (referring to Darling and Ward). He said Darling showed up out of shape and never found his form but that they've given him an off-season workout regimen and hop he'll bounce back (which makes it sound more like they plan on retaining him but dumping Ward). He stated the team is primarily looking for goaltending help and that he's let other teams know that he's interested in any guy other teams want to deal who could be a #1 in Carolina... for what it's worth, trading Carey there just seems like such a good fit for both teams. They need a starting goalie, Carey may benefit from a fresh start, and the Habs need young NHL-ready prospects like Svechnikov, Necar, Bean, or Fleury for example to fill multiple holes. - Second, reporter Ryan Rishaug was on radio in Edmonton and suggests the team is ramping up activity to find an upgrade on defence, ideally a RHD. He threw out the possibility of the team dealing Klefbom AND the #10 overall pick to make this happen and wondered about that combination being dealt for a guy like Ristolainen from Buffalo. Now Weber is significantly older than Ristolainen but if you believe the other rumors about Edmonton, they want to win now, so he's still potentially a fit there and he could bring back more than what Ristolainen would in a trade. So again, not unreasonable to think about Weber + a 2nd for 10th overall, Klefbom, and Puljujarvi for example...
  15. There is zero doubt in my mind, zero, that management disliked Subban. Therrien has pretty much flat out said it on television. His actions and those of Bergevin spoke very loudly in that regard. I think that had a lot to do with Subban being traded. There is also strong evidence that many of Subban's teammates liked him. I'll throw this out: for all the people who are married here, how many co-workers of yours did you invite to your wedding that you really hated, that you just couldn't stand? If guys like Markov or Pacioretty despised Subban, why invite him to your wedding but not invite 15-20 other guys from the team? If you really hated someone, why hang out with them outside of work and go to their apartment to hang out and go out for dinner? Why? The argument you guys are making is that all/most of the Habs players hated Subban but were sadistic enough to continue to seek out his company outside the rink when they weren't forced to. That's bizarre. So why wasn't Subban voted for the Clancy here? I don't know. He should have been. But here's a more plausible theory... since MB and MT took over, it was clear there were two young stars (outside of Price, who was ineligible to become captain) who could be seen as leaders of the team: Pacioretty and Subban. The fans loved Subban, Subban loved the camera, and management had a personal vendetta against Subban to put him in his place and take away any sense that there were players who were better-liked than others. The coach even said this when he told Price and Subban to stop doing the triple low-five, stating that he didn't want individualistic celebrations. So if your management, what do you do? You bash Subban every chance you get and you promote the other guy. So after a year or two of your coach and GM telling everyone Subban is trash and Pacioretty is a real leader, then yeah, the vote is going to get swayed somewhat. The vote for captain. The vote for the Clancy. I don't think that means players hated Subban, I just think the notion that Pacioretty was the team's true leader and a great guy were hammered into them by management over and over. I wouldn't be surprised in the least if Bergevin and Therrien actively discouraged players from voting for Subban for captain, maybe not by name, but by saying "we can't have players who put themselves above the team" and "the Habs' identity is to win as a group" and "selfish players are hurting us." All narrative, but if that's how the tale is spun to you, you're going to have some doubts. Maybe you still like Subban at a personal level, but you also don't want to create ruffles with the coach and the GM who decide your fate and the captain who you also like. So tell me, if your boss came along to you and said I really want "Max" to win employee of the year this year, this other guy "PK" is really hurting us because he's not a team player. You can vote for whoever you want, but just remember I decide who gets the year-end bonuses and the best work shifts and so on... you wouldn't be influenced in the least? I put this on management, not on players hating Subban outside of maybe a select 2-3 guys.