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#51 Francis Bouillon 2007-08


jl-1

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Sucks we couldnt see that hit,

All you see is boullion skating away as if nothing happened, and then ward down on the ice, lookng like he was killed.

Brutal

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Guest habs_fan1160

Last night when the hit actually happened, it was pretty obvious it was an accident. They showed it several times and it looked like Bouillon collided with Ward accidently and Ward may have gotten Bouillon's shoulder in his face.

It really didn't look like a devastating hit when it happened, could it have been an attempt for the Bruins to draw a penalty?

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Guest Jesus Price
Last night when the hit actually happened, it was pretty obvious it was an accident. They showed it several times and it looked like Bouillon collided with Ward accidently and Ward may have gotten Bouillon's shoulder in his face.

It really didn't look like a devastating hit when it happened, could it have been an attempt for the Bruins to draw a penalty?

Obviously not. Did you see Ward on the ice ? it was obvious he didn't know what was going on. Ward is not a diver or a faker, and it was quite obvious that he was knocked out. The Bruins had just had a 5-3 for almost a full 2 minutes, why would Ward pretend to lay on the ice out cold. Not to mention the fact that the bench wasnt even looking for a penalty.

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tsn.ca's postgame report is saying that Bouillon elbowed Ward. How can they say that when on the birds eye view camera clearly showed that it was incidental contact between Wards face and Bouillons shoulder pad as Ward was turning.

Good thing they're making Bouillon seem like a dirty player.

Near the top.

http://tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=222486&hubname=

I think that's your Canadiens bias showing... I've seen a couple of highlights of the incident -- including the one I think you are referring to -- and none of them show the contact clearly... in fact, if a person were to make an assumption from the available clips, Bouillon did hit Ward with his elbow, since his arm is raised as he's getting a hold of his stick...

the things that might save Bouillon from a suspension are:

- it appears it was possibly/probably accidental, since Bouillon was not looking at Ward when it happened -- though he definitely knew he was there -- and his elbow was raised because he was getting a hold of his stick... it may have been that Bouillon knew they were going to come into contact and tried to give Ward a shot to take him out of the play and caught him in the head...

- there doesn't appear to be any good video of the actual incident and there was no penalty called on the play...

however, if video surfaces that show Bouillon raising his elbow to target Ward's head, he should get some time off because it'll meet a couple of the supplemental discipline criteria...

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I think that's your Canadiens bias showing... I've seen a couple of highlights of the incident -- including the one I think you are referring to -- and none of them show the contact clearly... in fact, if a person were to make an assumption from the available clips, Bouillon did hit Ward with his elbow, since his arm is raised as he's getting a hold of his stick...

the things that might save Bouillon from a suspension are:

- it appears it was possibly/probably accidental, since Bouillon was not looking at Ward when it happened -- though he definitely knew he was there -- and his elbow was raised because he was getting a hold of his stick... it may have been that Bouillon knew they were going to come into contact and tried to give Ward a shot to take him out of the play and caught him in the head...

- there doesn't appear to be any good video of the actual incident and there was no penalty called on the play...

however, if video surfaces that show Bouillon raising his elbow to target Ward's head, he should get some time off because it'll meet a couple of the supplemental discipline criteria...

TSN showed a clear clip of what happened after Ward was helped off the ice.

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TSN showed a clear clip of what happened after Ward was helped off the ice.
if it's the Boston-end camera that's part of their highlight package, you can't see the actual contact -- it's just out of frame... sportsnet is using the Montreal-corner angle and you can't tell anything from that because it's not a great angle and you can't differentiate between Bouillon's elbow and shoulder -- though if you combine it with the TSN clip, one could make the elbow assumption...

I don't know if there is there better video of the incident... they certainly didn't show it during the telecast if there was... off to check Yahoo Sports video...

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Yahoo has a 4 and a half minute video package of the game and they didn't even mention the play... so I really don't think there is and better video available...

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TSN showed a birds-eye view of the play which shows the whole ice and they showed the Bouillon "hit" with it. It wasn't cut off where it only showed the before and after of it, it showed the actual contact.

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TSN showed a birds-eye view of the play which shows the whole ice and they showed the Bouillon "hit" with it. It wasn't cut off where it only showed the before and after of it, it showed the actual contact.
point me to it, because the only clip I've seen TSN use is from the Boston-end of the ice and the contact is out-of-frame, that means it wasn't in the picture, it's not a matter of 'before and after'...
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Very rough night at the office for the Cube, he was out of position a lot, took a completely unnecessary delay of game penalty, and then of course, the hit to Ward, which wasn't dirty or anything, but which kind of cast a blight on his evening. Let's hope he bounces back against the Sens.

My biggest problem with the "collision" is that even though it doesn't appear an elbow or shoulder is thrown (from TSN's poor camera angle, which puts the players just outside right before the collision), what can be seen is Bouillon making no effort to get skate around Ward; essentially, Bouillon skated right through him, with his head up (so I don't think we can classify it as incidental contact when I'm sure he could see where he was skating).

If this were Ward walking through Bouillon, I'm POSITIVE we'd be hearing a different story on these boards right now.

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point me to it, because the only clip I've seen TSN use is from the Boston-end of the ice and the contact is out-of-frame, that means it wasn't in the picture, it's not a matter of 'before and after'...

How am I supposed to point you to it?

TSN used like 4 different camera angles, 3 of which didn't show the actual contact. The clip that showed the contact must have been from a different source of a camera because it took them a couple minutes to actually show it. And it did infact show the actual contact and it was not out-of-frame.

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Guest hatethoseleafs

Rds showed an overhead distant shot of the play and i replayed it slowly. From what i could make out,,,it appeared that Ward was surprised from Bouillon's presence ( comming out of the box) and almost stumbled forward and actually ran into Soupy's shoulder or elbow area. I certainly didnt see him raise it in an attempt to take the guy out. Soupy was trying to take the shortest route back into the play at the same time Ward was turning. Appeared to be accidental from that shot.

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How am I supposed to point you to it?

TSN used like 4 different camera angles, 3 of which didn't show the actual contact. The clip that showed the contact must have been from a different source of a camera because it took them a couple minutes to actually show it. And it did infact show the actual contact and it was not out-of-frame.

if you believe RDS has access to cameras recording the game -- not for off-ice stuff -- that no one else does then you're mistaken, that's not how TV production works... if you're talking about the video Sportsnet used in their package -- please go to their website and watch it to see if it's the same, it's so big a stretch to claim it shows anything 'clearly' that it's basically an assumption...

hey, if you can direct me to any source of video that shows the hit 'clearly', I'd appreciate it... I watched for it on TSN during the telecast, and during sportscentre and they didn't have any, neither did sportsnet...

the reason I want to see it so badly is you, and others, claim it clearly shows it was Bouillon's shoulder... a writer for the Bruins website claims video clearly shows it was his elbow... at least one side is wrong -- and if there isn't any video of it, then both sides are wrong because nothing is shown 'clearly'...

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Guest hatethoseleafs
if you believe RDS has access to cameras recording the game -- not for off-ice stuff -- that no one else does then you're mistaken, that's not how TV production works... if you're talking about the video Sportsnet used in their package -- please go to their website and watch it to see if it's the same, it's so big a stretch to claim it shows anything 'clearly' that it's basically an assumption...

hey, if you can direct me to any source of video that shows the hit 'clearly', I'd appreciate it... I watched for it on TSN during the telecast, and during sportscentre and they didn't have any, neither did sportsnet...

the reason I want to see it so badly is you, and others, claim it clearly shows it was Bouillon's shoulder... a writer for the Bruins website claims video clearly shows it was his elbow... at least one side is wrong -- and if there isn't any video of it, then both sides are wrong because nothing is shown 'clearly'...

The RDS shot was an overhead distant shot . From that video it did not appear that Soupy made any movement indicating a raising of an elbow but more like Ward stumbling forward into either his shoulder or elbow area.

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if you believe RDS has access to cameras recording the game -- not for off-ice stuff -- that no one else does then you're mistaken, that's not how TV production works... if you're talking about the video Sportsnet used in their package -- please go to their website and watch it to see if it's the same, it's so big a stretch to claim it shows anything 'clearly' that it's basically an assumption...

hey, if you can direct me to any source of video that shows the hit 'clearly', I'd appreciate it... I watched for it on TSN during the telecast, and during sportscentre and they didn't have any, neither did sportsnet...

the reason I want to see it so badly is you, and others, claim it clearly shows it was Bouillon's shoulder... a writer for the Bruins website claims video clearly shows it was his elbow... at least one side is wrong -- and if there isn't any video of it, then both sides are wrong because nothing is shown 'clearly'...

I don't know how many times I have to say this. TSN showed the replay of the contact just after Ward got off the ice. I don't know what else you want me to tell you because there aren't clips of every single incident in hockey on the web. If you can somehow find a copy of the game from TSN then go ahead and watch it.

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Guest hatethoseleafs

I'm not sure how tall Ward is but i would have to assume hes a much taller guy and if that is the case then Bouillon would actually have to raise his elbow quite high to get him there. That fact combined with the video that was seen on RDS would most likely lead to the conclusion that ( because we did not see his arm make any upward motion) Ward was indeed falling forward. Its the only explanation that makes sense.

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I don't know how many times I have to say this. TSN showed the replay of the contact just after Ward got off the ice. I don't know what else you want me to tell you because there aren't clips of every single incident in hockey on the web. If you can somehow find a copy of the game from TSN then go ahead and watch it.
well, you can claim that all you want...

but I watched the game too and I didn't see any footage of the actual contact (except the same footage Sportnet is using)... and common sense is on my side, because if such video existed, how come no one has used it in their game reports either on the web or on TV? and I watched for it... I just find it incredibly improbable that TSN would use footage in their report that didn't show the actual contact if they actually had footage that did...

so until someone can show me footage that shows the incident clearly, everyone's claims -- on both sides of this -- aren't worth very much...

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I'm not sure how tall Ward is but i would have to assume hes a much taller guy and if that is the case then Bouillon would actually have to raise his elbow quite high to get him there. That fact combined with the video that was seen on RDS would most likely lead to the conclusion that ( because we did not see his arm make any upward motion) Ward was indeed falling forward. Its the only explanation that makes sense.
not quite my interpretation... Ward was not 'falling', he was leaning over in a tight turn as he was turning back into the play... Bouillon's right arm was 'up' as he was holding his stick, blade-end up, with his left hand and was reaching for the butt end with his right...

whether he directed or threw his elbow, I can't say until someone can show me video of the contact! :rolleyes:

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Guest hatethoseleafs
not quite my interpretation... Ward was not 'falling', he was leaning over in a tight turn as he was turning back into the play... Bouillon's right arm was 'up' as he was holding his stick, blade-end up, with his left hand and was reaching for the butt end with his right...

whether he directed or threw his elbow, I can't say until someone can show me video of the contact! :rolleyes:

From the overhead shot it did appear that way but i just saw the replay available on the Rds.ca site. They have an ice level replay that shows the actual contact. He appeared to have his arms tucked in from what i saw of the original contact but his arm did go up after the hit ( possibly from the impact). Its still not crystal clear but it is another view. If you havent seen it then go to RDS and watch the video highlights of the game. Hope that helps you make a decision. ;)

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If you havent seen it then go to RDS and watch the video highlights of the game. Hope that helps you make a decision. ;)
that's all I've been asking for, the chance to see which side is 'clearly' wrong ;) ... but, I couldn't find the highlight link on the RDS site, can somebody help with a page/link... I've looked at their Habs page and the scoreboard page for the game, and I couldn't find any video links...
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Guest hatethoseleafs
that's all I've been asking for, the chance to see which side is 'clearly' wrong ;) ... but, I couldn't find the highlight link on the RDS site, can somebody help with a page/link... I've looked at their Habs page and the scoreboard page for the game, and I couldn't find any video links...

Here you go...

http://www.rds.ca/canadien/

Go to the video on the far right and play the ""Kositsyn gagne des points"" link

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found it! it is the SAME video that TSN used except RDS is using the HD version which has a wider frame...

and so I apologize for claiming video of the actual contact may not have existed... however, my point now reverts back to there is no video that shows the contact CLEARLY...

there is no way anyone can claim that video clearly shows Bouillon hit him with his shoulder -- as Habs fans claim -- or his elbow -- as Bruins fans and wire service reports claim... you can't even see Bouillon's shoulder or right elbow in relation to his body... so both sides are wrong for claiming this video 'clearly' supports their side of the issue ;)

and hatethoseleafs, I totally agree that from this video it does not appear that Bouillon had his elbow 'blatantly' up or out from his body even if his arm was raised... but it still leaves open the possibility that he did direct his arm a bit -- since you can't see it before the contact -- while trying to 'pick' Ward...

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Guest hatethoseleafs
and hatethoseleafs, I totally agree that from this video it does not appear that Bouillon had his elbow 'blatantly' up or out from his body even if his arm was raised... but it still leaves open the possibility that he did direct his arm a bit -- since you can't see it before the contact -- while trying to 'pick' Ward...

Its certainly not evidence that i would use to suspend a guy if thats what some are implying. Based on the difference in height from these players, you would assume that to hit a guy in the head with an elbow Soupy would definitely have to raise it pretty high ( unless the guy was really leaning forward or falling in which case it becomes more a situation where the guy runs into your elbow). I didnt see Bouillon make that obvious raising gesture so if i'm the cops reviewing this incident i have to rule innocent.

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Its certainly not evidence that i would use to suspend a guy if thats what some are implying. Based on the difference in height from these players, you would assume that to hit a guy in the head with an elbow Soupy would definitely have to raise it pretty high ( unless the guy was really leaning forward or falling in which case it becomes more a situation where the guy runs into your elbow). I didnt see Bouillon make that obvious raising gesture so if i'm the cops reviewing this incident i have to rule innocent.
I stand by my original post from this afternoon that anyone who claims the video clearly shows one thing or another is showing their bias... the only point I would back away from now is the assumption that Bouillon may have raised/directed his elbow to Ward... if he did do that, it wasn't as obvious/blatant/severe as I had imagined...

and as I also stated, unless someone can come up with much better video than what I've seen, that does show a directed elbow to the head, Bouillon won't get suspended...

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Guest jennifer_rocket
found it! it is the SAME video that TSN used except RDS is using the HD version which has a wider frame...

and so I apologize for claiming video of the actual contact may not have existed... however, my point now reverts back to there is no video that shows the contact CLEARLY...

there is no way anyone can claim that video clearly shows Bouillon hit him with his shoulder -- as Habs fans claim -- or his elbow -- as Bruins fans and wire service reports claim... you can't even see Bouillon's shoulder or right elbow in relation to his body... so both sides are wrong for claiming this video 'clearly' supports their side of the issue ;)

and hatethoseleafs, I totally agree that from this video it does not appear that Bouillon had his elbow 'blatantly' up or out from his body even if his arm was raised... but it still leaves open the possibility that he did direct his arm a bit -- since you can't see it before the contact -- while trying to 'pick' Ward...

I was watching the game and clearly saw Ward unknowingly run into Bouillon as Bouillon was jumping into the play. This was on a replay that RDS showed once, as far as I can remember. It looked 100 % accidental. That's just my two cents, but I certainly don't see how it could've been considered an elbow, and I don't even see how anyone can claim it was intentional. Ward wasn't watching where he was going and Bouillon was watching the play as he was jumping into it.

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