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Guy Carbonneau


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I hear ya, but sometimes you have to go with your gut.

Actually i think it was a pretty tough night to pick 3 shooters !!!

Although I would have started with Andrei myself.

I don't know that how a player did in the game really reflects how they can do on a single breakaway. I'm not a big fan of when he puts out a player just because he had a good game (Lang tonight), I mean this isn't preseason: 2 points were potentially on the line (Buffalo being in our division), I think you have to go with you're 3 best snipers, even if they had an awful game. Lang just seemed like an odd choice to me. Not that it much mattered, Price let in 2 of 2 goals and Koivu (who is one of our shootout snipers) missed his shot. It's unlikely other choices would have made a difference tonight.

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I don't know that how a player did in the game really reflects how they can do on a single breakaway. I'm not a big fan of when he puts out a player just because he had a good game (Lang tonight), I mean this isn't preseason: 2 points were potentially on the line (Buffalo being in our division), I think you have to go with you're 3 best snipers, even if they had an awful game. Lang just seemed like an odd choice to me. Not that it much mattered, Price let in 2 of 2 goals and Koivu (who is one of our shootout snipers) missed his shot. It's unlikely other choices would have made a difference tonight.

If a player doesn't have "it" for 60 minutes, will he have "it" for a shot ?

I understand what you are saying, but I think you could have let Kovalev take all three shots and still lost tonight.

Not picking on Kovy here, he was just off tonight. Sometimes a player just does not have it, do you still let him take a shot ?

Tough decision.

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If a player doesn't have "it" for 60 minutes, will he have "it" for a shot ?

I understand what you are saying, but I think you could have let Kovalev take all three shots and still lost tonight.

Not picking on Kovy here, he was just off tonight. Sometimes a player just does not have it, do you still let him take a shot ?

Tough decision.

Well actually Kovalev has been surprisingly poor in shootouts, as Wayne's stats show. I mean with what i was saying, Carbo agrees with me to a point: he put Koivu out even after a poor game. But he does have a tendency to reward players for a good game (he did it with Lang tonight), and I'm not sure if that's the best strategy. Not that Lang's a horrible choice or anything, just not the direction I would have gone in.

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Well actually Kovalev has been surprisingly poor in shootouts, as Wayne's stats show. I mean with what i was saying, Carbo agrees with me to a point: he put Koivu out even after a poor game. But he does have a tendency to reward players for a good game (he did it with Lang tonight), and I'm not sure if that's the best strategy. Not that Lang's a horrible choice or anything, just not the direction I would have gone in.

I just think sometimes you have to go with your gut....depends on the situation I suppose.

About the numbers Wayne gave- does anyone else think they may be wrong ?

I can't remember but I swear I remember Kovy scoring more than 1 shoot out goal last season ????

Maybe I'm just bunching the seasons all together in my memory....I am getting older !!!!

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I just think sometimes you have to go with your gut....depends on the situation I suppose.

About the numbers Wayne gave- does anyone else think they may be wrong ?

I can't remember but I swear I remember Kovy scoring more than 1 shoot out goal last season ????

Maybe I'm just bunching the seasons all together in my memory....I am getting older !!!!

I've always had a hard time being critical of shootout decisions because I know teams practice them basically everyday at the end of practice, and that probably gives the coaching staff a better idea of who's good in it and who's not then actual game play.

I think Saku and Koivu are automatics, and one should shoot 1 and the other 3 probably, and then maybe have a few guys on a short list for 2 (Kostitsyns, Plekanec, Lang ect).

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2007-08

Ovechkin 65 G, 1 for 6 in SO

Malkin 47 G, 0 for 5 in SO

Heatley 41 G, 0 for 4 in SO

Vanek 36 G, 1 for 6 in SO

Plekanec 29 G, 0 for 4 in SO

Dumont 29 G, 0 for 4 in SO

2006-07

Lecavalier 52 G, 3 for 12 in SO

Heatley 50 G, 1 for 4 in SO

Ovechkin 46 G, 2 for 12 in SO

Vanek 43 G, 2 for 11 in SO

Malkin 33 G, 3 for 12 in SO

2005-06

Heatley 50 G, 2 for 8 in SO

Ovechkin 52 G, 6 for 13 in SO

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I just think sometimes you have to go with your gut....depends on the situation I suppose.

About the numbers Wayne gave- does anyone else think they may be wrong ?

I can't remember but I swear I remember Kovy scoring more than 1 shoot out goal last season ????

Maybe I'm just bunching the seasons all together in my memory....I am getting older !!!!

I can't verify it was only 1, but I know last year I was shocked that Koivu was so good in shootouts and Kovalev was so bad.

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I just think sometimes you have to go with your gut....depends on the situation I suppose.

About the numbers Wayne gave- does anyone else think they may be wrong ?

I can't remember but I swear I remember Kovy scoring more than 1 shoot out goal last season ????

Maybe I'm just bunching the seasons all together in my memory....I am getting older !!!!

Wayne is right about Kovalev. He scored 1 goal on 7 shootout attempts last year, while Koivu had 5 in 11 attempts. Here are Montreal's shootout stats from last year.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/app

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I just think sometimes you have to go with your gut....depends on the situation I suppose.

About the numbers Wayne gave- does anyone else think they may be wrong ?

I can't remember but I swear I remember Kovy scoring more than 1 shoot out goal last season ????

Maybe I'm just bunching the seasons all together in my memory....I am getting older !!!!

The link in my previous post does not bring you right to the stats, but they are available on nhl.com. Wayne is right about Kovalev. He scored 1 goal on 7 shootout attempts last year, while Koivu had 5 in 11 attempts. Here are Montreal's shootout stats from last year.

Koivu - 5 goals on 11 attempts

Andrei Kostitsyn - 2 goals on 6 attempts

Markov - 1 goal on 2 attempts

Kovalev - 1 goal on 7 attempts

Sergei Kostitsyn - 0 goals on 1 attempt

Higgins - 0 for 3

Plekanec - 0 for 4

Lang was 1 for 2, and Tanguay was 0 for 2 last year, so Tanguay has already proven his worth on the shootout this year.

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The way the team played last night, it wouldn't have mattered who went in the shootout. We were lucky to get 1 point in the loss.
Does Guy Carbonneau get off the hook for the team's performance? The forecheck disappeared and the infamous 1-2-2 raised its ugly head again. Who is really responsible for the team taking the foot off the gas pedal?
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Does Guy Carbonneau get off the hook for the team's performance? The forecheck disappeared and the infamous 1-2-2 raised its ugly head again. Who is really responsible for the team taking the foot off the gas pedal?

it wasnt so much that they were sitting back but after the 1st man they just lost all cohesion and couldnt complete a pass let alone consecutive passes

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Does Guy Carbonneau get off the hook for the team's performance? The forecheck disappeared and the infamous 1-2-2 raised its ugly head again. Who is really responsible for the team taking the foot off the gas pedal?

I don't think he's off the hook. But so much of the problem during the Buffalo game was a lackluster effort by the players. They weren't skating, hitting, or winning the board battles, and that isn't a scheme problem, that's an effort problem. They just didn't seem like their minds were on the game. And the 1-2-2 is not evil in and of itself provided the players actually play HARD and clog up the neutral zone like they're supposed to do. When we're passive, that's when the trouble starts.

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I don't think he's off the hook. But so much of the problem during the Buffalo game was a lackluster effort by the players. They weren't skating, hitting, or winning the board battles, and that isn't a scheme problem, that's an effort problem. They just didn't seem like their minds were on the game. And the 1-2-2 is not evil in and of itself provided the players actually play HARD and clog up the neutral zone like they're supposed to do. When we're passive, that's when the trouble starts.
I hear what you're saying and to a degree would agree... however, as some in the media have suggested (and self included as a fan). the players don't exactly like to play that way... specifically when you have been successful pressuring with a more forceful forecheck while using speed and skill on the attack. It kind-of is like asking players to change the way the party is going when you're having so much fun with your best moves... and then to dance a slow dance. People sit down and (players stop skating).

My two cents :D

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I hear what you're saying and to a degree would agree... however, as some in the media have suggested (and self included as a fan). the players don't exactly like to play that way... specifically when you have been successful pressuring with a more forceful forecheck while using speed and skill on the attack. It kind-of is like asking players to change the way the party is going when you're having so much fun with your best moves... and then to dance a slow dance. People sit down and (players stop skating).

My two cents :D

The players don't like playing that way, when you are having so much fun.....????

If they want to have fun they should try winning, it is always fun !!!

If you need to trap to win a game you compete your rear end off and trap like the dickens.

Two points is the objective here, fun is a by product of reaching that goal.

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The players don't like playing that way, when you are having so much fun.....????

If they want to have fun they should try winning, it is always fun !!!

If you need to trap to win a game you compete your rear end off and trap like the dickens.

Two points is the objective here, fun is a by product of reaching that goal.

:lol:

If you're having fun pressuring with a strong forecheck, keeping the other team on their collective heels while scoring goals then why change it and play a 1-2-2 trap?

Killer instinct is so much more fun. :D

On the up-coming game... it will be interesting to see just how long Carbs sticks with Lats playing with Koivu and Tanguay before he makes the switch to Higgins.

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I'm glad Carbo is keeping the current second line together and giving Higgins a chance to find his game on the third line. Saku's line has put up the most points through four games; ride that productivity as long as you can. And Higgins's two-way skill makes that third line very, very versatile.

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I love how far Carbo has come as a coach, but he's got to get it through his head that robotically rolling four lines when we're at home and have the last change is really not good coaching. The one goal Phoenix scored tonight came from one of their top players (Doan) while our five lowest-tier players were out on the ice (Lapierre, Dandenault, Laraque, Gorges, and O'Byrne). And this wasn't the only time it happened. Our fourth line got caught out against Jokinen a few times. We were lucky it didn't cost us, but that's more because Phoenix isn't a contending team yet. An upper-tier conference opponent is going to slice and dice us if Carbo keeps sending out our lower-tier players just because it's their turn in the shift order, regardless of who might be on the ice.

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I love how far Carbo has come as a coach, but he's got to get it through his head that robotically rolling four lines when we're at home and have the last change is really not good coaching. The one goal Phoenix scored tonight came from one of their top players (Doan) while our five lowest-tier players were out on the ice (Lapierre, Dandenault, Laraque, Gorges, and O'Byrne). And this wasn't the only time it happened. Our fourth line got caught out against Jokinen a few times. We were lucky it didn't cost us, but that's more because Phoenix isn't a contending team yet. An upper-tier conference opponent is going to slice and dice us if Carbo keeps sending out our lower-tier players just because it's their turn in the shift order, regardless of who might be on the ice.

This is the type of game you roll four lines in.

As long as we work hard Pheonix is no challenge for us.

You roll the lines to get everyone playing time, and get the fourth liners experience in different situations.

We gave up a goal, not a problem, the experience and ice time will payoff down the road.

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This is the type of game you roll four lines in.

As long as we work hard Pheonix is no challenge for us.

You roll the lines to get everyone playing time, and get the fourth liners experience in different situations.

We gave up a goal, not a problem, the experience and ice time will payoff down the road.

I agree 100%. well put

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