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Guy Carbonneau


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This is the type of game you roll four lines in.

As long as we work hard Pheonix is no challenge for us.

You roll the lines to get everyone playing time, and get the fourth liners experience in different situations.

We gave up a goal, not a problem, the experience and ice time will payoff down the road.

You don't roll four lines to give people experience. You roll four lines to win games. We're trying to win a Cup this year, not develop prospects. And my point is that Carbo does this robotic line-rolling regardless of who we're facing. Against weaker teams like Phoenix, we can get away with it. Against contenders, we will get burned. He got thoroughly outcoached by Stevens in the Philly series and failure to match lines even when at home was a significant part of it.

Unless Carbo has some sort of fountain of wisdom no other coach in the league has access to, you'll never convince me this is good strategy. Every good coach knows that you don't throw out your fourth line and third D pairing against the other team's top players, particularly when playing at home where you have the last line change. If Carbo is just going to roll four lines without caring about who they'll be facing on the ice, why is he even behind the bench during games? That's not coaching, that's something anyone could do with the line sequences written down. I'm not slagging Carbo, because I think he is a good coach in many other areas, but one of his weaknesses IMO is his stubbornness, which manifests in a rigidity and refusal to deviate from his 'script' in response to what's actually transpiring on the ground.

Point blank: I do not want to see our weakest or most inexperienced players all out at the same time against the Sidney Crosbys of the league, or even the Shane Doans of the league, because in most situations, all it does is lead to a goal against or a quality scoring chance.

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You don't roll four lines to give people experience. You roll four lines to win games. We're trying to win a Cup this year, not develop prospects. And my point is that Carbo does this robotic line-rolling regardless of who we're facing. Against weaker teams like Phoenix, we can get away with it. Against contenders, we will get burned. He got thoroughly outcoached by Stevens in the Philly series and failure to match lines even when at home was a significant part of it.

Unless Carbo has some sort of fountain of wisdom no other coach in the league has access to, you'll never convince me this is good strategy. Every good coach knows that you don't throw out your fourth line and third D pairing against the other team's top players, particularly when playing at home where you have the last line change. If Carbo is just going to roll four lines without caring about who they'll be facing on the ice, why is he even behind the bench during games? That's not coaching, that's something anyone could do with the line sequences written down. I'm not slagging Carbo, because I think he is a good coach in many other areas, but one of his weaknesses IMO is his stubbornness, which manifests in a rigidity and refusal to deviate from his 'script' in response to what's actually transpiring on the ground.

Point blank: I do not want to see our weakest or most inexperienced players all out at the same time against the Sidney Crosbys of the league, or even the Shane Doans of the league, because in most situations, all it does is lead to a goal against or a quality scoring chance.

As you can see we take alot of penalties, or draw alot of penalties which screws up our top lines.

As you can see, injuries can occur within games. You also are probably aware that any number of weird and wonderful things can happen during a hockey game. Why would you not take every opportunity to prepare your guys for these eventualities? Or would you rather they learn in the seventh game of the Stanley Cup Finals when those strange events rear their ugly heads ?

Coaching is all about preparing your team to meet any challenge that may come up.

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Carbo still has a lot to prove to me, and his robotic rolling of the lines, as weep put it, is certainly worth a look.

However, I am much more concerned with our pattern of inconsistency, which is not any better yet this year than previous years. In fact, it's worse this season, but since the season is still young, I'll give him some slack. You know the kind of inconsistency I'm talking about.....20 minutes of inspired hockey, followed by 40 minutes of what could only be called a complete reversal and departure from what got us a good lead. Then it's one good game followed by two lackluster games, playing poorly to weaker teams, playing worse with rest than a team with no rest, etc. etc. I know we're 5-0-1 at the moment, but last year we were the conference champs and what did that get us in the playoffs?

Our last game against the Panthers was, in my opinion, the worst effort I have seen in years.....many years. I honestly cannot remember a game where we gave away the puck so often, were so soft in our own zone, and passed to nowhere or right to the opposition so much. There's no question Carbo sees this. The problem is, he has seen it for two full seasons and into his third, and I see no solution coming from him. Who knows...it might even be part of his strategy.

There's lots of Carbo supporters here who unrealistically expect him to get all the credit if we win, but take no responsibility if we lose. Sorry, you can't have it both ways. Either the players win or lose based on their effort, or the coach is responsible. My belief, based on the incredible achievements of so many great coaches, is that it is almost 100% the coach's doing. Just look at Herb Brooks or Scotty Bowman for two good examples. If Brooks could take a bunch of college kids and beat a team that no professional NHL or other National team beat in nearly 20 years, and if Bowman can turn any franchise into a Cup contender, then Carbo should be able to do it, too. We certainly have had the talent.

I watched Bowman coaching the Red Wings for all those dynasty years, and when they did lose, they never looked as embarassing as we have for so many years. They skated well and went down like fighters....not melting down like we regularly do. I have not been satisfied with our effort in any postseason since our last Cup run, and for me, last season was the worst. I expected a lot more from a conference champion....I don't care what the so-called "experts" predicted. They were wrong, anyway, about our regular season, so why should we listen to them?

I sure hope Carbo has it on his list to try new things to get the boys to skate like professionals for 60 minutes a game, EVERY GAME. Anything less is a recipe for a repeat performance of disappointment and frustrtation. And this franchise, quite frankly, does not deserve any more of that.

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Carbo still has a lot to prove to me, and his robotic rolling of the lines, as weep put it, is certainly worth a look.

However, I am much more concerned with our pattern of inconsistency, which is not any better yet this year than previous years. In fact, it's worse this season, but since the season is still young, I'll give him some slack. You know the kind of inconsistency I'm talking about.....20 minutes of inspired hockey, followed by 40 minutes of what could only be called a complete reversal and departure from what got us a good lead. Then it's one good game followed by two lackluster games, playing poorly to weaker teams, playing worse with rest than a team with no rest, etc. etc. I know we're 5-0-1 at the moment, but last year we were the conference champs and what did that get us in the playoffs?

Our last game against the Panthers was, in my opinion, the worst effort I have seen in years.....many years. I honestly cannot remember a game where we gave away the puck so often, were so soft in our own zone, and passed to nowhere or right to the opposition so much. There's no question Carbo sees this. The problem is, he has seen it for two full seasons and into his third, and I see no solution coming from him. Who knows...it might even be part of his strategy.

There's lots of Carbo supporters here who unrealistically expect him to get all the credit if we win, but take no responsibility if we lose. Sorry, you can't have it both ways. Either the players win or lose based on their effor.t, or the coach is responsible. My belief, based on the incredible achievements of so many great coaches, is that it is almost 100% the coach's doing. Just look at Herb Brooks or Scotty Bowman for two good examples. If Brooks could take a bunch of college kids and beat a team that no professional NHL or other National team beat in nearly 20 years, and if Bowman can turn any franchise into a Cup contender, then Carbo should be able to do it, too. We certainly have had the talent.

I watched Bowman coaching the Red Wings for all those dynasty years, and when they did lose, they never looked as embarassing as we have for so many years. They skated well and went down like fighters....not melting down like we regularly do. I have not been satisfied with our effort in any postseason since our last Cup run, and for me, last season was the worst. I expected a lot more from a conference champion....I don't care what the so-called "experts" predicted. They were wrong, anyway, about our regular season, so why should we listen to them?

I sure hope Carbo has it on his list to try new things to get the boys to skate like professionals for 60 minutes a game, EVERY GAME. Anything less is a recipe for a repeat performance of disappointment and frustrtation. yAnd this franchise, quite frankly, does not deserve any more of that.

Post season teams since 1993 with the exception of last year have been anemic those early exits were expected, Guys biggest challenge right now is to find a system of how to get the puck out of our d zone safely. There is alot of confusion in that area and it needs a ton of work

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This is the first game I question some of his moves with the lines. He took Lats off the Koivu line and put him with the Pleks unit on the PP and moved Higgens over to that unit. The biggest thing I didn't like was late in the game he took a timeout (which is good), but then he didn't put all of his top players on the ice for the PP even though the Habs needed a goal. With one minute left in the game again he didn't put his best players on the ice. I don't mind losing, but I'd prefer to lose with the best offensive players out there. To me that would be Lang/Koivu/Kovalev/Tanguay/Markov and an extra skater. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like one of those no brainer type of moves.

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This is the first game I question some of his moves with the lines. He took Lats off the Koivu line and put him with the Pleks unit on the PP and moved Higgens over to that unit. The biggest thing I didn't like was late in the game he took a timeout (which is good), but then he didn't put all of his top players on the ice for the PP even though the Habs needed a goal. With one minute left in the game again he didn't put his best players on the ice. I don't mind losing, but I'd prefer to lose with the best offensive players out there. To me that would be Lang/Koivu/Kovalev/Tanguay/Markov and an extra skater. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like one of those no brainer type of moves.

Tonight was a little odd. I know he has those line combinations he likes, and Koivu-Higgins is one of them, but just coming back from an injury, I didn't really like seeing him taking a central role out there, especially when it involved a partial break of the best line this season.

didnt agree with his decision to pull price late in the game, because i feel that when you play a sloppy game you dont deserve to have an extra attacker it sends a message

Okay this I can't agree with. Points are points, you do what you have to do to win, not try to send a message. In fact, I would have pulled him earlier if anything since we needed the two goals (not that it would have made much difference).

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I think Carbo has to do a better job of getting the team energy level up after a long break. We came out pretty strong to start the season because everybody wants to play hockey again but half we through the season, our team seems to come out weak after a long period of rest, today's game was an example of that.

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Tonight was a little odd. I know he has those line combinations he likes, and Koivu-Higgins is one of them, but just coming back from an injury, I didn't really like seeing him taking a central role out there, especially when it involved a partial break of the best line this season.

Okay this I can't agree with. Points are points, you do what you have to do to win, not try to send a message. In fact, I would have pulled him earlier if anything since we needed the two goals (not that it would have made much difference).

Yet, Koivu scored on a beautiful pass from... you guessed it, Higgins. And Higgins got a partial breakaway on a beautiful feed by... once again, Koivu!

Those two will be reunited very soon, I have no doubt. They've been playing together for 3 years and have had success together. Latendresse will find himself on Lang's line, where he was supposed to start anyway. When Kostitsyn is back, we'll finally have our 3 offensive lines.

EDIT: Reading all those posts, one loss and Carbo is taking all the wrong decisions. :D

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Tonight was a little odd. I know he has those line combinations he likes, and Koivu-Higgins is one of them, but just coming back from an injury, I didn't really like seeing him taking a central role out there, especially when it involved a partial break of the best line this season.

Okay this I can't agree with. Points are points, you do what you have to do to win, not try to send a message. In fact, I would have pulled him earlier if anything since we needed the two goals (not that it would have made much difference).

if your down a goal yes obviously you pull the guy, but when your down 2 with 60secs left and the overall effort wasnt great he shouldnt have pulled em

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Yet, Koivu scored on a beautiful pass from... you guessed it, Higgins. And Higgins got a partial breakaway on a beautiful feed by... once again, Koivu!

Those two will be reunited very soon, I have no doubt. They've been playing together for 3 years and have had success together. Latendresse will find himself on Lang's line, where he was supposed to start anyway. When Kostitsyn is back, we'll finally have our 3 offensive lines.

Well Higgins helped us get a goal, but was also responsible for one against. And had someone who could actually shoot the puck at the net been in there, maybe we would have scored on one of the many shots Higgins fanned on or just missed, maybe we wouldn't have wasted the powerplay time we were in our own zone because Higgins cleared it out of Anaheim's zone from horribly missing the net.

And I really hope he isn't put back with Koivu, I think Latendresse's size has been a huge part of that line's success. Also, I truly believe Higgins has reached his ceiling, and I don't consider him a natural goal scorer. he almost hit 30 goals last season because he had a lot of shots, but his shot percentage wasn't very good (in fact, Lats was better). I've been somewhat critical of Lats, but if he can get his game together, which it seems he's starting to do, he has much more potential than Higgins.

I know Koivu-Higgins has worked decent in the past, but I think we (and Guy) need to be flexible: the success of Lats-Koivu-Tanguay speaks for itself. And that's the one remaining criticism I have of Guy, he has improve immensely since his rookie season, but he can be stubborn and some increased flexibility wouldn't hurt.

if your down a goal yes obviously you pull the guy, but when your down 2 with 60secs left and the overall effort wasnt great he shouldnt have pulled em

Why? It gave us a shot at 1, maybe 2 points. That shot wasn't good, but you need to take it.

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Once again, the line rolling and refusing to match lines has to stop at home. There is no reason or excuse for having out 5 worst out against their 5 best on many, many occasions while at home. Tonight it usually cost us a penalty or worse, a goal against.

And at this point, moving Lats in favour of Higgins would be a mistake. That line is producing and Higgins' current state of cement hands certainly won't improve things.

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Once again, the line rolling and refusing to match lines has to stop at home. There is no reason or excuse for having out 5 worst out against their 5 best on many, many occasions while at home. Tonight it usually cost us a penalty or worse, a goal against.

And at this point, moving Lats in favour of Higgins would be a mistake. That line is producing and Higgins' current state of cement hands certainly won't improve things.

:lol: That was one game, his first game back! It's actually amazing that he's created so many chances for himself when he hasn't played a game yet! He still scored 27 goals last year, let's not forget!

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:lol: That was one game, his first game back! It's actually amazing that he's created so many chances for himself when he hasn't played a game yet! He still scored 27 goals last year, let's not forget!

True, it was his first game back. I'm not passing judgment on Higgins. It's far too early. That being said, we watched him squander chance after chance far too often in the Philly series last spring not to be mildly alarmed at a seeming repeat of that last night.

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True, it was his first game back. I'm not passing judgment on Higgins. It's far too early. That being said, we watched him squander chance after chance far too often in the Philly series last spring not to be mildly alarmed at a seeming repeat of that last night.

Absolutely and that's the reason why I've been pushing or a sniper, sacrificing Higgins in the trade.

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True, it was his first game back. I'm not passing judgment on Higgins. It's far too early. That being said, we watched him squander chance after chance far too often in the Philly series last spring not to be mildly alarmed at a seeming repeat of that last night.

The whole team missed chance after chance in that series.

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The whole team missed chance after chance in that series.

The stats don't actually bear that statement out. Sure, we missed chances as a team, but guys like Higgins and Plekanec were the ones who really failed to perform. But that's okay, that's the past. This is a new season. :)

As for Carbo, I really hope he stresses defensive awareness and responsibility this week in practice. I can't remember the last time we gave up so many odd-man rushes with our forwards caught deep in the zone. Our players have to understand that when the forwards are deep, getting the puck in deep is mandatory. None of this prettily feathering passes into the high slot or across the blue line, it's just asking for trouble. We are a skilled team, no doubt, but we have to play better north-south hockey.

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The stats don't actually bear that statement out. Sure, we missed chances as a team, but guys like Higgins and Plekanec were the ones who really failed to perform. But that's okay, that's the past. This is a new season. :)

As for Carbo, I really hope he stresses defensive awareness and responsibility this week in practice. I can't remember the last time we gave up so many odd-man rushes with our forwards caught deep in the zone. Our players have to understand that when the forwards are deep, getting the puck in deep is mandatory. None of this prettily feathering passes into the high slot or across the blue line, it's just asking for trouble. We are a skilled team, no doubt, but we have to play better north-south hockey.

quick to point but thats okay, down a goal in the third #84 took a lazy hooking penalty that cost us a goal when we were down one: its the past though

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The Ducks game was interesting. Lots and lots of easy shots into the pads of Giguere on purpose. Nice that the players listened to the coach and took lots and lots easy shots at Giguere. However they forgot TWO things: The Ducks defence was ready and able to clear most of the big rebounds. And Giguere rarely had to stop difficult shots or high shots because of the game plan. The game plan should have changed when it clearly was not working.

No checking line. hmmm. I guess the Pens are looking forward to this. Our 4th line out against the Ducks 1st line. I guess that Heatley will love this.

Montreal was well rested. There should have be very limited ice time for the 4th line and 3rd D pairing. However Carbo rolled the lines. IMO this was a huge mistake. The top players were well rested and should have been able to take the game to the Ducks with speed and skill. However, the 4th line and 3rd D kept giving up momentum or worse (penalties or goals against).

The Ducks, Red Wings, Sharks, Pens, and Rangers. These are probably the teams to beat if Montreal is going to be an elite team. The Ducks showed a lot of flaws but the good news is that Carbo should learn from the poor game more then if Montreal had won the game.

Issues that I see:

1) Why is Carbo playing the 4th line when he should play the top line so they can get themselves going?

2) The PP needs a player to blast shots on at least one of the PP units. Markov needs to be on the left point. It is time that Weber get a chance in Montreal.

3) Against a couple of teams there HAS to be a checking line. Against the Ducks it appeared that Carbo was assuming that the 4th line was it and it clearly is not a checking line. No matchup.

4) Bigger players need to play against bigger teams like the Ducks. Why was OB benched?

5) Lapierre is over matched against other top lines. Chips should be in Montreal as his skill level is far higher and his ability to retrieve the puck is far better. Lapierre can still play in Montreal as other marginal UFA players need to go.

How many games until Weber or Patches or D'Agostini get called to Montreal? Begin, Bouillon, Brisebois, and Lapierre are not able to handle top teams like the Ducks.

The good news is that Montreal is a good team. A lot of teams in the East are worse. And every team has a bad game. Let's replace some marginal players with better rookies so the team is ready for the Ducks / Red Wings / Sharks in the Cup finals.

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Well Higgins helped us get a goal, but was also responsible for one against. And had someone who could actually shoot the puck at the net been in there, maybe we would have scored on one of the many shots Higgins fanned on or just missed, maybe we wouldn't have wasted the powerplay time we were in our own zone because Higgins cleared it out of Anaheim's zone from horribly missing the net.

And I really hope he isn't put back with Koivu, I think Latendresse's size has been a huge part of that line's success. Also, I truly believe Higgins has reached his ceiling, and I don't consider him a natural goal scorer. he almost hit 30 goals last season because he had a lot of shots, but his shot percentage wasn't very good (in fact, Lats was better). I've been somewhat critical of Lats, but if he can get his game together, which it seems he's starting to do, he has much more potential than Higgins.

I know Koivu-Higgins has worked decent in the past, but I think we (and Guy) need to be flexible: the success of Lats-Koivu-Tanguay speaks for itself. And that's the one remaining criticism I have of Guy, he has improve immensely since his rookie season, but he can be stubborn and some increased flexibility wouldn't hurt.

Why? It gave us a shot at 1, maybe 2 points. That shot wasn't good, but you need to take it.

why, because once again we didnt deserve to have an extra man on

The stats don't actually bear that statement out. Sure, we missed chances as a team, but guys like Higgins and Plekanec were the ones who really failed to perform. But that's okay, that's the past. This is a new season. :)

As for Carbo, I really hope he stresses defensive awareness and responsibility this week in practice. I can't remember the last time we gave up so many odd-man rushes with our forwards caught deep in the zone. Our players have to understand that when the forwards are deep, getting the puck in deep is mandatory. None of this prettily feathering passes into the high slot or across the blue line, it's just asking for trouble. We are a skilled team, no doubt, but we have to play better north-south hockey.

we got a lesson from a big west team plain and simple

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The Ducks game was interesting. Lots and lots of easy shots into the pads of Giguere on purpose. Nice that the players listened to the coach and took lots and lots easy shots at Giguere. However they forgot TWO things: The Ducks defence was ready and able to clear most of the big rebounds. And Giguere rarely had to stop difficult shots or high shots because of the game plan. The game plan should have changed when it clearly was not working.

No checking line. hmmm. I guess the Pens are looking forward to this. Our 4th line out against the Ducks 1st line. I guess that Heatley will love this.

Montreal was well rested. There should have be very limited ice time for the 4th line and 3rd D pairing. However Carbo rolled the lines. IMO this was a huge mistake. The top players were well rested and should have been able to take the game to the Ducks with speed and skill. However, the 4th line and 3rd D kept giving up momentum or worse (penalties or goals against).

The Ducks, Red Wings, Sharks, Pens, and Rangers. These are probably the teams to beat if Montreal is going to be an elite team. The Ducks showed a lot of flaws but the good news is that Carbo should learn from the poor game more then if Montreal had won the game.

Issues that I see:

1) Why is Carbo playing the 4th line when he should play the top line so they can get themselves going?

2) The PP needs a player to blast shots on at least one of the PP units. Markov needs to be on the left point. It is time that Weber get a chance in Montreal.

3) Against a couple of teams there HAS to be a checking line. Against the Ducks it appeared that Carbo was assuming that the 4th line was it and it clearly is not a checking line. No matchup.

4) Bigger players need to play against bigger teams like the Ducks. Why was OB benched?

5) Lapierre is over matched against other top lines. Chips should be in Montreal as his skill level is far higher and his ability to retrieve the puck is far better. Lapierre can still play in Montreal as other marginal UFA players need to go.

How many games until Weber or Patches or D'Agostini get called to Montreal? Begin, Bouillon, Brisebois, and Lapierre are not able to handle top teams like the Ducks.

The good news is that Montreal is a good team. A lot of teams in the East are worse. And every team has a bad game. Let's replace some marginal players with better rookies so the team is ready for the Ducks / Red Wings / Sharks in the Cup finals.

call in whoever you want, if they aren't any bigger than what we had on saturday forget it

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