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Guy Carbonneau


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Well not to take anything away from him, because whatever he said to the team obviously got them motivated, so good job on that.

But ... Julien and Therien never had the talent avoid slumps the way this team does. While I'm not a big fan of Therien, I think Julien is an excellent coach and remember that he managed to get Boston to almost pull off a big upset against us last playoffs: they were down and he got them going and almost pulled off a big upset.

yes i agree about the talent level on those past teams but im talking about the work ethic coming off losses, those teams would just play like patsys for 5 games straight before they would start working again. with Guy after a loss the team comes out eating the next game

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Honestly Weep, we have a pretty darn good record, and the team has not even played to it's capabilities yet.....how much of a mistake can he be making ? There are times I disagree with the choices and decisions he makes, my problem is looking for things to complain about. For a team at this stage in the process , yes they are still learning how to be winners at this stage, they are doing just fine imho, not to much need for Carbo to change much.

Seeing our most undeveloped dman out against other teams top players isn't exactly "looking for things to complain about", and when Carbo apparantly admitted (going from what was said above) that he doesn't bother matching lines is concerning (I had just thought he wasn't any good at it, but turns out he doesn't even try).

And our record is good so far, and with our talent it should be. But in the playoffs is when little things start to make a big difference. We aren't going to be getting 4 or 5 goals a game in the playoffs, so getting scored on because we have O'Byrne covering Ovechkin instead of Komisarek becomes a big deal. In the regular season there is a certain level of stuff the players and coach can get away with (with our talent level especially), but it will be an early exit from the playoffs if they don't kick these habits.

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Seeing our most undeveloped dman out against other teams top players isn't exactly "looking for things to complain about", and when Carbo apparantly admitted (going from what was said above) that he doesn't bother matching lines is concerning (I had just thought he wasn't any good at it, but turns out he doesn't even try).

And our record is good so far, and with our talent it should be. But in the playoffs is when little things start to make a big difference. We aren't going to be getting 4 or 5 goals a game in the playoffs, so getting scored on because we have O'Byrne covering Ovechkin instead of Komisarek becomes a big deal. In the regular season there is a certain level of stuff the players and coach can get away with (with our talent level especially), but it will be an early exit from the playoffs if they don't kick these habits.

Thank you, Graeme, that sums up my concern perfectly.

And to underscore this point, when the Flyers eliminated us from the playoffs last spring in game 5, they started their comeback in that game by scoring a goal with our fourth line (Lapierre, Lats, Dandenault) and third D pairing (Bouillon, Gorges) on the ice. It doesn't look like much, but details add up. I was just watching Fan Radio on Sportsnet and McGowan and Brunt were talking about this exact same issue as it pertained to a recent Raptors loss: the coach kept a defensive liability on the court in the fourth quarter without making any effort to shield him from the top players of the other team (I think it was the Pistons). As it turns out, this defensive liability was a key factor in the team losing the game to an elite team, the Pistons.

That's what worries me. It's all very well to roll your lines robotically against bottom feeders, because by and large your team has the talent to overpower those teams anyway. But against top teams, and especially in the playoffs, it simply will not cut the mustard.

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Seeing our most undeveloped dman out against other teams top players isn't exactly "looking for things to complain about", and when Carbo apparantly admitted (going from what was said above) that he doesn't bother matching lines is concerning (I had just thought he wasn't any good at it, but turns out he doesn't even try).

And our record is good so far, and with our talent it should be. But in the playoffs is when little things start to make a big difference. We aren't going to be getting 4 or 5 goals a game in the playoffs, so getting scored on because we have O'Byrne covering Ovechkin instead of Komisarek becomes a big deal. In the regular season there is a certain level of stuff the players and coach can get away with (with our talent level especially), but it will be an early exit from the playoffs if they don't kick these habits.

well i think OB and others should cover the big boys from time to time but your right Guy has to get prepared for game 1 of the quarters and should prepare by doing what he would do in april

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All nonsense as far as I am concerned. Not that you don't have a right to have an opinion, I am not criticizing you in the least.

We have won our games so far this season on shear talent alone. Ottawa was beaten because the guys actually played well.

Those inept third and fourth liners and low tier dmen shut down one of the most explosive lines in the game. They have struggled this year but were 4-1 in the five games before they ran into us !!! What is there to criticize ?

We are not giving the opponant an advantage by roling our lines or using the third line against their best. We are forcing our game upon them !!!

And when we play our game, not many can compete. As for the playoffs, that is another story. We will have situations where our top lines will play more, we will have two centers on the faceoff, top dmen are double shifted..etc. etc. The good thing is they will all be rested due to our line rolling, and in those times in the playoffs when lineups cannot be made to our favour, our third and fourth lines will have the experience to handle the job.

In fact this will prove very important in the playoffs, because it is usually the team that has their role players come up big on a regular basis that wins the cup.

As I said before, you can disagree, you have that right, but that does not mean it is a mistake or bad coaching. It is an older style of coaching, and has been very effective for many teams.

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All nonsense as far as I am concerned. Not that you don't have a right to have an opinion, I am not criticizing you in the least.

We have won our games so far this season on shear talent alone. Ottawa was beaten because the guys actually played well.

Those inept third and fourth liners and low tier dmen shut down one of the most explosive lines in the game. They have struggled this year but were 4-1 in the five games before they ran into us !!! What is there to criticize ?

No one doubts this team has talent, but talent alone isn't enough to win a cup. Little things make the difference in the playoffs, and properly matching lines is a little thing that goes a long way

We are not giving the opponant an advantage by roling our lines

Wow I've been hard on Carbo at times, but are you actually suggesting that lines are matched better by random chance than if Carbo used his brain? Seems a bit insulting, but to each their own I guess.

As for the playoffs, that is another story. We will have situations where our top lines will play more, we will have two centers on the faceoff, top dmen are double shifted..etc. etc. The good thing is they will all be rested due to our line rolling, and in those times in the playoffs when lineups cannot be made to our favour, our third and fourth lines will have the experience to handle the job.

In fact this will prove very important in the playoffs, because it is usually the team that has their role players come up big on a regular basis that wins the cup.

Like the players, coaches also need practice. Why not try some strategic line matching decisions now? See what works and what doesn't, see what types of matchups work best for our team, etc.

As I said before, you can disagree, you have that right, but that does not mean it is a mistake or bad coaching. It is an older style of coaching, and has been very effective for many teams.

Ignoring the fact that the NHl today isn't the NHL from the 70s, can someone verify that coaches didn't worry about line matchups back then?

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Miltie, sorry, but it's clear that for you, Carbonneau can never make a mistake and can therefore never be wrong. That's your opinion, but it sure ain't mine. The fact that he's an authority figure doesn't make him perfect. He can be in error just like any other person. You aren't going to convince me that not caring about line matchups is good coaching, and I doubt I'll change your mind either, so let's agree to disagree here.

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Why is it that with Carbonneau, there always seems to be a but? He was runner-up for the Jack Adams, but... He got his team to finish first in the Eastern conference last year, but... He has a 9-2-2 record this year, getting 20 out of a possible 26 points, but... His message went through to his team, but...

I give him full credit! ;)

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Why is it that with Carbonneau, there always seems to be a but? He was runner-up for the Jack Adams, but... He got his team to finish first in the Eastern conference last year, but... He has a 9-2-2 record this year, getting 20 out of a possible 26 points, but... His message went through to his team, but...

I give him full credit! ;)

I have been hard on Carbs in the past and have also acknowledged where I've seen growth as a coach. His record cannot be disputed in terms of how the team has won as many games as they have.

One area I will be looking forward to is when he can have the team truly believeing in and fully embracing what he is trying to accomplish... when we can see the team wants to go to the mat for him every game. Its not there yet, but the recent turn-around in the game Saturday bodes well IMO.

He did an amazing job with Kovy last year (yes he definitely played a part in Kovy's success IMO) and Koivu seems rejuvenated this year. If he can get his top players firing on all cylinders then the rest of the team will follow and we will be in for a great ride.

There remain a few parts to the puzzle that if given to Carbs, will make his job that much easier. And managing the clutter on the fourth line will be a test unless BG can find a way to aleviate it to simplify the task.

I'm behind Carbs and I really hope he can put it all together.

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Why is it that with Carbonneau, there always seems to be a but? He was runner-up for the Jack Adams, but... He got his team to finish first in the Eastern conference last year, but... He has a 9-2-2 record this year, getting 20 out of a possible 26 points, but... His message went through to his team, but...

I give him full credit! ;)

Not to get too personal here, but didn't you post in the Kovalev thread after a 4 point night that he had 7 turnovers? (or another way to word that post would be "he had a 4 point night, but he had 7 turnovers". Not that there's anything wrong with this, we obviously encourage debate even after an excellent game, just curious how it's any different?

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The team did really good last year in the regular season. The team is off to a good start this season. However, I cannot ever remember Carbo out coaching the other coach. Is this just a strange Montreal bias or is Carbo not one of the better coaches?

I would think that a trip to the Stanley Cup finals and victory would be necessary before fans including myself give Carbo credit for being one of the better coaches in the NHL.

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The team did really good last year in the regular season. The team is off to a good start this season. However, I cannot ever remember Carbo out coaching the other coach. Is this just a strange Montreal bias or is Carbo not one of the better coaches?

I would think that a trip to the Stanley Cup finals and victory would be necessary before fans including myself give Carbo credit for being one of the better coaches in the NHL.

well obviously he will need to have some real playoff success to be credited with the best... i think he can achieve that at some point in his coaching career because first off he is a pretty good coach but he also has mounds of spring time experience to pass on

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Not to get too personal here, but didn't you post in the Kovalev thread after a 4 point night that he had 7 turnovers? (or another way to word that post would be "he had a 4 point night, but he had 7 turnovers". Not that there's anything wrong with this, we obviously encourage debate even after an excellent game, just curious how it's any different?

I've replied through PM's... not to be too personal.

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I think if Bob Gainey does what is best for the team and not for his personal life, replacing Carboneau is going to be a very real possibilty.

I trust Gainey and I love what Carboneau has done but I see signs that he can't fully connect with his team this year. They are not playing how he wants and it shows with the product on the ice.

This incosistency goes on much longer and it shows he is not the man to fix these problems.

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................ He got his team to finish first in the Eastern conference last year, but...

My personal opinion on last year is that the team played above their heads

They had no player out for an extended period of time with an injury unlike other teams ( Bruins : Bergeron , Flyers Gagne )

Kovalev had a career year . Chances of him repeating last year's stats are slim IMO

The beat Boston 8 times . If they had split the series with Boston , the Bruins end up first , the Habs end up 8th

I truyl hope they make me eat my words but...........

I've often wondered how this Habs lineup would perform if they had an experienced coach behind the bench . I look at the crappy Leafs lineup of no name players and every night they give it their all and at least are in games

The Habs just seem uninterested most nights

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Carbo:

"I'm still looking for answers and we'll be looking for answers tomorrow as to why we came out flat tonight."

"Of course I thought about pulling Price, but like other players on this team, he needs to learn to battle through tougher situations."

When asked about Komo who didn't play after his fight:

"No news yet about him. That's how we played last year. We stood up for each other and we're not doing it enough this year"

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Carbo:

"Of course I thought about pulling Price, but like other players on this team, he needs to learn to battle through tougher situations."

Shades of Mario Tremblay

Hey Guy :

Have you ever heard of changing goalies to give the team a spark .

Not leave your goalie in to get shell shocked

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"The coach can't keep on having meetings to have to motivate his team every game, it makes no sense. If the team can't motivate themselves for two consecutive games, there's something wrong there!" ~ Michel Bergeron, former Quebec Nordiques' head coach.

Shades of Mario Tremblay

Hey Guy :

Have you ever heard of changing goalies to give the team a spark .

Not leave your goalie in to get shell shocked

When asked if he would have pulled Price, Michel Bergeron said:

"Perhaps I would have, but I can see why Carbonneau kept him in there. He most likely spoke to Roland Melançon between periods and they made the decision to keep him there. He's most likely thinking that he doesn't want to pull his young players every time they make mistakes, he doesn't want to be a Mike Keenan."

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I honestly don't even know what he can do to get this team going. How can the team control the game against Ottawa only two days prior to whatever the hell this was tonight? Maybe he'll have to be harder on them in practices more often. Get them into the habit of constantly working hard.

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