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Jay Bouwmeester


jl-1

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Trade Latendresse, Halak and one of the 4th line guys(not Lapierre) for Bouwmeester. On any other team, Latendresse would be in the AHL. Give Chipchura a chance.

LOL. ok so you want to acquire one of the best young defensmen in the league for a goalie with a total of 25 nhl games under his belt, a fourth liner (But not our best fourth liner) and a guy who you say "should be in the AHL"

Yeah, not going to happen.

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Trade Latendresse, Halak and one of the 4th line guys(not Lapierre) for Bouwmeester. On any other team, Latendresse would be in the AHL. Give Chipchura a chance.

This is the exact model of a trade that makes zero sense on any front. It could be in the running for the title of generic Habs offer, the new Ryder, Halak and a 2nd. :D

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To Montreal:

Nick Boynton (cap hit 2.95 million)

5th rounder in 2009

To Florida:

Ryan O'Byrne (0.942 million)

Kyle Chipchura (0.943 million)

2nd rounder in 2009 or 2010

Remove Chipchura, Florida's 5th rounder, and negociate for the rounder we give and we might get somewhere with this.

Something like this :

To Montreal

Boynton

To Florida

O'Byrne

3rd or 4th rounder in 2009

Still, Boynton would rather be 3rd or 4th on my list of guys I would go for.

But it is far more interesting than aiming too high for nothing.

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Remove Chipchura, Florida's 5th rounder, and negociate for the rounder we give and we might get somewhere with this.

Something like this :

To Montreal

Boynton

To Florida

O'Byrne

3rd or 4th rounder in 2009

Still, Boynton would rather be 3rd or 4th on my list of guys I would go for.

But it is far more interesting than aiming too high for nothing.

If Boynton is available for that little I'm all for pulling the trigger.

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... even if we offered every draft pick we had for the next two years Florida would laugh.

I have my doubts if Bouwmeester will cost that much more then six million however we still have extra salary available in the event he does. As for Plekenac, that would severely depend on whether or not he rebounds as currently his value is low. Nonetheless three million is not a large jump from what I had suggested.

Regarding Komisarek I concede I was being optimistic however as previously discussed is Komisarek worth much more then four million? Higgins will not be here if we acquire Bouwmeester, no chance whatsoever hence his absence from my budget. Price's extension will certainly be a cause for concern financially however this is where trades are made during the season or we can simply not sign Tanguay or Komisarek. Bouwmeester is the better defensive player then Komisarek and worth his weight in gold.

I know, its just the only thing I would give up right now

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Yeah, instead, we just have to offer other teams our gold, and get their treasure we don't really need. It's called overspending, or '' my mother's weekly shopping run''.

How do you really feel about trading for a true star player? It hasn't been very clear in the last few threads... :lol:

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No way is Boynton available for that little. He was half the deal they made for Olli Jokinen and O'byrne isn't what I would call "good"

And he was put on waivers last season... we had a chance, along with 28 other teams. No one picked him up.

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How do you really feel about trading for a true star player? It hasn't been very clear in the last few threads... :lol:

I'm tired. :D

I feel that we don't need a true star player, first. And that we certainly don't need to get ***** Shero's way to get one.

Our weak link is O'Byrne. Not scoring, we're scoring plenty already (were 3rd in the NHL for GF/G last time I checked yesterday I think) and we don't need a '' true star player '' to replace him.

To me, no need, no overspending. No deal.

And he was put on waivers last season... we had a chance, along with 28 other teams. No one picked him up.

3 Millions.

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Again, if you want to use my terms on purpose, don't cut my sentences in half. It's bad faith.

Bouwmeester isn't just too good, that is illogical, he's too good for the role we need to have filled.

Besides, in a salary cap world, you have to say no sometimes to very talented players.

In a salary-cap-less league, sure, the Habs could afford Bouwmeester, Gaborik and Kovalchuk in addition to their current roster, the organization is amongst those who could spend much more than the max cap. But this isn't such a league anymore. Choices has to be made, and weighted carefully before.

I completely get your point, but looking at this only in the short term, you mention what we need to fill, but who knows what we truly "need". Maybe we could win the cup just by trying to get someone like Boynton, but I'd say get JayBo and our chances improve greatly, We keep Komisarek and enter the playoffs with easily the best defense int he East, and one which could be compared, and possibly even beat, the Western heavyweights. This team will break up this summer, I wouldn't mind taking one good shot at the cup. And the price JL posted, isn't that bad. We lose a good winger who we will probably have to trade this summer anyways to re-sign more important players, a young, under-devloped dmen (which we have lots of coming up), a prospect (this hurts, but we'll manage) and a player who doesn't even have a lineup spot. ' Is it worth it for one shot at the cup? Maybe.

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If we have to sacrifice a bit at forward in the coming seasons in order to acquire and sign a guy like Bouwmeester to a long-term deal, you do it. He is a legit top-2 defenseman and defense wins championships. Build from the blueline out.

We wouldn't just sacrifice '' a bit '' in this deal proposal. And it wouldn't be the end of the sacrifice, coming summertime. Bouwmeester will get 7M. This means, either no more Komisarek, or we lose at the very least 1 top forward on our team (plus Higgins, plus one good prospect with legit chances to replace one of the two)

We have very good D-men coming in just one to two years. For free. We don't even need Jaybo long-term. But hey, if you can sign him this summer and let go Komisarek, that is one way to go, and I'd respect it, but to give too much at the deadline, to then let go something very useful this summer yet again, it's starting to become more and more too high a price. We only need a quick fix. And a quick fix is cheaper.

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I completely get your point, but looking at this only in the short term, you mention what we need to fill, but who knows what we truly "need". Maybe we could win the cup just by trying to get someone like Boynton, but I'd say get JayBo and our chances improve greatly, We keep Komisarek and enter the playoffs with easily the best defense int he East, and one which could be compared, and possibly even beat, the Western heavyweights. This team will break up this summer, I wouldn't mind taking one good shot at the cup. And the price JL posted, isn't that bad. We lose a good winger who we will probably have to trade this summer anyways to re-sign more important players, a young, under-devloped dmen (which we have lots of coming up), a prospect (this hurts, but we'll manage) and a player who doesn't even have a lineup spot. ' Is it worth it for one shot at the cup? Maybe.

It depends. If we give more than we receive, our chances don't become better.

We will lose some feathers, but does it means that we have to intentionally drop more feathers right away ? Guys like Higgins and said prospect are cheap, when you are supposed to re-sign players and expect to lose several of them, you need cheaper players to replace them, even if you lose some skill in the process.

This summer, if I'd get to choose one of the two following options :

- We re-sign Koivu, Tanguay (or Kovalev), Higgins, Komisarek, Plekanec, Latendresse.

- We let go Kovalev, Lang.

or

- We re-sign Koivu, Tanguay, Kovalev, Komisarek, Latendresse.

- We let go Higgins, Plekanec, Lang.

I prefer option A, we end up with one less star, but our supporting cast stays better.

We can choose the Lightning way, holding to our stars and letting all the rest go down the drain, or we can choose the other way, holding to a few stars, and keeping the rest of our core together.

We aren't likely to have to let go Higgins anyway.

So, is this trade worth ONE shot at the cup when we can get 4, 5 shots by being careful and planning ahead instead of going all out like the Penguins ? Their addition of Hossa made them over the top, didn't it ? Now they aren't likely to get a second chance this year. There are at least 4 teams better than them just in the eastern conference. They'd need plenty of dominos to fall to even get to the finals again.

As for what Weep suggested, that we could re-sign Bouwmeester, it is so much uncertain that we shouldn't even plan this far. I mean, the Penguins did have compelling arguments to convince Hossa to re-sign with them, didn't they ? Playing with Crosby is every sniper's wet dream, but he didn't stay. They paid too much for a rental, they didn't win, and he didn't stay. I just don't want this to happen to us.

If you are all fine with this, then pray that BG makes such a trade, but be ready to suffer the very possible bad outcome of it. (which we don't even need to suffer)

Last year, the Red Wings felt they needed a fourth D-man, and they got Stuart for a 2nd and a 4th. They won. It doesn't always take a home run to win a game. Just a point more than the opposition.

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It depends. If we give more than we receive, our chances don't become better.

But in the short term all we're really giving is Higgins and a tiny bit of depth. O'Byrne is a liability right now, Begin doesn't even have a lineup spot, and the "prospect" isn't on the team yet. Looking at this short term, Higgins plus a bit of depth for JayBo, I do that in a second.

We will lose some feathers, but does it means that we have to intentionally drop more feathers right away ? Guys like Higgins and said prospect are cheap, when you are supposed to re-sign players and expect to lose several of them, you need cheaper players to replace them, even if you lose some skill in the process.

This summer, if I'd get to choose one of the two following options :

- We re-sign Koivu, Tanguay (or Kovalev), Higgins, Komisarek, Plekanec, Latendresse.

- We let go Kovalev, Lang.

or

- We re-sign Koivu, Tanguay, Kovalev, Komisarek, Latendresse.

- We let go Higgins, Plekanec, Lang.

Higgins won't be that cheap, he'll want a nice raise on his current deal, especially if we want to keep him into his UFA years. I'm guessing a 3.5 - 4.5 million deal will be required to lock him up, so not exactly "cheap".

And I don't think either of those lists are realistc. In the firs tcase, I don't think you can afford it under the cap (sure we can afford it if you throw in the unrealistic UFA numbers people seem to think we'll get players for every year, but looking at what those guys will actually get, it seems unlikely). Now drop Higgins from that list and replace him with someone from Hamilton making under a million, and we may be able to afford it. And on the second list, Plekanek isn't exactly going to be cheap (my guess: 5 million a year to get him locked up long term), plus there's no way he's leaving, so that's not a realistic option of players to keep and lose.

So, is this trade worth ONE shot at the cup when we can get 4, 5 shots by being careful and planning ahead instead of going all out like the Penguins ? Their addition of Hossa made them over the top, didn't it ? Now they aren't likely to get a second chance this year. There are at least 4 teams better than them just in the eastern conference. They'd need plenty of dominos to fall to even get to the finals again.

That's a valid point, and if it wasn't valid, making the trade would be simple. Trading is always about making trade-offs (was it worth it to trade a first and second rounder for a player who was essentially a year long rental?). I do get where you're coming from, but in this case, it's a trade off I'd at the very least strongly consider.

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But in the short term all we're really giving is Higgins and a tiny bit of depth. O'Byrne is a liability right now, Begin doesn't even have a lineup spot, and the "prospect" isn't on the team yet. Looking at this short term, Higgins plus a bit of depth for JayBo, I do that in a second.

Higgins won't be that cheap, he'll want a nice raise on his current deal, especially if we want to keep him into his UFA years. I'm guessing a 3.5 - 4.5 million deal will be required to lock him up, so not exactly "cheap".

And I don't think either of those lists are realistc. In the firs tcase, I don't think you can afford it under the cap (sure we can afford it if you throw in the unrealistic UFA numbers people seem to think we'll get players for every year, but looking at what those guys will actually get, it seems unlikely). Now drop Higgins from that list and replace him with someone from Hamilton making under a million, and we may be able to afford it. And on the second list, Plekanek isn't exactly going to be cheap (my guess: 5 million a year to get him locked up long term), plus there's no way he's leaving, so that's not a realistic option of players to keep and lose.

That's a valid point, and if it wasn't valid, making the trade would be simple. Trading is always about making trade-offs (was it worth it to trade a first and second rounder for a player who was essentially a year long rental?). I do get where you're coming from, but in this case, it's a trade off I'd at the very least strongly consider.

The real question here is: Is Gainey willing to consider it? Based on the answer he gave to the Gaborik trade and given his recent trade history, I'd say no...But it can't entirely be ruled out.

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"Jaybo"... I'm not sure the guy would really like that name... too close to Jaylo :lol:

This guy is the future and now IMO. I love Hamrlik, but IMO Bouwmeester would be an upgrade. There is a plus in that Hammer did play in Florida before (does he have an NTC).

Now I'm not saying a one for one trade in any way, but this could be a good starting point for both clubs.

Yes there is the question of keeping the "Meester" long-term and with a trade of such magnitude I couldn't see it materializing otherwise. And yes there are some who will say we are no further ahead and still need that top-four d-man... but perhaps there could be more coming the Habs way in a trade... if not with the Panthers perhaps elsewhere.

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If we have to sacrifice a bit at forward in the coming seasons in order to acquire and sign a guy like Bouwmeester to a long-term deal, you do it. He is a legit top-2 defenseman and defense wins championships. Build from the blueline out.

Agreed. We have Price in net for years to come. We have Markov and Hamrlik signed for a few more years, and I'm drooling at the thought of having Bouwmeester joining those two at our blue line. If there is enough money, you re-sign Komisarek. If not, you've improved regardless.

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But in the short term all we're really giving is Higgins and a tiny bit of depth. O'Byrne is a liability right now, Begin doesn't even have a lineup spot, and the "prospect" isn't on the team yet. Looking at this short term, Higgins plus a bit of depth for JayBo, I do that in a second.

I totally agree with you, about the short term. Only this is, to me, short term is all good, but maintaining a tradition of excellence (long-term) is more important. That's my problem :D

As for Higgins, he might get 3.5 and I'll consider him a mid-range player, he would still be cheaper than the cast in front of him. I like my team to have plenty of 2.5-4M players plus a select few 5+ players. I don't like the other way around : more 5M players than talented mid-range prospects. It gives the late Tampa Bay fiasco and the recent Ottawa fiasco-to-be.

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We wouldn't just sacrifice '' a bit '' in this deal proposal. And it wouldn't be the end of the sacrifice, coming summertime. Bouwmeester will get 7M. This means, either no more Komisarek, or we lose at the very least 1 top forward on our team (plus Higgins, plus one good prospect with legit chances to replace one of the two)

We have very good D-men coming in just one to two years. For free. We don't even need Jaybo long-term. But hey, if you can sign him this summer and let go Komisarek, that is one way to go, and I'd respect it, but to give too much at the deadline, to then let go something very useful this summer yet again, it's starting to become more and more too high a price. We only need a quick fix. And a quick fix is cheaper.

What most fail to acknowledge or recognize is that if we did make a huge deal to get Jaybo ... there is absolutely no guarentee he stays with Montreal next seaon, meaning we cost ourselves the components we traded to get him for short term gain.

We don't need Jaybo ... we a need a #4 Dman on depth.

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