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Who Would You Rather: Joe Thornton Or Vincent Lecavalier?


Bourne

Who would you rather?  

117 members have voted

  1. 1. Who would you rather?

    • Joe Thornton
      39
    • Vincent Lecavalier
      78


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Yes, Vinny won the cup in 04, he's a french-Canadian star and would be a top draw and producer for the Habs for a few years (maybe 6), but his contract has a cap hit of 7.73M for 11 years OUCH! That handcuffs us!

Joe hasn't really performed great in the playoffs, but is a dynamic player that I'm sure would be very motivated to get a solid playoff run going, he's worn the "C" in the NHL and is a leader in the dressing room (all things we need). His cap hit is 7.2M for 2 more years.

Just based on the terms of their contracts I'd go for Thornton. San Jose will be looking to make changes because of their year ending WAY TOO EARLY.

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for a one year deal? Id take Vinny. I think he can bring more to the habs at this point & I think its just the perfect "story" for montreal.

based on their current contracts? Thornton without hesitation. Perhaps if he's finally on the same team as saku he can play well in the playoffs as opposed to being outplayed by a guy 1/2 his size! :P Oh and if he came here (thorton, that is) Id make a rule that he has to leave his shirt on at all times!

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u really seem to see things differently then many others dont u...

...Viny is a tremendous players and racks up pts almost every night and doing great even while he's playing with one of the worst teams. What u talkin about? u think Viny is gonna take his team by all himself to the post-season? he's gotta need some help somehow from his teammates to do so, thats y it's called a team.

Imagine if he's playing for us....

I would choose Viny, all the way, no doubt and he deserves his money, not like any other foreign players that almost get paid like him and dont have a heart and not even close to his level!

I suppose so! :D:P

I wish we had just drafted and developed our own top-line talent. Instead, year after year, we have these discussions about who we need/want, and we never get anyone who fits the need. When it comes to drafting, we can sure develop 2nd and 3rd line players without a hitch, but have no one in our system who can be a top-line center in the next few seasons. Not unless someone completely shocks us!

Instead of Vinny or Jumbo Joe, I wish we had found a way to draft that Cody Hodgson kid. :(

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I would definitely take Lecavalier, Montreal needs a true top notch marquee forward, we haven't had anything close since the likes of Guy Lafleur which was 25 years ago now. To everyone that says Lecavalier isn't a playoff performer he is, you can't discount player with his talent's contribution, he may not have been the very best player for Tampa sure Richards and St. Louis played very well but no one can deny that Lecavalier was influential in helping them win, if Tampa didn't have Lecavalier I dare say they probably wouldn't have won the Cup that year. Also when comparing him to Thornton there's one major reason why I would take Lecavalier over him and that's availibility, everyone knows that Tampa is willing to offload him but in Thornton's case it hasn't once been mentioned that San Jose would want to trade him. Finally as for Lecavalier's contract who cares if it's big, are you paying it? As a fan all I care about is the team winning, yes I know it's not a good idea to splurge on 1 player but right now we have a ton of cap space as well as a decent base to work in terms of young players and the good news about our free agents is that most of them didn't have a strong season and we could probably bring them back at a reduced rate. As far as I'm concerned this team is really one good player away from being a winner and that one player may very well be Lecavalier.

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I would definitely take Lecavalier, Montreal needs a true top notch marquee forward, we haven't had anything close since the likes of Guy Lafleur which was 25 years ago now. To everyone that says Lecavalier isn't a playoff performer he is, you can't discount player with his talent's contribution, he may not have been the very best player for Tampa sure Richards and St. Louis played very well but no one can deny that Lecavalier was influential in helping them win, if Tampa didn't have Lecavalier I dare say they probably wouldn't have won the Cup that year. Also when comparing him to Thornton there's one major reason why I would take Lecavalier over him and that's availibility, everyone knows that Tampa is willing to offload him but in Thornton's case it hasn't once been mentioned that San Jose would want to trade him. Finally as for Lecavalier's contract who cares if it's big, are you paying it? As a fan all I care about is the team winning, yes I know it's not a good idea to splurge on 1 player but right now we have a ton of cap space as well as a decent base to work in terms of young players and the good news about our free agents is that most of them didn't have a strong season and we could probably bring them back at a reduced rate. As far as I'm concerned this team is really one good player away from being a winner and that one player may very well be Lecavalier.

I'm not so sure about the part I bolded. While we do have a decent base of young players (assuming they all stop regressing like they did this year) we were right up against the cap this year. I know you say that Schneider, Dandenault, Boullion, etc. won't be coming back, but they still need to be replaced and even call-ups from Hamilton cost some $$. Add Vinny's huge cap hit and it will be all young players around him. Especially with the cap likely going down over the next few years, even with reduced rates there's no way we'd hold on to or sign enough UFAs to ice a competative team.

Plus let's face it, the odds of winning a cup next year simply aren't good enough to mortgage the team's long term future. Even if by some miracle we can sign or resign some of UFAs for a discount and ice a competative team, what happens after that? Vinny's cap hit would look even bigger in a few years when all those young players that stepped up their game enough to make that team good leave when we have no space to give them higher contracts. Worse still, seven years down the road when his play drops off we're still stuck with that huge salary on the books.

Think of it this way: would you sign Brendan Shanahan to a 7.5M contract today? That's what we'd basically be doing by the time the 2015-2016 season rolls around.

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for a one year deal? Id take Vinny. I think he can bring more to the habs at this point & I think its just the perfect "story" for montreal.

based on their current contracts? Thornton without hesitation. Perhaps if he's finally on the same team as saku he can play well in the playoffs as opposed to being outplayed by a guy 1/2 his size! :P Oh and if he came here (thorton, that is) Id make a rule that he has to leave his shirt on at all times!

only 1yr contract, if Vinny comes to MTL, he will finish his career here as a HAB.

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Thornton in a New York minute. This whole "can't perform in the playoffs" thing is really overblown. He does perform, and his contract isn't ridiculous like Lecavalier's contract.

Thornton is good but he is no sniper.Montreal has to many playmakers,Vinny has scored 40 and 50 goals in a season.Who will Thornton get 100 assists with here?I f we get a Thornton type player we better get Kovalchuk as well.

I'm not even saying it absolutely has to be Lecavalier I just think he is the best available choice for what the habs need.

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If I had my way it would be Kovalchuck, but that is not an option here.

Thorton hands down. Lecalvier has gone through shoulder and wrist surgery and has some stupid contract for the next 10/11 years. The length of the contract should scare management away but I see some of the players they bring here. Thorton is a great playmaker and I think at some point in time would break through his playoff short comings. Put him between A.Kostitsyn and Kovalev and I think we have a very dangerous line.

With that said, Bob has come clean and discussed the fact that a deal was virtually in place to bring Lecalvier here so I think that the arrival of Lecalvier is inevitable:(.

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Vinny, Montreal needs goal scoring, plus Thornton always seems to take a step back in the playoffs.

Well if we had Joe I think Andrei K would be a pretty big goal scorer on his wing, also his contract is way more workable.

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Well, we've all watched Joe "what's his name" non-perform in the playoffs - and more than one year.

If his asking price isn't coming down, his value sure is.

Now I know why Boston traded him - he just isn't consistent when the pressure is on.

Hope he isn't on the team we send to Vancouver in 2010.

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Well if we had Joe I think Andrei K would be a pretty big goal scorer on his wing, also his contract is way more workable.

Honestly I think we might have to part with the Kostitsyns if we wanted Thornton. He is their best forward, arguably and although his value is down after the Shark's early exit, neither Kostitsyn is boosting high value either. I do not believe San Jose will take a struggling centre and prospects, although I would prefer to move Plek myself.

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Jesus, people, this whole "Thornton doesn't perform in the playoffs thing" is nonsense. Through 76 playoff games played, he's produced 53 points for a rate of 0.69 PPG, while Lecavalier, in his substantially smaller sample size of 45 GP, has produced 33 points for a 0.73 PPG clip. Lecavalier's numbers largely come from his performance in 03-04 when he wasn't even the best forward on his team -- Tampa Bay won that Cup on the back of Richards and St. Louis both playing at a high level and Khabibulin playing out of his mind in nets. Lecavalier was the least productive and impactful of the so-called Big Three.

Someone like sportsfreak can adjust the numbers to give more weight to goals over assists, which would put Lecavalier ahead a bit more, but that's just a function of the two being different types of players. Thornton is a playmaker, Lecavalier is a scorer. In a sense, choosing between them is like apples and oranges.

The idea that one forward can win it all on his own is usually nonsense. Tampa Bay needed a strong cast of winners, including but not limited to the Big Three, to go all the way. In every playoff series Thornton has lost, do you remember anyone else on his team doing anything of note? Marleau's playoff PPG average (0.67) is lower than Thornton's, and I can't remember anybody on the old Thornton-led Boston teams doing much of anything in the two playoff series they lost to us.

To sum up, Thornton's playoff struggles are grossly exaggerated, and since his contract is far more reasonable than Lecavalier's and he isn't coming off multiple surgeries, I'd take him over Lecavalier in a second.

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Jesus, people, this whole "Thornton doesn't perform in the playoffs thing" is nonsense. Through 76 playoff games played, he's produced 53 points for a rate of 0.69 PPG, while Lecavalier, in his substantially smaller sample size of 45 GP, has produced 33 points for a 0.73 PPG clip. Lecavalier's numbers largely come from his performance in 03-04 when he wasn't even the best forward on his team -- Tampa Bay won that Cup on the back of Richards and St. Louis both playing at a high level and Khabibulin playing out of his mind in nets. Lecavalier was the least productive and impactful of the so-called Big Three.

Someone like sportsfreak can adjust the numbers to give more weight to goals over assists, which would put Lecavalier ahead a bit more, but that's just a function of the two being different types of players. Thornton is a playmaker, Lecavalier is a scorer. In a sense, choosing between them is like apples and oranges.

The idea that one forward can win it all on his own is usually nonsense. Tampa Bay needed a strong cast of winners, including but not limited to the Big Three, to go all the way. In every playoff series Thornton has lost, do you remember anyone else on his team doing anything of note? Marleau's playoff PPG average (0.67) is lower than Thornton's, and I can't remember anybody on the old Thornton-led Boston teams doing much of anything in the two playoff series they lost to us.

To sum up, Thornton's playoff struggles are grossly exaggerated, and since his contract is far more reasonable than Lecavalier's and he isn't coming off multiple surgeries, I'd take him over Lecavalier in a second.

Also it is important to note, that ever since being traded to San Jose Thorton has 6 goals and 35 points in 41 games.

Those respective per game ratios are .15 and .85.

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Jesus, people, this whole "Thornton doesn't perform in the playoffs thing" is nonsense. Through 76 playoff games played, he's produced 53 points for a rate of 0.69 PPG, while Lecavalier, in his substantially smaller sample size of 45 GP, has produced 33 points for a 0.73 PPG clip. Lecavalier's numbers largely come from his performance in 03-04 when he wasn't even the best forward on his team -- Tampa Bay won that Cup on the back of Richards and St. Louis both playing at a high level and Khabibulin playing out of his mind in nets. Lecavalier was the least productive and impactful of the so-called Big Three.

Someone like sportsfreak can adjust the numbers to give more weight to goals over assists, which would put Lecavalier ahead a bit more, but that's just a function of the two being different types of players. Thornton is a playmaker, Lecavalier is a scorer. In a sense, choosing between them is like apples and oranges.

The idea that one forward can win it all on his own is usually nonsense. Tampa Bay needed a strong cast of winners, including but not limited to the Big Three, to go all the way. In every playoff series Thornton has lost, do you remember anyone else on his team doing anything of note? Marleau's playoff PPG average (0.67) is lower than Thornton's, and I can't remember anybody on the old Thornton-led Boston teams doing much of anything in the two playoff series they lost to us.

To sum up, Thornton's playoff struggles are grossly exaggerated, and since his contract is far more reasonable than Lecavalier's and he isn't coming off multiple surgeries, I'd take him over Lecavalier in a second.

YYYYYEEEEEEESSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I feel that Thornton would fit in well here, not to mention he'd definately be very motivated in next season's 1st rd matchup of #4 Montreal vs#5 Boston!

We have the cap space now and the term won't leave us crippled for 10 years!

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I wasn't sure where to post this, but a very angry Doug Wilson made some media statements today, I'll bold the trade-related comments, but the whole thing is worth a read:

A ton of material to process before print edition deadline from today’s farewells at Sharks Ice, but I wanted to throw something on the blog before it got even later.

GM Doug Wilson did meet with the media and there were columnists and TV crews aplenty. Wilson wouldn’t get into any specific changes — understandably as the evaluation/assessment process needs to run its course — but he had something to say and he didn’t want people to have to wait a week to hear it.

“I apologize to our fans and I apologize to our owners because they deserve better,” Wilson said.

“And believe me, I take full responsibility. You bring in people and you bring in situations and if there’s any enabling or entitlement that comes from that, then that belongs right here and nowhere else.”

Wilson noted that he usually waits a week to calm down after a playoff exit, “but you don’t deserve me having a week.”

Wilson, who said this was by far the most painful playoff exit yet, said at various times that fans “should be pissed off” and “should feel cheated.” That last point prompted someone to ask him if he felt cheated, too.

“I don’t feel cheated. I feel responsible. I’m part of it. If I’m part of the problem, then I better be working to find us solutions here.”

Everything and everyone is on the table, he said.

He was asked if maybe he was second guessing his own plan to surround players already here with those who had won the Stanley Cup in the past.

“Did we bring too many and prevent growth from our own people? I don’t know,” he said. “Am I going to ask that question of myself? Absolutely. Do you dabble too much? Do you do too much? Was it time for this group to grow up and handle what was in front of them? I don’t have the answers, but those are the questions that will be asked and should be asked. And we’ll get answers.”

Other topics covered by Wilson included:

(Coach Todd McLellan) “I think he tried to push every button that he could. . . . Obviously there are things he’s questioning himself about. Todd’s a big boy and he can answer those. But he’ll definitely be our coach going forward.”

(Should the core group be broken up) “There’s levels of your core and there won’t be one player or staff member that doesn’t get questioned. Should any of us feel comfortable? The answer is no. Do we have to change the mix? Absolutely.”

(On the idea that drawing Anaheim was bad luck) “Where we wanted to get to, we would have had to beat Anaheim, we would have had to beat Detroit. . .. People say it was the luck of the draw, but that’s an excuse again. If we had played Detroit in the first round, deal with it and beat them.

“Our goal is to win. If you have to avoid people to get to where you want to, then there’s something wrong with the team. This woe-is-me (attitude) ends. We should have found a way to beat them.”

(On forcing players to confront what just happened) “I told all our players, I don’t want anybody avoiding it. Somebody comes up and tells you how they feel, you look them in the eye and you better listen and understand that disappointment is real.

“This should stick with people and eat at them all summer. A couple of guys were literally in tears today, real tears.”

(Is he thinking “blow up the roster” or something more surgical) “Right now, everything from one extreme to the other will be explored. Where we end up will come from some of the evalualtions and input from people who get a chance to speak. I’m not going to sit here and say we’re just going to make minor tweaks. It would be foolish to say that.”

OK, that’s it for now. Can’t ignore those other deadline pressures any longer. Back later

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/sharks/2009/0...gm-doug-wilson/

I can't wait for the video of this.

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So it is all but official, Thornton may be a real possibility in the trade market? Well now this certainly is interestind. I had figured Wilson would be fuming however I never would have wagered him blasting the entire roster. Good for him however, because the Sharks definitely should have been a solid contender and were less of a challenge than a vastly inferior Ranger team, that nearly downed the Caps.

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Wow, Wilson sounded really disappointed. I guess I would be, too. So many years of expectations and not even an appearance in the conference finals (I think) to show for it. I really thought the Sharks were going to be a major threat this season. I guess not. Perhaps there is some real opportunity for some of their major pieces to be traded. :D

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A buddy of mine just reminded me of something re: Thornton...

Now I'm not making comparisons per se but didn't Yzerman have a stigma early in his career regarding playoff performance. Not that Joe would become the new Yzerman but that recollection did seem a little interesting.

Anyone else recall this from way back when?

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A buddy of mine just reminded me of something re: Thornton...

Now I'm not making comparisons per se but didn't Yzerman have a stigma early in his career regarding playoff performance. Not that Joe would become the new Yzerman but that recollection did seem a little interesting.

Anyone else recall this from way back when?

Nah. He didnt play in the playoffs much because his team was so bad, but when he played, he was good.

196gp 70g 115a 185 pts

his totals were pretty even throughout his playoff career.

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Jesus, people, this whole "Thornton doesn't perform in the playoffs thing" is nonsense.

It's not that he doesn't perform, but he isn't the same player you get in the regular season. This is a former Hart winner, so while his playoff stats have been decent, I think you'd need to take into account when acquiring him while he may be a superstar playmaker in the regular season, he's just a good player in the playoffs. I suppose you could argue that Lecalvier isn't a star player either (including regular season, and his playoff stats also have never been amazing), but at least he has managed to get over a PPG in his last postseason appearance, something Thornton has never managed.

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