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Tampa Is At It Again With Expecting Overpayment


Bourne

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Nothing solid however there has been rumors in regards to a deal being made between Toronto and Tampa Bay, which would have both clubs swap picks. Tampa has publicly denied this, claiming they will only move their second round pick if in return Toronto traded Luke Scheen and Thomas Kaberle. There is rumors that Toronto wanted Ryan Malone in addition to that second round pick.

So essentially the deals would look like

Kaberle

Scheen

Toronto's first pick (7th in the entry draft)

for

Tampa's first pick (2nd in the entry draft)

and possibly Ryan Malone.

Is it just me or is Tampa Bay's management bloody delusional? First they want Markov and three first rounders from us, now they want Toronto's entire defense? I hope we do not deal with these fools, just so they have to wallow in their own idiocy.

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Toronto has a decent gm, i think he would turn that down.

Kaberle

2nd round pick 2009

Toronto's first pick (7th in the entry draft)

for

Tampa's first pick (2nd in the entry draft)

Ryan Malone

This would make more sense for the leafs.

And that doesn't make sense for Tampa.

I think Toronto would need to add an additional first rounder.

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And that doesn't make sense for Tampa.

I think Toronto would need to add an additional first rounder.

Actually it does, Malone has been argubly a bust in Tampa and is locked into a massive salary, thus ridding themselves of him for a much more managable Kaberle contract would certainly be an improvement, not to mention Kaberle is a fantastic defenseman and Tampa still is able to draft seventh in a very deep draft year. Now if the wrestled a trade with us, which I hate to say is still a possibility given Montreal's demand for a Francophone player (no idea if management feels this way but the owner prefers it), they would become a solid franchise in two moves.

I certainly hope Montreal is in no way involved and even if they are not, that is still not a bad deal.

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It seems outrageous, but the difference between 2nd and 7th can be massive and worth someone like Schenn. It really depends on the draft. In the Crosby draft, the difference between 1st and 2nd was probably worth Schenn + Kaberle. It all depends on where the dropoffs are and how big.

So it depends on the specific draft, and if they feel Taveres is that much better than who they get in 7th, then it may be worth it to Toronto. I'm not a guy who really follows future prospects, so I can't really answer (although from the impression I get, Tavares isn't worth that much extra). Also remember this is negotiating, it's likely they are starting out too high and get Toronto to come down.

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I don't think Tampa Bay are being crazy by asking for Schen, Kaberle, and a 1st round (7th overall) choice. Let Toronto pony up if they want to run their mouth about wanting to trade up in the draft and get Tavares. Burke should shut-up and stop talking about what Toronto is "Gonna do" and start making something happen. Tampa Bay has identified the need for D, they're asking for a potential franchise d-man in return for a potential franchise forward, while hoping to get Toronto's 1st round (which goes without saying) and Kaberle as a dump (I assume). Wasn't Toronto trying to shop Kaberle anyways?

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It seems outrageous, but the difference between 2nd and 7th can be massive and worth someone like Schenn. It really depends on the draft. In the Crosby draft, the difference between 1st and 2nd was probably worth Schenn + Kaberle. It all depends on where the dropoffs are and how big.

So it depends on the specific draft, and if they feel Taveres is that much better than who they get in 7th, then it may be worth it to Toronto. I'm not a guy who really follows future prospects, so I can't really answer (although from the impression I get, Tavares isn't worth that much extra). Also remember this is negotiating, it's likely they are starting out too high and get Toronto to come down.

great points, graeme

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Is it just me or is Tampa Bay's management bloody delusional? First they want Markov and three first rounders from us, now they want Toronto's entire defense? I hope we do not deal with these fools, just so they have to wallow in their own idiocy.

First off, I would not call a team delusional for asking for more than a player is worth. SJ somehow managed to get Joe Thornton, in the middle of a hart trophy and art ross season, no less - for spare parts. Was SJ delusional for asking? or was Boston inept for agreeing. I have disliked Brian Walton since his playing days but i dont think its fair to say he's an idiot just because he tries to get on the winning side of a deal.

Second, I think the Markov info is 100% false. The only names gainey ever confirmed were higgins, pleks and jorges - he never mentioned markov. I believe this was some overzealous Tampa Bay fans who hoped this is what happened. I dont think its fair to hang a team's management based on fan speculation. Also the schenn/kaberle rumor, is just that, right? Rumor? I dont think its even that out of whack based on they hype surrounding Tavares/Hedman, but again, its pure speculation.

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In the Crosby draft, the difference between 1st and 2nd was probably worth Schenn + Kaberle.

????

Bobby Ryan

Luke Schenn

Thomas Kaberle

for

Sidney Crosby

Sign me up for option A !!!

*****

The precedent is when Pittsburgh moved from 3rd to 1st to get marc andre fleury. They gave a 2nd and a 3rd. The 3rd pick was nathan horton.

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Burke has already denied this rumour and has once again stated that Schenn will NOT be part of any deal for the higher pick.

Take his word for what its worth. ;)

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First off, I would not call a team delusional for asking for more than a player is worth. SJ somehow managed to get Joe Thornton, in the middle of a hart trophy and art ross season, no less - for spare parts. Was SJ delusional for asking? or was Boston inept for agreeing. I have disliked Brian Walton since his playing days but i dont think its fair to say he's an idiot just because he tries to get on the winning side of a deal.

Agreed, and you generally don't want to put your best hand (what you'll give or what you're willing to accept) on the table right away or you have nowhere you can negotiate to. Again, without knowing a ton about the specifics of the draft, I'd say Schenn+Kaberle to move from 7th to 2nd sounds on the high side, but it's unlikely the deal would end up that way.

Second, I think the Markov info is 100% false. The only names gainey ever confirmed were higgins, pleks and jorges - he never mentioned markov. I believe this was some overzealous Tampa Bay fans who hoped this is what happened. I dont think its fair to hang a team's management based on fan speculation. Also the schenn/kaberle rumor, is just that, right? Rumor? I dont think its even that out of whack based on they hype surrounding Tavares/Hedman, but again, its pure speculation.

From what was more or less confirmed, I never heard about Tampa asking for anybody. Higgins, Pleks, and Gorges were what Gainey offered. We went ot them, they didn't come to us. I haven't seen any reliable source that they asked for Markov, but what Gainey himself seemed to suggest was that he offered those players and then rather than ask for mre, Tampa tried to start a bidding war by using their names.

Plus, if they consider Lecalvier to be a franchise player (which in itself is debateable) I don't think asking for Markov was completely out to lunch. I mean, it would be highly unlikely we'd do it, but I don't know on paper that it was ridiculous to ask for (if it happened).

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And Tampa needs a Markov/Gorges more then they need a Pleks/Higgins. Tampa's D is 1 or 2 2nd or 3rd pairing defensemen mixed with some AHL level guys, and unless Smith comes back from his concussion injury, that would be backed up by an AHL goalie and an ECHL backup.

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