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Saku Koivu


Kubby31
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Huh? I always remember him starting off being on pace for a great season of 100 points or at least PPG and slowing down later.

Yeah he wasn't a slow starter, he always got off to strong starts and cooled off, probably from wearing down at his size and high intensity level.

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6 pts in 6 games....

I figured he'd pick it up, he's always been a pretty slow starter.

I would say our new "big line" isn't much of an improvement on Koivu and they come with a much larger price tag.

Gomez - 10 pts

Cammy - 14 pts

Gionta - 10 pts

And Koivu has 8 - with quit the pay drop from those three.

Just a thought.

He's also playing on a team with the likes of some of the league's top young talents -- Getzlaf, Perry, Ryan, etc -- as well as Teemu.

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That's such a horrid comment to make, because it shows that you haven't took the time to look at Koivu's stats with the Habs, or care to make a knowledgeable comment regarding his skill.

He's 10th on the list for all time points with the Habs, his name ranks with players like Boom Boom, Shutt, Lemaire, Cournoyer, Robinson, Maurice and Henri Richard, Beliveau and Lafleur. Some of which, played more games with the Habs than Saku. BTW he had 641 points.

He's sixth on the all time roster for assists, the only ones in front of him - Lemaire, Robinson, Henri Richard, Beliveau and Lafleur.

And for being a playmaker, not a goal scorer, he's 27th for goals - again, among some of the teams best players.

Also, he's 7th on the team with game winning goals - with 35 of them.

So really, you bash him for lack of skill you're bashing some of the greats with this team.

Again, research before you post - he's done a lot for the City of Montreal off the ice, but he's held his own on the ice, especially for being a smaller player, plagued with injury.

He played almost 800 games with the habs and 13 seasons no wonder that he have those numbers, Saku is not a habs legend whatsoever.

If you think so, your out of it totally.

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He played almost 800 games with the habs and 13 seasons no wonder that he have those numbers, Saku is not a habs legend whatsoever.

If you think so, your out of it totally.

Not saying Koivu is a legend but look at the numbers of some of the guys in the top ten:

Gm G A P

1. Guy Lafleur 961 518 728 1246

2. Jean Béliveau 1125 507 712 1219

3. Henri Richard 1256 358 688 1046

4. Maurice Richard 978 544 421 965

5. Larry Robinson 1202 197 686 883

6. Yvan Cournoyer 968 428 435 863

7. Jacques Lemaire 853 366 469 835

8. Steve Shutt 871 408 368 776

9. Bernie Geoffrion 766 371 388 759

10. Elmer Lach 664 215 408 623

It's not like all the habs' legends were scoring more than a point a game. Koivu should at least be commended for his effort and work while carrying fairly weak teams on his back while many claim he should have just been a second line centre.

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Not saying Koivu is a legend but look at the numbers of some of the guys in the top ten:

Gm G A P

1. Guy Lafleur 961 518 728 1246

2. Jean Béliveau 1125 507 712 1219

3. Henri Richard 1256 358 688 1046

4. Maurice Richard 978 544 421 965

5. Larry Robinson 1202 197 686 883

6. Yvan Cournoyer 968 428 435 863

7. Jacques Lemaire 853 366 469 835

8. Steve Shutt 871 408 368 776

9. Bernie Geoffrion 766 371 388 759

10. Elmer Lach 664 215 408 623

It's not like all the habs' legends were scoring more than a point a game. Koivu should at least be commended for his effort and work while carrying fairly weak teams on his back while many claim he should have just been a second line centre.

Wow, crazy. I've never really looked at it before, but only Lafleur and Béliveau were technically PPG players over their careers.

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He played almost 800 games with the habs and 13 seasons no wonder that he have those numbers, Saku is not a habs legend whatsoever.

If you think so, your out of it totally.

I don't think Koivu is a Habs legend, but he deserves more credit than he's getting. It's not like he had the impact of Bonk or something.

And your GP referrence makes no sense. Lafleur played 961 games, Beliveau 1,125 games, Henri Richard, 1,256, the Rocket 978, Larry Robinson 1,202...Gainey played 1,160....

So you're saying that because they've played a lot of games with a lot of points and success it doesn't make them legends?

Say it about Koivu, you're saying it about those guys too.

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I believe sports is a bit blown out of proportion these days. There are a lot more important things in the world, but we hold athlete's and movie stars on a pedestal and pay them lots of money. IMO it doesn't matter if Koivu has the stats of a great player. If it's important to some people to have him acknowledged for the many years he spent as a Hab then I don't see any harm in doing so. He did put in a lot of time and effort during a bad period of Habs hockey where the management didn't do a whole lot to make the team better. Heck you could argue the Habs are still not moving in the right direction. They bring in more really small finesse players instead of trying to build through some top end players that have some grit to their game. Koivu at least played with grit to his game even though he was a small guy.

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I don't think Koivu is a Habs legend, but he deserves more credit than he's getting. It's not like he had the impact of Bonk or something.

And your GP referrence makes no sense. Lafleur played 961 games, Beliveau 1,125 games, Henri Richard, 1,256, the Rocket 978, Larry Robinson 1,202...Gainey played 1,160....

So you're saying that because they've played a lot of games with a lot of points and success it doesn't make them legends?

Say it about Koivu, you're saying it about those guys too.

These guys were game breaker players, yes they had better teams, but Saku was never a game breaker player.

That's just the way it is.

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It is hard to compare any players career in the post 1993 era to anyone playing in the 70s dynasty. For starters, Saku never had a decent set of linemates in his career, IMHO. Lafleur was great, but he also had Shutt and Lemaire to help him out. Robinson was great, but he had some awesome D-men with him in Lapointe and Savard. Dryden was great, but he had some great players in front of him too. etc, etc, etc

Saku was a ballsy captain for many years, did a lot for the community, was a consummate professional and deserves his jersey in the rafters. There are more things to consider than PPG.

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For starters, Saku never had a decent set of linemates in his career, IMHO.

I think this is overstated. Saku never really had great linemates but he played with Recchi early in his career for a few years then played with guys like Zednik, Ryder, Higgins, Kovalev, Tanguay for stretches. Definitely not great players but guys in the same class as him IMO, very good 2nd liners and fringe 1st liners.

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I think this is overstated. Saku never really had great linemates but he played with Recchi early in his career for a few years then played with guys like Zednik, Ryder, Higgins, Kovalev, Tanguay for stretches. Definitely not great players but guys in the same class as him IMO, very good 2nd liners and fringe 1st liners.

After Recchi, Saku never had a great linemate for any consistent stretch of time. Zednik and Higgins = mediocrity. Ryder = second-line chucker. Saku had Kovalev in the 03-04 playoffs, the start of 05-06, and then with Tanguay for a handful of games at the end of 08-09. He lit it up with them, but I just wonder what he could have done with them for a few years. He could have saved a lot of wear and tear on his body playing with skill players who could actually open up space for him.

What Gainey did for Gomez this summer -- go out and get help the best help he could find on the top line: his old running buddy (Gionta) and a top-line sniper just entering his physical prime -- he did not do once for Saku Koivu in six years as Habs GM. It was, is, and always will be a disgrace.

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Saku was a good second line center that played first line.

End of the story.

I think there was definitely a point in his career where he was a 1st line talent. I mean before his knee injury in 96-97 IMO he was on his way to being a top end type player but that injury took away a lot of his game breaking speed but I'd still say there was a 3-5 year period in the late 90's - the year he got back from cancer where you could do a lot worse than to have Saku Koivu on your first line.

I'm not a big Michael Ryder fan either, but I don't see how playing with him is an insult to Saku, I think at that point they were on the same level, good 2nd line guys who we tried to pretend were 1st line players.

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I think there was definitely a point in his career where he was a 1st line talent. I mean before his knee injury in 96-97 IMO he was on his way to being a top end type player but that injury took away a lot of his game breaking speed but I'd still say there was a 3-5 year period in the late 90's - the year he got back from cancer where you could do a lot worse than to have Saku Koivu on your first line.

I'm not a big Michael Ryder fan either, but I don't see how playing with him is an insult to Saku, I think at that point they were on the same level, good 2nd line guys who we tried to pretend were 1st line players.

Ryder was nothing beyond a fringe first line player who twice listed thirty goal seasons exact. He is in essence what is presently absent from the Habs roster; secondary scoring. Additionally his style of in nary complimented Saku due to a leisurely pace and with whom was in acceptance of the left winger role? Latendresse, Higgins primarily; where upon in Ryder Koivu possessed something of talent, such truth was distant for his additional linemates.

Provided with talent Koivu transfixed the league, evident by his short tenure with Tanguay and Kovalev with which took nigh the entirety of the season because held in consideration for a lineup. I wholeheartedly agree with Weep, Gainey appeased Gomez whilst leaving Koivu to play with faux first liners; an utter disgrace...

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Ryder never opened up space for Saku. He was just a chucker. At his best, he'd get the puck and shoot from dead-zone areas to score goals. At his worst, he'd get the puck and shoot from any angle without success. Higgins wasn't much better. Compare those two to Kovalev and Tanguay, who had enough skill, vision, and hockey sense to find Saku with crisp passes and open up space for him. Not only did it improve his productivity, but in that short time at the end of last season, I didn't see Saku having to take a pounding in the corners fighting guys twice his size because his linemates were unable to create on their own.

Essentially, Tanguay and Kovalev worked with Saku as an interchangeable three-man unit where anyone could start a play and anyone could finish it depending on the situation on the ice.

Was Saku only a second-line center? By the end of his time here, I'd say he was a great 1B center, no longer a first-line talent due to the wear and tear on his body. But Gainey could have avoided a lot of that wear and tear by getting the man proper linemates years before the last 20 games of 08-09.

And Gomez isn't a first-line center either. He's paid like one, but he isn't one.

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Weep, Saku is my hero you know that but post lockout Gomez has been a considerably better player than Saku has. A fair bit better offensively and any defensive metric will tell you Gomez has been superior there too. All the while Saku has been playing on better offensive teams, and racking up PP points playing on one of the best PP's in the game.

If you think Saku is a "great" 1B center I don't see how Gomez isn't atleast a 1st line center. Also, when you adjust the last contract Saku signed with us for cap inflation he was also paid as a 1st line center, actually basically what Gomez is being paid now yet there was no outrage at all. I'm confused by that. Is it Saku's stature?

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Weep, Saku is my hero you know that but post lockout Gomez has been a considerably better player than Saku has. A fair bit better offensively and any defensive metric will tell you Gomez has been superior there too. All the while Saku has been playing on better offensive teams, and racking up PP points playing on one of the best PP's in the game.

Better offensive teams? Apart from 07-08, during which Saku didn't even play on the first-unit PP most of the time, how has this team been anything but mediocre in total offense? In 06-07 and 08-09, we were at risk of having a defenceman lead our team in points (Souray, then Markov). Our top point producer in 05-06 and 08-09 was Kovalev at 65 points. In 06-07, Saku led the team with 75 points with frickin Ryder and Higgins as his linemates. Where is this 'better offense' and how did Saku benefit from it?

Gomez had his one big year in 05-06 under ideal circumstances with Gionta and Elias, then hit 70 points in 07-08 feeding Jaromir Jagr pucks. Even an aging Jagr is better than anything we gave Saku post-lockout until the brief foray with Tanguay and Kovalev. During the two seasons when Gomez wasn't surrounded by either upper-tier players or players who specifically meshed with him, he put up numbers very similar to Saku's numbers: 60 points in 06-07, 58 points in 08-09, and that's through more GP in each season than Saku.

Finally, I think Gomez's defensive skill is overrated. Sure, he's good on the back check, but he also turns the puck over like a maniac and his face-off skills fluctuate too wildly for my liking (some nights he'll slay at over 60%, other nights he'll get slaughtered at 40% or lower).

If you think Saku is a "great" 1B center I don't see how Gomez isn't atleast a 1st line center.

My bad. I should have amended my statement to read: Gomez is a poor first-line center.

Also, when you adjust the last contract Saku signed with us for cap inflation he was also paid as a 1st line center, actually basically what Gomez is being paid now yet there was no outrage at all. I'm confused by that. Is it Saku's stature?

Saku had given everything to this city, he was our captain, he was still not too far removed from his physical prime, and it was expected that he'd thrive playing with a guy like Kovalev. He had a history with the team. Who could have predicted that he'd spend most of his remaining time as a Hab babysitting kids instead of playing with players on his level who complement and augment his game? You know, the exact thing Gainey did for a total stranger (Gomez) this summer?

I'd love to see how Gomez, $7.3 cap hit and all, would have fared had we treated him the way we treated Saku.

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Better offensive teams? Apart from 07-08, during which Saku didn't even play on the first-unit PP most of the time, how has this team been anything but mediocre in total offense? In 06-07 and 08-09, we were at risk of having a defenceman lead our team in points (Souray, then Markov). Our top point producer in 05-06 and 08-09 was Kovalev at 65 points. In 06-07, Saku led the team with 75 points with frickin Ryder and Higgins as his linemates. Where is this 'better offense' and how did Saku benefit from it?

Gomez had his one big year in 05-06 under ideal circumstances with Gionta and Elias, then hit 70 points in 07-08 feeding Jaromir Jagr pucks. Even an aging Jagr is better than anything we gave Saku post-lockout until the brief foray with Tanguay and Kovalev. During the two seasons when Gomez wasn't surrounded by either upper-tier players or players who specifically meshed with him, he put up numbers very similar to Saku's numbers: 60 points in 06-07, 58 points in 08-09, and that's through more GP in each season than Saku.

Finally, I think Gomez's defensive skill is overrated. Sure, he's good on the back check, but he also turns the puck over like a maniac and his face-off skills fluctuate too wildly for my liking (some nights he'll slay at over 60%, other nights he'll get slaughtered at 40% or lower).

Well better offensive teams in the sense that the Canadiens have outscored every team Gomez has played on since the lockout, Devils in 05-06,06-07 and Rangers 07-08, 08-09 and had a better PP in every single one of those years. Saku logged huge minutes on the best PP in the league in 06-07 and did the bulk of his scoring on the PP that year (the best year he's ever had).

Since the lockout Saku has scored 47% of his points on the PP and he spent the bulk of that playing with the likes of Markov, Kovalev, Ryder, Souray, Tanguay, Streit. Some of the best PP players in the league post lockout. Twice we had the best PP in the NHL and in 05-06 it was very good, top 5-7 I believe.

You say Gomez had his year playing under ideal circumstances and I agree, Saku had the same, his 75 point season he played huge minutes on the best PP on the league and he scored an astonishing 57% of his points on the PP that year.

I just think we're talking about a player who's played on 1 of the 2-3 best PP's overall since the lockout, and scored 47% of his points there so that's a huge advantage over Scott. Gomez, like I said, has never played on a higher scoring or better power play team than Saku post lockout. Let's see when Markov gets back in the fold what kind of impact that has.

Scott Gomez is a better player than Saku Koivu, I prefer Saku, he's my favorite all time player but the facts are there. The contract isn't great, he's overpaid, but Saku was equally overpaid when he signed his contract and we managed to live with it. Gomez is a younger, better version and I think any stat/metric will continue to bare that fact out.

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anyone who says Saku wasnt a first line center before he got cancer really doesnt know what kind of player he really was and wasnt a fan of the team from 95-01

There are thousands of fans that don't think he was....but they are still big Hab fans.

He was good..always overrated though. Not a superstar some fans made him out to be that is for sure.

8 points in 15 games? not bad.

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