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There are thousands of fans that don't think he was....but they are still big Hab fans.

He was good..always overrated though. Not a superstar some fans made him out to be that is for sure.

Maybe not a superstar but definitely a legitimate top line guy IMO. I guess the only problem was you couldn't rely on 82 games from him at the time, but that was a product of his style and he learned to be smarter and pick his spots as he got older. The ability was definitely there though.

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You say Gomez had his year playing under ideal circumstances and I agree, Saku had the same, his 75 point season he played huge minutes on the best PP on the league and he scored an astonishing 57% of his points on the PP that year.

Ryder and Higgins were ideal circumstances? Hypothesize for a moment if with a faux first liner in Michael Ryder, accompanied by a third line checker at best Koivu amounted 75 points, what would his productivity have been centering Brian Gionta and Patrik Elias, Alex Tanguay and Alex Kovalev or Mike Cammalleri and Brian Gionta; actual first line caliber players. Is the assumption Saku Koivu could produce a season high similar or perhaps superior to that of Scott Gomez had he been allotted the same favor the aforementioned is now?

Contract wise, who was to believe Koivu would centre fringe players, a majority of whom held absolutely no business upon our first line (Latendresse, Higgins)? Additionally it shall remain my belief Saku's contract accommodated significantly more than his on ice production. His leadership quality, continued support toward the city of Montreal, perhaps even his dedication to the sport itself.

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Ryder and Higgins were ideal circumstances? Hypothesize for a moment if with a faux first liner in Michael Ryder, accompanied by a third line checker at best Koivu amounted 75 points, what would his productivity have been centering Brian Gionta and Patrik Elias, Alex Tanguay and Alex Kovalev or Mike Cammalleri and Brian Gionta; actual first line caliber players. Is the assumption Saku Koivu could produce a season high similar or perhaps superior to that of Scott Gomez had he been allotted the same favor the aforementioned is now?

Contract wise, who was to believe Koivu would centre fringe players, a majority of whom held absolutely no business upon our first line (Latendresse, Higgins)? Additionally it shall remain my belief Saku's contract accommodated significantly more than his on ice production. His leadership quality, continued support toward the city of Montreal, perhaps even his dedication to the sport itself.

Again, that year Saku did very little 5 on 5 scoring (29) points, he did basically all his work on the best PP in the game. Playing with the likes of Souray, Markov, Ryder who was deadly on the PP, one of the best PP scorers in club history actually and Kovalev who despite his good year had huge PP numbers.

So that's what I'd consider ideal, meanwhile Gomez played on a team ranked in the lower half of the NHL PP wise, let's put Gomez on that PP. When you're scoring almost 60% of your points on the PP and playing on one of the best PP's the NHL has seen in 5-6 years I'd consider that ideal.

His leadership likely did play a part, but his dedication to the sport? I hope, in a salary cap world Bob doesn't spend money based on dedication. From a dollar stand point if you're going to criticize the Gomez contract for on ice play than I don't see why the Saku deal got a pass? Personally I didn't have a problem with either, really, even if they were over market.

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I think there was definitely a point in his career where he was a 1st line talent. I mean before his knee injury in 96-97 IMO he was on his way to being a top end type player but that injury took away a lot of his game breaking speed but I'd still say there was a 3-5 year period in the late 90's - the year he got back from cancer where you could do a lot worse than to have Saku Koivu on your first line.

I'm not a big Michael Ryder fan either, but I don't see how playing with him is an insult to Saku, I think at that point they were on the same level, good 2nd line guys who we tried to pretend were 1st line players.

Saku could certainly play as a first line center, even in recent years, for stretches. The question is could he do it consistently? It seemed he always started out among the best centers not named Crosby, but as the season went on he slowed down and started putting up numbers more associated with a very good second line center.

Then again, he may not have looked so bad if we had a half decent second line to back him up more often.

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Saku could certainly play as a first line center, even in recent years, for stretches. The question is could he do it consistently? It seemed he always started out among the best centers not named Crosby, but as the season went on he slowed down and started putting up numbers more associated with a very good second line center.

Then again, he may not have looked so bad if we had a half decent second line to back him up more often.

Well during the latter part of his career, like I posted he did the majority of his scoring on the PP so by that point he was probably better suited as a number 2 center and PP guy but you could do worse than to play Saku on the first line the issue is like you mentioned him wearing down.

I'm not trying to bash Saku, he's definitely my favorite player, but I don't see anyway he's a better player than Gomez especially during the last 4-5 years and I'm saying that most had no problem with what Saku was making so I think we should atleast give Gomez a chance here.

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I'm not trying to bash Saku, he's definitely my favorite player, but I don't see anyway he's a better player than Gomez especially during the last 4-5 years

Statistically speaking, when I calculated their stats over the past 3 seasons (3 because I was trying to gauge value of Koivu's last contract) the two of them were almost identical.

Now people from either side could argue all day about linemates, team-wide issues, coverage by opposing teams, PP time, etc. But at a high level they were statistically almost identical over that time frame.

That said, there were some advantages with getting Gomez: one is he's 5 years younger. Even if they are the same player today, Koivu is probably getting close to the end of his career. Secondly, while over the past 3 years Koivu didn't actually miss that much time, I do feel a little bit less worried that Gomez will go down with an injury. Gomez also brings slightly more size to the table and I'm guessing may be a bit more consistent over the course of the season (don't ahve stats to back this up, I'm sure they exist somewhere).

But those things aside, end of the day he puts up a similar amount of points. I've felt the whole time it was largely a lateral move, one that was done probably because without a whole lot of depth at center in our organization, you don't want to put all your hopes in a guy who is approaching retirement age.

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anyone who says Saku wasnt a first line center before he got cancer really doesnt know what kind of player he really was and wasnt a fan of the team from 95-01

I'm a huge Koivu fan, but I don't think he was ever a first line centre.

IMO and his stats back this up, he had better seasons post-cancer, than before. Not to mention his career year (thus far) was after he returned from his knee and cancer.

I still miss this guy though.

The heart and soul of the team.

He didn't play last night. Is he injured? (or benched)? :o:lol:

Injury, they're not expecting him to miss much time tho.

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anyone who says Saku wasnt a first line center before he got cancer really doesnt know what kind of player he really was and wasnt a fan of the team from 95-01

If your Saying that Koivu was better than Vincent Damphousse during that period of time.... god knows what your smoking.

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Guest Kovy-27

I'm a die hard Habs fans but It's really hard to watch the team play these days.Saku had to go one day but it would have been more fun for me to watch the Habs with him in the line-up.Same goes for Kovalev,they where never the problem in my book.

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I'm a die hard Habs fans but It's really hard to watch the team play these days.Saku had to go one day but it would have been more fun for me to watch the Habs with him in the line-up.Same goes for Kovalev,they where never the problem in my book.

I agree.

I don't like this Habs team at all.

After Roy left I had this gap where I didn't really have a favourite player, then along came the zit-faced, young Koivu, he was my favourite since the day he took to the ice with the Habs.

Now that he's gone, I have that gap again, only I don't see any potentials to fill it.

Koivu wasn't the Rocket as far as skill goes, but he was the heart...

Kovalev, though I liked to bag on him, was exciting...

The current Habs team is like watching re-runs .... ohh, no one's gunna score, we have no heart, no flare, no one exciting, our d is going to cough the puck up and our goalies are going to continue to play average.

Sure Koivu isn't tearing it up with the Ducks, but at least he was fun to watch.

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I agree.

I don't like this Habs team at all.

After Roy left I had this gap where I didn't really have a favourite player, then along came the zit-faced, young Koivu, he was my favourite since the day he took to the ice with the Habs.

Now that he's gone, I have that gap again, only I don't see any potentials to fill it.

Koivu wasn't the Rocket as far as skill goes, but he was the heart...

Kovalev, though I liked to bag on him, was exciting...

The current Habs team is like watching re-runs .... ohh, no one's gunna score, we have no heart, no flare, no one exciting, our d is going to cough the puck up and our goalies are going to continue to play average.

Sure Koivu isn't tearing it up with the Ducks, but at least he was fun to watch.

I completly agree. I really miss Saku. He always worked hard, even when he was not feeling too good, and he was respected by his teamates. A great hockey player. Why did they let him go? :blink:

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Guest Kovy-27

I agree same thing here,my favorite are Plekanec,Cammelleri and Jaroslav Halak but whitout Koivu and even Kovalev its not the same.They should have kept atleast one of them,atleast it would have been easier for me to watch the Habs.Like I said,sure hope Koivu comes back because except fo the three players I mentionned,I really dont like this team either.

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The team looks dead without him.

No matter how bad our slump was or how crappy our team was, whenever Koivu hit the ice he gave 100 per cent and that was always exciting to watch.

Now the team looks sluggish, and when we're down by a couple goals our zillion dollar top line takes a holiday, while our "energy line" naps on the bench.

The Habs of 2009/2010 are a sad group of hockey players.

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The team looks dead without him.

No matter how bad our slump was or how crappy our team was, whenever Koivu hit the ice he gave 100 per cent and that was always exciting to watch.

Now the team looks sluggish, and when we're down by a couple goals our zillion dollar top line takes a holiday, while our "energy line" naps on the bench.

The Habs of 2009/2010 are a sad group of hockey players.

Yeah right, especially last year after the All-Star break this team looked so alive with Koivu in the lineup, I clearly remember how we where outshooting, outhustling, outworking and outscoring our opponents on a nightly basis. The icing on the cake was how we made the playoffs in such a convincing fashion, thanks to other teams losing while we just lost a little bit less. And the playoffs, how could I forget, how alive this team looked.

I respect Koivu a lot and he used to be one of my favorites on this team too but how about a reality check here? The Habs have been a mediocre hockey team for more than a decade with Koivu in the lineup. They've looked just a sluggish as the team looks right now with Koivu in the lineup. Other players besides Koivu gave 100 per cent and were exciting to watch too.

The Habs played bad hockey during the entire year of 2009 period, with and without Koivu in the lineup.

Edited by ChiLla
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Yeah right, especially last year after the All-Star break this team looked so alive with Koivu in the lineup, I clearly remember how we where outshooting, outhustling, outworking and outscoring our opponents on a nightly basis. The icing on the cake was how we made the playoffs in such a convincing fashion, thanks to other teams losing while we just lost a little bit less. And the playoffs, how could I forget, how alive this team looked.

I respect Koivu a lot and he used to be one of my favorites on this team too but how about a reality check here? The Habs have been a mediocre hockey team for more than a decade with Koivu in the lineup. They've looked just a sluggish as the team looks right now with Koivu in the lineup. Other players besides Koivu gave 100 per cent and were exciting to watch too.

The Habs played bad hockey during the entire year of 2009 period, with and without Koivu in the lineup.

While I do miss him the Habs have beed playing some bad hockey for a while now. Except for a year or two it hasen't been that great - playoff wise. Well except for beating Boston until last year.

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The Habs played bad hockey during the entire year of 2009 period, with and without Koivu in the lineup.

i dont dislike koivu but correct me if im wrong...didnt we have a nice win streak going when he was out of the line up last year...unless that was before 2009...which it might have been...lol

*waits to get e-attacked*

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