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fourtrax

Roman Hamrlik

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You know why the org is moving in a Gill direction? Because Hal Gill is an American whose first language is English, while Roman is a Czech.

I hate to say it, but the culture of this team is moving in the direction of North American players. European players, unless they're exceptionally important like Plekanec, are not part of the clique. So a guy like Gill, who provides little value outside the PK, is a guy we 'absolutely' have to have back, while a workhorse like Hamrlik, who basically carried this blueline the past two years in Markov's extended absence, is going to have to beg for a contract in the offseason.

Nobody ever went broke overestimating hockey players' inability to transcend their own cultural and ethnic barriers.

+1

I like Gill but if it comes down to him and Hammer, the choice is simple.

For two seasons he's had to play above expectations, often +25 minutes a night versus the best lines the opposition have to offer. I find it strange how he isn't more appreciated for the work he has done.

Edited by dwdemonwolf
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+1

I like Gill but if it comes down to him and Hammer, the choice is simple.

For two seasons he's had to play above expectations, often +25 minutes a night versus the best lines the opposition have to offer. I find it strange how he isn't more appreciated for the work he has done.

I think the answer is in what you quoted. Hamr is not North American. In addition the negative media exposure he received a couple of years ago has forever left a black mark against him in the eyes of some. That hasn't been forgotten and was even brought up again in this thread not long ago, sadly.

His game in general is not flashy at all so the good plays he makes fly under the radar. But each year he's gone out and collected points, blocked a ton of shots and played a ton of minutes moreso than any other d-man on the Habs roster since he's been here including the d's (Komisarek, Souray) that have moved on to other teams. Subban can rush the puck and dazzle only to fall on his backside and cough up the puck and that's cool. Gill iced the puck in game 6 about seven or eight times and that's okay. If Hamrlik had done either of those things fans would have been calling for his head on a platter. Well he didn't have to as many fans are/were already calling for his head on a platter because he took a spear in the throat.

By far he's received much more criticism than he has votes of confidence. And his care level for the organization has always been extremely high compared to what he's gotten in return.

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You know why the org is moving in a Gill direction? Because Hal Gill is an American whose first language is English, while Roman is a Czech.

I hate to say it, but the culture of this team is moving in the direction of North American players. European players, unless they're exceptionally important like Plekanec, are not part of the clique. So a guy like Gill, who provides little value outside the PK, is a guy we 'absolutely' have to have back, while a workhorse like Hamrlik, who basically carried this blueline the past two years in Markov's extended absence, is going to have to beg for a contract in the offseason.

Nobody ever went broke overestimating hockey players' inability to transcend their own cultural and ethnic barriers.

weep, you make a good observation but you don't know that for sure, none of us do.

and why would the team award him the unsung hero / 4th star award if they didn't recognize him? The D puzzle is complicated enough as it is, I dont think that adding nationality as another piece to fit in holds much weight

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weep, you make a good observation but you don't know that for sure, none of us do.

and why would the team award him the unsung hero / 4th star award if they didn't recognize him? The D puzzle is complicated enough as it is, I dont think that adding nationality as another piece to fit in holds much weight

I don't know anything for sure. I'm just expressing my opinion. But I don't think it's coincidence that, by and large, it's North American players referring to other NA players as great guys in the locker room. I mean, I like Gill, but when you have guys like Gorges saying that what Gill brings to this team is invaluable, and the player in question is an aging, immobile PK specialist who is mediocre at best in non-PK situations, you have to wonder: why isn't anyone talking about how Roman Hamrlik is invaluable for having shouldered the bulk of the D responsibility in two consecutive years due to Markov's injuries? Why isn't anyone talking about how we absolutely have to bring Hamrlik back? You know, the better player who is actually more important to the team's success on the ice? It's because Hal Gill speaks the team's language, both literally and idiomatically. He makes other North American players like Gorges, Gomez, Gionta, and Cammalleri feel more comfortable because he presents them with sameness. He's like them. They can relate to him because there is no language barrier, and no cultural gap. They don't have to work to communicate with him. He is an extension of their own cultural milieu, not an Other who asks them to stretch. And to be clear: I'm not saying anyone on the team is a bigot. I don't believe that. But prejudice isn't just Don Cherry in a clown suit ranting against European players. Prejudice, as distinct from bigotry, comes in many forms: the beliefs you hold unconsciously, the sorts of people you gravitate to, your level of comfort in situations when you can't rely on prior unspoken shared cultural norms to establish social intimacy.

In the past two years, on this team, the only time I have seen European players receive any kind of comparable locker-room support is if they're so obviously crucial to the team's success that nobody has any choice but to recognize them (for example, Plekanec, Halak). If you're European, you have to work twice as hard and be four times as good in order for your teammates to think of you as a 'great guy in the locker room.' If you're North American, you can be a marginal PK specialist and a liability at even strength, and your teammates will still say you're 'invaluable' on the strength of some phantom, unverifiable locker-room bond that, to my mind, is nothing but people of a certain ethnic and cultural background casting their vote for one of their own.

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weep, you make a good observation but you don't know that for sure, none of us do.

and why would the team award him the unsung hero / 4th star award if they didn't recognize him? The D puzzle is complicated enough as it is, I dont think that adding nationality as another piece to fit in holds much weight

That award is voted on by the media, isn't it?

IMO it was no coincidence that it was three European players who received the negative publicity a couple of years ago. Yet there were rumors surrounding other players. Nobody knows for sure what happened there either but nonetheless it was European players who were singled out.

What becomes a little troubling to me though is that this past year Subban was defended left and right by Habs' fans because they sensed racism in certain situations. And it's great they came to his defense but I have to wonder if those same fans are critical of European players like Hamrlik and Kostitsyn who also play for the Habs. Hamrlik gets speared in the throat and is accused by some of his own fanbase of flopping. Had that been Subban or Gill on the receiving end there would have been full support for those players IMHO.

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It's the same as Kesler/Plekanec. They're pretty much the same player (Pleks could certainly score 70+ points behind the Sedins), but Plekanec is a softspoken European, and Kesler's a 'good old American boy", so he gets all the credit.

I don't know how Gill is a "must have" guy for this team. Hamrlik is 4 times the player he is. That's not a knock on Gill, he's a good #5 guy, but Hamrlik is the far better player.

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It's the same as Kesler/Plekanec. They're pretty much the same player (Pleks could certainly score 70+ points behind the Sedins), but Plekanec is a softspoken European, and Kesler's a 'good old American boy", so he gets all the credit.

I don't know how Gill is a "must have" guy for this team. Hamrlik is 4 times the player he is. That's not a knock on Gill, he's a good #5 guy, but Hamrlik is the far better player.

You said it... Hammer is a better player for sure. But Gill is a better character... great leader, mentor, spokesman (with the media), etc. And on top of all... He's HUGE!!!! :D

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You said it... Hammer is a better player for sure. But Gill is a better character... great leader, mentor, spokesman (with the media), etc. And on top of all... He's HUGE!!!! :D

How is Gill a "great" leader? I know he likes the rah, rah college stuff and puts on a rah, rah show for the fans.

I'd say Hamrlik is a better on ice mentor than Hal Gill, especially when it comes to mentoring two way d-men, because that's the game Hamrlik has played.

Off ice I'd give the nod to Gill because culturally, as alluded to in another post, he can relate to most of the other players and he told PK to pick up his dirty laundry.

He's a better spokesman because he's good at the usual "lines". We didn't play well, blah, blah, blah.

So basically Gill is the rah, rah with the blah, blah. LOL

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It's the same as Kesler/Plekanec. They're pretty much the same player (Pleks could certainly score 70+ points behind the Sedins), but Plekanec is a softspoken European, and Kesler's a 'good old American boy", so he gets all the credit.

I don't know how Gill is a "must have" guy for this team. Hamrlik is 4 times the player he is. That's not a knock on Gill, he's a good #5 guy, but Hamrlik is the far better player.

yes Hamrlik adds more than Gill but its time for both to move on we need to move away from the old slow defenseman

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yes Hamrlik adds more than Gill but its time for both to move on we need to move away from the old slow defenseman

Hamrlik would be the perfect compliment to Subban on a second pairing behind a 1st pairing anchored by Markov.

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Hamrlik would be the perfect compliment to Subban on a second pairing behind a 1st pairing anchored by Markov.

only way Roman is brought back is if hes going to be a 5th defenseman playing 15mins a night not playing with Subban doing 25mins a night

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How is Gill a "great" leader? I know he likes the rah, rah college stuff and puts on a rah, rah show for the fans.

I'd say Hamrlik is a better on ice mentor than Hal Gill, especially when it comes to mentoring two way d-men, because that's the game Hamrlik has played.

Off ice I'd give the nod to Gill because culturally, as alluded to in another post, he can relate to most of the other players and he told PK to pick up his dirty laundry.

He's a better spokesman because he's good at the usual "lines". We didn't play well, blah, blah, blah.

So basically Gill is the rah, rah with the blah, blah. LOL

-Gill wears the ''A'' despite being a mediocre player. Is the ''A'' just for show? O_O

-Apparently, Georges and Subban (?) learned a lot from Gill. At least that's what they said... Just because you're good doesn't mean you know how to teach.

-Personality is part of hockey these days. Ever wondered what would happen if we had 23 AK xD

But really, I didn't read much stuff about Hammer. The only thing I remember is him saying how he finally feels like a true veteran now that there are younger players who seek him for help.

In any case, it'd be great to have either Gill or Hammer back next year.

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-Gill wears the ''A'' despite being a mediocre player. Is the ''A'' just for show? O_O

-Apparently, Georges and Subban (?) learned a lot from Gill. At least that's what they said... Just because you're good doesn't mean you know how to teach.

-Personality is part of hockey these days. Ever wondered what would happen if we had 23 AK xD

But really, I didn't read much stuff about Hammer. The only thing I remember is him saying how he finally feels like a true veteran now that there are younger players who seek him for help.

In any case, it'd be great to have either Gill or Hammer back next year.

You posted Gill was a "great" leader. I would think "greatness" would warrant the "C" instead of just an "A". I mean even Hamrlik has worn the "A". ;)

Gorges and Subban both complimented Hamrlik as well, Gorges complimented as soon as Hamrlik arrived.

Personality? You mean the corny jokes? Good grief - please tell me the Habs are not paying a couple of mil for the fans to hear corny jokes.

Maybe you're not aware that Hamrlik mentored Phaneuf - it's pretty well documented. And at least during the games I attended there was plenty of communication between Hamrlik and his teammates - probably moreso than Gill. And Hamrlik IMHO would be better than Gill on the ice especially when it comes to a two way game because Gill DOES NOT have a two way game at all. He has no offensive instincts so I highly doubt he'd be able to "teach" them. Subban absolutely needs a better partner than Hal Gill.

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I think Hammer is wonderful,he has carried the team along with Carey all year,he can still skate fast and he has good hands.I don't see him as old or slow,some of the best D in the league are older than Hammer,I know he doesn't score a lot,but he scored one of the most important goals for our team this season when he broke the drought.

I don't think his place of birth really has anything to do with how the team treats him,I don't think it matters at all in the locker room,the locker room is a very transient place with people coming and going all the time and is always a mixed bag of nationalities,there just wouldn't be time for anything like that,the media and the fans are a different matter,but I don't really think that it's there,fans and the media always pick the worst parts to highlight,of any one persons game.

That being said Hammer really wants to stay here and has said he would take a pay cut to stay,he has always been an asset to our team and gives as much as anybody else or even more,if you look at the past 2 seasons this guy has done us proud and there is still a lot more in the bag,he has been tireless for this team,I think we owe him in a big way.Why would he want to stay so badly if he wasn't an integral part of the team on and off the ice.

As for what happened a couple of years ago that was a load of rubbish,why anybody should bring that up is beyond me,it was just the media doing it's thing and if you believe anything the media says,well enough said.

But I for one votes he stays

GO HAMMER GO :lol: :lol:

Edited by maddienmike
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i would bring him back at an extreme pay cut and bottom pair role, thats the only way

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I don't know anything for sure. I'm just expressing my opinion. But I don't think it's coincidence that, by and large, it's North American players referring to other NA players as great guys in the locker room. I mean, I like Gill, but when you have guys like Gorges saying that what Gill brings to this team is invaluable, and the player in question is an aging, immobile PK specialist who is mediocre at best in non-PK situations, you have to wonder: why isn't anyone talking about how Roman Hamrlik is invaluable for having shouldered the bulk of the D responsibility in two consecutive years due to Markov's injuries? Why isn't anyone talking about how we absolutely have to bring Hamrlik back? You know, the better player who is actually more important to the team's success on the ice? It's because Hal Gill speaks the team's language, both literally and idiomatically. He makes other North American players like Gorges, Gomez, Gionta, and Cammalleri feel more comfortable because he presents them with sameness. He's like them. They can relate to him because there is no language barrier, and no cultural gap. They don't have to work to communicate with him. He is an extension of their own cultural milieu, not an Other who asks them to stretch. And to be clear: I'm not saying anyone on the team is a bigot. I don't believe that. But prejudice isn't just Don Cherry in a clown suit ranting against European players. Prejudice, as distinct from bigotry, comes in many forms: the beliefs you hold unconsciously, the sorts of people you gravitate to, your level of comfort in situations when you can't rely on prior unspoken shared cultural norms to establish social intimacy.

In the past two years, on this team, the only time I have seen European players receive any kind of comparable locker-room support is if they're so obviously crucial to the team's success that nobody has any choice but to recognize them (for example, Plekanec, Halak). If you're European, you have to work twice as hard and be four times as good in order for your teammates to think of you as a 'great guy in the locker room.' If you're North American, you can be a marginal PK specialist and a liability at even strength, and your teammates will still say you're 'invaluable' on the strength of some phantom, unverifiable locker-room bond that, to my mind, is nothing but people of a certain ethnic and cultural background casting their vote for one of their own.

Not that I disagree with what you're saying about the more subtle brand of prejudice (not just in hockey, but everywhere), but I tend to agree with Maddie as well that in this case it may not be as prevalent in the locker room as it appears from the newspaper articles. Maybe it is, we don't really know, but keep in mind that everything that we hear first passes through a filter.

The media loves "stories", especially in a place like Montreal where hockey gobbles up so much airtime that there's no way that there's enough legitimate news to actually fill it. Just think of how many people there are writing Habs columns in Montreal papers alone. You've also got your internet journalists, your internet "journalists", your sports show analysts, your antichambre talking heads... it just goes on and on and on, and there's no way that each one of them is going to be able to write the same article about last night's game or the latest signing or whatever. So they make up stories to sell their papers.

And I don't mean they make them up as in they completely fabricate things that didn't happen ("Darkest Day in Habs History" excluded <_<) but instead they take a minor detail and spin it and expand upon it until it sounds interesting. They then repeat it over and over and over until it's basically considered true. Whenever something happens to contradict their angle it's ignored or barely mentioned, whatever happens that affirms it is given a front page headline. They sell it to their readers so that we can all nod our heads in agreement while waiting to buy the next column telling us more things that we want to hear.

Kovalev (our most consistent scorer over the full season most of his years here) is inconsistent and lazy. Sergei Kostytsin is always a disrespectful punk. Don't believe me? Well the coach yelled at him in practice, so there ya go. Hamrlik runs with the Mob. Price spands all his free time smoking and drinking (funny how that one went away this year). Subban is a disrespectful rookie. Subban is constantly being blamed for being a disrespectful rookie when he's not. MAB is a great D-man being held back by lack of ice time who should be re-signed. (He's also francophone, you say? Why, I hadn't noticed!). Chara is full of pure bloodlust and plays only to injure our guys with no feelings of remorse. Cammy and Gionta would never have agreed to sign with this team if it wasn't for Gomez.

Easy-to-interview Mr.Funny-Man Hal Gill is a great teacher of easy-to-interview Mr.Sound-Byte PK Subban and easy-to-interview Mr.Heart-and-Soul Josh Gorges.

And who's to say that it's not true? I'd say that my last statement and probably some of the other ones on that list are true, some to varying degrees. But my point is that Gill-the-teacher is an interesting story that people (myself included) enjoy reading about. I like Hal Gill, and I love his sense of humour. When I see a Hal Gill quote, I read it. So when Gorges says something about how Gill is invaluable it gets printed. It fits the established way of thinking. If Tommy Pyatt goes on a ten minute rant about how much Hamrlik means to the team, chances are that nobody's going to print it. Chances are that nobody's even going to stand there listening past the two-minute mark. As far as the newspapers are concerned, who's going to want to read that? It just isn't as media-friendly.

Now again Weep, I'm not discounting at all what you wrote. You'll notice that in the list of stories that came off the top of my head the ones that centred around Europeans trended significantly more towards the negative. But this corroborates both what you were saying and what I was saying: people like to hear information that confirms what they perceive to be true. People are more likely to read and enjoy a column about the lazy Russian than a statistical analysis that shows the contrary. But there's nothing to show that the feelings in the dressing room, or in the head office, actually mirror what we hear about in the media.

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Also: I know that what I just wrote is already a novel of a post, but I wanted to add one more thing about prejudices in the dressing room and Hamrlik specifically. Hammer's been around for a while, and anytime you see him interviewed he always seems like a pretty easy-going guy with a good sense of humour himself. It's one thing to gravitate towards culturally similar people, but I think there does come a point where once you know someone well enough you can move past it, even subconsciously.

I grew up in a smallish town in Nova Scotia which was about as ethnically diverse as you would picture a smallish Nova Scotian town to be :P. When I went to school I took engineering and about two thirds of my class was comprised of international students, most of South- or East-Asian decent. (I realize that that in itself sounds like a stereotype, but in the sample size of 1 that was my class it was actually true :P). Now I didn't ever really consider myself to be particularly predjudiced or anything, and we all got along great, but the fact was that for the first few years the various ethnic groups tended to stay mostly within themselves when it came to hanging out outside of class. It's like you said, Weep: nothing against anyone else, but we just had shared experiences, we had more similar likes/dislikes, etc.

After a few years you tend to mix together a little more, though, whether as lab partners or group members or whatever. And now that I'm done, who do I keep in touch most with from school? A guy from Pakistan and a guy from Israel. I basically discovered in the long run that I had more in common with them, and once you know an individual well stereotypes are less likely to affect how you view them.

Now I'm not trying to blow my own horn as some sort of prejudice-free saint or something, because I'm not. When I go to a busy Pakistani restaraunt with my buddy and I'm the only white guy there I feel uncomfortable. Nobody does anything to make me uncomfortable, mind you, but like you said: it's just not my element. But the point of all this is that even if people are prejudiced by nature that prejudice is much more prevalent before you get to know someone as an individual. Getting to know a person may not take away your predjudices about that group, but I feel that it does take them away about that person. Relating this back to hockey and my original point, I think that with the amount of time they spend together Gorges and Cammy and Gomez and all the rest must know Hamrlik pretty well by now. I doubt that any European vs Canadian bias that they have is very strong compared with their knowledge of Roman himself.

For the media, however, it's another story...

Edited by Manatee-X
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I think both Weep and Manatee make valid points about the locker room and the backgrounds of players in it, and I don't think either of you are wrong. I too wouldn't be surprised that Gill is deemed a better leader partially because it's easier for him to be a communicator than it is Hamrlik. But even if part of that is cultural, I don't think it means we can just discount what Hal Gill brings as a team leader or motivator just because the odds are in his favor. Part of being a captain or alternate captain is being able to communicate effectively with your teammates, coaches, media, and on-ice officials, and Gill seems to be good at all of those things. It doesn't mean Hamrlik is bad at them, but he certainly has more obstacles to overcome. In terms of on ice play, there's no doubt Hamrlik is the better all-around player, but I was very impressed with the job Hal Gill did partnering Subban this year too, and while some might discount intangibles as being less important because we can't measure them, both Subban and Gorges have said they have trust in Gill and that he has helped them immensely with their games. Again, this doesn't mean Roman hasn't been helpful to some of our young players either, but Gill and PK obviously have good chemistry, not just because they say it, but because we can see this from the way they play on the ice. In a lot of the games down the stretch, you could see them adjusting to one another's positioning, with one guy stepping up to take a rusher and the other guy collapsing towards the net or with one guy filtering an attacker along the board into the other guy, etc. They really did work well as a team.

Now I am among those who like what both players brought to our team this year, but I also feel like we can't bring both back in if we want to improve our D. Especially if Spacek is back, we are stuck with him, Gorges, and likely Markov already along the left side, so I don't think there's room for two more guys there. If indeed the decision comes down to Gill vs. Hamrlik, as many think it will, then Hamrlik's overall play, vision on the ice, and utility at both ends have to be factors. But so too does Gill's partnership of Subban, his ability to play bigger minutes for a full season, his work on the PK, and the fact that he would likely command a lower salary, potentially allowing us to shore up another spot as well. I don't know the right answer to the debate, but I don't think it is as cut and dry as saying Hamrlik is the better on-ice player end of story. Maybe neither of them make it back, but it will certainly be a tough decision for PG any way you cut it.

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Couldnt we always wait a little into July 1st with Gill/Hammer, I doubt the demand for aging defenseman would be incredibly high, Hammer is 38 and needs to play 3rd/4th dman around 15 mins per night. Gill is 4th or lower playing mostly PK. Im sure if we hold out a little to test what other UFA's we can attract, Gill and/or Hamrlik will still be available and willing to sign if we can not attract another defender.

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Couldnt we always wait a little into July 1st with Gill/Hammer, I doubt the demand for aging defenseman would be incredibly high, Hammer is 38 and needs to play 3rd/4th dman around 15 mins per night. Gill is 4th or lower playing mostly PK. Im sure if we hold out a little to test what other UFA's we can attract, Gill and/or Hamrlik will still be available and willing to sign if we can not attract another defender.

The Habs will sign the brown nosing Gill for peanuts before July 1st. He's the rah rah, marketable type that some of the influential media just adores which results in the popularity you see with the majority of the fans.

Hamrlik winning the Jacques Beauchamp trophy was interesting. At least the majority of the media realized Hamrlik's been working his backside off for two years now and deserved some recognition. But there were still the naysayers. I had to laugh when some jack gas media type had the audacity to ask Hamrlik if he thought he deserved the trophy. I wish Hamrlik would have asked that reporter if he really thought he deserved to be in the lockerroom. Probably was a Gill "promoter" that asked the question. Anyway, had that award been voted by the fans Hamrlik would not have even made the list.

Hamrlik has been the blue collar guy while Gill is the white collar guy. Hamrlik successfully mentors an inexperienced Subban through last year's playoffs and gets little or no credit even though that pairing had the best +/- and scored the most points. Gill is perceived as a great mentor because he was Subban's partner by default more than anything and gives bear hugs to the opposition. In the mean time his perceived defensive prowess earns him the 2nd worst + / - and close to the bottom of the barrel for the second straight year. Hamrlik helps Gorges along for three years and Gill partners with Gorges for a year and is a hero for Gorges' improved play even though Gorges had been improving all along. Hamrlik carries the team on his back defensively for two straight years while Gill preserves himself for the playoffs. Gill's plus / minus and points in relation to TOI is pretty telling in that respect. Hamrlik becomes the goat while playing with a one armed partner and Gill is the playoff hero because he's shielded by a superstar in the making.

I hope the Habs don't screw Hamrlik. If Hamrlik is not a priority to them then the least the Habs could do is give him permission to negotiate with other teams ASAP. He deserves that at least. If he's still on the Habs list come July 1st then it can be Hamrlik's decision as to what he wants to do. If the Habs have no interest then Hamrlik at least will have some options. He's a workhorse, proven mentor and skilled player. He'd be a great option for a young defence. He's held the Habs D together since he's been a Hab. Hamrlik has been shortchanged by the majority of the fans in every respect and has never complained.

My best guess is Hamrlik's agent instructed Roman to get aggressive through the media and at least put some pressure on the Habs to give him consideration. Let them know he's willing to take a pay cut and play a lesser role he's perfectly capable of performing. I would also surmise that when Hamrlik is gone we'll have no idea what he was willing to play for because Hamrlik has too much class.

Koivu, Kovalev, Sergei Kostitsyn................Hamrlik? They all have something in common besides each having a "K" in each of their names. So now the Habs will have Gomez, Dustin Boyd, Mike Cammalleri and Hal Gill. If they had to play four on four I kinda like the chances of the former moreso than the latter. LOL I hate to throw Halak in there too but I have to wonder if it made that choice easier.

That pretty much summarizes what another poster was alluding to in a previous post. There's a definite pattern developing.

Edited by wheresthepuck
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I'm really hoping that Gauthier ignores the locker room this summer and prioritizes Hamrlik over Gill. In every situation outside the PK, Hamrlik is vastly superior to Gill: offense, puck movement, general 5-on-5 play, physicality. I'm sure Hamrlik would have looked scads better in the playoffs paired with Subban instead of a one-armed Wisniewski, and if he hadn't been forced into the no. 1 d-man role for a second consecutive year because of injuries to Markov.

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I'm really hoping that Gauthier ignores the locker room this summer and prioritizes Hamrlik over Gill. In every situation outside the PK, Hamrlik is vastly superior to Gill: offense, puck movement, general 5-on-5 play, physicality. I'm sure Hamrlik would have looked scads better in the playoffs paired with Subban instead of a one-armed Wisniewski, and if he hadn't been forced into the no. 1 d-man role for a second consecutive year because of injuries to Markov.

If the Habs opt-out of signing Markov, can we expect Hamrlik to log top minutes once again as a top-four?

I agree that a Hamrlik-Subban pairing is still a very good combination 5 on 5 and even on the powerplay. Perhaps his time playing 5 on 5 can be split with another somehow.

Overall I look at Hamrlik as being a better investment than Markov the last three seasons.

Edited by Habs_Hockey_Nutz
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If the Habs opt-out of signing Markov, can we expect Hamrlik to log top minutes once again as a top-four?

I agree that a Hamrlik-Subban pairing is still a very good combination 5 on 5 and even on the powerplay. Perhaps his time playing 5 on 5 can be split with another somehow.

Overall I look at Hamrlik as being a better investment than Markov the last three seasons.

I want to be clear. Hamrlik is not a no. 1 defenseman. He has done an admirable job of stepping into the breach the past two years when Markov has gone down. Kudos to him for that. But we'll never get anywhere with a 37-year-old Hammer in the no. 1 role. I agree with you that Hamrlik can still be a good top-four d-man, but only if he's playing behind three legitimate top-three players. He's too old to log heavy minutes night after night effectively.

If Markov and Gauthier can't reach an agreement, all bets are off as to what our blueline will look like next year. We'll have to be prepared to spend significantly in free agency just to ice a competent blue line, let alone build a contender.

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Hammer has been a hero the last 2 seasons,I think the club owes him,he has said he will take a pay cut to stay here,every one keeps saying he is getting slow,but he is still an amazing skater,when you spend more time on the ice than the rest of the team,you have to keep some energy for the third,but he still does some wonderful skating and gets some timely goals like breaking the drought,I think he is the most under appreciated player on our team by the fans.He deserves to stay here as much as anybody.

GO HAMMER GO :lol: :lol:

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I'm really hoping that Gauthier ignores the locker room this summer and prioritizes Hamrlik over Gill. In every situation outside the PK, Hamrlik is vastly superior to Gill: offense, puck movement, general 5-on-5 play, physicality. I'm sure Hamrlik would have looked scads better in the playoffs paired with Subban instead of a one-armed Wisniewski, and if he hadn't been forced into the no. 1 d-man role for a second consecutive year because of injuries to Markov.

Agreed. Hammer as a #4 or #5 dman would be a great situation. That requires us having 3 or 4 defensmen better than him, who will get more ice time though. I dont want to resign him at $2m per year and them play him 20-25 minutes a night again.

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