[HABS_MANIACS]

jedimaas, le 14 May 2012 - 03:29 PM, dit :

F/O value is so overrated. dont get me wrong, I dont want some 40% guy but comparing the 2 you've mentioned to Plekanec, we're looking at winning 3 - 4 more faceoffs out of every 100. Is that alone really going to make a huge difference in the W column? I dont think so.

Its also about Size ... win a face off or lose it then stop the other team attack

[roy_133]

jedimaas, on 14 May 2012 - 03:29 PM, said:

F/O value is so overrated. dont get me wrong, I dont want some 40% guy but comparing the 2 you've mentioned to Plekanec, we're looking at winning 3 - 4 more faceoffs out of every 100. Is that alone really going to make a huge difference in the W column? I dont think so.

Dead on, it's VERY overrated. Unless you're dealing in extremes (as in, REALLY bad or REALLY amazing) the difference is negligible, especially when of those 3-4 more faceoff wins per 100 a couple are likely to be in the neutral zone or just general low leverage situations. It's nice if a good player you have is also an ace in the faceoff circle but you don't value a player significantly higher or lower based on it.

[grecohab]

HABS_MANIACS, on 14 May 2012 - 10:10 AM, said:

We need a major change so let's work it

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Trades

Plekanec + Bourque + Pateryn + MTL 2nd round pick 2012

VS

Cogliano + Lydman + Bobkov + Ana 1st round pick 2012

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Eller + Ana 1st round pick 2012 + MacMillan

VS

Jordan Staal + Pitt 3rd round pick 2012

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Diaz + Palushaj + Pitt 3rd round pick 2012

VS

Chris Stewart + STL 3rd round pick 2012

-------------------------------------------------------------------



TEAM : 57.553 + 3.523 = 61.076/ estimate 69.000 to 72.000
254 goals projected

FOWARD : 27.345

Cole Staal Gionta
[4.500] [4.000] [5.000]
(6f02 205lbs) (6f04 215lbs) (5f07 175lbs)
-------- 51.0%FO -------
35 goals - 25 goals - 25 goal

Pacioretty Desharnais Stewart
[1.625] [0.850] [3.250]
(6f01 203lbs) (5f07 177lbs) (6f01 228lbs)
-------- 49.4%FO -------
35 goals - 20 goals - 20 goal

Leblanc Cogliano Moen
[1.170] [2.390] [1.850]
(6f00 178lbs) (5f10 185lbs) (6f02 215lbs)
-------- 42.0%FO -------
10 goals - 15 goal - 10 goal

Staubitz Konopka White
[0.600] [0.850] [0.650]
(6f01 210lbs) (6f00 209lbs) (6f00 200lbs)
-------- 58.8%FO -------
1 goals - 5 goals - 3 goals

Blunden
[0.610]

D-MAN : 23.225

Markov Gorges
[5.750] [3.900]
(6f00 204lbs) (6f01 190lbs)
10 goals - 6goal

Subban Lydman
[3.500] [3.000]
(6f00 206lbs) (6f01 202lbs)
15 goals - 5 goal

Emelin Kaberle
[1.350] [4.250]
(6f00 187lbs) (6f01 214lbs)
4 goals - 6 goals

Weber St-Denis
[0.850] [0.625]
(5f11 193lbs) (5f11 190lbs)
3 goals - 1 goal

GOALIES : 6.983

Price
(6f03 219lbs)
[5.833]

Budaj
(6f01 200lbs)
[1.150]

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Draft

3rd Overall : Galchenyuk

-------------------------------------------------------------------

July 1st :

Sign Konopka to a 0.850 2 years deal

-------------------------------------------------------------------

home RFA's :

Stewart : 3.250 for 3 years
White : 0.650 for 2 years
Staubitz : 0.600 for 3 years
Blunden : 0.610 for 1 year
Subban : 3.5 for 4 years (home discount)
Emelin : 1.350 for 3 years
St-Denis : 0.625 for 3 years
Price : 5.833 for 6 years (home discount)

home UFA's :

Moen : 1.850 for 2 years

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Extensions

Staal : 4.500 + 4.500 + 5.000 + 5.500 + 6.000 + 6.000 = 31.000 or [5.166.667] on cap hit
Pacioretty : 3.000 + 3.000 + 3.000 + 3.750 + 4.000 + 4.250 = 21.000 or [3.500] on cap hit
Desharnais : 2.000 + 3.500 + 3.500 + 3.500 + 4.000 + 4.250 = 20.750 or [3.458.333] on cap hit

-------------------------------------------------------------------

2013-14 (with extension)

Foward : 12 foward at 32.384
D-man : 7 d-man at 22.375
1 goaler at 5.833
Buy out 4.523
total 2013-14 : 65.115 and 3 players to sign (probably prospect) ... must say that the cap will be a 70 probably !

Congratulations for the effort and time you spend, to put this together. Interesting ideas and propositions, no doubt, and believe me its not as easy at it seems. I assume you would like some other thoughts on this propositions, perhaps an outsider like me. Generally, its not that common to trade too many bodies at once, but my evaluation is going to be trade by trade.

The first trade includes a package that if slightly modified, can land us Ryan himself, and that is more important than the 6th overall, i guess.

The second trade is something i think that the Penguins would turn down. If the are willing to move Staal, they'll shop him hard and the return would be better than Eller+McMillan+6th overall.

The third trade, if analyzed, is basically a swap of 3rd rounders, and Diaz+Palushaj for Stewart. First off all why would the Blues be interested in regaining Palushaj? Secondly both Diaz and Palushaj is an offer easily outbidden by any other offer for Stewart's services, and i think there will be many of them.

Again, just my personal thoughts, nice try, nice thinking, keep up the suggestions, this is exactly what this thread is all about.

[BeanCountingHab]

I've been thinking more and more lately: while everyone else gets in a bidding war for Suter, I'd like to see us make a play for Carle.

Carle - Subban
Markov - Gorges
Kaberle - Emelin
Diaz

Not bad, especially if Emelin continues to improve and Kaberle has any kind of bounceback whatsoever in his defensive play.

[Noob616]

BeanCountingHab, on 15 May 2012 - 09:56 AM, said:

I've been thinking more and more lately: while everyone else gets in a bidding war for Suter, I'd like to see us make a play for Carle.

Carle - Subban
Markov - Gorges
Kaberle - Emelin
Diaz

Not bad, especially if Emelin continues to improve and Kaberle has any kind of bounceback whatsoever in his defensive play.

That's an attractive option. It gives us 4 legitimate top-4 guys, and Emelin knocking on the door in case someone falters or gets injured. I think Carle and Suter aren't as far apart as the general consensus seems to be. I'd be happy if we locked Carle up for under 5.5M

[BeanCountingHab]

Noob616, on 15 May 2012 - 11:02 AM, said:

That's an attractive option. It gives us 4 legitimate top-4 guys, and Emelin knocking on the door in case someone falters or gets injured. I think Carle and Suter aren't as far apart as the general consensus seems to be. I'd be happy if we locked Carle up for under 5.5M

I agree; I think the market value separating them is less than the actual separation. Suter will command about $2M more on the open market IMHO because he's viewed as the top guy out there.

[Nine1One]

BTW according to emelin's agent he wants to sign a long term deal in MTL.

[East_Coast_Juggalo_13]

So according to TSN.ca: http://tsn.ca/nhl/te...e=nhl-canadiens

"As the New Jersey Devils are preparing for the Eastern Conference Final, assistant coach Larry Robinson may have his eye on something further down the line.

Robinson's agent Don Cape told La Presse on Wednesday that the former Canadiens defenceman is open to a possible return to Montreal in some capacity and would be ready to listen to an offer."

Is this a possible head coaching candidate? If so, this could be a potential UFA signing for MTL:

Martin Brodeur.

Could Martin Brodeur be persuaded to sign on as a 30-35 game mentor to Carey Price. And who better to mentor Carey Price than the man who's arguably the greatest goalie of all time...The other half of that argument is Patrick Roy. Who better to teach Price how to get to that next level then the man who`s been that next level which other goalies are measured by.

So asuming you can persuade him, what is the price tag? Could he come for 2.5 mil? Most likely not. But with a name like Larry Robinson in play, it doesn't sound entirely unrealistic. And who knows maybe if you even say to Brodeur: ``We see you as our future goalie coach.``; he might be persuaded to sign.

Definitely interested on hearing peoples thoughts.

[hatethoseleafs]

Nine1One, on 15 May 2012 - 02:30 PM, said:

BTW according to emelin's agent he wants to sign a long term deal in MTL.

I'd prefer to see another year of him first however, i wouldn't object if the term and money is right. I like what i've seen so far and he could get expensive later.

[hatethoseleafs]

East_Coast_Juggalo_13, on 15 May 2012 - 02:34 PM, said:

So according to TSN.ca: http://tsn.ca/nhl/te...e=nhl-canadiens

"As the New Jersey Devils are preparing for the Eastern Conference Final, assistant coach Larry Robinson may have his eye on something further down the line.

Robinson's agent Don Cape told La Presse on Wednesday that the former Canadiens defenceman is open to a possible return to Montreal in some capacity and would be ready to listen to an offer."

Is this a possible head coaching candidate? If so, this could be a potential UFA signing for MTL:

Martin Brodeur.

Could Martin Brodeur be persuaded to sign on as a 30-35 game mentor to Carey Price. And who better to mentor Carey Price than the man who's arguably the greatest goalie of all time...The other half of that argument is Patrick Roy. Who better to teach Price how to get to that next level then the man who`s been that next level which other goalies are measured by.

So asuming you can persuade him, what is the price tag? Could he come for 2.5 mil? Most likely not. But with a name like Larry Robinson in play, it doesn't sound entirely unrealistic. And who knows maybe if you even say to Brodeur: ``We see you as our future goalie coach.``; he might be persuaded to sign.

Definitely interested on hearing peoples thoughts.

Too many if's or and's IMO.
Not saying it couldn't happen but all the info and rumours out there tend to dismiss this report. I haven't heard anything to indicate that Larry is even a consideration (baseless rumours so far IMO). Secondly,,,our back up is signed for next year. Thirdly,,,,if Jersey wins it all this year i would imagine Marty retires a winner. If he does come back, i would count on it being as a Devil. I imagine he wouldn't chose to play in Montreal for backup money, and we have a few holes to spend money on before goaltending.

[weepingminotaur]

LOL, who would want Brodeur in Montreal? Overrated, over-the-hill. His technique has gone down the tube in the past couple of years.

[hatethoseleafs]

weepingminotaur, on 15 May 2012 - 02:46 PM, said:

LOL, who would want Brodeur in Montreal? Overrated, over-the-hill. His technique has gone down the tube in the past couple of years.

I can think of a few in the French media.

[LeFreshMaker]

weepingminotaur, on 15 May 2012 - 02:46 PM, said:

LOL, who would want Brodeur in Montreal? Overrated, over-the-hill. His technique has gone down the tube in the past couple of years.

He may be washed up, but

a) I think he's better than Budaj

b ) He could really help Carey become even better.

c) Lots of experience

d) with a lighter work load, could really be useful in the playoffs.


That's my take on it, what does everyone else think?

This post has been edited by LeFreshMaker: Yesterday, 03:00 PM

[Manatee-X]

LeFreshMaker, on 15 May 2012 - 02:59 PM, said:

He may be washed up, but

a) I think he's better than Budaj

b ) He could really help Carey become even better.

c) Lots of experience

d) with a lighter work load, could really be useful in the playoffs.


That's my take on it, what does everyone else think?

I wouldn't be altogether opposed to the idea, to be honest, but it would really hinge on Brodeur knowing that he was coming over to be a definite backup and that he would be paid like one. Unfortunately, I don't know that he'd want to. The reality for our team is that we have a very young but very good #1 goalie. I say that we milk Carey for all he's worth for as long as we can.

Having said that, if Brodeur DID come over on the cheap and knowing that he wouldn't play that much I think it would be great. If Carey gets injured he'd be a fine replacement. But I don't see it happening, and we also have Budaj signed for another year already if memory serves.

[ChiLla]

Brodeur in Montreal? Wow, way to create a goalie controversy when you really don't need one.

[Forever_Habs10]

Manatee-X, on 15 May 2012 - 03:31 PM, said:

I wouldn't be altogether opposed to the idea, to be honest, but it would really hinge on Brodeur knowing that he was coming over to be a definite backup and that he would be paid like one. Unfortunately, I don't know that he'd want to.

Neither do I

ChiLla, on 15 May 2012 - 07:27 PM, said:

Brodeur in Montreal? Wow, way to create a goalie controversy when you really don't need one.

LOL

[LeFreshMaker]

Manatee-X, on 15 May 2012 - 03:31 PM, said:

I wouldn't be altogether opposed to the idea, to be honest, but it would really hinge on Brodeur knowing that he was coming over to be a definite backup and that he would be paid like one. Unfortunately, I don't know that he'd want to. The reality for our team is that we have a very young but very good #1 goalie. I say that we milk Carey for all he's worth for as long as we can.

Having said that, if Brodeur DID come over on the cheap and knowing that he wouldn't play that much I think it would be great. If Carey gets injured he'd be a fine replacement. But I don't see it happening, and we also have Budaj signed for another year already if memory serves.

Those were my thoughts exactly. I think if he wanted to come here for to play backup but still get a maybe 30 games in, that would be great for us. If not, oh well, since we still have Budaj.

[dwdemonwolf]

According to his agent, Semin is not likely to return to Washington.

I am not opposed to go after him. He had a bit of a down season so we might be able to sign him to a reduced price.

He is in his physical prime and is a great player... Question is if we're willing to take the chance.

[BigTed3]

dwdemonwolf, on 16 May 2012 - 02:20 AM, said:

According to his agent, Semin is not likely to return to Washington.

I am not opposed to go after him. He had a bit of a down season so we might be able to sign him to a reduced price.

He is in his physical prime and is a great player... Question is if we're willing to take the chance.

Yup, it sounds like he's not all that interested in returning to Was (pending the coaching change) and that he wants to stay in the NHL (according to his agent as well). Semin could definitely fit in here on our 2nd line and PP and perhaps be a nice complement to Plekanec/Gionta. His effort isn't wonderful every night, but I don't see how he could be any worse than Cammalleri was this past season and he would certainly be money better-spent than Gomez. As with other ufa's though, the question will be whether the bidding drives the price up too high. I'd be prepared to go in at 6 million over 4-5 years, but he's not the guy I'd be looking to sign to a deal that's longer than that. I also think that targeting Suter (or upgrading our D in general) is the priority over signing a guy like Semin, but it's possible Suter doesn't hit the market, so Semin is an option. Ahead of all that, the important thing is to get our rfa's signed in June, so we know exactly what our budget is for free agency. There's no sense in signing Suter or Semin and then finding out that Subban or Price holds out because we can't afford them.