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Nine1One

Goaltending

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I think us eastern conference fans really underrate Quick. He's pretty amazing, and will be even better this year. I think he's a Vezina threat, and an easy top 5 selection IMO. I really don't get why people overrated Miller and underrate Quick.

I know. 5678 (miller hiller ward quick) could end up in any order as far as i am concerned.

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1.Price

2.Lundqvist

3.Rinne

4.Vokoun

5.Hiller

6.Miller

7.Ward

8.Quick

9.Luongo

10.Fleury/Crawford/Halak/Niemi/Pavalec

Vezina nominees: Price, Lundqvist and Rinne

Vezina winner:Price

All stars: Price, Lundqvist, Rinne, Hiller, Ward, and Vokoun.

I like your list, so many good tenders in the league, so many young, promising ones, so hard to chose just 10. I am a lil confused about Fleury. Sure he won a cup, since then... :unsure:

The only modification I'd make to your list... find a spot for Thomas. I hate the fact that the b's won the cup, it makes me nauseous to think about it... To give credit where credits due, Thomas deserved it. I felt the same way in 89 when the flames beat our habs. It was hard seeing them skate around the forum holding the cup, but at least we lost it to a guy like Lanny-Not like losing it to a guy like chara.

I know Thomas is the type of tender that people aren't completely sold on... He still has doubters out there. Seriously, he had an incredible season and a miraculous post season. I don't like the bruins, never have, but there is the odd player that have worn the spokes throughout the years, that I really respect. Thomas is one of them. Imo he's too nice of a guy to be a bruin. Do I think Thomas can repeat it again this season... Hell no! But he deserves the title for this past season.

I like that you put Price #1. ;)

Price's time is coming, PG has to ice a good team in front of Carey for that to happen. Slowly getting there, will be so much easier once we're free of the gomez contract or once it starts going down.

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I think us eastern conference fans really underrate Quick. He's pretty amazing, and will be even better this year. I think he's a Vezina threat, and an easy top 5 selection IMO. I really don't get why people overrated Miller and underrate Quick.

TBH Miller I over rated. Sometimes I'm not even sure why everyone says hes amazing. I didn't even know he was a goaltending thread until the olympics, I always figured it was like yeah hes there hes ok but hes no franchise goalie

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TBH Miller I over rated. Sometimes I'm not even sure why everyone says hes amazing. I didn't even know he was a goaltending thread until the olympics, I always figured it was like yeah hes there hes ok but hes no franchise goalie

I think Buffalo sees Miller as their franchise goalie - and he is. He's a huge part of the equation. Not that the rest of the team is nothing - which it clearly isn't but he is a great goalie and they ride on that.

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The only modification I'd make to your list... find a spot for Thomas.

I know Thomas is the type of tender that people aren't completely sold on... He still has doubters out there. Seriously, he had an incredible season and a miraculous post season.

Special emphasis on 'miraculous', I'd say.

Unless he comes even remotely close in 11-12, this last season was a fluke. I'd put him in the same category as Brodeur: a more than reasonably talented goalie that got extremely lucky, and played behind a formidable defense. Putting Scott Stevens and the NHL's favorite Zdeno Chara in front of anyone could make them look like amazing goalies.

Thomas is at the very end of his career. But if he wants to stick around for too long and suck during his last few seasons, Ed Belfour style, then by all means. B)

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I like your list, so many good tenders in the league, so many young, promising ones, so hard to chose just 10. I am a lil confused about Fleury. Sure he won a cup, since then... :unsure:

The only modification I'd make to your list... find a spot for Thomas. I hate the fact that the b's won the cup, it makes me nauseous to think about it... To give credit where credits due, Thomas deserved it. I felt the same way in 89 when the flames beat our habs. It was hard seeing them skate around the forum holding the cup, but at least we lost it to a guy like Lanny-Not like losing it to a guy like chara.

I know Thomas is the type of tender that people aren't completely sold on... He still has doubters out there. Seriously, he had an incredible season and a miraculous post season. I don't like the bruins, never have, but there is the odd player that have worn the spokes throughout the years, that I really respect. Thomas is one of them. Imo he's too nice of a guy to be a bruin. Do I think Thomas can repeat it again this season... Hell no! But he deserves the title for this past season.

I like that you put Price #1. ;)

Price's time is coming, PG has to ice a good team in front of Carey for that to happen. Slowly getting there, will be so much easier once we're free of the gomez contract or once it starts going down.

Special emphasis on 'miraculous', I'd say.

Unless he comes even remotely close in 11-12, this last season was a fluke. I'd put him in the same category as Brodeur: a more than reasonably talented goalie that got extremely lucky, and played behind a formidable defense. Putting Scott Stevens and the NHL's favorite Zdeno Chara in front of anyone could make them look like amazing goalies.

Thomas is at the very end of his career. But if he wants to stick around for too long and suck during his last few seasons, Ed Belfour style, then by all means. B)

FS, I do believe Thomas was very good this season. But I doubt he was really the reincarnation of God between the pipes like the NHL says. He does deserve credit, but not as much as he got. I mean look at Jiggy, he had a brutal season, if he turns it around this year is the NHL going to fall all over him too? it just made me sick that one good season behind a few gigantic defenders can leave a goalie with the reputation as being the best in the league. I think Thomas was a little too cocky this year as well, I mean its nice your happy that your winning, but I don't see why he had to jump up and down in his crease every time someone scored a goal, they out played Vancouver, but there were some games in their run where it was obvious the NHL was backing them up. The Bruins themselves tried their best to make themselves the under dog in every series, look at ours, how Chara got sick and it appeared they were trying to bend it so we looked like we had a target on thier back for Maxpac (before game 1 this appeared in the media I think). In the vancouver series, they had this big thing about Nathan Horton going through all this tough time over a minor concussion and he was a hero to everyone, sure it sucks missing the Stanley cup finals, but how many injuries has boston caused this season that wasn't their fault and everyone should stop picking on us cause were nice guys. It disgusted me a little. Back to Thomas, I think he just got lucky on a team that seemed destined to win, he wasn't as good as he should have been, just had a good team infront of him and a capable backup to play 30 games.

Habs_93, I agree with you. And I wouldn't mind him going like Raycroft/Toskala.

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Thomas was great during this past season & insane during the post season. It had nothing to do with Chara, he is easy to skate past. He was the difference in our series for sure.Can he do it again? Well I have to say no.

Miller is a great goalie. He is the reason Barfalo wins a lot of games.

Sure Brodeur had a great defensive team in front of him in Jersey but he was always there to make an amazing save when the defence broke down.

All three of them have been Hab killers Marty for sure, Miller often & then Thomas.

If you want a great goalie to win a lot of games during the regular season then take Roberto Luongo however if you want to win in the playoffs & go all the way then I would take any one of these three over Roberto.

I see Carey at the top of the list if we can get rid of the nightmare that is the Gomez contract & get the team in front of him he needs to succeed. I do feel PG is on the right course for this to happen.

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FS, I do believe Thomas was very good this season. But I doubt he was really the reincarnation of God between the pipes like the NHL says. He does deserve credit, but not as much as he got. I mean look at Jiggy, he had a brutal season, if he turns it around this year is the NHL going to fall all over him too? it just made me sick that one good season behind a few gigantic defenders can leave a goalie with the reputation as being the best in the league. I think Thomas was a little too cocky this year as well, I mean its nice your happy that your winning, but I don't see why he had to jump up and down in his crease every time someone scored a goal, they out played Vancouver, but there were some games in their run where it was obvious the NHL was backing them up. The Bruins themselves tried their best to make themselves the under dog in every series, look at ours, how Chara got sick and it appeared they were trying to bend it so we looked like we had a target on thier back for Maxpac (before game 1 this appeared in the media I think). In the vancouver series, they had this big thing about Nathan Horton going through all this tough time over a minor concussion and he was a hero to everyone, sure it sucks missing the Stanley cup finals, but how many injuries has boston caused this season that wasn't their fault and everyone should stop picking on us cause were nice guys. It disgusted me a little. Back to Thomas, I think he just got lucky on a team that seemed destined to win, he wasn't as good as he should have been, just had a good team infront of him and a capable backup to play 30 games.

Habs_93, I agree with you. And I wouldn't mind him going like Raycroft/Toskala.

It's in your right to have your opinion, but his numbers say different. Thomas was a vezina candidate way before he won the cup. Ok, if you're basing this on the 1st round against our Habs, then I'd agree with you. Thomas only got stronger the farther they went. This isn't a Niemi or Michael Leighton type thing.

It's clear that you're not a Thomas fan, but I think you're underestimating the impact a strong tender can have on a team in the post season.

Just look at our 93 cup (honestly, after all the b's OT wins in the 1st round, it made me think of the habs 93 cup run and I was already nervous that they'd win it all), did we really have a good team?

We had a decent team, but with the confidence that Roy gave to our forwards, it made the whole team better. I'm in no way comparing Thomas to Roy, just showing that strong tending can make a decent team look like a great team.

You talk about Thomas being lucky cos he had big dmen... Honestly, while Thomas was stunning viewers around the country, Chara and Siedenburg were average. Chara really didn't play that well during the post season, in fact, he was down right brutal in some games.

Just look at some of the offensive weapons Thomas faced through this run... Carter, Richards, Briere, Lecav, St Louis, Stamkos, Sedins, kessler, etc...

Where Lou gave up many soft goals, Thomas giving up a soft goal was rare. That one OT goal was weak, but again, in a game where Chara was brutal, some may argue that it wasn't so much thomas, but more chara's poor coverage on Burrows. It's very interesting to note, that when Lou played well, so did the rest of the nucks. When lou struggled, so did the rest of the nucks. When the b's struggled, thomas gave them a chance to win. I didn't see that from Lou, again, strong tending can be the difference maker. Look at the influence Halak's strong play on our forwards last season. Many can try and argue that it was our defense first system that made Halak look so good. Our dmen blocked a lot of shots, yet we all know that Halak was phenomenal. Thomas was strong in games 1 & 2 while his team looked average (chara looked terrible in both games). Nucks even bragged that they had figured thomas out, we found out pretty quickly that they were wrong. Nords said the same thing about Roy back in the day and in both cases, I believe those statements only fueled the tenders to play even better.

Could we also say Dryden wasn't as good as he appeared in his rookie season cos he had a powerhouse defense in Robinson, Savard and Lapointe? And the 2010-11 b's defenders don't even come close to our 72-73 habs.

There's a fine line between cocky and confidence... As a tender you need a lil bit of cockiness to play at that level. Roy's been criticized throughout his whole career for being cocky. Sure he appeared cocky at times, but Roy also had the numbers to back up his cockiness. He was very confident in his abilities, I saw the same thing from Thomas. After being down 2-0 against the nucks, media was hard on thomas, criticized him for being too aggressive, well, it was that aggressiveness that kept the nucks of the score-sheet.

Really, the b's had a strong team from their top lines, right down to their bottom lines. Again, I strongly believe Thomas was the difference. Do I think he'll do it again, would I trade Thomas for Price straight up... A strong "No" on both counts. But being an x-tender I was very impressed with his abilities.

In the games that the b's lost, Thomas remained solid... Can't say as much for the rest of the b's though or Lou. Thomas-hands down-was the most consistent player on the b's roster during the playoffs. They had a very mediocre PP, yet their areas where they were strong made up for a bad PP... FO% was great and so was their tending. Give Thomas a few bad games in the cup finals and nucks probably would've won. Thomas played every single game for his team, no other goalie did that in these playoffs.

Imo, Thomas gave a well balanced team, a team that were considered under-dogs in 3 of their series, the confidence to go all the way. I couldn't disagree more with your closing statement, I see it the other way around... It wasn't thomas that was lucky to have them, they were lucky to have him. Can you honestly say that the b's would've won the cup had they gone with Rask?

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It's in your right to have your opinion, but his numbers say different. Thomas was a vezina candidate way before he won the cup. Ok, if you're basing this on the 1st round against our Habs, then I'd agree with you. Thomas only got stronger the farther they went. This isn't a Niemi or Michael Leighton type thing.

It's clear that you're not a Thomas fan, but I think you're underestimating the impact a strong tender can have on a team in the post season.

Just look at our 93 cup (honestly, after all the b's OT wins in the 1st round, it made me think of the habs 93 cup run and I was already nervous that they'd win it all), did we really have a good team?

We had a decent team, but with the confidence that Roy gave to our forwards, it made the whole team better. I'm in no way comparing Thomas to Roy, just showing that strong tending can make a decent team look like a great team.

You talk about Thomas being lucky cos he had big dmen... Honestly, while Thomas was stunning viewers around the country, Chara and Siedenburg were average. Chara really didn't play that well during the post season, in fact, he was down right brutal in some games.

Just look at some of the offensive weapons Thomas faced through this run... Carter, Richards, Briere, Lecav, St Louis, Stamkos, Sedins, kessler, etc...

Where Lou gave up many soft goals, Thomas giving up a soft goal was rare. That one OT goal was weak, but again, in a game where Chara was brutal, some may argue that it wasn't so much thomas, but more chara's poor coverage on Burrows. It's very interesting to note, that when Lou played well, so did the rest of the nucks. When lou struggled, so did the rest of the nucks. When the b's struggled, thomas gave them a chance to win. I didn't see that from Lou, again, strong tending can be the difference maker. Look at the influence Halak's strong play on our forwards last season. Many can try and argue that it was our defense first system that made Halak look so good. Our dmen blocked a lot of shots, yet we all know that Halak was phenomenal. Thomas was strong in games 1 & 2 while his team looked average (chara looked terrible in both games). Nucks even bragged that they had figured thomas out, we found out pretty quickly that they were wrong. Nords said the same thing about Roy back in the day and in both cases, I believe those statements only fueled the tenders to play even better.

Could we also say Dryden wasn't as good as he appeared in his rookie season cos he had a powerhouse defense in Robinson, Savard and Lapointe? And the 2010-11 b's defenders don't even come close to our 72-73 habs.

There's a fine line between cocky and confidence... As a tender you need a lil bit of cockiness to play at that level. Roy's been criticized throughout his whole career for being cocky. Sure he appeared cocky at times, but Roy also had the numbers to back up his cockiness. He was very confident in his abilities, I saw the same thing from Thomas. After being down 2-0 against the nucks, media was hard on thomas, criticized him for being too aggressive, well, it was that aggressiveness that kept the nucks of the score-sheet.

Really, the b's had a strong team from their top lines, right down to their bottom lines. Again, I strongly believe Thomas was the difference. Do I think he'll do it again, would I trade Thomas for Price straight up... A strong "No" on both counts. But being an x-tender I was very impressed with his abilities.

In the games that the b's lost, Thomas remained solid... Can't say as much for the rest of the b's though or Lou. Thomas-hands down-was the most consistent player on the b's roster during the playoffs. They had a very mediocre PP, yet their areas where they were strong made up for a bad PP... FO% was great and so was their tending. Give Thomas a few bad games in the cup finals and nucks probably would've won. Thomas played every single game for his team, no other goalie did that in these playoffs.

Imo, Thomas gave a well balanced team, a team that were considered under-dogs in 3 of their series, the confidence to go all the way. I couldn't disagree more with your closing statement, I see it the other way around... It wasn't thomas that was lucky to have them, they were lucky to have him. Can you honestly say that the b's would've won the cup had they gone with Rask?

While I agree that in the post season thomas was phenominal. I should have mentioned that some of my points came from the regular season, I just don't believe Thomas could have gotten that SV% without the team infront of him. I'm sure if you gave Hasek a giant defense he would have an outstanding save percentage.

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While I agree that in the post season thomas was phenominal. I should have mentioned that some of my points came from the regular season, I just don't believe Thomas could have gotten that SV% without the team infront of him. I'm sure if you gave Hasek a giant defense he would have an outstanding save percentage.

That I agree with... Given the fact that the b's had a pretty healthy team and the Habs had so many injuries to deal with (specially on the blueline), I'd give the edge to Price over Thomas-despite the numbers.

But again, Thomas did wrestle the starting position away from Rask, after off season hip surgery and a horrible 2009-10 season, a season where Rask was the better tender.

I think that Thomas got a lot of praise this season cos of how disappointing last season was for him. In the same way, Price too got a lot of praise, specially after losing the #1 spot to Halak last season. Again, where the b's had a pretty healthy season, the Habs were plagued by injuries, specially on the blueline.

People like these feel good, fairytale endings, so winning the cup was the icing on the cake for Thomas.

Who knows how Price would've done had Markov and Gorges played a full season or had been there for the playoffs. It came down to a game 7 OT win, so, the nucks could've won the cup had our Habs disposed of the b's in the 1st round.

I'm so excited for next season!

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Can you honestly say that the b's would've won the cup had they gone with Rask?

Oh, not at all. Rask is not only less talented than Thomas, but he's a way bigger whiner and hothead. He screamed at one of his own defensemen in a game against Toronto near the end of the season after he let in a weak goal, and got pulled for the third period. Not so great.

Thomas was the best player on the Bruins' roster and is singlehandedly responsible for their eastern conference championship, no doubt about it. The cup win was all about Vancouver's complete collapse. Anybody from the top 8 in the east could've beat them, in retrospect.

I think that Thomas got a lot of praise this season cos of how disappointing last season was for him.

People like these feel good, fairytale endings, so winning the cup was the icing on the cake for Thomas.

It's all true, but the mounds upon mounds of endless praise is getting really old for me. He had a good season, and added distinction to his career. Congratulations are in order. But people are talking as if he's the second coming of goaltending, comparing him to Hasek, deserves to be in the HoF, etc. Which I think is pretty ridiculous.

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While I agree that in the post season thomas was phenominal. I should have mentioned that some of my points came from the regular season, I just don't believe Thomas could have gotten that SV% without the team infront of him. I'm sure if you gave Hasek a giant defense he would have an outstanding save percentage.

Well no goalie is going to have as good a SV% without a strong defence in front of him, that's a given. But it seems to me that you're taking this into consideration as though Tim Thomas is the only goalie this ever applied to.

Boston's defence was pretty good, yeah, and Chara is an absolute beast. But was it the best defence in the league this year? Probably not. Does it stand out as one of the best defences in the modern era? Not even close, not to me in any case. And yet Thomas still managed a record-setting save percentage.

Say what you want about the team in front of him, but I feel that you are highly underrating Thomas. Better teams with better players have come and gone, but none of their goalies managed to do what he did.

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Well no goalie is going to have as good a SV% without a strong defence in front of him, that's a given. But it seems to me that you're taking this into consideration as though Tim Thomas is the only goalie this ever applied to.

I think it's more systematic than anything. There's definitely a correlation between facing more shots and having a better SV% in most cases so a lot of times goalies playing on great teams have underwhelming SV% and guys playing on mediocre/below average teams have inflated SV%s. There's also some arenas that over and under count shots. NHL RTSS stats are pretty volatile and unreliable building to building.

no halak? :D

Pretty hard to justify him being in the top 10.

The problem with assessing goalies is the flawed mainstream stats, the lack of reliable in depth stats and the general parity around the league at the position IMO. SV% is likely the best MS stat but it's still very unreliable and dependent on external factors. People often quote stats like wins, GAA and shutouts which are basically utterly useless IMO.

Also, is it just my imagination or did you guess Roloson will falter this season in your initial post and then call him great a couple of posts later?

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I think it's more systematic than anything. There's definitely a correlation between facing more shots and having a better SV% in most cases so a lot of times goalies playing on great teams have underwhelming SV% and guys playing on mediocre/below average teams have inflated SV%s. There's also some arenas that over and under count shots. NHL RTSS stats are pretty volatile and unreliable building to building.

Pretty hard to justify him being in the top 10.

The problem with assessing goalies is the flawed mainstream stats, the lack of reliable in depth stats and the general parity around the league at the position IMO. SV% is likely the best MS stat but it's still very unreliable and dependent on external factors. People often quote stats like wins, GAA and shutouts which are basically utterly useless IMO.

Also, is it just my imagination or did you guess Roloson will falter this season in your initial post and then call him great a couple of posts later?

I said he will falter but i still think he's a great goalie. He won't be in the top ten goalies this year, imo. He just misses the cut. I mentioned Halak because he is a blues fan as well :P

Edited by Nine1One
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I said he will falter but i still think he's a great goalie. He won't be in the top ten goalies this year, imo. He just misses the cut.

Well he's not a top 10 goalie in the league so him just "missing the cut" of the top 10 is hardly him faltering.

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Well he's not a top 10 goalie in the league so him just "missing the cut" of the top 10 is hardly him faltering.

laksdfjasldk I mean he isn't going to be the lights out goalie many tampa fans think he will be.

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laksdfjasldk I mean he isn't going to be the lights out goalie many tampa fans think he will be.

I just don't see how hes going to have another strong season, I just don't see it working out

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and I believe I was correct about Rollie. Now anyone wanna start talking about Schnieder vs luongo?

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and I believe I was correct about Rollie. Now anyone wanna start talking about Schnieder vs luongo?

I always felt he (Luongo) ws very overrated. Could have just been Vancouver. I still felt that way when he played for Canada. I don't like him much (or Vancouver for that matter) to tell you the truth. He's still a relatively good goaltender just not what he was made out to be and I think some are realising this in Van City and they are lucky they have a great backup in Schnieder who has been doing well. I even remember seeing him come in last season for Luongo and getting it done. It's too bad they are stuck with Luongo's contract though. They could get some kind of worth out of it but I don't think it will work for them. I can't imagine they thought he would play at a certain level for that whole stretch of time.

I feel bad about Roloson though. But at 41 and the year he had last year, I'm not sure what was to be expected. I certainly didn't think he'd be doing this poorly.

Edited by beaubie
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I always felt he (Luongo) ws very overrated. Could have just been Vancouver. I still felt that way when he played for Canada. I don't like him much (or Vancouver for that matter) to tell you the truth. He's still a relatively good goaltender just not what he was made out to be and I think some are realising this in Van City and they are lucky they have a great backup in Schnieder who has been doing well. I even remember seeing him come in last season for Luongo and getting it done. It's too bad they are stuck with Luongo's contract though. They could get some kind of worth out of it but I don't think it will work for them. I can't imagine they thought he would play at a certain level for that whole stretch of time.

I feel bad about Roloson though. But at 41 and the year he had last year, I'm not sure what was to be expected. I certainly didn't think he'd be doing this poorly.

Ok a few things ive realized about team canada and luuuuuu

1) Brodeur wasnt good either

2) Luongo played well but not as good as people think

3) He let the USA tie it with under 10 seconds left

4) Sidney Crosby bailed him out

if we didnt score that OT goal, luongo would have been hated

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Ok a few things ive realized about team canada and luuuuuu

1) Brodeur wasnt good either

2) Luongo played well but not as good as people think

3) He let the USA tie it with under 10 seconds left

4) Sidney Crosby bailed him out

if we didnt score that OT goal, luongo would have been hated

Definitely true. It'd be a complete 180 and we'd be blaming him for the failure. I still blame him anyway.

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Blast from the past!

"Goaltending tandems" don't work! "Win and you are in" is a poor strategy!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Well at least we got good value for Halak!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

or maybe we should be crying......

Edited by swansee
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People are putting Fleury in the Vezina talks :rolleyes: . Ya, he's a great goalie but certainly not top 3 this year. He's got a lot of wins cause of the team in front of him. Ya, they missed Crosby for most of the season, but Malkin had the best(or second best, I'm not sure) season of his career and Neal also had a breakout season. And their defense is pretty awesome, even with Letang out. Vezina candidates this year in my opinion are:

1.The King

2.Rinne

3. A battle, but I don't think Fleury is in it...Eliot/Quick/Howard with some other guys in the battle, but IMO they are those three are leading the battle for third place.

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