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Chris Campoli


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To illustrate what I mean about that hit turning messy in about half a second, watch this extended replay.

In the close-up shot 56 seconds in, you can see that Campoli only lowers his head (i.e., becomes vulnerable) as he hits the bottom of the circle. If you keep that in mind and watch the real-time replay at the start of the video, he hits that circle just as the clock hits 7:52. Contact occurs well before the clock hits 7:51. Malone really had no way to bail from the hit after Campoli became vulnerable.

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To those who say this was not a suspendable hit , I have to 100% disagree , seeing what has been called and suspended so far this hit ranks right up there. Campoli is in a vulnerable position and malone has time to let up and avoid head contact.

I coach midget hockey , Hockey Canada is enforceing very strict Headshot penalties this season , even accidental head contact is punishable with at least a 2 min minor and could be 4 min. at ref's discration. Intentional is 5 and a game. It is no different than accidental highsticking , even if a player had no intent to highstick his opponant the player is still held responsible for his stick. It should be the same for head shots. Malone could have played the puck instead and likely would have kept the play and a scoring chance alive for his team. Malone opted ofr the BIG hit which was ill timed. You can see him coming in , this is the kind of "predatory hit" they want out of game.

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Campoli is in a vulnerable position and malone has time to let up and avoid head contact.

I disagree. My last post breaking down the replay explains why.

You can see him coming in , this is the kind of "predatory hit" they want out of game.

If Campoli doesn't stick his neck out (which he hadn't until it was too late for Malone to let up), then that's a big hit that is not even close to being suspendable. Malone saw the play developing behind the net and saw the opportunity for a big hit, but there's nothing wrong with that. It's not like he charged Campoli. These hits should always be legal IMO. It's just unfortunate that Campoli became vulnerable just before contact.

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I disagree. My last post breaking down the replay explains why.

If Campoli doesn't stick his neck out (which he hadn't until it was too late for Malone to let up), then that's a big hit that is not even close to being suspendable. Malone saw the play developing behind the net and saw the opportunity for a big hit, but there's nothing wrong with that. It's not like he charged Campoli. These hits should always be legal IMO. It's just unfortunate that Campoli became vulnerable just before contact.

Well the wonderfull thing in objectivity is we can agree to disagree on this ;)

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Well the wonderfull thing in objectivity is we can agree to disagree on this ;)

How do you figure Malone had time to let up though? From the replay it shows that he only had half a second to react and adjust after Campoli stuck his neck out. Surely that's not enough time to bail on the hit...

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How do you figure Malone had time to let up though? From the replay it shows that he only had half a second to react and adjust after Campoli stuck his neck out. Surely that's not enough time to bail on the hit...

Things happen very quickly on the Ice , Malone sees the play developing , he made his mind up to go for the hit instead of the puck , as a player I see the loose puck I would be more concerned about getting the puck more than the hit to create the scoring chance, watch the replay posted up above Campoli doesn't even have posetion(sp), control of the puck ,Malone chooses to cruise in and blindside Campoli reaguardless of the fact that Campoli starts to reach for it. I have played and coached hockey for over 20 years , I love a physical game and never want to see hitting removed , but to say Malone didn't have time to make a better decision on the play , well again I 100% disagree.

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This hit last year would have received NO consideration of a suspension. Based on what we've seen so far this year with the new rule changes,,,,,,THEY BLEW IT, IMO.

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Things happen very quickly on the Ice , Malone sees the play developing , he made his mind up to go for the hit instead of the puck , as a player I see the loose puck I would be more concerned about getting the puck more than the hit to create the scoring chance, watch the replay posted up above Campoli doesn't even have posetion(sp), control of the puck ,Malone chooses to cruise in and blindside Campoli reaguardless of the fact that Campoli starts to reach for it. I have played and coached hockey for over 20 years , I love a physical game and never want to see hitting removed , but to say Malone didn't have time to make a better decision on the play , well again I 100% disagree.

actually if you watch the replay you posted up top closely you can see Malone does try for the Puck , he wiffs on trying to get so instead goes for the hit , as if he was thinking , damn it I missed so screw it I'll hit the guy. He conciouly makes this decision IMO from watching the replay again

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So as Habs fans over the last year we've learned that it's okay to ram someones face into the boards and it's also okay to make a check to the head as long as the player is in a vulnerable position.

Right too bad we don't have anybody to apply these lessons B)

It was borderline. The message Shanny is sending is:

I played the game, I was physical, be responsible, don't seek out others solely to hurt them but at the same time if the guy puts himself in a bad spot, I don't hold you fully responsible.

I actually think if this hit didn't affect a Hab, we'd all focus on the objectivity and realize Shanny is walking a very thin line and I think he just re-traced it.

Brad Boyes vs Ryan Malone's hit. The explanation is sudden movement, listen yourself at 30 seconds:

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This is the post I've wanted to make all day, to address the Shanahan ruling. Obviously, I think most Habs fans are upset by the ruling but here's my opinion as objectively as I can make it:

I'll agree with Shanahan on one thing: he's in a tough position. Why? Because head shots and legal body checks are on the same spectrum and it's a slippery slope to start climbing up. He's at least been consistent in stating that the hits that will be given suspensions will be ones where the head is targeted and where the player doesn't make a movement simultaneous or just prior to the collision. However, how one defines "just prior to" is a subject of much debate. To me, Campoli's movement was not just prior to the hit, at least in hockey terms. I referred to this prior to the announcement, but Campoli's head is down prior to him hitting the top of the circle. On the camera angle looking at Malone's chest, you can see he braces for the hit after Campoli is already halfway to the face-off circle and after the puck is already off his stick. I realize hockey is a fast game, but I feel like a second and a half is enough time for a player to let up on the contact. Maybe he can't avoid running into Campoli entirely, but he can definitely refrain from putting the weight of his check into the opponent's head the way he did. Campoli did have his head down, but this was not a sudden change in position and I don't think having your head down entitles another player to lay a violent check on you. In the old days, you had to keep your head up, but the new rule clearly states the onus is on the player making the check and Malone had the time to lessen the impact here. This is not the case whee Campoli saw Malone coming and turned his back to create a hit from behind. In fact, it's quite the opposite; if Campoli had had any idea Malone was coming, his reaction would not have been to put his head down but rather to put his arms up. This further supports the theoy that Malone made the decision to hit Campoli after the latter had already put his head down.

Second, it was clear from Malone's play the entire night that he was looking to hurt someone, or at least impose his physicality on a smaller opponent. He cross-checked Price into the net. He tried to start a fight with Subban. And I believe he saw the opportunity to hit a vulnerable opponent. I don't think he meant to make the contact with the head, but similar to the discussion around the Chara hit last year, intent is not the issue. You can never really prove or disprove intent. What you can suggest is that this was a player who was going out of his way to intimidate that night and who made a reckless play. If the NHL truly wanted to get heah shots out of the game, this is the type of play it could have easily punished without anyone really being upset about it. If Shanahan had given Malone 3 games, 5 games, even 8 games, I don't think there would have been many people (outside of Don Cherry) up in arms. There might have been people who disagreed with the decision, but I think most would recognize that Malone's hit was at the very least reckless and lacking respect for an opponent and I for one don't see a problem with trying to take this out of the game. In the NFL, they have instituted a policy to penalize any hit on the quarterback's head. It doesn't matter if it was accidental. It doesn't matter if the QB has his head down at hip level. A hit to the head as the primary point of contact is a violation. It's working there and you have even bigger guys who are also making split-second decisions. So why is it that the NHL has to create a grey zone for interpreting head shots? Again, there will be people for and people against suspending Malone, but if you're going to err on one side of what Shanahan calls "a tough call," why not err on the side of safety? There will be people who argue it will take hitting out of the game, but there have been plenty of big hits that haven't targeted the head (see Jarrd Tinordi's hit for example). If you teach players to respect the rule, they will learn to abide by it, and the game can still be exciting and physical.

What I find most disappointing in all this, however, is that Malone has now run two players in the head and yet remains a non-offender. In the playoffs last year, he hit Pascal Dupuis in the side of the head but was let off by Colin Campbell on what was deemed to be a borderline infraction at that time too. Now he has done it again and yet for the second time, not only has he escaped punishment, he has also escaped being labeled a repeat offender when this happens again. Not if this happens again, but when this happens again. Malone is a big guy and while he has talent, he's also shown he can be reckless and so long as the NHL continues to allow this, he won't have to think twice about how he plays the game. So like Chara, when Malone pulls something like this again, he'll face a minimal suspension whereas a guy like Cammalleri has a suspension to his name already and will be labeled a repeat offender even though he rarely hits, never mind throwing a head shot. At the very least, Shanahan should have come out with a public warning to Malone saying that although he's been let off easy this time, he has two strikes against his name and that the NHL will be watching him closely for any further offences.

So where does that leave us? Some will say Shanahan is no better than Campbell, but I'll try my best to view each man independent of the other. Yes, Shanahan has ties to Steve Yzerman, who just happens to be the GM for the team Malone plays for. But Shanahan also spent his better years as a Red Wing and he suspended Smith for 8 games. Campbell on the other hand had a son playing for the team he ardently refused to hit with suspensions and there was public proof of letters he had written indicating his bias. As I said, I do believe this hit landed Shanahan in a grey area, but I do think that based on what I have stated above, that a suspension was justified if he was as serious as he says he is about player safety. In the Smith incident, the player also moves his head into the path of the hit, so the fact remains that in assessing these incidents for suspensions, Shanahan still has the ability to spin the details any which way he wants. If you institute a rule like the NFL has where a hit to the head is a hit to the head, you take out this grey area that we're in now and you trump the debate about intent and about whether a certain player has a record and about what constitutes being "just prior to" contact. Clearly, 1.5 seconds is short enough to be considered just prior, but 3 seconds (as we've seen with other incidents this year) is too long. So who is Shanahan to decide that the right amount of time is 2 seconds or 2.7 seconds or whatever it may be in his head? For now, I'll be thankful Campoli is ok, but what I've learned from this incident is that although Shanahan has set the bar a little higher than Campbell on what is passable and what isn't, that bar continues to be ill-defined and it continues to be re-defined based on one man's judgment rather than an objective rule.

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Campoli isn't injured that's the main thing as far as the Habs are concerned.

+1

He's very fortunate

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I'll agree with Shanahan on one thing: he's in a tough position.

Up to this point...I've liked and have agreed on his rulings during pre-season.<_<

he's unfortunately gonna miss some & not always get them right,though I do stress consistency is what is needed in his rulings going forward.

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This is the post I've wanted to make all day, to address the Shanahan ruling. Obviously, I think most Habs fans are upset by the ruling but here's my opinion as objectively as I can make it:

I'll agree with Shanahan on one thing: he's in a tough position. Why? Because head shots and legal body checks are on the same spectrum and it's a slippery slope to start climbing up. He's at least been consistent in stating that the hits that will be given suspensions will be ones where the head is targeted and where the player doesn't make a movement simultaneous or just prior to the collision. However, how one defines "just prior to" is a subject of much debate. To me, Campoli's movement was not just prior to the hit, at least in hockey terms. I referred to this prior to the announcement, but Campoli's head is down prior to him hitting the top of the circle. On the camera angle looking at Malone's chest, you can see he braces for the hit after Campoli is already halfway to the face-off circle and after the puck is already off his stick. I realize hockey is a fast game, but I feel like a second and a half is enough time for a player to let up on the contact. Maybe he can't avoid running into Campoli entirely, but he can definitely refrain from putting the weight of his check into the opponent's head the way he did. Campoli did have his head down, but this was not a sudden change in position and I don't think having your head down entitles another player to lay a violent check on you. In the old days, you had to keep your head up, but the new rule clearly states the onus is on the player making the check and Malone had the time to lessen the impact here. This is not the case whee Campoli saw Malone coming and turned his back to create a hit from behind. In fact, it's quite the opposite; if Campoli had had any idea Malone was coming, his reaction would not have been to put his head down but rather to put his arms up. This further supports the theoy that Malone made the decision to hit Campoli after the latter had already put his head down.

Second, it was clear from Malone's play the entire night that he was looking to hurt someone, or at least impose his physicality on a smaller opponent. He cross-checked Price into the net. He tried to start a fight with Subban. And I believe he saw the opportunity to hit a vulnerable opponent. I don't think he meant to make the contact with the head, but similar to the discussion around the Chara hit last year, intent is not the issue. You can never really prove or disprove intent. What you can suggest is that this was a player who was going out of his way to intimidate that night and who made a reckless play. If the NHL truly wanted to get heah shots out of the game, this is the type of play it could have easily punished without anyone really being upset about it. If Shanahan had given Malone 3 games, 5 games, even 8 games, I don't think there would have been many people (outside of Don Cherry) up in arms. There might have been people who disagreed with the decision, but I think most would recognize that Malone's hit was at the very least reckless and lacking respect for an opponent and I for one don't see a problem with trying to take this out of the game. In the NFL, they have instituted a policy to penalize any hit on the quarterback's head. It doesn't matter if it was accidental. It doesn't matter if the QB has his head down at hip level. A hit to the head as the primary point of contact is a violation. It's working there and you have even bigger guys who are also making split-second decisions. So why is it that the NHL has to create a grey zone for interpreting head shots? Again, there will be people for and people against suspending Malone, but if you're going to err on one side of what Shanahan calls "a tough call," why not err on the side of safety? There will be people who argue it will take hitting out of the game, but there have been plenty of big hits that haven't targeted the head (see Jarrd Tinordi's hit for example). If you teach players to respect the rule, they will learn to abide by it, and the game can still be exciting and physical.

What I find most disappointing in all this, however, is that Malone has now run two players in the head and yet remains a non-offender. In the playoffs last year, he hit Pascal Dupuis in the side of the head but was let off by Colin Campbell on what was deemed to be a borderline infraction at that time too. Now he has done it again and yet for the second time, not only has he escaped punishment, he has also escaped being labeled a repeat offender when this happens again. Not if this happens again, but when this happens again. Malone is a big guy and while he has talent, he's also shown he can be reckless and so long as the NHL continues to allow this, he won't have to think twice about how he plays the game. So like Chara, when Malone pulls something like this again, he'll face a minimal suspension whereas a guy like Cammalleri has a suspension to his name already and will be labeled a repeat offender even though he rarely hits, never mind throwing a head shot. At the very least, Shanahan should have come out with a public warning to Malone saying that although he's been let off easy this time, he has two strikes against his name and that the NHL will be watching him closely for any further offences.

So where does that leave us? Some will say Shanahan is no better than Campbell, but I'll try my best to view each man independent of the other. Yes, Shanahan has ties to Steve Yzerman, who just happens to be the GM for the team Malone plays for. But Shanahan also spent his better years as a Red Wing and he suspended Smith for 8 games. Campbell on the other hand had a son playing for the team he ardently refused to hit with suspensions and there was public proof of letters he had written indicating his bias. As I said, I do believe this hit landed Shanahan in a grey area, but I do think that based on what I have stated above, that a suspension was justified if he was as serious as he says he is about player safety. In the Smith incident, the player also moves his head into the path of the hit, so the fact remains that in assessing these incidents for suspensions, Shanahan still has the ability to spin the details any which way he wants. If you institute a rule like the NFL has where a hit to the head is a hit to the head, you take out this grey area that we're in now and you trump the debate about intent and about whether a certain player has a record and about what constitutes being "just prior to" contact. Clearly, 1.5 seconds is short enough to be considered just prior, but 3 seconds (as we've seen with other incidents this year) is too long. So who is Shanahan to decide that the right amount of time is 2 seconds or 2.7 seconds or whatever it may be in his head? For now, I'll be thankful Campoli is ok, but what I've learned from this incident is that although Shanahan has set the bar a little higher than Campbell on what is passable and what isn't, that bar continues to be ill-defined and it continues to be re-defined based on one man's judgment rather than an objective rule.

Really excellent post. As far as "who is Shanahan to decide that the right amount of time is 2 seconds..." that unfortunately for him is the job he was given. I just re-watched the hit again, and I think if you look at it in a vacuum it really can go either way, almost a 50/50 call. However, if you factor in the fact Malone was trying to hurt someone all night, I think it becomes easier to lean towards suspension. I don't know if Shanny is supposed to/allowed to consider things like this when reviewing a hit, but I think he should be.

My last point: although I agree and would like to see him lay down suspensions for all hits to the head, he really can't do that as things stand. The rule is currently just for intentional (including reckless) hits to the head. No matter how good our VP of operations is (and I do still have faith he'll do a great a job), the real solution won't occur until the rule itself changes to ban all head shots.

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I do still have faith he'll do a great a job.

As I Do also............Shanny's new at this,but greatly an upgrade from what we've be accustomed to.....IMO

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Really excellent post. As far as "who is Shanahan to decide that the right amount of time is 2 seconds..." that unfortunately for him is the job he was given. I just re-watched the hit again, and I think if you look at it in a vacuum it really can go either way, almost a 50/50 call. However, if you factor in the fact Malone was trying to hurt someone all night, I think it becomes easier to lean towards suspension. I don't know if Shanny is supposed to/allowed to consider things like this when reviewing a hit, but I think he should be.

My last point: although I agree and would like to see him lay down suspensions for all hits to the head, he really can't do that as things stand. The rule is currently just for intentional (including reckless) hits to the head. No matter how good our VP of operations is (and I do still have faith he'll do a great a job), the real solution won't occur until the rule itself changes to ban all head shots.

But the question remains then, if Shanahan really had a 50-50 decision to make and couldn't go wrong or right either way, why not go the way that protects your players and their health? He's the VP of player safety. Does he really want the message sent out that if a player sees another player put his head down that he's alright to hammer him? I can see some of the dirtier players going into the corners now and just hitting away if someone turns their back because they know they can use the defence that it's ok to hit a guy who makes himself vulnerable. As I said, it's a grey area, but I believe Malone had the time to minimize the impact and he didn't. He did just the opposite, which was consistent with the way he had been playing all night. If you punish him, then the next time he sees a D man skating around his net with his head down (and being hooked, which also made him vulnerable and which had been going on well longer than 3-4 seconds) he'll think about playing the puck (which he completely ignored btw) or else making a stop by going lower rather than keeping his arms up into the player's head. As I said, players will eventually learn to make adjustments if you set the rules that way. I don't think most players are out to injure, but they will all stretch the rules as far as they can go to give their own team an edge, including knocking an opponent out of the game. There's really no reason players should be exposed to taking any head shots (just like in the NFL, as I stated)... the only reason we see this as acceptable is because it's been going on for so long, but look at all the players who have retired because ov concussions and ask yourself if losing more guys like Kariya, Lindros, or Crosby is worth seeing a violent head shot every now and then. If you watch the hit Tinordi delivered the other night in junior, you have a clean body-on-body hit that punished his opponent but didn't put his livelihood in jeopardy. I still believe there is room for physicality without allowing direct blows to the head.

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I don't know where some people are getting the idea that Malone had a full 1.5 to 2 seconds to bail out on that hit. Here is the progression in screen captures.

1. Campoli crosses the goal line upright, head up, and with the puck. If Campoli keeps this position, Malone delivers a big, legal, open ice check.

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2. Campoli hits the circle, loses the puck, and starts to lower his head. In real time, the RDS clock is only just ticking down to 7:52.

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3. Campoli hasn't even hit the faceoff marks before he's fully vulnerable.

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4. Contact. In real time, the RDS clock hasn't even hit 7:51.

XxEUP.png

Between images 2 and 4 is about half a second. If you go back a full 2 seconds from contact, Campoli hasn't even picked up the puck from behind the net.

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My thoughts about the refereeing in the NHL and the people in charge of suspensions in the NHL as far back as Clarence Campbell have been playing hardball with the Habs as a team.All other teams seem to fall under a different umbrella that doesn't allow the horse manure to fall on them.The point I have to make is that why is it that the former players in charge of the policing,aren't chosen from former Canadiens.This would seem prudent when considering the injury to Pacioretty and the ire that has come on the NHL due to its lack of acting on Chara. Instead within a week of Chara not being suspended they get the AHL president to throw a 10 game suspension at Gabriel Dumont one of the Habs prospects.Tell me that wasn't the proverbial warning shot thrown at David Molson for opining on the Chara incident.This type of biased punishment by the NHL Officianado makes me sick,how can they honestly say anything about Good Sportsmanship let alone man's inhumanity to man.Shanahan you suck like your buddy Campbell,obviously it's the same old mentality,let's dump on the Habs.Change the focus from headshots to a Conspiracy against the Habs how dumb do you really think people are?

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Between images 2 and 4 is about half a second. If you go back a full 2 seconds from contact, Campoli hasn't even picked up the puck from behind the net.

I wasn't able to freeze-frame the play like you, but with the benefit of what you've shown, I agree that it looks more like 1 second rather than a second and a half. Nevertheless, I have Campoli's head going down really right as the clock turns from :53 to :52 and some might say that his head had gone down at :54/:53 as well as he checked on the puck. If Malone had looked at :54/:53, he would have been able to identify Campoli was already in a vulnerable position coming around the net as he 1) probably couldn't get a great view of what's going on around the net and Carey Price, 2) is looking down at the puck intermittently, and 3) has a player hooking him from behind. My point is that regardless of whether it's 1 second, 1.5 seconds, or 3 seconds, there's no set limit that defines a hit as being ok and another as being dirty. Malone was still able to see Campoli was in a vulnerable position and he is still able to take two strides and a glide into the hit from the time of your first frame when Campoli puts his head down the second time.

If you look at the MacArthur hit, Abdelkader also tilts his head down right before the hit with much less of a delay than what occurs in the Malone-Campoli incident. But if MacArthur isn't given a reprieve for that split-second, why is Malone for the greater length of time he has to hit Campoli? Why is Smith docked 5 games when Chicago's Smith leans into the check and toe drags to the center of the ice, thus changing the angle of the hit? I'm not trying to say Malone should be suspended a certain number of games or that his hit was viciously dirty, but I don't see it as being any different than what Smith did and I certainly think it's worse than what MacArthur did. I just want to see some consistency with the rulings.

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Is Shanahan really his own man...? He stated himself that Campbell still plays a vital role in terms of discipline and that he consults with him on a regular basis (even if the final decision is his it is tainted by the consultation and relationship). And that tells me that the message given by the rush of judgements during the pre-season was half-hearted and a temporary thing that they felt they had to do to appease the movement against violence, but truly don't want to do... if they did they would have simply eliiminated any grey area and avoided selective tolerance regarding any hit to the head (just like high-sticking... and, heaven forbid the puck over the glass). This goes beyond just Shanahan... this is the power brokers of the league still pulling the strings.

Nothing has changed really IMO. It is a way of making it look like your trying to do something when you really aren't... pulling the wool over our eyes once again. Shanahan says he is not against fighting (deliberate hits to the head)... what does that tell you?

Campoli has every right to feel as though he is not being protected by player safety. The league has to stop trying to sell false positives... they are not serious about this.

I hope that it wasn't once again a situation where the player being hit did not get injured and so that influenced the decision. Imagine if Campoli would have been out cold on the ice and suffered a severe concussion as a result... then what? (It could have happened... Campoli got lucky because like a boxer he actually tried to slip the hit to the head at the last moment moving his head... if he hadn't had the presence of mind to react as quickly as he did it could have been bad IMO)

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