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One more thing... let's say Campoli had been severely concussed and broke his neck the way Pacioretty did. Would Shanahan still have had the guts to still say Campoli brought it on himself because he was skating with his head down? The onus is on the guy making the hit to judge whether the player he is hitting is in a vulnerable position. As I've said, I find this whole business about what constitutes a "legal" head shot ridiculous, especially when you're talking about head shots that players don't see coming. If you high stick a guy, it doesn't matter if the guy turned his head a second before you lifted your stick and you didn't think his head was going to be where you moved your stick. So why is it any different when we're talking about a more serious offence of elbowing or fore-arming someone's face? I said it when the Chara shot occurred, but the league needs to take more responsibility for protecting its players and stop making excuses to allow dangerous plays.

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I wasn't able to freeze-frame the play like you, but with the benefit of what you've shown, I agree that it looks more like 1 second rather than a second and a half.

I still think it's more like half a second. Here are a few more captures with the RDS scoreboard. I tried to pause and capture as close as possible to when the clock actually changes.

1. Clock hits 7:53, Malone sees the play developing. You mention that around this time Campoli has his head down at moments, which is true, but he isn't sticking his neck out. Hitting a guy with his head down (in the sense that he's looking at the puck) is not illegal in itself.

1loJW.png

2. Clock hits 7:52, Campoli is just about to lose the puck. It's hard to tell in this resized image, but in the larger video he still has possession. You can tell Malone is already lining up his hit. Is Campoli vulnerable if he keeps his head up from here on in? Maybe a little, but I think Malone is still in his right to make a hit here. It's not like he's blind-siding him at the very moment Campoli rounds the net.

FPHsC.png

3. Clock hits 7:51, well after contact.

iMoDz.png

If you look at the MacArthur hit, Abdelkader also tilts his head down right before the hit with much less of a delay than what occurs in the Malone-Campoli incident.

[/Quote]

Why is Smith docked 5 games when Chicago's Smith leans into the check and toe drags to the center of the ice, thus changing the angle of the hit?

I think Shanahan's viewpoint on this was that even though Abdelkader was leaned over, he never really changed his head position in relation to his body like Campoli did, so the onus was on MacArthur to hit him squarely. I think the Smith situation was similar. Chicago's Smith did move in the sense he slowed up, but his head never really changed position in relation to his body, so the onus was on Detroit's Smith to hit squarely. I think it's also worth noting that both these hits involved skaters traveling in the same direction. It may not have had anything to do with the decision, but IMO it puts a little more control in the hitter's hands.

Anyways, that's just my opinion. I definitely see your point too, and obviously it's a bit of a tricky call for all three hits. I don't envy Shanahan's job.

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Is Shanahan really his own man...? He stated himself that Campbell still plays a vital role in terms of discipline and that he consults with him on a regular basis (even if the final decision is his it is tainted by the consultation and relationship). And that tells me that the message given by the rush of judgements during the pre-season was half-hearted and a temporary thing that they felt they had to do to appease the movement against violence, but truly don't want to do... if they did they would have simply eliiminated any grey area and avoided selective tolerance regarding any hit to the head (just like high-sticking... and, heaven forbid the puck over the glass). This goes beyond just Shanahan... this is the power brokers of the league still pulling the strings.

Nothing has changed really IMO. It is a way of making it look like your trying to do something when you really aren't... pulling the wool over our eyes once again. Shanahan says he is not against fighting (deliberate hits to the head)... what does that tell you?

Campoli has every right to feel as though he is not being protected by player safety. The league has to stop trying to sell false positives... they are not serious about this.

I hope that it wasn't once again a situation where the player being hit did not get injured and so that influenced the decision. Imagine if Campoli would have been out cold on the ice and suffered a severe concussion as a result... then what? (It could have happened... Campoli got lucky because like a boxer he actually tried to slip the hit to the head at the last moment moving his head... if he hadn't had the presence of mind to react as quickly as he did it could have been bad IMO)

I'm on board here HHN. I stated earlier that i'll reserve judgement on Shanny until he has to make a judgement on a team like the Bruins. I neglected to include the Hab's in that statement. It seems like the smoke and mirrors that we've witnessed the last few weeks was exactly that. Same old same old in my books. :rolleyes:

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One more thing... let's say Campoli had been severely concussed and broke his neck the way Pacioretty did. Would Shanahan still have had the guts to still say Campoli brought it on himself because he was skating with his head down?

Good question. I think injury has played a part in some of his decisions, so it's hard to say.

The flip side of that though is if Campoli doesn't make that final gesture at the last second of sticking his neck out (meaning no head-shot), and Malone doesn't change a thing, are we still criticize Malone for going after a vulnerable player? I say no, and that he's well within the rules to make that hit.

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I'm on board here HHN. I stated earlier that i'll reserve judgement on Shanny until he has to make a judgement on a team like the Bruins. I neglected to include the Hab's in that statement. It seems like the smoke and mirrors that we've witnessed the last few weeks was exactly that. Same old same old in my books. :rolleyes:

It's pretty bad when some people break plays down to a second and a reactive movement of the head while reaching for a puck, to make a decision... that speaks volumes regarding trying to find ways to avoid the issue... like those trying to find ways to excuse aggressors and applaud the league for their inconsistency and lack of courage to take a decisive stand on the issue of reasonable player protection.

Camp looks like he could be a good find... hope he doesn't find out in a few weeks that there was some damage done.

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It's pretty bad when some people break plays down to a second and a reactive movement of the head while reaching for a puck, to make a decision... that speaks volumes regarding trying to find ways to avoid the issue... like those trying to find ways to excuse aggressors and applaud the league for their inconsistency and lack of courage to take a decisive stand on the issue of reasonable player protection.

You have to protect the players, but you also have to let them do their jobs. Hockey is fast and physical, and you can't go around suspending every player who throws a hit that ends badly, because sometimes the result isn't 100% under their control and every player on the ice assumes a certain level of risk. Breaking down a play allows a person to be objective and to find out what should be considered reasonable. When I break down this play, I see a play where Malone went in for a reasonable hockey hit, and circumstances beyond his control turned it into something unfortunate. Anything reasonable can turn ugly under the right circumstances. I'd rather the NHL have the flexibility of being able to analyze a play and make a judgment call instead of applying rules with zero exception (e.g., puck over glass, toe in crease), but that's just me.

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I watched the tampa game with a couple friends. They both agreed that the hit on campoli would result in a suspension. One of my friends was even a toronto fan. I wasn't able to convince them that there was no way a suspension would be called. I tried to explain that this was not a toronto player that got hit. No, it was a lowly montreal player and of no consequence. They thought I was being sarcastic. I wasn't. That's not the point of this post though.

To the few people that said this was a good hit. You are wrong. I didn't expect malone to avoid the check. I just would have liked to see him stand up strait but he went into campoli bent over, full steam ahead. But that is not what this post is about either.

I am here for all the people complaining about the hit. Don't get upset about hits like this. You are going to wear yourself out. The season hasn't even started yet. teams are going to be hitting montreal players in general all year long like this. I understand how you feel. I was once like you. Crying and complaining how montreal is being picked on. Then after patches got injured I knew that montreal was about to change. I knew that Pierre Gauthier would not stand for it and I knew the molson brothers would not stand for it. I thought the canadiens would go sign edit an enforcer and turn him loose. Of course we could have signed Konopka for $700000. We could have signed 250lb Steve Macintyre for $500000 and if we did campoli doesn't get hit, guaranteed. A guy like that would spare us a lot of injuries.

So you have to do the math. I firmly believe that pierre Gauthier was aware that chara was responsible for the hit on patches.And I believe that Gauthier's response of doing nothing about it in the off season was intentional. His decision was that we don't need to fight our own battles, that should be the referees job. What we need is to use up our cap space with a bunch of extra defense men. That way if a player gets hurt, you put in a new player and if he gets hurt you put in a new player and when he gets hurt, well by that time the first player to get hurt should be healed enough to go in and get hurt again. It's the perfect system.

I don't want to put this all on gauthier. It has been montreal's goal to stay wimpy now for the last 10 to 15 years. Gauthier may have said I'm going to get a guy who can protect our players and upper management said no, I don't know.

So we are montreal fans. There is no way out of it. I know we are wimpy, most of you know we are wimpy. We have to sit and wait patiently until montreal is able to figure out what the rest of the NHL knows all too well. How long will it take for montreal to figure it out? I don't know. But dirty hits and non suspensions are sure to speed up the pace on montreal's learning curve. Another 10 years of being abused and humiliated might just do it. But right now this is our organization's plan. So celebrate these dirty hits on our habs and celebrate the non calls because they add up. Some day they will reach a tipping point and a light bulb will go off in the organization's head and we will start building a hockey team that the rest of the NHL will be forced to respect.

One last thought. How would your self esteem and self confidence be playing on a wimpy team and look what happens to wimpy players that get let go by their wimpy team and then get picked up by tough teams.

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I don't know where some people are getting the idea that Malone had a full 1.5 to 2 seconds to bail out on that hit. Here is the progression in screen captures.

1. Campoli crosses the goal line upright, head up, and with the puck. If Campoli keeps this position, Malone delivers a big, legal, open ice check.

rIZSj.png

2. Campoli hits the circle, loses the puck, and starts to lower his head. In real time, the RDS clock is only just ticking down to 7:52.

xgWeh.png

3. Campoli hasn't even hit the faceoff marks before he's fully vulnerable.

QMQ0K.png

4. Contact. In real time, the RDS clock hasn't even hit 7:51.

XxEUP.png

Between images 2 and 4 is about half a second. If you go back a full 2 seconds from contact, Campoli hasn't even picked up the puck from behind the net.

I see you'r still trying to break this down in seconds , i choose to throw a punch at you as hard as I can if you slow it down and use a clock i bet you ( and I'm older and slower now ) That you could break down the expresion of anger on my face and the time it takes to deliver the blow in less than 1/2 a second , upon review you could say I was committed to throwing the punch just as you put you're self in a vulnerable position to recieve the blow ;) , then I could claim I didn't have any real intention of throwing said punch was going to be fair warning and I shouldn't be held responsible ! Not saying I want to hit you as I respect yer opinion I just still disagree with it ! B)

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I watched the tampa game with a couple friends. They both agreed that the hit on campoli would result in a suspension. One of my friends was even a toronto fan. I wasn't able to convince them that there was no way a suspension would be called. I tried to explain that this was not a toronto player that got hit. No, it was a lowly montreal player and of no consequence. They thought I was being sarcastic. I wasn't. That's not the point of this post though.

To the few people that said this was a good hit. You are wrong. I didn't expect malone to avoid the check. I just would have liked to see him stand up strait but he went into campoli bent over, full steam ahead. But that is not what this post is about either.

I am here for all the people complaining about the hit. Don't get upset about hits like this. You are going to wear yourself out. The season hasn't even started yet. teams are going to be hitting montreal players in general all year long like this. I understand how you feel. I was once like you. Crying and complaining how montreal is being picked on. Then after patches got injured I knew that montreal was about to change. I knew that Pierre Gauthier would not stand for it and I knew the molson brothers would not stand for it. I thought the canadiens would go sign an enforcer and turn him loose. Of course we could have signed Konopka for $700000. We could have signed 250lb Steve Macintyre for $500000 and if we did campoli doesn't get hit, guaranteed. A guy like that would spare us a lot of injuries.

So you have to do the math. I firmly believe that pierre Gauthier was aware that chara was responsible for the hit on patches.And I believe that Gauthier's response of doing nothing about it in the off season was intentional. His decision was that we don't need to fight our own battles, that should be the referees job. What we need is to use up our cap space with a bunch of extra defense men. That way if a player gets hurt, you put in a new player and if he gets hurt you put in a new player and when he gets hurt, well by that time the first player to get hurt should be healed enough to go in and get hurt again. It's the perfect system.

I don't want to put this all on gauthier. It has been montreal's goal to stay wimpy now for the last 10 to 15 years. Gauthier may have said I'm going to get a guy who can protect our players and upper management said no, I don't know.

So we are montreal fans. There is no way out of it. I know we are wimpy, most of you know we are wimpy. We have to sit and wait patiently until montreal is able to figure out what the rest of the NHL knows all too well. How long will it take for montreal to figure it out? I don't know. But dirty hits and non suspensions are sure to speed up the pace on montreal's learning curve. Another 10 years of being abused and humiliated might just do it. But right now this is our organization's plan. So celebrate these dirty hits on our habs and celebrate the non calls because they add up. Some day they will reach a tipping point and a light bulb will go off in the organization's head and we will start building a hockey team that the rest of the NHL will be forced to respect.

One last thought. How would your self esteem and self confidence be playing on a wimpy team and look what happens to wimpy players that get let go by their wimpy team and then get picked up by tough teams.

First off - sorry for the double post - forum seems to be running slow .

I do agree - HABS have to get bigger - we can't rely on the officials - so far it has'nt worked for us ie. Max now Campoli - GO HABS GO !!!!!!!!!!!!! .

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I watched the tampa game with a couple friends. They both agreed that the hit on campoli would result in a suspension. One of my friends was even a toronto fan. I wasn't able to convince them that there was no way a suspension would be called. I tried to explain that this was not a toronto player that got hit. No, it was a lowly montreal player and of no consequence. They thought I was being sarcastic. I wasn't. That's not the point of this post though.

To the few people that said this was a good hit. You are wrong. I didn't expect malone to avoid the check. I just would have liked to see him stand up strait but he went into campoli bent over, full steam ahead. But that is not what this post is about either.

I am here for all the people complaining about the hit. Don't get upset about hits like this. You are going to wear yourself out. The season hasn't even started yet. teams are going to be hitting montreal players in general all year long like this. I understand how you feel. I was once like you. Crying and complaining how montreal is being picked on. Then after patches got injured I knew that montreal was about to change. I knew that Pierre Gauthier would not stand for it and I knew the molson brothers would not stand for it. I thought the canadiens would go sign some an enforcer and turn him loose. Of course we could have signed Konopka for $700000. We could have signed 250lb Steve Macintyre for $500000 and if we did campoli doesn't get hit, guaranteed. A guy like that would spare us a lot of injuries.

So you have to do the math. I firmly believe that pierre Gauthier was aware that chara was responsible for the hit on patches.And I believe that Gauthier's response of doing nothing about it in the off season was intentional. His decision was that we don't need to fight our own battles, that should be the referees job. What we need is to use up our cap space with a bunch of extra defense men. That way if a player gets hurt, you put in a new player and if he gets hurt you put in a new player and when he gets hurt, well by that time the first player to get hurt should be healed enough to go in and get hurt again. It's the perfect system.

I don't want to put this all on gauthier. It has been montreal's goal to stay wimpy now for the last 10 to 15 years. Gauthier may have said I'm going to get a guy who can protect our players and upper management said no, I don't know.

So we are montreal fans. There is no way out of it. I know we are wimpy, most of you know we are wimpy. We have to sit and wait patiently until montreal is able to figure out what the rest of the NHL knows all too well. How long will it take for montreal to figure it out? I don't know. But dirty hits and non suspensions are sure to speed up the pace on montreal's learning curve. Another 10 years of being abused and humiliated might just do it. But right now this is our organization's plan. So celebrate these dirty hits on our habs and celebrate the non calls because they add up. Some day they will reach a tipping point and a light bulb will go off in the organization's head and we will start building a hockey team that the rest of the NHL will be forced to respect.

One last thought. How would your self esteem and self confidence be playing on a wimpy team and look what happens to wimpy players that get let go by their wimpy team and then get picked up by tough teams.

Welcome to the forum my sarcastic friend. I've been preaching the need for more toughness throughout the lineup like many people have for a long time. Unfortunately, the JM/PG combination is fundamentally against employing enforcers. I do not disagree with them. I disagree with their complete inability to build tough teams.

Jarome Iginla, Corey Perry, Ryan Malone, Milan Lucic, Steve Ott, Steve Downie, Nathan Horton, Todd Bertuzzi, Brenden Morrow, Shane Doan, Ryan Clowe, Scott Hartnell, Dustin Brown the list is endless of tough players around the league, old-time hockey players that can beat you on the scoreboard and beat you up. We have lacked that type of player since Shayne Corson was in his prime, which may be before half the forum members were born. The Habs as an organization fundamentally lack the ability to hone in on a true "power forward" . This isn't a knock on Cole or Pacioretty whom are both good players that I really like but neither of them will EVER be confused for anybody on that above list.

They are cervical/concussion history patients that I'm sure know better than to fight. Everybody else also knows they won't, thus removing some of the "power" from their label.

Do goons deter these type of hits? To me, the answer is no because the Pens employ 2-3 goons and Crosby/Malkin still get smoked every chance someone gets, the difference is the amount of after the whistle intimidation and/or deliberate attempts to injure are made on Habs players.

Campoli may still have been steamrolled regardless of who's on the Habs but the difference is we could have had better retribution than courageous Gorges can provide. I am not upset Malone didn't get suspended, I'm mildly surprised he didnt get 2 games but I objectively believe Shanny did stick to the same explanation he's given in every video.

I will leave everybody with some food for thought: WHAT DO THE SENATORS 95-98, DUCKS 98-02, 98 CANADIAN OLYMPIC TEAM AND HABS IN 09-PRESENT ALL FUNDAMENTALLY HAVE IN COMMON ?

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Welcome to the forum my sarcastic friend. I've been preaching the need for more toughness throughout the lineup like many people have for a long time. Unfortunately, the JM/PG combination is fundamentally against employing enforcers. I do not disagree with them. I disagree with their complete inability to build tough teams.

Jarome Iginla, Corey Perry, Ryan Malone, Milan Lucic, Steve Ott, Steve Downie, Nathan Horton, Todd Bertuzzi, Brenden Morrow, Shane Doan, Ryan Clowe, Scott Hartnell, Dustin Brown the list is endless of tough players around the league, old-time hockey players that can beat you on the scoreboard and beat you up. We have lacked that type of player since Shayne Corson was in his prime, which may be before half the forum members were born. The Habs as an organization fundamentally lack the ability to hone in on a true "power forward" . This isn't a knock on Cole or Pacioretty whom are both good players that I really like but neither of them will EVER be confused for anybody on that above list.

They are cervical/concussion history patients that I'm sure know better than to fight. Everybody else also knows they won't, thus removing some of the "power" from their label.

Do goons deter these type of hits? To me, the answer is no because the Pens employ 2-3 goons and Crosby/Malkin still get smoked every chance someone gets, the difference is the amount of after the whistle intimidation and/or deliberate attempts to injure are made on Habs players.

Campoli may still have been steamrolled regardless of who's on the Habs but the difference is we could have had better retribution than courageous Gorges can provide. I am not upset Malone didn't get suspended, I'm mildly surprised he didnt get 2 games but I objectively believe Shanny did stick to the same explanation he's given in every video.

I will leave everybody with some food for thought: WHAT DO THE SENATORS 95-98, DUCKS 98-02, 98 CANADIAN OLYMPIC TEAM AND HABS IN 09-PRESENT ALL FUNDAMENTALLY HAVE IN COMMON ?

Thanks for the welcome and good comments. To be honest I believe pretty much all hab fans know these comments to be true but some find it too hard to speak the truth about their beloved team. I could count myself among them until Montreal chose not to protect themselves by obtaining AT LEAST one enforcer in the off season.

I used to complain to no end when Montreal would get picked on but now I chose to place the blame where it belongs, with Montreal's decision makers.

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First off - sorry for the double post - forum seems to be running slow .

I do agree - HABS have to get bigger - we can't rely on the officials - so far it has'nt worked for us ie. Max now Campoli - GO HABS GO !!!!!!!!!!!!! .

Hey Rocketpower I had a hard time with the board too. I waited for my message to upload and I gave up assuming that the board was down, only to come back to rewrite my post and find it uploaded after all. I thought my post was so blunt that it knocked the board out. :lol:

Some members look down on people that write shorter posts but maybe some people are scared that they wont be able to remember what they wrote if the board goes down and they have to rewrite their post. Surprising that the board would be that slow late at night threw the week? :huh:

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I see you'r still trying to break this down in seconds , i choose to throw a punch at you as hard as I can if you slow it down and use a clock i bet you ( and I'm older and slower now ) That you could break down the expresion of anger on my face and the time it takes to deliver the blow in less than 1/2 a second , upon review you could say I was committed to throwing the punch just as you put you're self in a vulnerable position to recieve the blow ;) , then I could claim I didn't have any real intention of throwing said punch was going to be fair warning and I shouldn't be held responsible ! Not saying I want to hit you as I respect yer opinion I just still disagree with it ! B)

Malone never claimed he wasn't trying to hit Campoli. He most certainly was. The point is that Malone was coming in for a legal hit, and if it wasn't for a last moment falter by Campoli, everything would have been fine. Do you remember

? What if just before impact Marchand trips, Subban's back/butt/shoulder/whatever hits him in the head and crushes his face, putting him out for the next 6 months. Does Subban now deserve a suspension because he hit a guy in the head, even though he went in for a clean check? Of course not. This Malone hit is the exact same thing. If Campoli doesn't falter and he gets destroyed by a clean open ice hit, I'm fine with that, and to go even further it's the type of hit I'd be proud to see any of our Habs make. The fact that Shanahan is still giving the ok to play physical is the right thing to do. If you want to give out mandatory zero-tolerance penalties for head-shots, accidental or not, then that's one thing, but to impose zero-tolerance 5-6 game suspensions for any head-shot without breaking down a play, then I think that's ridiculous.

For those who are analyzing the hit logically I'm fine with debating and agreeing to disagree. But for those who would rather claim a conspiracy league-wide conspiracy against the Habs (I don't mean you Elkheart) instead of looking at the hit objectively, I have to say you sound a little silly.

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I see you'r still trying to break this down in seconds

I'm not sure why you feel it's a bad thing to break these hits down into snapshots like I'm doing. Every video Shanahan has put out so far has done the same (he freezes the video at key moments and explains the play and his logic), and until a couple days ago he was getting overwhelming praise. Just because this type of analysis is now going against a Hab doesn't make it invalid.

You and I can go back and forth and argue whether Malone had time to let up once Campoli was vulnerable, but that's subjective. However, if I post a video still like this

rIZSj.png

and state that this moment was less than a second before contact, then that's an objective fact. In the image above, Campoli looks like a perfectly legal target for a north/south hit to me, and he doesn't look unreasonably vulnerable. You can argue that in the next 0.5 seconds or so that Malone has a chance/duty to see Campoli falter and pull up on his hit, and I'll argue that it's not enough time (and Shanahan agrees). You can argue that Malone was going to hit him in the head regardless of whether he faltered, but I'll say you can't prove it. You can argue that the non-suspension is not consistent with other suspensions this year, and at that point it's up to both of us to debate why.

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1. Clock hits 7:53, Malone sees the play developing. You mention that around this time Campoli has his head down at moments, which is true, but he isn't sticking his neck out. Hitting a guy with his head down (in the sense that he's looking at the puck) is not illegal in itself.

1loJW.png

...

I think Shanahan's viewpoint on this was that even though Abdelkader was leaned over, he never really changed his head position in relation to his body like Campoli did, so the onus was on MacArthur to hit him squarely. I think the Smith situation was similar. Chicago's Smith did move in the sense he slowed up, but his head never really changed position in relation to his body, so the onus was on Detroit's Smith to hit squarely. I think it's also worth noting that both these hits involved skaters traveling in the same direction. It may not have had anything to do with the decision, but IMO it puts a little more control in the hitter's hands.

Anyways, that's just my opinion. I definitely see your point too, and obviously it's a bit of a tricky call for all three hits. I don't envy Shanahan's job.

Even in this first picture you posted though, you can see Campoli is hunched over behind his net at 7:53... he then straightens out and then puts his head back down as he reaches for the puck. But if one second (or slightly less than one second) is not enough time for Malone to change his mind about the hit, then when exactly did Malone decide he was going to level Campoli? If it's 2 seconds before the hit, then Campoli is already skating around the net with his head down, which would mean Malone was targeting a player with his head low. If it's right at the time Campoli lifts his head for one second, then it means Malone had time to decide he was going to make the hit in less than a second... and that to me means he should have had time to ease up on the hit in the one second Campoli puts his head down too. Again, my point is that you can use time cut-offs and number of strides and talk about how Campoli changed his head angle by 28 degrees but Abdelader only changed his by 17 degrees or whatever the league wants, but the bottom line is that this was a head shot on a defenceless player. Campoli may have moved his head up and down as he followed the puck, but this was not the case of a sudden movement that altered his vulnerability; Campoli was vulnerable as a player coming around the net while being hooked, so whether his head is down or not, he's in a state where the opposing player has to be wary of what kind of contact he will make. It doesn't mean he still can't make a clean hit, but the onus is now on the hitting player to identify what is going to be acceptable. As I've said a number of times, if the league was really serious about player safety, this debate wouldn't even exist. They would have sat Malone for 5-6 games and passed the message along that head shots will not be tolerated and that you have to learn to play the game without taking chances on vulnerable players.

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This hockey play (right!). It is like when in a fight one guy holds you while another comes in to crunch you... if you're good with that and think its clean... then what can I say. It does say alot about where you stand on these things.

What caused Campoli to lose the puck and reach forward?... a hook by another Tampa player. Campoli made the right play (not the wrong one... which it has to be to be blamed for the incident). The league has to go back a little further in the development of a play to determine if someone else was at fault for putting a player in a vulnerable position... which, IMO, is the case regarding Campoli. In the end a vulnerable player was targetted... and that, to me at least, should be a suspendable offense. And it was from the get-go regardless of timing.

What we think (even if we were all in agreement) means squat! This is the NHL brass on the fly trying to be politically incorrect with a purpose... deliberately perpetuating and maintaining grey areas to suit their inconsistent ways. In the end, it says alot about where they stand on what I first mentioned above. Back to square one... right where the league brass really wants to stay.

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Malone never claimed he wasn't trying to hit Campoli. He most certainly was. The point is that Malone was coming in for a legal hit, and if it wasn't for a last moment falter by Campoli, everything would have been fine.

Correct. Malone was always only interested in the offensive zone hit. He had no interest in loose pucks. The sudden availability of Campoli's head was a bonus and he 'leaped' at it. What Campoli did not recognize and take into account was:

  • Malone can be a moron
  • Malone was on the warpath, running around, disinterested in winning a game that was lost (again, @BlameItOnSubban)
  • The score was Habs 4-1, with 8 minutes to go

In contrast, Malone was aware of all that. A meaningful game with a tight score and Malone goes for the loose puck in the offensive zone rather than letting it go and lining up this guy with his head down (it was "down" looking at the puck from coming around the net; it just went more "down" when he lost control of the puck).

I am not 'blaming' Campoli; but like the NHL he himself was oblivious of the situation/context (who's on the ice running around in a meaningless game). I expect next time he'll be more aware. Malone wasn't unawares, and had a different agenda; one that did not involve trying to win that specific game (any more). He "wins" this episode. Could be different when a Hab lines him up later this season in a game with the score out of the Habs reach. We'll see.

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Hey Rocketpower I had a hard time with the board too. I waited for my message to upload and I gave up assuming that the board was down, only to come back to rewrite my post and find it uploaded after all. I thought my post was so blunt that it knocked the board out. :lol:

Some members look down on people that write shorter posts but maybe some people are scared that they wont be able to remember what they wrote if the board goes down and they have to rewrite their post. Surprising that the board would be that slow late at night threw the week? :huh:

Thanks CATATAFISH - I try to keep my posts short and to the point - like your outlook on the HABS - Welcome to the Forums . :)

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A high stick is a high stick, it doesn't matter if you meant it or not. A hit to the head is a hit to the head and it should not matter if you meant it or not.

This is not about two players falling into each other. This is about one player lining up another player for the hit. If the point of contact is the head you have to be held accountable.........

This is even more unbelievable then the hit on patches that the league turned a blind eye to. The simple fact that they have called every hit to the head this preseason and allow this to fly by is really unbelievable????

This only points to one thing, as the season progresses there will be less and less calls for head shots, as the playoffs arrives there will be none and by this time next season it will start all over again.

This league is really becoming a joke. The rule should be simple and easy to follow. if you are intending to check a player and your first point of contact is the head for what ever reason you shoul be held accountable......

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I agree with Norman Flynn of RDS... he has lost respect for Brendan Shanahan... so have I.

Hang on Brendan....gonna be one hell of a bumpy ride.......here we have Brendan just getting his feet wet in his new position,and though I do believe he missed the boat on this call in question.....IMO,i feel & believe he's the right man for the job.

Gonna be a long season,filled with controversy ,missed calls to some,great decisions on others....heated moments in a grey area so to speak.

Way to early for me to throw Brendan under the bus,hell....pre-season just got done.....and I was ok with the calls/suspensions he made.

Ya ,this one involving Chris is a tough pill to swallow,will admit.

My 2 cents.<_<

The rule should be simple and easy to follow. if you are intending to check a player and your first point of contact is the head for what ever reason you should be held accountable......

I do agree here.

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A high stick is a high stick, it doesn't matter if you meant it or not. A hit to the head is a hit to the head and it should not matter if you meant it or not.

This is not about two players falling into each other. This is about one player lining up another player for the hit. If the point of contact is the head you have to be held accountable.........

This is even more unbelievable then the hit on patches that the league turned a blind eye to. The simple fact that they have called every hit to the head this preseason and allow this to fly by is really unbelievable????

This only points to one thing, as the season progresses there will be less and less calls for head shots, as the playoffs arrives there will be none and by this time next season it will start all over again.

This league is really becoming a joke. The rule should be simple and easy to follow. if you are intending to check a player and your first point of contact is the head for what ever reason you shoul be held accountable......

Agreed. Some of shannys decision have also involved recklessness as a factor. Malone looking to hurt someone is reckless. Taking 3 strides (i.e. charging) to hit someone with their head low is reckless.

And I'll say it again. Average human reaction time is something like 0.2 seconds. He had lots of time to see campolis head and analyze a way to avoid it, but he chose the stick out elbow option. "Just prior" is vague. I had a shower prior to leaving for work. Does that mean 10 minutes or 2 seconds?

Whatever. It's even more insulting because Chara wasn't suspended. Jacques, protect our players! Stand up, speak out, show some emotion, who cares if you get fined. Show you have more backbone than this new puppet.

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