Jump to content
The Official Site of the Montréal Canadiens
Canadiens de Montreal

2012-13 State Of The Habs


Recommended Posts

Sorry, DA, I've removed the link. While Corey Pronman definitely has insight into the prospect world, his site has sections that he charges for to view content. As such, we've considered links he posted here to constitute promotion with personal gain involved. You are welcome to cite info and source it without the link, but we cannot allow the direct link unfortunately.

What's the official rule? No pay sites, or no blogs, or both?

Are we allowed to link to RDS.ca even though one needs cable to watch RDS?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What's the official rule? No pay sites, or no blogs, or both?

Are we allowed to link to RDS.ca even though one needs cable to watch RDS?

GHC has just posted an update to the rules. Check out the COC for the latest.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Too bad we couldn't make more of a splash in free agency this season. It would have been a great way for the new management to make a statement.

There are still some top 6 guys out there. I'm not holding out hope, but you never know. Perhaps now that Nash has been dealt, other pieces will start to be traded/signed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are still some top 6 guys out there. I'm not holding out hope, but you never know. Perhaps now that Nash has been dealt, other pieces will start to be traded/signed.

it looks like MB is going for a rebuild he is going to wait for the previous draft picks that previous management made to mature.we could be in for some tough games to watch for the next few years which is OK as long as team is improving year after year. MB hasnt added anyone to the team i guess hes to buisy hiring new management people,( PK is still not sighned.)

Too bad we couldn't make more of a splash in free agency this season. It would have been a great way for the new management to make a statement.

absolutely right on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

After the P.K. Subban signing we are going to be the team with the third or fourth highest cap in the league. Kind of embarrassing to think about given last season's finish. I hope Bergevin's plan in 2012-2013 is to clear some space for Max Pacioretty to be resigned next summer. He may also have to find cash for David Desharnais.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

After the P.K. Subban signing we are going to be the team with the third or fourth highest cap in the league. Kind of embarrassing to think about given last season's finish. I hope Bergevin's plan in 2012-2013 is to clear some space for Max Pacioretty to be resigned next summer. He may also have to find cash for David Desharnais.

Bang for your Buck.... doesn't apply with the Habs for the most part ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

After the P.K. Subban signing we are going to be the team with the third or fourth highest cap in the league. Kind of embarrassing to think about given last season's finish. I hope Bergevin's plan in 2012-2013 is to clear some space for Max Pacioretty to be resigned next summer. He may also have to find cash for David Desharnais.

I suppose so, but the Scott Gomez and Tomas Kaberle contracts really inflate that number. Once they're off the books, we'll be sitting pretty with respect to the cap. The unfortunate part is we don't really have any big contracts coming off the books in the next year, so we might have to get a bit creative for a year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I suppose so, but the Scott Gomez and Tomas Kaberle contracts really inflate that number. Once they're off the books, we'll be sitting pretty with respect to the cap. The unfortunate part is we don't really have any big contracts coming off the books in the next year, so we might have to get a bit creative for a year.

Well... Yeah, those contracts do inflate the cap, but it's not like other teams don't have bad contracts either. We can't just pretend our cap management is good because Scott Gomez and Tomas Kaberle aren't supposed to count or something. They are an annoying issue that I hope the team is rid of by next summer. Hopefully Kaberle regains some of his Toronto form and can be traded before this year's deadline. Pacioretty alone is probably going to end up with a deal around $5 million or $6 million.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well... Yeah, those contracts do inflate the cap, but it's not like other teams don't have bad contracts either. We can't just pretend our cap management is good because Scott Gomez and Tomas Kaberle aren't supposed to count or something. They are an annoying issue that I hope the team is rid of by next summer. Hopefully Kaberle regains some of his Toronto form and can be traded before this year's deadline. Pacioretty alone is probably going to end up with a deal around $5 million or $6 million.

Kaberle is nowhere near as bad as people make him out to be.

There's a reason he got a relatively short deal and not huge money AND signed late in the Summer when he finally hit UFA...he's a flawed d-man and GM's know it.

But he also has many assets he brings to the table, and is wildly underrated by Habs fans.

The cap concerns are incredibly minor, people are misguided if they think the reason Bergevin didn't make a big splash this year was because of Gomez' contract...the market was horrible after Parise/Suter and they weren't coming to Montreal.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

After the P.K. Subban signing we are going to be the team with the third or fourth highest cap in the league. Kind of embarrassing to think about given last season's finish. I hope Bergevin's plan in 2012-2013 is to clear some space for Max Pacioretty to be resigned next summer. He may also have to find cash for David Desharnais.

The good news is that the Habs have fairly solid revenue lines that aren't likely to dry up like other teams. As a result, they can really afford to bury a contract or two in the minors or Europe. As bad as our cap issues are now, at the very least we're only two years away from having lots of flexibility, with Gomez, Gionta, markov, and kaberle all coming off the books and giving us well over 20m to work with. It's unfortunate that we have guys like Bourque and moen locked up long-term, but I suppose it's better than those ridiculous 10-15 year deals some teams have handed out. I'm curious to see what happens when some of these guys reach 38 but don't want to retire and hold their teams to a 6-7 million cap hit for a mediocre player... there will be a lot of Gomez-like situations floating around at some point, and we need to make sure we avoid those.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Kaberle is nowhere near as bad as people make him out to be.

There's a reason he got a relatively short deal and not huge money AND signed late in the Summer when he finally hit UFA...he's a flawed d-man and GM's know it.

But he also has many assets he brings to the table, and is wildly underrated by Habs fans.

The cap concerns are incredibly minor, people are misguided if they think the reason Bergevin didn't make a big splash this year was because of Gomez' contract...the market was horrible after Parise/Suter and they weren't coming to Montreal.

yea but were they trying to get those guys anyways they are going to talk to shane doan (coyotes)he is 36 years old and was making 4.5 mill last year on a small market team he will want at least 6mill year from the habs and probably for 3-4 years i think that would be a mistake unless they can sighn him for 1year at a time at say no more than 5 mill.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Kaberle is nowhere near as bad as people make him out to be.

There's a reason he got a relatively short deal and not huge money AND signed late in the Summer when he finally hit UFA...he's a flawed d-man and GM's know it.

But he also has many assets he brings to the table, and is wildly underrated by Habs fans.

The cap concerns are incredibly minor, people are misguided if they think the reason Bergevin didn't make a big splash this year was because of Gomez' contract...the market was horrible after Parise/Suter and they weren't coming to Montreal.

Exactly! Kaberle isn't a Gomez situation where he's playing substantially below his contract value. For whatever reason he was labeled a "problem" before he played his first game and I feel that, since then, people have been seeing the negatives but not the positives. The guy is a multi-year all-star who is still reasonably young and is making 4.2 million dollars. His play has abviously declined a bit, sure, but it hasn't fallen to anywhere near the level that some make it out to be.

Check out some comparables on capgeek.com: http://www.capgeek.com/comparables.php?season=2012&player=182. Kaberle isn't going to play like Doughty or Suter but he also isn't paid like them. As long as he keeps up to guys like Ed Jovanovski, Mark Streit, Christian Ehrhoff, Marek Zidlicky and Ron Hainsey we'll be fine. And as KeepItReal pointed out, he's also on a shorter-term contract than any of those guys.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Exactly! Kaberle isn't a Gomez situation where he's playing substantially below his contract value. For whatever reason he was labeled a "problem" before he played his first game and I feel that, since then, people have been seeing the negatives but not the positives. The guy is a multi-year all-star who is still reasonably young and is making 4.2 million dollars. His play has abviously declined a bit, sure, but it hasn't fallen to anywhere near the level that some make it out to be.

Check out some comparables on capgeek.com: http://www.capgeek.com/comparables.php?season=2012&player=182. Kaberle isn't going to play like Doughty or Suter but he also isn't paid like them. As long as he keeps up to guys like Ed Jovanovski, Mark Streit, Christian Ehrhoff, Marek Zidlicky and Ron Hainsey we'll be fine. And as KeepItReal pointed out, he's also on a shorter-term contract than any of those guys.

Yup! And if Markov is healthy, and Diaz continues to progress, and depending on where they are in the standings they could potentially deal him for some picks/prospects. All this talk about burying him confuses me to no end.

The good news is that the Habs have fairly solid revenue lines that aren't likely to dry up like other teams. As a result, they can really afford to bury a contract or two in the minors or Europe. As bad as our cap issues are now, at the very least we're only two years away from having lots of flexibility, with Gomez, Gionta, markov, and kaberle all coming off the books and giving us well over 20m to work with. It's unfortunate that we have guys like Bourque and moen locked up long-term, but I suppose it's better than those ridiculous 10-15 year deals some teams have handed out. I'm curious to see what happens when some of these guys reach 38 but don't want to retire and hold their teams to a 6-7 million cap hit for a mediocre player... there will be a lot of Gomez-like situations floating around at some point, and we need to make sure we avoid those.

What????

It's unfortunate that Moen is locked up for 4 years? How so? He makes 1.8 and is a fantastic bottom 6 player who is great on the PK.

How is this a bad thing in any way?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yup! And if Markov is healthy, and Diaz continues to progress, and depending on where they are in the standings they could potentially deal him for some picks/prospects. All this talk about burying him confuses me to no end.

What????

It's unfortunate that Moen is locked up for 4 years? How so? He makes 1.8 and is a fantastic bottom 6 player who is great on the PK.

How is this a bad thing in any way?

Moen will be what, 36-37 when his contract is up?

I just dont understand why we lock bottom 6 players into 4 year contracts IMO.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Moen will be what, 36-37 when his contract is up?

I just dont understand why we lock bottom 6 players into 4 year contracts IMO.

Why not? Having a strong bottom 6 that can actually play consistent strong hockey is huge. The positive effect it has on the top lines is immeasurable.

I can't believe anyone would complain about a 1.875 cap hit for Moen for the next 4 years. Top PKing winger, cup winner, great defensive guy, can play 17 minutes in a night in a pinch, great teammate. Where the hell is the downside?

Also, he won't be 36, or 37 when his contract is up. He'll be 34.

He'll be 34. I wouldn't say having him on that term is a negative or constraint, it's just a little pointless.

I don't understand what is pointless about signing a great bottom 6 guy who brings all of the things Moen brings to the table every night is "pointless", could you please elaborate?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why not? Having a strong bottom 6 that can actually play consistent strong hockey is huge. The positive effect it has on the top lines is immeasurable.

I can't believe anyone would complain about a 1.875 cap hit for Moen for the next 4 years. Top PKing winger, cup winner, great defensive guy, can play 17 minutes in a night in a pinch, great teammate. Where the hell is the downside?

Also, he won't be 36, or 37 when his contract is up. He'll be 34.

I don't understand what is pointless about signing a great bottom 6 guy who brings all of the things Moen brings to the table every night is "pointless", could you please elaborate?

The fact that he was virtually invisible here until his contract season

I like the guy, but I think 4 years is too long and in the first 2 years of his contract I was not a big fan of his on ice performance. Numerous missed chances on empty nets and wasn't standing up for his teammates as much as I thought he would/as much as some fans seem to think he was.

Maybe with added grit he will do better though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The fact that he was virtually invisible here until his contract season

I like the guy, but I think 4 years is too long and in the first 2 years of his contract I was not a big fan of his on ice performance. Numerous missed chances on empty nets and wasn't standing up for his teammates as much as I thought he would/as much as some fans seem to think he was.

Maybe with added grit he will do better though.

I think/hope this is true. You can't have one or two middle weights stick up for a whole team. It has to be a team effort. You need three or six hard nosed guys in there. Moen isn't a juggernaut but he can be a piece of the toughness/grit puzzle!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You know what, I'm actually happy that MB didn't go out and try to rebuild the team in one summer. He picked up important character guys, but saw that there wasn't much available this season, so he's holding onto Molsons money.

A lot of rookie GM's like to blow up the team and show they mean business. But what's the point of throwing money and signing a player long term simply cos he's the only player available?

Next seasons UFA market may be a lil better. Habs will also have a few prospects that are much closer to joining the show.

We're not winning the cup this season, no point pulling a BG and blowing up the team with a weak FA pool.

Doan is interesting though, not convinced he's a top 6, but if he joins our Habs as a 2nd liner, he will add grit and toughness. Something the habs have been lacking.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The fact that he was virtually invisible here until his contract season

I like the guy, but I think 4 years is too long and in the first 2 years of his contract I was not a big fan of his on ice performance. Numerous missed chances on empty nets and wasn't standing up for his teammates as much as I thought he would/as much as some fans seem to think he was.

Maybe with added grit he will do better though.

Moen isn't a minor leaguer with good hands who became a HNL grinder. He's going to miss nets and he'll always be a disappointment in the top 6.

Moen did what he could over the last few years, but he hasn't had any backup. There's only so much one player can do. Now that MB has added toughness to our bottom line, I feel confident that we'll see a different Moen now he's not expected to be a grinder, a fighter, agitator and top line winger.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You know what, I'm actually happy that MB didn't go out and try to rebuild the team in one summer. He picked up important character guys, but saw that there wasn't much available this season, so he's holding onto Molsons money.

A lot of rookie GM's like to blow up the team and show they mean business. But what's the point of throwing money and signing a player long term simply cos he's the only player available?

Next seasons UFA market may be a lil better. Habs will also have a few prospects that are much closer to joining the show.

We're not winning the cup this season, no point pulling a BG and blowing up the team with a weak FA pool.

Doan is interesting though, not convinced he's a top 6, but if he joins our Habs as a 2nd liner, he will add grit and toughness. Something the habs have been lacking.

Great post.

I'd like to add to the above statement: I think the Habs were the best last place team in the NHL of the last decade. Yes, my opinion is biased but we're Habs fans so it's not like we're blindly optimistic, particularly me. I've been watching and following the NHL for 25 years, very infrequently will a team finish in dead last for the conference without getting blown out multiple times, while having 2 30 goal scorers, 4 50 point scorers, the number one PK and an All-Star goaltender. This team has a core that is better than meets the eye.

Not a cup contender but with growth by young players, a couple of gritty additions and one or 2 smart moves we will be back in the contender conversation within 3 years. Ultimately, I feel like this team as it stands will battle for a spot in the playoffs this year and depending on some players like Eller, Subban, Emelin making the "jump" from good to very good might surprisingly lock down a low tier spot. That would be a huge success coming off a last place finish but becomes more valuable because it doesn't appear as though our current GM will sell the farm to "just" make the playoffs.

This regime is hoping to do the opposite of the previous one: Start low, rise high : 15th > 8-10th > 4-6th > Perennial Conference finalist/cup contender. IMO, that isn't done in 1 month or 1 season especially with another CBA Armageddon on the horizon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why not? Having a strong bottom 6 that can actually play consistent strong hockey is huge. The positive effect it has on the top lines is immeasurable.

I can't believe anyone would complain about a 1.875 cap hit for Moen for the next 4 years. Top PKing winger, cup winner, great defensive guy, can play 17 minutes in a night in a pinch, great teammate. Where the hell is the downside?

Also, he won't be 36, or 37 when his contract is up. He'll be 34.

I don't understand what is pointless about signing a great bottom 6 guy who brings all of the things Moen brings to the table every night is "pointless", could you please elaborate?

I didn't mean signing him was pointless, I meant the 4 years term was, as in unnecessarily long for a bottom 6 guy. He's still young enough to be useful for the entire contract so I don't see going long term as bad or anything, just not necessary...pointless. B)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Great post.

I'd like to add to the above statement: I think the Habs were the best last place team in the NHL of the last decade. Yes, my opinion is biased but we're Habs fans so it's not like we're blindly optimistic, particularly me. I've been watching and following the NHL for 25 years, very infrequently will a team finish in dead last for the conference without getting blown out multiple times, while having 2 30 goal scorers, 4 50 point scorers, the number one PK and an All-Star goaltender. This team has a core that is better than meets the eye.

Not a cup contender but with growth by young players, a couple of gritty additions and one or 2 smart moves we will be back in the contender conversation within 3 years. Ultimately, I feel like this team as it stands will battle for a spot in the playoffs this year and depending on some players like Eller, Subban, Emelin making the "jump" from good to very good might surprisingly lock down a low tier spot. That would be a huge success coming off a last place finish but becomes more valuable because it doesn't appear as though our current GM will sell the farm to "just" make the playoffs.

This regime is hoping to do the opposite of the previous one: Start low, rise high : 15th > 8-10th > 4-6th > Perennial Conference finalist/cup contender. IMO, that isn't done in 1 month or 1 season especially with another CBA Armageddon on the horizon.

Ive decided to analyze this

2012

28th overall Montreal:

2 30 goal scorers

4 50+ point players

1 All Star

1 All Star Rookie

2nd Overall Penalty Kill

28 Overall Powerplay

19 Goal for per game (tied with edmonton)

11th Goals against per game

29th Edmonton:

3 50+ point players

1 30 goal scorer

1 All Star

14 Overall PK

3rd Overall Powerplay

20th Goals for Per game

23rd Goals Against per game

30th Columbus

2 50 point players

1 30 goal scorer

24 overall Powerplay

30 overall penalty kill

1 All Star Rookie

28th Goals Against per game

26th Goals for Per game

2011

30th overall Edmonton

No 50 point scorers

No 30 Goal Scorers

27 Overall Powerplay

29 overall Penalty KIll

28 Goals for per game

28 Goals Against per game

1 All Star Rookie

29th Overall Colorado

11th Overall PP

30th Overall PK

18th Overall GF

30th Overall GA

1 All Star

1 All Star Rookie

3 50 Point Scorers

No 30 Goal Scorers

28th Overall Florida

30th Overall PP

6th Overall PK

27th OVerall GF

14 Overall GA

No 50 Point Scorers

No 30 Goal Scorers (Not even 25)

1 All Star Rookie

2010

30th Overall Edmonton

18 Overall PP

26 Overall PK

27 Overall GF

30 Overall GA

1 50 point scorer

1 30 Goal Scorer (the only 20+)

No All Stars due to Olympics however 2 played for Russia and Slovakia

29th Overall Toronto (hehe)

30th Overall PP

30th Overall PK

26th Overall GF

29th Overall GA

1 50 Point Scorer (and 1 49)

1 30 Goal Scorer

3 Olympians (Sweden, Czech, and USA)

28th Overall Florida

29th Overall PP

23rd Overall PK

28th Overall GF

19th Overall GA

2 50 Point Scorers

No 30 Goal Scorers

2 Olympians (Germany and Czech)

So if you note we appear to be the best bottom 3 team out of the last 3 seasons. How toronto managed to finish behind edmonton in 09-10 is beyond me.

But yeah, were not bad

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...