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BigTed3

2012-13 Habs Lines

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2 things. 1. Gionta is no shut down guy, hes 5'6" or 7". He can kill penalties because he is one of a few right hand shots on the team and speed can kill penalties, but he does NOT go up against crosby and Giroux at any point of a game.

2. The young players will flourish under Therian's coaching, LeBlanc is being moulded into a shut down guy, plus he 6 ft tall and prob. close to 200 lbs. I was thinking of a shut down line actually when I mentioned Eller-Pleks-LeBlanc line, LeBlanc would be a nice fit with the two I think.

Peoples hatred for gomez is blocking their hockey vision

I see what you're saying about Gio, he's not very physical and relies on speed to make up for his short stature. Neither is Pleks, he may flaps the lips from time to time after a whistle, but he usually just skates away and often has trouble against bigger forwards. Pleks is just a very smart hockey player, knows how to get in the passing lanes, annoy the opposition(by shadowing) and very good at anticipating plays. Not all shutdown guys have to be 6' and taller. It helps when playing against a big physical team, but Pleks has shown that he can be quite effective despite his small frame. Even DD played on a PK unit last season and did alright. We did have one of the best PK's in the NHL last season (PK, not PP).

I believe MT will be good for the short term. Give us some grit and structure not seen under JM. I really don't see MT here long term, the pens simply stopped playing for him after calling out the team in the media. I believe it's just a matter of time before he does the same thing in Montreal.

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2 things. 1. Gionta is no shut down guy, hes 5'6" or 7". He can kill penalties because he is one of a few right hand shots on the team and speed can kill penalties, but he does NOT go up against crosby and Giroux at any point of a game.

2. The young players will flourish under Therian's coaching, LeBlanc is being moulded into a shut down guy, plus he 6 ft tall and prob. close to 200 lbs. I was thinking of a shut down line actually when I mentioned Eller-Pleks-LeBlanc line, LeBlanc would be a nice fit with the two I think.

Peoples hatred for gomez is blocking their hockey vision

Gionta is our second best RW behind Cole. He's a good all-around hockey player that can produce twenty goals while playing responsible hockey, from a "hockey vision" standpoint that's sounds like an ideal fit for Plekanec wing. Gomez has nothing to do with the fact that Gionta and Pleks make hockey sense as a duo.

Again, we just see the game differently. I don't agree with you and you don't with me, let's just leave it there.

Edited by MIASUN
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Are we really talking about giving Gomez another 20 games to prove himself?

He's had 3 years to prove his worth to the team. I think he's a great locker room guy, a mentor for youngins and well experienced in the playoffs (won 2 cups), he's also one of the few players we have who can gain the offensive zone.

But we could easily find all those qualities in a player who won't eat up 7.5 mil in cap space if that is truly what we need.

I can't believe after 3 years, we're still saying, "maybe we should give him another chance...".

I do feel bad for Scott, but on the other hand, no one put a gun to his head and forced him to take such a big contract. Let's not forget that NY weren't happy with him either, which is why Sather was more than willing to ship him here the moment BG mentioned Scott's name. Had Gomez lived up to his contract, it would've taken a lot more than Higgins and a promising defensive prospect to get the deal done.

Gionta is our second best RW behind Cole. He's a good all-around hockey player that can produce twenty goals while playing responsible hockey, from a "hockey vision" standpoint that's sounds like an ideal fit for Plekanec wing. Gomez has nothing to do with the fact that Gionta and Pleks make hockey sense as a duo.

Again, we just see the game differently. I don't agree with you and you don't with me, let's just leave it there.

Actually, forgetting last years injury woes, he's scored 25+ goals a season since coming here. Gio is not an issue in my books. If he stays healthy, we can almost guarantee we'll see 25 goals from him. He even managed to score 25+ goals in consecutive seasons despite having a struggling centreman. So pairing him with a gun-ho centreman like pleks, we could finally see Gio hit the 30 goal mark.

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Gionta is our second best RW behind Cole. He's a good all-around hockey player that can produce twenty goals while playing responsible hockey, from a "hockey vision" standpoint that's sounds like an ideal fit for Plekanec wing. Gomez has nothing to do with the fact that Gionta and Pleks make hockey sense as a duo.

Again, we just see the game differently. I don't agree with you and you don't with me, let's just leave it there.

whats the fun in that

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I see what you're saying about Gio, he's not very physical and relies on speed to make up for his short stature. Neither is Pleks, he may flaps the lips from time to time after a whistle, but he usually just skates away and often has trouble against bigger forwards. Pleks is just a very smart hockey player, knows how to get in the passing lanes, annoy the opposition(by shadowing) and very good at anticipating plays. Not all shutdown guys have to be 6' and taller. It helps when playing against a big physical team, but Pleks has shown that he can be quite effective despite his small frame. Even DD played on a PK unit last season and did alright. We did have one of the best PK's in the NHL last season (PK, not PP).

I believe MT will be good for the short term. Give us some grit and structure not seen under JM. I really don't see MT here long term, the pens simply stopped playing for him after calling out the team in the media. I believe it's just a matter of time before he does the same thing in Montreal.

Every team is big and physical, even montreal now. Thats why i'd put eller and leblanc with pleks. He is smaller but has terrific hockey smarts, add a couple 6 foot wingers on his wing that can be 2 way players under the right guidance and ya have yourself a pretty good line. Gionta is just to small to be thrown into a shutdown role. He is a fast, skilled sniper who can be responsible in his own end but thats about as far a i'd go with him. Seems like a good captain, may not be too loud but leads with his effort game in game out.

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Are we really talking about giving Gomez another 20 games to prove himself?

He's had 3 years to prove his worth to the team. I think he's a great locker room guy, a mentor for youngins and well experienced in the playoffs (won 2 cups), he's also one of the few players we have who can gain the offensive zone.

But we could easily find all those qualities in a player who won't eat up 7.5 mil in cap space if that is truly what we need.

I can't believe after 3 years, we're still saying, "maybe we should give him another chance...".

I do feel bad for Scott, but on the other hand, no one put a gun to his head and forced him to take such a big contract. Let's not forget that NY weren't happy with him either, which is why Sather was more than willing to ship him here the moment BG mentioned Scott's name. Had Gomez lived up to his contract, it would've taken a lot more than Higgins and a promising defensive prospect to get the deal done.

Actually, forgetting last years injury woes, he's scored 25+ goals a season since coming here. Gio is not an issue in my books. If he stays healthy, we can almost guarantee we'll see 25 goals from him. He even managed to score 25+ goals in consecutive seasons despite having a struggling centreman. So pairing him with a gun-ho centreman like pleks, we could finally see Gio hit the 30 goal mark.

Have to give gomez a chance, he's here to stay, unless the GM can pull of the deal of the life time, thats the only reason i suggest it. I wish it was Deharnais Pleks and Eller down the middle but its not, have to live with it and have to make the best of it. Montreal wont buy him out and wont bury him in the minors, thats most likely outta the question, i just cant see them doing either happening.

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When and if there is a season, I'd like to start with this lineup:

Pacioretty-Desharnais-Cole

Eller-Plekanec-Gionta

Gomez-Galchenyuk-Armstrong

Moen-White-Prust

Nokalainen

Subban-Gorges

Markov-Emelin

Boullion-Diaz

Weber

After 9 games, Galchenyuk likely goes back to Sarnia, Gomez goes to 3rd line centre, Moen moves up to third line LW, White to 4th line LW and Noke takes his spot. Guys like LeBlanc/Palushaj/Geoffrion could get a spot but we dont have much room.

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i've noticed everyone has forgotten about Bourque.. lol imo this guy will have a bounce back season under MT.. the more i had thought about it the more i realized that MT is much more demanding then Sutter who bourque played well for.. how many times have we seen JM or RC yell at guys.. btw what happened to RC.

I would make a trade to anaheim for Ryan that would send gio kristo Diaz and for Ryan and a 3 rounder. Also i would make some sort of trade that would bring us both dwight king and jared nolan sooo probably this Gallager and Anaheims 3rd for Nolan White and a 2 rounder.

Patches Pleks Ryan

Eller DD Cole

Bourque gomez Moen

Prust Nolan King

Armstrong white

Subban Gorges

emelin Markov

Boullion Nash

Weber

Price

Desjardins/Budaj (give desjardins a chance to play back up as he is cheaper then Budaj)

This way we have gained much size and tenacity while adding guys who have won a cup and keeping alot of our core guys together.. Leadership in the locker room has increased so has dept at the forward position and our young promising defence prospects stay with us.

Edited by MkGee
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This year I would do

AlexG plek gionta

cole dd pac

and i'd almost consider throwing out this for our top 2 instead....

AlexG DD Pac

Cole Plek Gionta

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The key thing that's changed is that the guys in the minors have had half a year to get a leg up on experience. Galchenyuk has shown he has come back from his knee injury in top form and can dominate the AHL. Gallagher has shown he can compete at a professional level. Leblanc, on the other hand, may have lost some ground on an NHL job.

The other thing that's of note is the lack of an amnesty buyout until after this season. So that means Gomez, Kaberle, and Bourque have a decent chance of still being here for the upcoming year. Given all of the above, this is how I would have us starting the season:

Pacioretty-Plekanec-Gionta

Galchenyuk-Desharnais-Cole

Bourque-Eller-Gallagher

Armstrong-White-Prust

Moen-Gomez

Emelin-Subban

Markov-Gorges

Kaberle-Bouillon

Diaz

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The key thing that's changed is that the guys in the minors have had half a year to get a leg up on experience. Galchenyuk has shown he has come back from his knee injury in top form and can dominate the AHL. Gallagher has shown he can compete at a professional level. Leblanc, on the other hand, may have lost some ground on an NHL job.

The other thing that's of note is the lack of an amnesty buyout until after this season. So that means Gomez, Kaberle, and Bourque have a decent chance of still being here for the upcoming year. Given all of the above, this is how I would have us starting the season:

I think you mean the OHL, Ted :)

Edited by kinot-1
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Those calling for Galchenyuk to play this season need to realize hes a full year behind in development already. He doesn't need to be rushed and risk losing confidence and burn a year of his contract in a shortened season.

Cole Desharnais Pacioretty

Galchenyuk Plekanec Gionta - 9 games then back to Sarnia for Gally

Armstrong Eller Bourque

Moen White Prust

Once Gallys gone move Bourque up and put Leblanc on line three.

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I think you mean the OHL, Ted :)

Yes! Getting ahead of myself, I see.

Those calling for Galchenyuk to play this season need to realize hes a full year behind in development already. He doesn't need to be rushed and risk losing confidence and burn a year of his contract in a shortened season.

Cole Desharnais Pacioretty

Galchenyuk Plekanec Gionta - 9 games then back to Sarnia for Gally

Armstrong Eller Bourque

Moen White Prust

Once Gallys gone move Bourque up and put Leblanc on line three.

You never want to rush guys if they're not ready, but it's always a risk-benefit analysis and the rule never holds for all players exactly the same. In Galchenyuk's case, I'm not sure he's going to learn a lot by staying in the OHL. I agree that there's no point in having him sit on the bench or in the pressbox in the NHL, but the fact is that we have space on the top two lines, and I think he can develop faster by getting to play at the NHL speed with better teammates. He's a smart guy and a hard worker, and I think he has not only the skill but the maturity to make the jump. The major question was whether his knee issues had left him trying to catch up to game speed, but he's put that question to rest. I'd give him the 9 games, but that's already almost 20% of the season. If he does well in a top 6 role in those 9 games, I don't see why we should just send him back down. The Habs have not had success bringing young guys up, but many teams have and as I said, the key is that we have space to use him in the role he should be used in. PK got the chance to make the jump quickly and he flourished because he got to play a role he was used to. If we keep Galchenyuk on the top two lines, he has the chance to do the same.

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My take

Galchenyuk - Plekanec - Cole

Pacioretty - DD - Gionta

Bourque - Eller - Moen

Prust - White - Armstrong

Gomez

Subban - Gorges

Emelin - Markov

Kaberle - Diaz

Bouillon

Price

Budaj

Edit: Players like Gallagher, Bournival, Leblanc, Tinordi, Beaulieu should be given the go if any injuries occur.. but I don't think they will make the team out of camp.

Edited by ChrisGoalie39
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You never want to rush guys if they're not ready, but it's always a risk-benefit analysis and the rule never holds for all players exactly the same. In Galchenyuk's case, I'm not sure he's going to learn a lot by staying in the OHL. I agree that there's no point in having him sit on the bench or in the pressbox in the NHL, but the fact is that we have space on the top two lines, and I think he can develop faster by getting to play at the NHL speed with better teammates. He's a smart guy and a hard worker, and I think he has not only the skill but the maturity to make the jump. The major question was whether his knee issues had left him trying to catch up to game speed, but he's put that question to rest. I'd give him the 9 games, but that's already almost 20% of the season. If he does well in a top 6 role in those 9 games, I don't see why we should just send him back down. The Habs have not had success bringing young guys up, but many teams have and as I said, the key is that we have space to use him in the role he should be used in. PK got the chance to make the jump quickly and he flourished because he got to play a role he was used to. If we keep Galchenyuk on the top two lines, he has the chance to do the same.

I agree Ted,,,,he missed a whole year and is at the top of OHL scoring. That, to me, means he never lost a step. He can't learn to be better by playing against his peers. He can only get better by playing against better opponents, but (a caveat here) only if he is used in the right way (looking at you, MT). His "highlites" don't tell the whole story. I've watched some of his games and watched him without the puck, and IMO, he is more than ready to move up.

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Pac-DD-Cole

Bourque-Pleks-Gionta

Gomez-Eller-Armstrong

Prust-White-Moen

Noke

Subban-Gorges

Markov-Kaberle

Diaz-Emelin

Weber

Bouillion

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As I stated before, plekanec knows where he stands on this team. 1st PP, 1st Pk, team most valuable forward. Whats wrong with a Eller-Pleks-LeBlanc line. Pleks will contribute no matter what. Gomez wont and hes part of this team no matter what, so they have to use him properly, not playing fourth line center or wing.

Gomez was used as 3rd and 4th line, and that is using him properly. Leblenc? He won't even see the NHL this year.

Edited by dreegking
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Pac-DD-Cole

Bourque-Pleks-Gionta

Gomez-Eller-Armstrong

Prust-White-Moen

Noke

Subban-Gorges

Markov-Kaberle

Diaz-Emelin

Weber

Bouillion

Generally agree with forwards

PAC-DD-Cole

Bourque ( at least at start of season) - Pleks - Gionta

Gomez (until he gets sent down for Gallagher) - Eller - Moen

Prust - White - Armstrong ( I could see Moen here and Armstrong beside Eller - that will take 20 games to sort out )

Sub ban - Gorges

Markov - Emelin

Diaz - bouillon

Weber and Kaberle getting some action some games based on forward injuries. One will draw in a seventh dimensions. Weber probably rides pine more often.

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Pac-DD-Cole

Galchenyuk-Pleks-Gionta

Gallagher-Eller-Bourque (armstrong or moen could fill in for bourque or gallagher if they need a little motivation)

Prust-White-Moen (armstrong to fill in for ither of the wingers)

Subban-Goerges

Markov-Emelin

Diaz-Bouillon-kaberle

i feel we could run all 4 lines. and well gomez can ride the box and play the odd game or fill in for gallagher in the A. UNLESS (VERY UNLICKELY) gomez shows up with some fire in his heart to prove every one wrong and if so u dump him to any team willing to give up a puck or two for him

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Gomez was used as 3rd and 4th line, and that is using him properly. Leblenc? He won't even see the NHL this year.

this goes way back bud, pre lockout. I was saying use gomez with talented players, gionta and power forward, it has worked, they are stuck with him till the summer, so make it work. Leblanc is a promising young player. We had a horrible coach, let Therian work with these guys. You'll see.

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Just a bit of fun. I actually dont Expect Gally to make the squad this year, but lets assume he does & plays very well:

Paccioretty-Plekanec-Cole

Eller-Galchenyuk-Gionta

Moen-Gomez-Bourque

Prust-White-Armstrong

Subban-Gorges

Markov-Emelin

Diaz-Kaberle

Boullion

- We would try to move Desharnais (As much as I like the kid, I just see the writing on the wall with our depth at centre).

- Gomez gets a chance to show he's a valuable defensive centre (hopefully chipping in a few points) so that possibly we can move him in the summer, rather than buying him out.

- Play Gally with Eller - two big strong, young guys. Whoever plays better at centre gets the pivot position

- Plekanec is still our best option at centre and this year he may not have to do everything, so give him the assignments you hand picked for DD last year

40 - 50 games of this & we see where were at next year, if we need to buy people out (and who) and what holes we have in the roster.

Im sure it wont be like this at all, but its something Id personally consider, were I coach ;)

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Alright, let's take a first crack. I'm going to assume Galchenyuk does not make the team (maybe I'll do one later where he does).

Bourque-DD-Cole

Patches-Pleks-Gionta

Eller-Gomez-Moen

Armstrong-White-Prust

Georges - Subban

Markov - Emelin

Kaberle - Diaz

Top 6

I'd like to put Bourque in a position to succeed early on and see what he can do. I also feel like he'd fit really well with DD. It also gives us a chance to see what DD can do without Patches.

Patches isn't exactly a Selke candidate but his big body should help Pleks and Gionta and frankly I'd like to see some guys like Eller be able to shoulder more of the defensive load.

Bottom 6

I'd probably juggle Gomez and Eller a bit to decide on who plays center. More because I'm curious to see if Eller can be effective on LW like he plays for Worlds. Ultimately whatever is best for Eller is what should make the decision though. Eller is the first to move up when there's an injury in the top 6.

Defense

Not much to say, except I'd keep the bottom guys a short leash and not hesitate to throw in Bouillon or call up someone like St. Denis.

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I don't think we want to mess with the one line that actually scored last year. Here's how I'd roll the lines, assuming Galchenyuk goes back to junior.

Pacioretty-Desharnais-Cole: Same role as last year, same o-zone minutes.

Eller-Plekanec-Gionta: I don't think Eller has a future here as a centre. I don't see the vision and the ability to distribute. With his size and jam, he's a good candidate to become a good two-way LW.

Bourque-Gomez-Moen: Call it the Maximize Dubious Assets line. Checking capacity, with some ability to score.

Prust-Leblanc-Armstrong: Prust can rotate with Moen on the third line as needed.

Defense:

Given the horrendous state of our blueline, I think we should try to ice two "top" pairings, a 1A and 1B quarter with relatively distributed minutes. The reason I'm doing this is because Subban is the only guy we have capable of doing legit no. 1 pairing work (i.e. 25+ minutes a night) without wearing down over the season. Gorges can't do it consistently. Markov isn't the player he was pre-injury. Emelin isn't a top-two guy. So:

1A: Subban-Gorges

1B: Markov-Emelin

Third pairing: Kaberle-Bouillon

Spare: Diaz

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I like your lines weep except doesn't look like they have any interest in playing Leblanc at center, whether that's a mistake or not is debatable. The fact that's got 5 points in Hamilton is kind of concerning.

Wonder if Dumont gets a chance, has the game of a typical 4th liner and is producing.

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2013 lines

Pacs-Desharnais-Cole (Dont mess with a sure thing)

Gionta- Gomez- Bourque ( Gomez and Gionta always perform well with a power forward)

Eller- Pleks- Leblanc ( Eller aint that good of a center, pleks can play with anybody)

Prust-White-Moen( awesome 4th line)

Subban Georges( ready to be moulded into top two material)

Markov- Emelin( A healthy Markov can show him the way, and emelin is a hitting Machine)

Kaberle-Boullion( Good veteran 3rd pairing with a little offensive upside)

PP 1 PP2

Cole-Des-Pacs Gionta-Gomez-Bourque

Subban PLeks Markov Kaberle

PK 1 PK2

Pleks Moen Prust Eller/White

Subban Georges Boullion Markov

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