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2012-13 Habs Lines


BigTed3
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Firstly, bourque will miss the start of the year.

Secondly, Pleks and Gionta had a good stretch together with Moen last year.

Thirdly, Gomez is an NHL player let alone top 6, he's only in there until Bourque gets back and Eller resumes 3rd line center duties,someone else claims it or miraculously he earns it.

On defence, bigted brings some interesting pairings that I don't disagree with as an eventuality but I dont see us coming out of camp with that.

Firstly I know, abdominal surgery, may miss first 8-10 games of season,

Secondly, I and many others will totally disagree, they may have had a good couple stretches together because they are both very skilled players but they dont not play the same game, they dont click well.

Thirdly, Although i had to read your statement a couple times to get what point you were trying to get across, he is simply doomed because his contract, he will never live up to it, but that being said, he was always 2nd line center caliber his whole career, even his first year here he played pretty good, had a rough 2nd year and last year played half a season and 3/4 of that was on the wing or centering the fourth line. If hes play with skilled players he will produce, Gionta and Bourque, you heard it here first. MMW

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Gomez can be a top 6 center if and only he is paired with top 6 wingers,he and his contract are here to stay, its to rich to trade and montreal has to much class to bury him in the minors. Pleks(who could be a 1st line center on any team) can play with anyone and contribute, and is so valuable to the power play and PK that maybe third line center mins(10-12 mins at 5 on 5) is just what he needs. See end quote of my last post, except for maybe Price, he is our MVP.

And Eller, sorry i just plain forgot about, i like every single player on the team, but I have not yet put Eller on this pedistal that everyone else seems to have already done, he worked well with Kostitsyn/Moen off and on but has not played very well with any one else, but if given the chance he will become a pretty good 2/3rd line center.

Gomez used to be a top 6 center but he is no longer. If we are to put Pleks on the third line then Eller gets that 2nd line center position because he deserves more responsability.

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I don't see how Plekanec and Gionta don't mesh well... They're both speedy two-way players, Gionta is more of a goal scorer, and Plekanec is a puck distributor. To me, they mesh very well.

They dont play that well together, last season Martin(and maybe Cunneyworth aswell) kept putting pleks gionta and cammalleri together and they were brutal, just about shift. Gionta and gomez play well together, gomez the set up man and gionta the shooter, they play the give and go well too. If they have a big strong winger for support they do well.

For those who doubt, do a little research, see their stats when Pouliot joined they're line in 2010, gomez got nearly a point a game, then in 2010-11 it was a rough year until Pacioretty joined them, they were a pretty good line until Pacs was almost killed by Chara. Last year Gomez played 38 games, most centeringthe fourth line or playing wing on the 3rd line.

I hate his contract just as much as the next person, but hes here to stay, they have to utilize him.

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They dont play that well together, last season Martin(and maybe Cunneyworth aswell) kept putting pleks gionta and cammalleri together and they were brutal, just about shift. Gionta and gomez play well together, gomez the set up man and gionta the shooter, they play the give and go well too. If they have a big strong winger for support they do well.

For those who doubt, do a little research, see their stats when Pouliot joined they're line in 2010, gomez got nearly a point a game, then in 2010-11 it was a rough year until Pacioretty joined them, they were a pretty good line until Pacs was almost killed by Chara. Last year Gomez played 38 games, most centeringthe fourth line or playing wing on the 3rd line.

I hate his contract just as much as the next person, but hes here to stay, they have to utilize him.

Even if Gionta and Plekanec don't "mesh" well (which I still don't believe is true), you've gotta believe that Plekanec and Gionta are going to be better than Gomez and Gionta at this point. The point totals could be pretty good, but Plekanec and Gionta together could handle tough minutes against some seriously tough opposition, leaving the weaker matchups for DD-Pacioretty-COle to light it up. I agree on Cammalleri-Plekanec-Gionta being a bad line, but that should really go without saying. I'm not saying there's not a place on the team for Gomez, but we can't put him in the top 6. I think it should be pretty obvious at this point that Plekanec and DD (and even Eller for that matter) are better players in the top 6.

I also don't think it's fair to use a line of Pacioretty-Gomez-Gionta for breaking up Plekanec and Gionta. Pacioretty is a hell of a player, and had really great possession numbers before the Chara incident. You could have had Jeff Halpern centering that line and they'd have looked good.

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Even if Gionta and Plekanec don't "mesh" well (which I still don't believe is true), you've gotta believe that Plekanec and Gionta are going to be better than Gomez and Gionta at this point. The point totals could be pretty good, but Plekanec and Gionta together could handle tough minutes against some seriously tough opposition, leaving the weaker matchups for DD-Pacioretty-COle to light it up. I agree on Cammalleri-Plekanec-Gionta being a bad line, but that should really go without saying. I'm not saying there's not a place on the team for Gomez, but we can't put him in the top 6. I think it should be pretty obvious at this point that Plekanec and DD (and even Eller for that matter) are better players in the top 6.

I also don't think it's fair to use a line of Pacioretty-Gomez-Gionta for breaking up Plekanec and Gionta. Pacioretty is a hell of a player, and had really great possession numbers before the Chara incident. You could have had Jeff Halpern centering that line and they'd have looked good.

Again, not saying anything negative about Pleks, my fav hab,teams best forward and team MVP. But so important to PP and PK that less mins.(10-12 mins) and less of a pounding when playing Bos, Philly, etc etc might do him some good. Maybe even a Eller-Pleks-White/Armstrong line. Pleks can contribute playing with anyone, plus PP,PK. Gomez needs skill. We cant write him off and have him center the fourth line, waste of 7.5 mill. Give him 20 games, he needs to gain his confidence back. see what happens, is all im saying. His teammates defend him like a brother and alot of the younger guys really look up to him, that says alot.

All of this of course depending on he has a strong training camp and gains the coaches trust, cause from what i read Therien isn't to high on him.

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Again, not saying anything negative about Pleks, my fav hab,teams best forward and team MVP. But so important to PP and PK that less mins.(10-12 mins) and less of a pounding when playing Bos, Philly, etc etc might do him some good. Maybe even a Eller-Pleks-White/Armstrong line. Pleks can contribute playing with anyone, plus PP,PK. Gomez needs skill. We cant write him off and have him center the fourth line, waste of 7.5 mill. Give him 20 games, he needs to gain his confidence back. see what happens, is all im saying. His teammates defend him like a brother and alot of the younger guys really look up to him, that says alot.

All of this of course depending on he has a strong training camp and gains the coaches trust, cause from what i read Therien isn't to high on him.

Some good points twenty2. I agree, be saying for a while we need to cut down his minutes and get someone to help with the slack. His production always slows down in the 2nd half of the season and I'm convinced it's due to exhaustion.

As for Gomez, no matter where we put him, it's a waste of 7.5 mil. He's played top line minutes since he got here and hasn't come close to a 6 mil player. So, I have no issues burying him in Hamilton or have him playing the lower lines. Give his spot to someone who`ll contribute and let Gomez work his way back up.

I have no objections having him play some minutes on the PP. But not at the expense of DD or pleks.

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Some good points twenty2. I agree, be saying for a while we need to cut down his minutes and get someone to help with the slack. His production always slows down in the 2nd half of the season and I'm convinced it's due to exhaustion.

As for Gomez, no matter where we put him, it's a waste of 7.5 mil. He's played top line minutes since he got here ancd hasn't come close to a 6 mil player. So, I have no issues burying him in Hamilton or have him playing the lower lines. Give his spot to someone who`ll contribute and let Gomez work his way back up.

I have no objections having him play some minutes on the PP. But not at the expense of DD or pleks.

Montreal wont bury him in the minors, they're not the rangers, montreal is too classy of an organization. He could end up in the minors because of a poor showing in training camp though.

He is doomed by his contract, we all dislike it and wish it wasnt there, if he plays fourth line you get nothing outta him. Give him a chance( 20 games) im writing off last season, not just for gomez but the whole team.

Fresh start. New management, new coach, healthy markov.

Wow, i never thought there was this much hate for gomez , people defended camalleri with his play off performance, gomez is pretty clutch come playoff time too.

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Montreal wont bury him in the minors, they're not the rangers, montreal is too classy of an organization. He could end up in the minors because of a poor showing in training camp though.

He is doomed by his contract, we all dislike it and wish it wasnt there, if he plays fourth line you get nothing outta him. Give him a chance( 20 games) im writing off last season, not just for gomez but the whole team.

Fresh start. New management, new coach, healthy markov.

Wow, i never thought there was this much hate for gomez , people defended camalleri with his play off performance, gomez is pretty clutch come playoff time too.

GP 118 G 9 A 40 Pts 49 -24.

That's the last 2 seasons in the top 6. There's no hatred towards Gomez just a realistic understanding that his best days are behind him and he's not a "clutch" player any longer. Putting him in a key position limits today and tomorrow, it's pointless-pardon the pun.

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GP 118 G 9 A 40 Pts 49 -24.

That's the last 2 seasons in the top 6. There's no hatred towards Gomez just a realistic understanding that his best days are behind him and he's not a "clutch" player any longer. Putting him in a key position limits today and tomorrow, it's pointless-pardon the pun.

PLayoffs GP 26 G 2 A 16 Pts 18

Like i say, last year is write off,for him and the team, he played 38 games,we seen what centering the 4th line gets ya. Hes a 30yr old. Its too early to say his best days are behind him.

20 game chance is all im saying.

Again, im considering last year a write off for everybody. As far as im concerned, last year didnt happen, the team is not near as bad as they finished

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To be honest, I don't think the Gomez situation is as simple as saying he's past his prime. As twenty2 said, he's still only 30 and it's not like he suffered a game-changing injury before his decline the past couple of seasons. So what's different?

1. He changed teams. One could argue that his point production should actually have gone up after leaving NJ if this was the only factor, given how defensive a system the Devils played when he was there. Nevertheless, it's not unheard of that some guys do well in certain environments and less well in others.

2. He changed linemates. I think this actually played a big role, going from playing with guys like Gio and Elias on a nightly basis to being tossed around on different lines. What line combo best reproduced what he had with Elias and Gio? Probably Gio and Pacman, and that line actually had pretty good success two seasons ago until Pacioretty was hurt. But it showed that given the right linemates, Gomez was still capable of producing.

3. Attitude. It's so hard to judge, especially since none of us really followed Scotty as a Devil. But I think it has to be discussed, given the drop-off in production we saw after he signed the big contract. Is it possible that his motivation to succeed took a hit? I'd like to think it didn't, but it's human nature to try harder the bigger the reward. If Scotty was no longer playing for his next deal, it's entirely possible his will to make the little sacrifices in life and on the ice took a hit too. Hopefully the threat of losing an NHL job is enough to make that a non-issue this season.

I was utterly disappointed with what Gomez brought most of the season two years ago. Last year, I thought his style of play was a big step up, but his season was hurt by injuries (to himself and others) and by playing with poor-quality players most of the time. I truly believe that if we had given him DD's spot last season, we would have seen similar output from Scotty as we did from DD. Going forward, you hate to give ice time to a guy who has no future here though, especially at the expense of young guys like Eller and DD. On the other hand, next season will be a write-off in all likelihood and spotlighting Gomez could make him tradeable going into the last season of his contract. Assuming the lockout doesn't last too long, there are enough games and enough chance of injuries that we should have the chance to put Gomez back into the top 6 at some point. I wouldn't start him as the #2 center at the beginning of the season, but I'm also curious to see what he can do with 25-30 games in that role because I think he still has what it takes to succeed. We talk about lines like they're going to be set in stone once for the entire season, but as I said, it's not so straight-forward and line combinations are always evolving. Hopefully Gomez makes the best of whatever opportunity presents itself because I really feel like he's gotten the short end of the stick from a lot of critics.

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We do not exactly have a wealth of options in the top 9. Gomez deserves some proper linemates. I really liked his effort last season when he wasn't injured.

In 10/11, his play was mostly sub-par, but when he had Gionta and Pacioretty on his wings he had 19 points in 21 games.

Having Gomez gives us a lot more options. I hate his contract as much as anyone but he is still valuable to the team. He's our best puck carrier by far and our record WITH him is better than it is without him.

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I think he'll at least get a shot. Let's take a big leap of faith and assume the season starts on time. Bourque will be injured, and the logical conclusion is that Eller moves up to the 2nd line wing. That leaves the #3 center spot open, and I think we can all agree that Gomez is a better option there than anyone else at this point. He'll probably get some time on the 3rd line there, and he'll determine his fate from there. His linemates will probably be Leblanc, Armstrong, Prust, or Moen (any two of the 4), so in a 3rd line role his linemates will be OK. I'd like to see a 3rd line of Moen-Gomez-Leblanc. I think that's a pretty good third line. Ideally I would have liked us to sign Kostitsyn again instead of Prust or Armstrong, but who would ever want a 40 point skill guy who hits like a ton of bricks and is happy in Montreal and has been a good contributor in the past? I'd rather just have the grit :sly:

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Gomez at 3rd line center so that Eller can slide into 2nd line LW is something I have been pushing since June. I have no qualms with that. I do, however, take huge issue with placing faith in Gomez as a top 6 player.

Also, he Is turning 33 this year and would be starting his 14th pro season in a row as an undersized player so predicting that his decline is permanent is not only logical but the most plausible explanation. Losing half a stride when your game has been based on speed your whole life makes the difference between one year goal droughts and 7.5 million dollar a year contracts. Gomez can still skate better than average BUT can he still skate like HE used to?

It's a very thin line between success and failure in pro sports and I'm sorry but the "I liked his effort" section is just trying too hard to give a nice guy a break.

At no point in time should Scott Gomez be placed ahead of Plekanec, DD or Eller on the offensive depth chart, he quite simply isn't capable of producing at their level any longer. Even if for arguments sake Gomer gets you 40pts at the expense of quality ice time/linemates for Eller you are severely limiting long term success for the team.

Gomez as a veteran depth player with a shot to earn his ice time is fine by me but pencilling him in to an offensive position due to his reputation would be a grotesque miscalculation.

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I think Gomez could be good in a 3rd line/light PP minutes role. THe only problem is I like Eller here long term as a center better than on the wing, I think he could really lock down the 3rd line center role and give us 20-20 seasons with great two way play there. Or, he could advance and become a true top 6 center. However, for next season I think the best option (assuming we start the season before Bourque is back, which is a big leap of faith), is to put Eller on the 2nd line. We need to see if he can produce in a top 6 role, and if he can provide some physical play and a shot to that line (with Plekanec and Gionta) it would be a great line. It might not put up too many points, but I could see every one of those guys putting up 50 points on that role against tough matchups (which is important, because it gives Desharnais' line easier matchups and they could have another 60pt season.)

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We do not exactly have a wealth of options in the top 9. Gomez deserves some proper linemates. I really liked his effort last season when he wasn't injured.

In 10/11, his play was mostly sub-par, but when he had Gionta and Pacioretty on his wings he had 19 points in 21 games.

Having Gomez gives us a lot more options. I hate his contract as much as anyone but he is still valuable to the team. He's our best puck carrier by far and our record WITH him is better than it is without him.

Thats the only point im trying to get across here, with the right line mates, which seems to be Gionta and a big strong winger, he has the ability to produce, hes wasted with Moen and Blunden on his line. They have to give him another chance, but it has to be a legitimate chance with proper wingers and proper responsibility(2nd or 3rd line duties, some pp mins, especially 5 on 3). When you talk about his puck carrying abilities it reminds me of his first year here when the habs would constantly use the set play where the defense would drop the puck to a streaking Gomez in the defensive zone and let him utilize his speed and puck carrying to gain the offensive zone. He got 60 pts his first year here, but orchestrated many plays which led to goals without receiving a point/assist. Its all about confidence, and getting it back. 20 games to get it back, if he doesn't come thru then reduce his role, sit him in the press box, do what ever cause we have to much of a future with our young guys for them to be losing out to burnt out veterans.

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Gomez at 3rd line center so that Eller can slide into 2nd line LW is something I have been pushing since June. I have no qualms with that. I do, however, take huge issue with placing faith in Gomez as a top 6 player.

Also, he Is turning 33 this year and would be starting his 14th pro season in a row as an undersized player so predicting that his decline is permanent is not only logical but the most plausible explanation. Losing half a stride when your game has been based on speed your whole life makes the difference between one year goal droughts and 7.5 million dollar a year contracts. Gomez can still skate better than average BUT can he still skate like HE used to?

It's a very thin line between success and failure in pro sports and I'm sorry but the "I liked his effort" section is just trying too hard to give a nice guy a break.

At no point in time should Scott Gomez be placed ahead of Plekanec, DD or Eller on the offensive depth chart, he quite simply isn't capable of producing at their level any longer. Even if for arguments sake Gomer gets you 40pts at the expense of quality ice time/linemates for Eller you are severely limiting long term success for the team.

Gomez as a veteran depth player with a shot to earn his ice time is fine by me but pencilling him in to an offensive position due to his reputation would be a grotesque miscalculation.

If using big words helps you feel better about your argument then all the power to ya. Im just simply saying, Give 20 games to a guy in his early 30's, who until very recently,was a offensive threat in this league. If used properly he MAY be able to regain the qualities he once brought to the game. DD-Pacs-Cole are the 1 st line, there is no debating that, now call it lines 2a) and 2b) or 2nd line and 3 rd line, in todays game there is not to much of a diff. between the two, just pencil gomez and gionta in there with a decently skilled line mate, i say bourque or eller, and see what happens. If after 20 games hes just isnt panning out(10-15 pts) then bench him, make him fouth line winger, i dont care, then its time to give a chance to the future players of this team.

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If using big words helps you feel better about your argument then all the power to ya. Im just simply saying, Give 20 games to a guy in his early 30's, who until very recently,was a offensive threat in this league. If used properly he MAY be able to regain the qualities he once brought to the game. DD-Pacs-Cole are the 1 st line, there is no debating that, now call it lines 2a) and 2b) or 2nd line and 3 rd line, in todays game there is not to much of a diff. between the two, just pencil gomez and gionta in there with a decently skilled line mate, i say bourque or eller, and see what happens. If after 20 games hes just isnt panning out(10-15 pts) then bench him, make him fouth line winger, i dont care, then its time to give a chance to the future players of this team.

I will agree with you to a certant point, however, I would give Gomez 15 games to prove himself, and that is all I would give him.

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If using big words helps you feel better about your argument then all the power to ya. Im just simply saying, Give 20 games to a guy in his early 30's, who until very recently,was a offensive threat in this league. If used properly he MAY be able to regain the qualities he once brought to the game. DD-Pacs-Cole are the 1 st line, there is no debating that, now call it lines 2a) and 2b) or 2nd line and 3 rd line, in todays game there is not to much of a diff. between the two, just pencil gomez and gionta in there with a decently skilled line mate, i say bourque or eller, and see what happens. If after 20 games hes just isnt panning out(10-15 pts) then bench him, make him fouth line winger, i dont care, then its time to give a chance to the future players of this team.

If placing the Gomez relaunch project ahead of Plekanec is your thing then we have no chance of agreeing. Gionta and Bourque with Gomez is your example, then who plays with our best player? It simply makes no sense, I won't use any big words this time. Gomez is not good he's average at best so taking time away from good players to help average players is not a good plan.

Simple enough for ya? ;)

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If placing the Gomez relaunch project ahead of Plekanec is your thing then we have no chance of agreeing. Gionta and Bourque with Gomez is your example, then who plays with our best player? It simply makes no sense, I won't use any big words this time. Gomez is not good he's average at best so taking time away from good players to help average players is not a good plan.

Simple enough for ya? ;)

As I stated before, plekanec knows where he stands on this team. 1st PP, 1st Pk, team most valuable forward. Whats wrong with a Eller-Pleks-LeBlanc line. Pleks will contribute no matter what. Gomez wont and hes part of this team no matter what, so they have to use him properly, not playing fourth line center or wing.

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We may see the game differently.

I see:

Top offensive line: PAC DD Cole ~ 20 minutes

Matchup: others teams checking line/Bergeron/Kesler types

Best overall line: Eller Pleks Gionta ~20 minutes

Matchup: Other teams best line Giroux/Crosby/etc

Shift disturber line/checking: Prust White Moen ~ 10 mins

Matchup: 4th line/secondary scorers

Secondary/bonus scoring: Armstrong Gomez Leblanc ~ 10 mins.

Matchup: 4th line/3rd lines.

They way I see it anything Gomez produces on his line is supplemental and valuable because it might be those points that break a tie game or tie one when he's on the ice vs depth players but he has less chance to hurt you with offensive turnovers against Asham instead of Malkin.

IMO, if you lineup let's say Eller Pleks Leblanc you have a domino effect of problems.

DD can't lineup against the Giroux/Crosby types just yet.

Gionta, a proven commodity, gets relegated to less minutes due to Gomez needing protection as well.

You're sending Pleks out there with 2 developing players to take on the leagues best while asking him to shutdown and produce at the same time.

It simply doesn't add up to success.

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We may see the game differently.

I see:

Top offensive line: PAC DD Cole ~ 20 minutes

Matchup: others teams checking line/Bergeron/Kesler types

Best overall line: Eller Pleks Gionta ~20 minutes

Matchup: Other teams best line Giroux/Crosby/etc

Shift disturber line/checking: Prust White Moen ~ 10 mins

Matchup: 4th line/secondary scorers

Secondary/bonus scoring: Armstrong Gomez Leblanc ~ 10 mins.

Matchup: 4th line/3rd lines.

They way I see it anything Gomez produces on his line is supplemental and valuable because it might be those points that break a tie game or tie one when he's on the ice vs depth players but he has less chance to hurt you with offensive turnovers against Asham instead of Malkin.

IMO, if you lineup let's say Eller Pleks Leblanc you have a domino effect of problems.

DD can't lineup against the Giroux/Crosby types just yet.

Gionta, a proven commodity, gets relegated to less minutes due to Gomez needing protection as well.

You're sending Pleks out there with 2 developing players to take on the leagues best while asking him to shutdown and produce at the same time.

It simply doesn't add up to success.

2 things. 1. Gionta is no shut down guy, hes 5'6" or 7". He can kill penalties because he is one of a few right hand shots on the team and speed can kill penalties, but he does NOT go up against crosby and Giroux at any point of a game.

2. The young players will flourish under Therian's coaching, LeBlanc is being moulded into a shut down guy, plus he 6 ft tall and prob. close to 200 lbs. I was thinking of a shut down line actually when I mentioned Eller-Pleks-LeBlanc line, LeBlanc would be a nice fit with the two I think.

Peoples hatred for gomez is blocking their hockey vision

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