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Round 1: Canadiens vs. Senators


BigTed3
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Sens in 7.

Sens are bigger, stronger, more physical than the Canadiens.

Sens made the playoffs with 13 rookies scoring their first goals, without their top goal scorer of last season in Michalek, their top point scorer of last season in Spezza, their 2 top D from last year in Cowen and Karlsson, and even Andy got injured.

The reason why people believe that the Sens will beat Montreal is because they are all back with exception to Spezza who is due back within 2 weeks.

Thus, if we can make the playoffs with a lesser team of rookies, veterans and AHLers. Then add Conacher, Karlsson, Cowen Michalek, Andy and Spezza at the trade deadline...You have to believe that we are the favorite as we have added 5 top notch players and will have Spezza back soon...

The Sens will be more physical than you think and are deeper than the Canadiens. Look what happens when you lose Markov....like last season for example.

Either way this series will be epic. GO SENS GO!

:D And thanks for making pointless comparisons to last season, which was ... last season. Our roster is different, our coaching staff completely changed.

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Just curious if anyone knows. Exactly what is a "maintenance day", I can see a therapy day,,,massages,,whirlpool, etc. but maintenance (?),,,, fixing skates,,,,taping sticks, WTH?

From JessRusnak tweet:

"Looks like an optional morning skate, Missing Prust, Plekanec, Ryder, Gionta, Bouillon"

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Rather than quoting that long post, I'm just going to address your points 1 at a time. Please stick around, because we all love a good debate here :);)

Point #1 - Sens are biggger, stronger and more physical than the Canadiens

This is true, although the difference may be less than you think. We showed Saturday against the Leafs that we can play our game and still add more physicality if we need to, and Jared Tinordi is a big help. With the exception of Markov and Diaz, all of our defenseman can actually play pretty physical games. A lot of our forwards may be small, but the fact that guys like Gallagher end up on their rear end doesn't mean they don't play physical, it actually means the opposite.

Point #2 - Sens are deeper than the Canadiens

As far as I can tell, this is just an objectively wrong statement, no offense. We have 3 scoring lines that can all do damage, and a lot of options for our fourth line, who are all pretty good to excellent checkers. You guys won games on scoring very few goals and relying on your defense and goaltending, but if our top line of Gionta-Plekanec-Ryder(or Bourque) can shut down your top line (a safe bet, given Plekanec's ability to shut down Crosby and Ovechkin a couple years ago IMO), then where will you score from? We still have two competent scoring lines to score with, while your second line looks more like a checking than a scoring line to me.

Point #3 - Look what happens when we lose Markov

I don't know if this was a point you were trying to make or not, but you said it a lot and quite frankly I just don't get it. Looking what happens when we lose Markov would be terrible....if we actually lost Markov. You might have to explain this more to me, because I just don't get it.

You typed a lot, but those were the only points I got out of it. Hopefully I didn't miss any.

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he Sens will be more physical than you think and are deeper than the Canadiens. Look what happens when you lose Markov....like last season for example. Or Emilen this season. Then compare it to this season where we lose our top D pairing, top scorer, top point scorer, top goalie....and still make the playoffs because of our depth. Now put those 5 players back in the line up and push our players down a line....like when Spezza comes back and Turris goes back to the 2nd line...or now Phillips becomes a 3rd liner with Karlsson back, and Gryba becomes a third liner with Cowen back and with Michalek back Silfverburg goes to the second line. Lehtner becomes the back up once again with Andy back...Either way....The Canadiens havent played the Sens with their better players back and won this season....

Will be a very tough series, for sure, no matter who wins it. We're obviously partial to the Habs on this board, but the Senators are a very good team, no doubt.

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Here we go... the puck drops tonight and I remain cautiously optimistic the Habs should prevail when all is said and done in this series.

That said, there are keys to this series that should make a difference... I believe that will be goaltending (Price/Budaj vs. Anderson/Lehner); special teams; strengths vs. weaknesses and coaching.

At this point it seems the Habs may have the upper hand in terms of distribution of team scoring ability. IMO, defensively it is quite even. In terms of size the Sens appear to have an edge. The Habs have the greater amount of experience. The Senators the greater amount of youth. Other than that, speed and execution for both teams five on five could be important while in terms of a balanced line-up, IMO, the Habs may have the upper hand.

It should be the Senators defensive strength as a team overall vs. the Habs potential scoring across 3 lines overall. (there are many who believe that defense wins championships); the Habs powerplay vs. the Senators penalty kill and vice versa (there are many who believe that special teams could make all the difference).

Intangibles... the Habs 4th line vs. the Sens 4th line effect on the games; health, conditioning, determination and focus on playing respective gameplans. Coaching decisions in game and between games; replacement players as needed.

GO HABS GO!

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:D And thanks for making pointless comparisons to last season, which was ... last season. Our roster is different, our coaching staff completely changed.

Exactly.

No offense to Ottawa fans in general, but I find their REALLY starting to over rate Karlsson. Not directed at any particular sens fan, but just reading posts on their boards and the hfboards they seem to think Karlsson is the Hockey God of Defense.

That being said, Karlsson is still an elite defenseman, just not the greatest one to come into the league since Bobby Orr. Im still aware he will be a huge factor against us, and i feel gaining cowen has gone a bit under the radar (what Id give to have that guy on our back end). Should be a good series, even if one team wins without going to 7 games, I have a feeling the scores will be close.

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He's an elite d-man, no question, but so is Subban, so really, consider that a draw for both teams. To me, the keys are special teams and goaltending. If we take care of business in both those areas -- i.e. if ST is solid and Carey makes the stops he should make -- there's no reason for us not to win this series. We are a higher-scoring team with more scoring depth across our top-nine. The Senators struggle to score goals. Over a seven-game series, we should get our cookies.

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Rather than quoting that long post, I'm just going to address your points 1 at a time. Please stick around, because we all love a good debate here :);)

Point #1 - Sens are biggger, stronger and more physical than the Canadiens

This is true, although the difference may be less than you think. We showed Saturday against the Leafs that we can play our game and still add more physicality if we need to, and Jared Tinordi is a big help. With the exception of Markov and Diaz, all of our defenseman can actually play pretty physical games. A lot of our forwards may be small, but the fact that guys like Gallagher end up on their rear end doesn't mean they don't play physical, it actually means the opposite.

Point #2 - Sens are deeper than the Canadiens

As far as I can tell, this is just an objectively wrong statement, no offense. We have 3 scoring lines that can all do damage, and a lot of options for our fourth line, who are all pretty good to excellent checkers. You guys won games on scoring very few goals and relying on your defense and goaltending, but if our top line of Gionta-Plekanec-Ryder(or Bourque) can shut down your top line (a safe bet, given Plekanec's ability to shut down Crosby and Ovechkin a couple years ago IMO), then where will you score from? We still have two competent scoring lines to score with, while your second line looks more like a checking than a scoring line to me.

Point #3 - Look what happens when we lose Markov

I don't know if this was a point you were trying to make or not, but you said it a lot and quite frankly I just don't get it. Looking what happens when we lose Markov would be terrible....if we actually lost Markov. You might have to explain this more to me, because I just don't get it.

You typed a lot, but those were the only points I got out of it. Hopefully I didn't miss any.

When we lose Markov.

We beat the defending cup champion penguins when we lost markov, we took the cup champ bruins to OT in game 7 when we lost Markov.

Last seasons horrible record was not due to losing Markov. He came back for the last 15 games or so and we did not storm back. Our GM took a huge gamble and signed Markov praying he would be able to come back in time for beginning of (or at least all star break) of the season. So yes, we let go of Wisnewski and Hamrlik (and to a lesser extent a player like Mara). But we also only had one real scoring line, terrible trades going left right and centre, horrible management, a coach who was horribly stubborn, replaced by a man who the organization publically apologized for hiring, and implemented a 7 D system and played "key players" like Ryan White Mike Blunden and Matt Darche in the top 6 roles they clearly deserved.

But I guess losing Markov WAS the reason we sucked last year...

He's an elite d-man, no question, but so is Subban, so really, consider that a draw for both teams. To me, the keys are special teams and goaltending. If we take care of business in both those areas -- i.e. if ST is solid and Carey makes the stops he should make -- there's no reason for us not to win this series. We are a higher-scoring team with more scoring depth across our top-nine. The Senators struggle to score goals. Over a seven-game series, we should get our cookies.

Exactly. But Im doing my absolute best to keep my mouth shut because it seems every time I got a little over confident in this team they disappointed me :P

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He's an elite d-man, no question, but so is Subban, so really, consider that a draw for both teams. To me, the keys are special teams and goaltending. If we take care of business in both those areas -- i.e. if ST is solid and Carey makes the stops he should make -- there's no reason for us not to win this series. We are a higher-scoring team with more scoring depth across our top-nine. The Senators struggle to score goals. Over a seven-game series, we should get our cookies.

This series will show who is the best overall D. Will it be the previous Norris winner in Karlsson or the front runner for the Norris this season in Subban.

The Sens are not struggling as much as one would think now that Karlsson is back. Thats why Sens fans like I really see how this guy improves offense and defense. He is that good of a defenceman. Paul Coffey/Bobby Orr esque...The question is how will he do in this series?

Anyways, very excited for the game tonight! The Sens have a tough challenge up ahead of them against your Canadiens. May the best team win....GO SENS GO!

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This series will show who is the best overall D. Will it be the previous Norris winner in Karlsson or the front runner for the Norris this season in Subban.

The Sens are not struggling as much as one would think now that Karlsson is back. Thats why Sens fans like I really see how this guy improves offense and defense. He is that good of a defenceman. Paul Coffey/Bobby Orr esque...The question is how will he do in this series?

Anyways, very excited for the game tonight! The Sens have a tough challenge up ahead of them against your Canadiens. May the best team win....GO SENS GO!

Well, it's a series, not a one-on-one matchup. There's more to the game than just Subban vs. Karlsson. Also, and no offense, but one Norris Trophy win and you're putting Karlsson in with Orr and Coffey? A bit overblown IMO. Karlsson is a world-class player, he doesn't need that kind of hype.

Anyhow, may the best Habs team win! :P :P :P

I wonder if the Habs had lost Price, Subban and someone as valuable as Spezza, whether they would have been able to hang in and make the playoffs as the Senators did?

Fair question, although it's worth noting that we did actually do that a few years ago under Martin. Horrible injury-ravaged season without Markov and many, many key players, but Martin still took us to sixth in the conference, and we gave the eventual Cup winners (Boston) their toughest series of the playoffs.

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Well, it's a series, not a one-on-one matchup. There's more to the game than just Subban vs. Karlsson. Also, and no offense, but one Norris Trophy win and you're putting Karlsson in with Orr and Coffey? A bit overblown IMO. Karlsson is a world-class player, he doesn't need that kind of hype.

Anyhow, may the best Habs team win! :P :P :P

Fair question, although it's worth noting that we did actually do that a few years ago under Martin. Horrible injury-ravaged season without Markov and many, many key players, but Martin still took us to sixth in the conference, and we gave the eventual Cup winners (Boston) their toughest series of the playoffs.

Well that was then and this is now... but, very much worth noting about the Habs, what you say does show us all that teams are capable of facing difficulties and overcoming adveristy.

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This series will show who is the best overall D. Will it be the previous Norris winner in Karlsson or the front runner for the Norris this season in Subban.

The Sens are not struggling as much as one would think now that Karlsson is back. Thats why Sens fans like I really see how this guy improves offense and defense. He is that good of a defenceman. Paul Coffey/Bobby Orr esque...The question is how will he do in this series?

Anyways, very excited for the game tonight! The Sens have a tough challenge up ahead of them against your Canadiens. May the best team win....GO SENS GO!

I don't think it's a fair comparison. The team around each individual player can strongly influence their play/stats.

Off the bat, the sens have a better blueline(also healthier), I'll give you that one, no argument from me. So obviously karlsson will have an edge and may appear better than Subban, simply due to the fact he has better support. The only way to really judge in a game type scenario, is to have each player playing with the same linemates as the other and facing the same opponents.

As aforementioned sens have a better blueline, which could make decent dmen appear like good, solid dmen.

Sens may have the better blueline, but the habs have the stronger offense. habs scored 149 goals this season to the sens 116. And here is where the sens are better, habs GA is 126 to the sens 104.

This series will not be a grinded out series, it'll be a defensive battle.

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Also 'better blueline' needs qualification. I'd say the Sens have better blueline defense, certainly. But we were one of the top teams in the league in terms of scoring from our blueline, so we have the advantage there. And it's not just one guy. Subban and Markov are the big guns, but Diaz should start to heat up now that he's had a chance to shake off the concussion rust.

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I don't think it's a fair comparison. The team around each individual player can strongly influence their play/stats.

Off the bat, the sens have a better blueline, I'll give you that one, no argument from me. So obviously karlsson will have an edge and may appear better than Subban, simply due to the fact he has better support. The only way to really judge in a game type scenario, is to have each player playing with the same linemates as the other and facing the same opponents.

As aforementioned sens have a better blueline, which could make decent dmen appear like good, solid dmen.

Sens may have the better blueline, but the habs have the stronger offense. habs scored 149 goals this season to the sens 116. And here is where the sens are better, habs GA is 126 to the sens 104.

This series will not be a grinded out series, it'll be a defensive battle.

Yikes! If it does turn out that way then based even on what you say, the Senators should be favored to win. Weren't the Senators the #1 defensive team in the League?

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Also 'better blueline' needs qualification. I'd say the Sens have better blueline defense, certainly. But we were one of the top teams in the league in terms of scoring from our blueline, so we have the advantage there. And it's not just one guy. Subban and Markov are the big guns, but Diaz should start to heat up now that he's had a chance to shake off the concussion rust.

Dont forget Weber

or our PP of Gorges-Bouillion :P

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Yikes! If it does turn out that way then based even on what you say, the Senators should be favored to win. Weren't the Senators the #1 defensive team in the League?

i don't know if they were the top team defensively, but do know they were one of the better defensive teams despite all the injuries.

Not that the data should be thrown out or anything, but we were one of the stingier teams in the league until that horrible stretch of games in April that really screwed up our GA.

Yes, that bad stretch in April really influenced our GA. As it stand today, we basically have the same blueline that struggled through April. Unless Tinordi has a complete turn around and becomes the 2nd coming of Robinson, we can expect more struggles defensively.

And yes weep, when i said the sens have the better blueline, I was talking defensively. Offensively, i think the 2 teams stack up pretty well against each other, with the habs having a slight advantage.

The sens have karlson and Gonchar as their offensive blueliners. The habs have Subban, marky (despite his defensive game) and with the return of Diaz have 3 very capable offensive dmen. i really hope Diaz can stay healthy next season so we can see what he can do over an 82 game season.

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i don't know if they were the top team defensively, but do know they were one of the better defensive teams despite all the injuries.

Yes, that bad stretch in April really influenced our GA. As it stand today, we basically have the same blueline that struggled through April. Unless Tinordi has a complete turn around and becomes the 2nd coming of Robinson, we can expect more struggles defensively.

And yes weep, when i said the sens have the better blueline, I was talking defensively. Offensively, i think the 2 teams stack up pretty well against each other, with the habs having a slight advantage.

The sens have karlson and Gonchar as their offensive blueliners. The habs have Subban, marky (despite his defensive game) and with the return of Diaz have 3 very capable offensive dmen. i really hope Diaz can stay healthy next season so we can see what he can do over an 82 game season.

Somewhat of the same blueline. Being without both Tinordi and Diaz at the same time is really when the wheel's came off though. A healthy Diaz and Tinordi (if he continues at his current level of play) is a pretty big improvement.

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The Sens are not struggling as much as one would think now that Karlsson is back.

No offense, but how can you make that judgement after 3 games? Karlsson is an elite defenseman but you cant say that his return somehow turned the Senators' into a contender with a 3 game sample size. In his 3 games back, you beat the bruins, you beat the caps in OT and you lost to the Flyers. All were 1 goal games (yes, there was an empty netter vs. the bruins) so they were close.

I think its going to be a great series but I dont think you can make statements about a trend or a pattern based solely on 3 games.

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No offense, but how can you make that judgement after 3 games? Karlsson is an elite defenseman but you cant say that his return somehow turned the Senators' into a contender with a 3 game sample size. In his 3 games back, you beat the bruins, you beat the caps in OT and you lost to the Flyers. All were 1 goal games (yes, there was an empty netter vs. the bruins) so they were close.

I think its going to be a great series but I dont think you can make statements about a trend or a pattern based solely on 3 games.

Exactly. Despite finishing our season with 2 wins, Im still a little worried about those last 2 weeks.

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No offense, but how can you make that judgement after 3 games? Karlsson is an elite defenseman but you cant say that his return somehow turned the Senators' into a contender with a 3 game sample size. In his 3 games back, you beat the bruins, you beat the caps in OT and you lost to the Flyers. All were 1 goal games (yes, there was an empty netter vs. the bruins) so they were close.

I think its going to be a great series but I dont think you can make statements about a trend or a pattern based solely on 3 games.

Definately, making statements based on a 3 game stretch is definately not the best way of looking at it. But, that is the team your facing tonight. With 5 players back within the past 9 games that have been out for the majority of the season or the whole season really affects the goal scoring. Also, we have not beat Boston all year long until that last game. Which was a major accomplishment or we would be playing Pittsburg and the Canadiens would have played the Leafs.

In the end, all i am saying is this is a different team than 9 games ago. It is hard to use the season missing 5 of your first line players as a proper guideline for how we will play in the playoffs. 4 20minute+ players coming back to the lineup and getting Conacher at the deadline with the young Pageau in the line up essentially makes it a total different team that plays the same system.

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. Thus, low scoring and pure defence and lack of depth that the majority of analysts are talking about and the stats are flawed considering so many Sens were injured and not playing throughout the season, but are now back.

In a couple of games, hopefully Spezza will be back :)

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Definately, making statements based on a 3 game stretch is definately not the best way of looking at it. But, that is the team your facing tonight. With 5 players back within the past 9 games that have been out for the majority of the season or the whole season really affects the goal scoring. Also, we have not beat Boston all year long until that last game. Which was a major accomplishment or we would be playing Pittsburg and the Canadiens would have played the Leafs.

In the end, all i am saying is this is a different team than 9 games ago. It is hard to use the season missing 5 of your first line players as a proper guideline for how we will play in the playoffs. 4 20minute+ players coming back to the lineup and getting Conacher at the deadline with the young Pageau in the line up essentially makes it a total different team that plays the same system.

I don't know if the sens beat boston or if boston beat themselves. They've been off lately and due to rescheduling had to play 6 games in 8 days, with (without looking it up) 2 or 3 of those being back to back.

We're thankful you beat boston, but a lot of us around here felt the sens had the edge. For the reasons stated above... they've been off, a lot of games in a short period of time and had a few banged up players.

Sens are a resilient team, showed a lot of character this season. So I'm not trying to take away from their win over the b's, but they did have an advantage.

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Offensively, i think the 2 teams stack up pretty well against each other, with the habs having a slight advantage.

This isn't a small sample or a fluke: we scored significantly more goals than Ottawa did this season, forwards and d-men. Our top-nine is stronger than Ottawa's. That's not a 'slight' advantage, it's our main advantage.

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In the end, all i am saying is this is a different team than 9 games ago. It is hard to use the season missing 5 of your first line players as a proper guideline for how we will play in the playoffs. 4 20minute+ players coming back to the lineup and getting Conacher at the deadline with the young Pageau in the line up essentially makes it a total different team that plays the same system.

Of course your a lot better now than before. But you still can't say your deeper than us.

Ryder-Plekanec-Gionta

Paccioretty-Desharnais-Bourque

Galchenyuk-Eller-Gallagher

Prust-Halpern/White-Moen

Armstrong

Gorges-Subban

Markov-Diaz

Bouillon-Tinordi

Drewiske

Or a D like

Markov-Subban

Gorges-Diaz

Bouillon-Tinordi

Drewiske

vs

Alfredsson-Turris-Michalek

Silfverberg-Zibanagad-Conacher

Latendresse-Smith-Neil

Greening-Pageau-Condra

Methot-Karlsson

Cowen-Gonchar

Phillips-Gryba

Our line up, especially when it comes to scoring(even if you had Spezza) is a lot deeper. IMO, even our third line is better than your 2nd.

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