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2016-17 State of the Habs


BigTed3
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Im not a big fan of Max

Meaningless was probably an incorrect choice of words

Maybe I should have used clutch or something .

Whatever , I don't think he should be captain either .

you're right though, he's never been clutch and I don't think he should have been captain

I love his goal scoring nonetheless though

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I'm sort of surprised at the Pacioretty backlash over this, this was brewing long before any of the irrelevant Pacioretty - Subban whispers. I'm not prepared to pick sides in a hypothetical, rumored feud where we don't even actually know what the 2 were feuding about and thus who was right/wrong. People dislike each other to varying degrees in any work place. There's only innuendo other than that though. The concept that Pacioretty was probably asked about the trade is also a who knows scenario, maybe true but also logical that they spoke to Price seeing as he's the franchise player, he knows Weber well and he has a very specific view of playing behind PK. Am I to be angry at Price too that this went down based on the logic that management probably spoke to him?

Also, on the clutch goal thing. Pacioretty has a ton of game winning goals the last few years. Near the top of the league. People are frustrated by goal scorers in just about every market because they're streaky but in an NHL where 40 goals makes you a scoring God, it's the way it is. Pacioretty actually scored the series winning goal in both our series wins in 2014. I just don't buy the not clutch thing. It's mostly just that when you put either a C or a big contract on a guy he immediately becomes a lightning rod and people immediately are unsatisfied with what he does. Same thing happened to PK, people treated him differently after the contract. Pacioretty had a good year that was meh by his very high standards. He's a fantastic player, in his prime on an unbelievable deal. I'm also not buying that he's in anyway responsible for this trade, guys on a team dislike each other almost all the time, they'd have had to HATE each other to make it so untenable one had to be traded and I just didn't see that.

I truly think that management and the coach didn't like PK from the DAY they took over. Therrien was on French TV bashing Subban before he was hired and Bergevin just has an old school image of how a DMan plays, an image that fits very well with Shea Weber's game and somehow misjudges PK as some sort of riverboat gambler. I also don't think they cared for the way they drove a hard line on PK, he held out, came back, won the Norris and then commanded a 9 million dollar salary, which is petty, immature and their own doing but both Bergevin and Therrien strike me as stubborn and egotistical to a fault.

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okay what about all the nonsense spewed about PK... like you're doing now? I like Max but I can't blame people for being upset that PK is gone

How am i spewing about PK? he is one of my favorite players! my point there is if you are going to hold one of the leaders of the team to a certain standard then all of the team leaders should be at the same standard. the captain the assistants and the top end veterans. none of them pulled the team out of the slump so how is it that patches is regarded as less of a leader than any of them? folks are losing their minds about PK leaving and i get that but it seems folks are lashing out at anyone they feel was not one of PK's BFF's!

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My Hopes for a Perfect 2017/18 season

  1. Habs are boring and mediocre and miss the playoffs. Not first pick overall awful ... I don't want them to profit in any way ... just bad enough to miss the playoffs .... BONUS Marks if they are consistently humiliated by the surging LEAFS on National TV...
  2. Attendance down by 10% ..... say 2,000 tickets per game at average of $85.00/seat times 41 games = $7MM loss in revenue plus about say $10MM opportunity cost of missing playoffs .... hmmmmm .... that is serious nosh!!! haha too bad Molson .... have a beer!!!!
  3. Chants of PK PK PK reign down in home opener and fans go crazy on Mar 2nd when PK comes to town and cheer him on every touch!!! He has HUGE game and is game's first star .... STANDING OVATION .....
  4. Max Nonfactoretty scores under 20 goals and there are rumours of a dressing room rift by the end of the season
  5. GallyA asks for a trade at the end of the season
  6. DD named new Habs Captain

Ahhhhh ...... all would be right once again in this old world ......

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Wow 40 meaningless goals! guy has an off year and he is a bum! so we should just let him go right? is seem to remember him being our go to guy in the past. guy missed the whole off season due to injury so he starts the year totally behind the rest of the league when it comes to conditioning on top of taking over the weight of being captain in a year we lose the only nhl ready goalie we had and still somehow manages to score 30 with all the crap going on around him and he is meaningless? and as for the dressing room what did PK do for it? does he get a free pass for not providing leadership? the bias that many have on this forum is incredible! some of the things that get said about some of the players and staff is a disgrace! these folks all want to win to get to where they are they have all been winners in the past. internet gives folks a free pass to spew bile.

the vitriol is because what p.k did was go out and lead the team in scoring and put in a star performance. and get literally zero credit for it.

the common thread here is this coach and this gm have been making obvious mistakes for a while now and the wrong guys get the rap for it. it strikes a very deep cord with fans.

im going to expand on my point in the trade thread......if you have a ruling body which is fundamentally doing it wrong, and you are among the individuals who are aware of it....you are by definition a disruptive element. but that doesnt make you the problem objectively. in fact, you are unfortunately the lone voice of reason

this team is not being run right. the coach is horrible, and the gm is 5 miles off the reservation deciding to hitch his wagon to him. ted is 100% correct....good chemistry comes from a winning culture. our coach is a loser (not in the pejorative sense, he just makes horrible decisions which lead to losses) and the guys who buy in are the good guys and the guys who dont are the cancer. its completely backwards and its why we are heading right back into yet another habs dark age where we have alienated the fan base and chosen to remain in the stone ages with our philosophy

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the vitriol is because what p.k did was go out and lead the team in scoring and put in a star performance. and get literally zero credit for it.

the common thread here is this coach and this gm have been making obvious mistakes for a while now and the wrong guys get the rap for it. it strikes a very deep cord with fans.

im going to expand on my point in the trade thread......if you have a ruling body which is fundamentally doing it wrong, and you are among the individuals who are aware of it....you are by definition a disruptive element. but that doesnt make you the problem objectively. in fact, you are unfortunately the lone voice of reason

this team is not being run right. the coach is horrible, and the gm is 5 miles off the reservation deciding to hitch his wagon to him. ted is 100% correct....good chemistry comes from a winning culture. our coach is a loser (not in the pejorative sense, he just makes horrible decisions which lead to losses) and the guys who buy in are the good guys and the guys who dont are the cancer. its completely backwards and its why we are heading right back into yet another habs dark age where we have alienated the fan base and chosen to remain in the stone ages with our philosophy

Very well said Jeff ....

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I'm sort of surprised at the Pacioretty backlash over this, this was brewing long before any of the irrelevant Pacioretty - Subban whispers. I'm not prepared to pick sides in a hypothetical, rumored feud where we don't even actually know what the 2 were feuding about and thus who was right/wrong. People dislike each other to varying degrees in any work place. There's only innuendo other than that though. The concept that Pacioretty was probably asked about the trade is also a who knows scenario, maybe true but also logical that they spoke to Price seeing as he's the franchise player, he knows Weber well and he has a very specific view of playing behind PK. Am I to be angry at Price too that this went down based on the logic that management probably spoke to him?

Also, on the clutch goal thing. Pacioretty has a ton of game winning goals the last few years. Near the top of the league. People are frustrated by goal scorers in just about every market because they're streaky but in an NHL where 40 goals makes you a scoring God, it's the way it is. Pacioretty actually scored the series winning goal in both our series wins in 2014. I just don't buy the not clutch thing. It's mostly just that when you put either a C or a big contract on a guy he immediately becomes a lightning rod and people immediately are unsatisfied with what he does. Same thing happened to PK, people treated him differently after the contract. Pacioretty had a good year that was meh by his very high standards. He's a fantastic player, in his prime on an unbelievable deal. I'm also not buying that he's in anyway responsible for this trade, guys on a team dislike each other almost all the time, they'd have had to HATE each other to make it so untenable one had to be traded and I just didn't see that.

I truly think that management and the coach didn't like PK from the DAY they took over. Therrien was on French TV bashing Subban before he was hired and Bergevin just has an old school image of how a DMan plays, an image that fits very well with Shea Weber's game and somehow misjudges PK as some sort of riverboat gambler. I also don't think they cared for the way they drove a hard line on PK, he held out, came back, won the Norris and then commanded a 9 million dollar salary, which is petty, immature and their own doing but both Bergevin and Therrien strike me as stubborn and egotistical to a fault.

This post is an excellent example on how to respond to the differing opinions being expressed in the forum without getting personal towards either side. Many in here should take note. Thank's for this Roy.

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The bottom line with the point that's being made is that Therrien and Bergevin seemed to be upset by PK having success. It was never about winning for them, it was about making sure PK didn't get any of the credit for team success. As Anthony Stewart alluded to on twitter, he's never seen an organization treat a player so badly and go out of its way to bash him down. From the "make him a better person" comment to refusing to play him on the penalty kill to repeated benchings for small mistakes to refusing to support him for Team Canada to the bridge contract to refusing to give him a big contract until Geoff Molson stepped in... MT and MB have done everything they can to bash this player and make his life miserable. And then they lie to us and claim there was never a problem with Subban. And yet on 24CH, you see clips of Therrien and Daigneault absolutely laying into Subban for little things while Markov and Emelin and Pacioretty and Plekanec and Desharnais aren't held accountable in the least. In fact, when Pacioretty made a mistake, Therrien found a way to blame Subban!

When it comes to Price vs. Pacioretty, I'm simply less upset about Price. Pacioretty was rumored in the media several times to have gotten into it with PK, not Carey. Pacioretty is the one who has on many occasions refused to say anything nice about Subban while Subban lauds Pacman. Price and Subban sit together on the team bus and they had the triple low five (until it was taken away). I could be wrong, but the optics are that Price and Subban got along well, whereas Pacioretty and Subban did not. I have never had the feeling that Price was on Team Therrien. I have the feeling Price just shuts his mouth and does his job. With Pacioretty, even before he was captain, he has always just spewed rhetoric to the media and basically quotes his coach word for word on what the team has to do or what the problems are. I've heard Pacman a few times talk about how "players" need to "focus on the team and stop being individualistic" and so on. He just does Therrien's bidding. Again, Pacman is a fantastic player on the ice, but he's not a good captain and he basically acts as a coach's mouthpiece. That's why I feel he's a bigger part of the foxhole group.

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There's a foxhole? The fans and media are clearly getting dangerous!! I think Bergy and Therrien knew PK was different and weren't sold on his commitment to the team. I think this can be seen in PK\s play this year. Pk was definitely sold on the city and traditions, but I don't think his vision came anywhere close to that of most people working for the team. I think Molson made a mistake and sent the wrong message when he intervened in negotiations and took any power out of MT and MB's hands when he did so. The message PK got was Montreal wants you, but it was not a decision based on any pure hockey logic as it came from the owner. Well PK and the owner can love each other but it doesn't help the team or the dressing room. The owner has shown he had PK's back andd that is no way to run a hockey team. Funny how some see Molson as complicite in letting him go, nut I think Mokson created his own problem here. I hope Mr. Molson either A) trusts who he hires in the future to run hockey operations and stays to what he does best or B) Makes sure he hires people he trusts in the future so he doesn't over ride the managements decisions. Owners that meddle with players should be in foxholes.

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Guest Regis2

Well after all these signings

The team is what it is .

Let hope CP's knee holds up

I keep hearing , through various sources , that the Habs are better with Weber, let's hope so .

PK is gone , so whatever issues there were in the room , let's hope they are resolved , and those who had issues with him grow up and go out on the ice and give as much effort as PK did

The kid ( D man ) drafted by the Habs is suppose to be a keeper and there are those who think he is ready now .

I hope so, I would hate to put him in the AHL with SL and let him ruin the kid .

And let's hope Muller has a ALOT of influence in the decisions because the four guys that have behind the bench leave a lot to be desired

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Guest Regis2

. I think this can be seen in PK\s play this year. Pk was definitely sold on the city and traditions, but I don't think his vision came anywhere close to that of most people working for the team.

PK bent on building his brand :wacko:

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PK is gone , so whatever issues there were in the room , let's hope they are resolved , and those who had issues with him grow up and go out on the ice and give as much effort as PK did

The organization does not get to condescend to us on an unlimited basis. With the amount of stuff floated around in the hockey media after the trade, it had better be completely and totally resolved in a timely fashion. I won't hear a contrary word out of any of them. Not after the best skater on the team was run out of town and replaced by a measurably inferior one on the basis of "character" and "leadership". No, that privilege has been spent.

"You have to be a hockey lifer to understand the intangibles" goes the excuse often made by and for the anti-intellectual intelligentsia of the hockey world. In this era of gut feelings and clairvoyance we simply must have it their way: if the "chemistry" isn't absolutely immaculate after this, how can any of them expect to get yet another chance after letting it get so dreadfully poor in the first place? The team has a motto, after all.

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I am personally really excited for the season to start. I think they have a great line-up and will do well.

I think they are going to be very hard to score goals against and I'm going to be excited for every power play because of all the options.

Go HABS Go

I don't disagree with you. But I could have posted this last off-season too and felt equally good about things. When the beginning of October came around last year, we had a healthy Carey Price, we had a very dynamic Galchenyuk-Eller-Semin line that had lit up the pre-season, and we had what appeared to be good team depth coming off a winning season the year before. Yet despite a promising roster, this team fell flat, bad personnel decisions were made, and injuries caught up to us.

I do like the potential we have, but to be successful, we need to see a few things:

- Therrien can't coach like he has the past three years

- we need to play the young offensive players in offensive roles and not the journeymen pluggers. That means one of Lehkonen, Hudon, Scherbak, McCarron, or Reway should get a chance at the top 6, NOT someone like Flynn, Byron, or even Carr or Shaw for now.

- We cannot overtax our older or veteran players, many of whom will be in the World Cup before the season as well... Therrien needs to ration minutes for Price, Markov, Emelin, and Plekanec because all of those players have worn down as the season goes along in past years. It's not good enough for Therrien to say "Markov is older and can't play as much" but then still throw him out 26 minutes the next night.

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Guest Regis2

- we need to play the young offensive players in offensive roles and not the journeymen pluggers. That means one of Lehkonen, Hudon, Scherbak, McCarron, or Reway should get a chance at the top 6, NOT someone like Flynn, Byron, or even Carr or Shaw for now.

They have to earn it in training camp

Aside from McCarron I haven't seen any of them play but I don't think any of them will start the season in the NHL

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They have to earn it in training camp

Aside from McCarron I haven't seen any of them play but I don't think any of them will start the season in the NHL

I've seen them all play except Lehkonen, and frankly I think each of those guys is capable of making the team. I think they're all better options than Byron and Flynn, who I don't even really think fit on the roster at all. Lehkonen is a bit of wildcard to me because I don't know him well, but by all accounts he's very skilled and he's mature for his age. Reway also plays with a lot of skill but is small and will probably be sent to the AHL for a year at least. Scherbak has had flashes, but he was hurt last year and had a tough season. I think the Habs will probably want him to build himself back up in the minors before coming up as well.

So while I still see those players as being better than our scrubber options, I think the two guys who invariably deserve a chance are McCarron and Hudon. McCarron brings something to the line-up we don't have and he can be very effective on the wing and playing down low in front of the net. Hudon has been brilliant in the AHL the past two years and looked good in his short NHL stint last year. I think he needs to make the jump to the NHL and if he's paired with skill players, he might be a good option. Again, certainly better than seeing other journeymen on the club...

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I don't disagree with you. But I could have posted this last off-season too and felt equally good about things. When the beginning of October came around last year, we had a healthy Carey Price, we had a very dynamic Galchenyuk-Eller-Semin line that had lit up the pre-season, and we had what appeared to be good team depth coming off a winning season the year before. Yet despite a promising roster, this team fell flat, bad personnel decisions were made, and injuries caught up to us.

I do like the potential we have, but to be successful, we need to see a few things:

- Therrien can't coach like he has the past three years

- we need to play the young offensive players in offensive roles and not the journeymen pluggers. That means one of Lehkonen, Hudon, Scherbak, McCarron, or Reway should get a chance at the top 6, NOT someone like Flynn, Byron, or even Carr or Shaw for now.

- We cannot overtax our older or veteran players, many of whom will be in the World Cup before the season as well... Therrien needs to ration minutes for Price, Markov, Emelin, and Plekanec because all of those players have worn down as the season goes along in past years. It's not good enough for Therrien to say "Markov is older and can't play as much" but then still throw him out 26 minutes the next night.

-Muller will bring a new perspective and I don't think he or the existing coaching staff would have agreed to work with each other if they couldn't better the team.

-Like the last response, they need to earn it. I'd be happy to see any of these players make the jump into the top two. I think Hudon and Reway will be hard to pass up.

-True....but there are only a few of them. Montoya is certainly a more competent back-up then Condon to Price (IMO). With Markov, Emelin and Plekanec getting older I think well see guys like Danualt taking up minutes for Plekanec, Pateryn taking up minutes for Emelin and Barberio taking up minutes for Markov.

All those young players that haven't made the big team and the average age is only 27...that is a sign of real good depth.

Lastly, I think Sergachev is a huge pick up for the team. He is truly a wild card when it comes to training camp. I'm excited, you should be too.

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Guest habs1952

Totally and this is fine for tennis players, but team sports? Anyhow he will be successful, but it may not make for a long hockey career.

Wayne Gretzky had a long career building his brand.

TV commercial for Diet Coke (1989)

TV commercial for Nike (1989)

He did a series of TV commercials for Sharp Viewcam with his son Ty and father

TV commercial for 7-UP (Canada; early 80s)

TV commercial for Neilson's Mr Big Candy Bars (Canada: early 80s)

(1991) Print ads for Upper Deck Hockey Cards.

Hockey equipment endorsement: Titan/Jofa (Throughout the 80s)

Print ads for Cannon's T-70 35mm SLR Camera (1984-85).

Print ad: Easton Hockey equipment (1993)

Print ad: Ultra Wheels in-line skates (1993)

Print ad: Titan Hockey Sticks (1984)

TV commercial for McDonald's Canada (with father Walter Gretzky; late 90s)

Endosrsed Wayne Gretzky's Overtime Hockey, a table top hockey game (early 90s)

Print ads for the American Express card along with fellow hockey legend Gordie Howe (1990).

(1993) TV commercial for Upper Deck Trading Cards

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Just a few fan opinion polls:

- On Habs I/O, their current poll suggests 60% of fans feel Marc Bergevin should be fired following the PK Subban trade.

- According to 985sports (a French station), 90% of fans believe Michel Therrien should have been fired after last season. That's a pretty low approval rating, and that among a Francophone polling audience.

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Just a few fan opinion polls:

- On Habs I/O, their current poll suggests 60% of fans feel Marc Bergevin should be fired following the PK Subban trade.

- According to 985sports (a French station), 90% of fans believe Michel Therrien should have been fired after last season. That's a pretty low approval rating, and that among a Francophone polling audience.

Wow good to hear. I hope the poll is accurate and most of all, I hope it yields the desired results sooner than later.

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wow guy's how many times do you all have to say the same thing? there are probably hundreds of posts about MT and MB needing to get fired or ruining the team and anytime someone posts and say's they feel we are in good shape pretty much the same group of folks lash back with the same arguments. i think those of us who are looking to get something positive out of this team and forum got the message!

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