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2016-17 State of the Habs


BigTed3
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I agree. It's time to stop with all the dramatic nonsense this team carries on with. Just win some hockey games. No one will care about the torch, or the "no excuses" sign, or whatever silliness the club does... IF they would just win a Cup.

Yep.....History doesn't win games.

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Yep.....History doesn't win games.

Yeah. The team is too showy, really. By that I mean, they attempt to turn everything into some "event." I suppose they must employ a pretty big marketing team. However, as a die-hard fan, I just want to see the team perform well. I don't care about the ceremonies, etc. I just want to watch a good hockey team with entertaining players win hockey games.

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Yeah. The team is too showy, really. By that I mean, they attempt to turn everything into some "event." I suppose they must employ a pretty big marketing team. However, as a die-hard fan, I just want to see the team perform well. I don't care about the ceremonies, etc. I just want to watch a good hockey team with entertaining players win hockey games.

The entertainment is in Nashville now.

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Yeah. The team is too showy, really. By that I mean, they attempt to turn everything into some "event." I suppose they must employ a pretty big marketing team. However, as a die-hard fan, I just want to see the team perform well. I don't care about the ceremonies, etc. I just want to watch a good hockey team with entertaining players win hockey games.

I'll disagree with this. Yes, winning is probably the most important thing. But I think I'd rather cheer for a Habs team that plays well and gives a great show than a team in the southern US that plays boring hockey and has no entertainment value. Part of what makes the Habs so special is that they have the history, the tradition, the atmosphere at games, and the die-hard fans who go nuts for all the good stuff and aren't complacent about things the team is doing wrong. I don't need to have things be over-the-top, but give me guys like Koivu and Subban and Galchenyuk and Kovalev any day, guys who play well but also put on a great show and play the game with heart and with some fanfare. I don't mind if the Habs channel that into things that pump up the energy around the team. I think the whole torch theme has gotten overplayed and they need to come up with something else, but I'm not opposed to pre-game ceremonies that get the juices flowing.

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https://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/2016/08/31/calgary-flames-one-of-the-most-improved-teams-in-off-season.html

Montreal Canadiens

In the long run, the Canadiens will regret the P.K. Subban-for-Shea Weber trade, but in the short run Weber will help Montreal. When you have Carey Price, you want an intimidating force protecting the front of the net. The Canadiens wanted to be harder to play against, and the acquisition of Weber and Andrew Shaw will help in that regard. Who wants to play against a team that owns Weber, Shaw and Brendan Gallagher? Alexander Radulov will spark the offence. This is not an Alexander Semin situation

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Excerpt from the hockey writers article by Gregory Katz:

The fact is, a professional sports team shouldn’t need to have the words “No Excuses” in bold on their wall, since this should be a given. Part of working in professional sports is being able to take accountability when you mess up. This goes for all members within an organization, whether it’s a player, coach, or manager. Luckily for the Habs’ organization, this season presents an opportunity for redemption.

There isn’t any time for excuses for Therrien and Bergevin, as the team now has their star goalie back and a scorer that should contribute to 5-on-5 offence as well as the power-play. Therrien and Bergevin have had their chance to change things, and now having two key pieces that were missing last year, it’s time to see some results. If the two can’t succeed now, Habs fans had better hope for some changes. For now, though, fans should cross their fingers and pray for a healthy 2016-17 season for their club.

The Habs could be a team that surprises many this coming season since there has been such a shift in team direction. Plus, adding the best player in the world to your lineup will surely help.

http://thehockeywriters.com/the-fire-has-been-lit-under-therrien-and-bergevin/

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So..........

-PK is traded

-The stats guy 's contract was not renewed

-Kevin Gilmore, Geoff Molson’s right-hand man. Gilmore — the Canadiens’ executive vice-president and chief operating officer — left the club in mid-June, with the Canadiens announcing the news late in the day at the time and offering little detail as to why he was departing after five successful years heading up marketing initiatives with the Habs.

The team said he was leaving to pursue other business opportunities and there was a lot of speculation he would join the executive ranks of another NHL team. But more than two months later, he’s still a free agent, though there were reports he is working as a consultant for the New York Islanders. He is also, on paper at least, a consultant to the Canadiens

and

the Habs had parted ways with team physician Vincent Lacroix, who was head doctor for the Canadiens for the past three years and has been associated with le bleu-blanc-et-rouge for 12 years. TVA Sports reported he is leaving for administrative reasons — whatever that means — and it’s not related to the injury that sidelined Carey Price for most of the past season.

So what happened there? Did he leave willingly? Was that also perhaps a behind-the-scenes managerial conflict? There’s been endless chatter this summer about the big player moves made by Bergevin, but the fact is there were also some major personnel shifts behind-the-scenes at the Bell Centre.

http://www.hockeyinsideout.com/news/what-the-puck-huge-contract-for-wee-davey-was-big-mistake-for-canadiens

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For all those people who don't think Marc Bergevin and Team Canada had it out for PK Subban, lines at their team practice today featured Alex Pietrangelo playing on the LEFT of Brent Burns, while lefty Jay Bouwmeester was the odd man out. So for all the times that Canada clung to the excuse that they couldn't take Subban because they didn't want a righty playing the left side, that just went right out the window. Racism and prejudice just moved up the list yet again.

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For all those people who don't think Marc Bergevin and Team Canada had it out for PK Subban, lines at their team practice today featured Alex Pietrangelo playing on the LEFT of Brent Burns, while lefty Jay Bouwmeester was the odd man out. So for all the times that Canada clung to the excuse that they couldn't take Subban because they didn't want a righty playing the left side, that just went right out the window. Racism and prejudice just moved up the list yet again.

Team Canada has been quite lucky; the rest of the world has been two tiers below Canada for as long as the game's existed. The joke that Canada's B team could win Silver in international competitions has pretty much been right on, despite the occasional hiccup in short tournaments. Hockey Quebec has had a similar sense of superiority despite absolutely no record of results or being responsible for an unquestionably elite player for a generation. When things are going well, few people feel a need to take risks or deeply examine how they operate. The stodgy, backward old guard has been insulated by a golden age. When you do incorrect things and get rewarded for it, you undergo conditioning.

This is changing, however. Canada has not kept up with the development methods pioneered by the United States, nor is it putting enough resources (on a national or provincial level, overall) at expanding the demographics hockey players come from. Exceptional talent is a function of random luck, and when a majority of promising hockey players come from places other than Canada, its monopoly on highly talented players is history. That could happen this decade. At which point, we'll see how important "leadership", "character", and "grit" truly are without elite talent.

Keen readers might recognize the Habs in that last sentence.

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Interesting read from Elliotte Friedman on the Subban trade, Hall trade, and Stamkos signing:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/23-minutes-shook-hockey-world/

A few things that caught my eye:

1. According to an NHL GM, Bergevin wishes he never had to talk about this trade again.

2. The Habs couldn't get a deal done with Edmonton because the Oilers didn't want the 9M cap hit when having to sign McDavid in the future. Montreal basically didn't have the options they wanted to make a deal and panicked because they absolutely wanted to trade Subban before his NTC kicked in... so even though the goal of a deal was originally to get younger players (or players the same age as Subban) back, they switched gears and went after the older guy because they didn't have another move to make. This is perhaps the most telling part of the whole article, basically saying MB wanted to get rid of Subban at all costs that he was willing to make a deal he didn't actually aim to make.

3. Price stating that Subban is a great offensive player but that he didn't fit into the style of coaching here. And then adding that Weber is better at moving the puck out of the zone quickly, even though advanced stats show Subban is the better defensive player and puck mover. Shows how much players are brainwashed by the story they're given as well.

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if you want it to be a bad trade well great it is a bad trade. to say that the players who feel it may be good for the team are brainwashed or stodgy and caught in a golden age is a bit much! these are the guy's who are on the ice playing the game and in the room, none of us will ever have the perspective they have to think that we here sitting in front of our computers know better is ''laughable''

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3. Price stating that Subban is a great offensive player but that he didn't fit into the style of coaching here. And then adding that Weber is better at moving the puck out of the zone quickly, even though advanced stats show Subban is the better defensive player and puck mover. Shows how much players are brainwashed by the story they're given as well.

He actually said that Weber "makes quick plays and is able to move the puck right away", which I think is pretty accurate. I didn't read that quote so much as a comparison of who is better, but rather as Price contrasting their styles of play. PK is more likely to hold on to the puck and maybe take a chance, Weber is more likely to make a quick play to get the puck off his stick. Is one of those two styles inherently better? People (including me) have their own opinions on that. But is one of those two styles a better fit for what Therrien is trying to do with the team? Absolutely, 100%.

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He actually said that Weber "makes quick plays and is able to move the puck right away", which I think is pretty accurate. I didn't read that quote so much as a comparison of who is better, but rather as Price contrasting their styles of play. PK is more likely to hold on to the puck and maybe take a chance, Weber is more likely to make a quick play to get the puck off his stick. Is one of those two styles inherently better? People (including me) have their own opinions on that. But is one of those two styles a better fit for what Therrien is trying to do with the team? Absolutely, 100%.

I think this is an accurate interpretation of what was said, it makes the most sense at least.

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No offense to CP but what exactly is the Canadiens system, how are they coached and structured . Because if not for yourself CP the Habs would not have made the playoffs 2 years ago. Who do the Habs have on the back end that can make quick plays and move the puck right away . I recall this team chipping the puck off the glass / boards to get it out of their zone .

http://www.hockeyinsideout.com/news/carey-price-says-p-k-subban-simply-didnt-fit-into-canadiens-system

http://www.hockeyinsideout.com/news/carey-price-says-p-k-subban-simply-didnt-fit-into-canadiens-system

P.K. is an offensive defenceman and a risk-taker,” the goalie added. “That’s made him successful, that’s the way he plays the game. He doesn’t want to change that and I respect that. I respect the way that he plays the game … his type of enthusiasm and his ability to raise fans out of their seats. That’s a special gift and something that not very many players are able to do. But the way we’re coached on our team, the way our team is structured, that’s not what were looking for. We’re looking for a steady type of defenceman that makes quick plays and is able to move the puck right away. Shea fits that bill perfectly

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He actually said that Weber "makes quick plays and is able to move the puck right away", which I think is pretty accurate. I didn't read that quote so much as a comparison of who is better, but rather as Price contrasting their styles of play. PK is more likely to hold on to the puck and maybe take a chance, Weber is more likely to make a quick play to get the puck off his stick. Is one of those two styles inherently better? People (including me) have their own opinions on that. But is one of those two styles a better fit for what Therrien is trying to do with the team? Absolutely, 100%.

He stated Weber fit the bill for a guy who moves the puck and makes quick plays, but the implication of "that's not what we're looking for" when referring to Subban is that Subban isn't good at moving the puck quickly. he also referred to Subban as an "offensive defenceman" and a "risk-taker." So once again, I'll ask how Subban was labeled with those designations?

Referring back to actual objective measures, Subban is a better defensive defenceman that Weber. He gets on more loose pucks in his own zone, he has a higher rate of successful completed plays coming out of his own zone, he has more time in control of the puck, he has a higher Corsi relative to his team... sure, he's flashy with the puck and he occasionally skates end to end, but I don't see how that makes him a risk taker or an offensive specialist. The implication is that Subban falls in the same category as a player like Mark Streit or Marc Andre Bergeron, guys who really had offensive skill but didn't offer much in their own zones. Even Erik Karlsson gets beat more often and has worse defensive stats than Subban, but I haven't heard anyone labeling Karlsson a risk to his team.

I get your point that Weber passes the puck more, whereas Subban skates it out himself more frequently, but Subban is still successfully clearing his own zone at a higher rate than Weber and he's been doing that in a system which is clearly flawed. The Habs frequently go for long bomb passes (which have a low success rate) and most of the Habs D were in the top echelon for turnovers, with all of the regulars having worse turnover rates than Subban. If we're going to bash Subban for turning over the puck and being a risk taker, then you need to bash Markov and Emelin and Petry and Beaulieu for turning the puck over at even higher rates. You have to bash Weber for turning the puck over at a higher rate. And Karlsson. You need to bash Therrien for having a system that provides no puck support for the defenceman trying to clear his own zone, forcing him to play the puck to the other team directly or else try a low percentage pass deep down the ice. Those aren't Subban issues. Those are systems issues. Subban's absolute numbers are higher because he has the puck so much more, but that's the end of his implication in the team's defensive flaws. It's just madness to single him out, which is what MT and MB and some media people have done.

Price is wrong when he says the team doesn't need a player who plays Subban's game. Every team benefits from a guy with a high percentage of successful plays in his own zone. Who cares if it's a pass or a skate out? He's getting the puck out of danger and maintaining possession going up ice. We see the benefits of this in terms of Corsi. With Subban on, we frequently had Corsi's in the 55-60% range last year and Corsi's of 30-40% without him on. What he's doing was working. What wasn't working was Therrien's assessment that this was bad for the team. Therrien might have a better appreciation for a guy who passes well, but let's say Player A skates the puck out successfully 40% of the time he has the puck, passes it out successfully 30% of the time, and turns it over 30% of the time. And let's say Player B skates it out successfully 15% of the time, passes it out successfully 50% of the time and turns it over 35% of the time. And let's say Player A generates a better Corsi relative to the rest of his team. That's something akin to what we're looking at with Subban and Weber. We can argue about whether skating or passing it out is better, but Subban has a higher overall success rate all things combined AND his method of doing things is leading to a better shot attempt ratio for his team, so we're seeing the endpoint of that working well too. I agree with Price that Subban and the team's view of what works didn't gel. But that's more because the coach's view of what works doesn't mesh with what the stats are showing and what actually led to on-ice success.

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