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2016-17 State of the Habs


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How awesome it would be to see Kucherov and Galchenyuk playing 13 minutes a night with Matteau on their line!

13 minutes a night? Because we're going to be behind so much in so many games they'll be getting doubled shifted, right?

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How awesome it would be to see Kucherov and Galchenyuk playing 13 minutes a night with Matteau on their line!

You say that as a joke, but Galchenyuk got 15 minutes as the "first-line center" tonight, while Desharnais got 18. So...

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I say it as a joke, yes... A cruel joke that would probably be reality if MT remains as coach.

FWIW, apparently Dave Morrissette on TVA tonight said that Therrien doesn't deserve to be fired and the only people who want it are Anglophones. Such a closed-minded viewpoint. Yes, most anglophones want Therrien gone because they want a better coach. Many francophones also want him gone. The difference is that real hockey fans want the best man for the job hired, whereas separatists simply want to put the French language first.

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FWIW, apparently Dave Morrissette on TVA tonight said that Therrien doesn't deserve to be fired and the only people who want it are Anglophones. Such a closed-minded viewpoint. Yes, most anglophones want Therrien gone because they want a better coach. Many francophones also want him gone. The difference is that real hockey fans want the best man for the job hired, whereas separatists simply want to put the French language first.

Either Therrien's residual connections in the French media are incredibly strong, or these people are desperate. Why else would they choose a man as obviously incompetent and ill-suited to rally behind?

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FWIW, apparently Dave Morrissette on TVA tonight said that Therrien doesn't deserve to be fired and the only people who want it are Anglophones. Such a closed-minded viewpoint. Yes, most anglophones want Therrien gone because they want a better coach. Many francophones also want him gone. The difference is that real hockey fans want the best man for the job hired, whereas separatists simply want to put the French language first.

In that case, you could say that separatist hockey fans don't have their priorities straight.

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Guest Regis2

FWIW, apparently Dave Morrissette on TVA tonight said that Therrien doesn't deserve to be fired and the only people who want it are Anglophones.

whatever , his record is brutal, any other team would have canned him before Xmas

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Either Therrien's residual connections in the French media are incredibly strong, or these people are desperate. Why else would they choose a man as obviously incompetent and ill-suited to rally behind?

They stand behind him because he's their friend and because they know they really don't have anyone better to suggest as a candidate who speaks French. When you put in stupid rules like that, you pay the consequences for having them.

whatever , his record is brutal, any other team would have canned him before Xmas

Yup. And what bothers me more is that Cunneyworth went 18-23-9 as head coach in 50 games and everyone in the French media clamored about how terrible he was as a coach and how he should be fired and how this is what you get when you hire an Anglophone. In Therrien's last 53 games, he's 17-35-1. His record is far worse than what Cunneyworth had over a similar stretch. And yes, Therrien has had an injury-depleted line-up over the last 10-12 games, but Cunneyworth had that same type of depleted line-up for probably 30-35 of his games as head coach. So why does one guy get torn through the ripper while another guy is vehemently defended? Language. That's it. For a guy like Morrissette to defend Therrien smells of politics and nothing more.

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They stand behind him because he's their friend and because they know they really don't have anyone better to suggest as a candidate who speaks French. When you put in stupid rules like that, you pay the consequences for having them.

Choosing the cause of an evidently sub-NHL level coach as a hill to die on strikes me as strange, but that's their business not mine.

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Choosing the cause of an evidently sub-NHL level coach as a hill to die on strikes me as strange, but that's their business not mine.

Ever hear of the Darwin Awards. People 'die' for the stupidest of reasons.

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They stand behind him because he's their friend and because they know they really don't have anyone better to suggest as a candidate who speaks French. When you put in stupid rules like that, you pay the consequences for having them.

That's exactly the point IMO. There currently is no French-speaking coach available who can be considered a clear-cut upgrade on Therrien, simply because there aren't that many French-speaking NHL coaches to begin with. If Julien or Vigneault were available, you can bet the media would be singing a different tune.

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'Habs fans and management will look back on this season as a transition period. No, the team won’t start a rebuild this offseason, but they’ll continue a movement from old to young that has already been started. The passing of the torch from veterans who have been with the team for a long while will likely take place this summer and over the next year or so. Yes, Andrei Markov was still on the Canadiens’ first pairing, but that’s simply because he can be effective there if used right. Markov shouldn’t be playing 20-plus minutes per game. That said, if used sparsely, Markov can bring the experience and general calm demeanour to an otherwise fairly young group of defencemen.'

http://thehockeywriters.com/projecting-the-2016-17-montreal-canadiens-defence/

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That's exactly the point IMO. There currently is no French-speaking coach available who can be considered a clear-cut upgrade on Therrien, simply because there aren't that many French-speaking NHL coaches to begin with. If Julien or Vigneault were available, you can bet the media would be singing a different tune.

I think you could make a pretty strong argument for Boucher being a clear cut upgrade.

Also Dineen is probably an upgrade based on just about anyone's opinion - and he speaks Francais ...un peu.

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I think you could make a pretty strong argument for Boucher being a clear cut upgrade.

Also Dineen is probably an upgrade based on just about anyone's opinion - and he speaks Francais ...un peu.

I would be very happy with giving Dineen a shot. He's young but he has experience as a head coach, assistant coach, and international coach. He's currently with a very good mentor in Joel Quenneville. I think he's learned a lot from his experience and even when he was fire in Florida, he had done relatively well with the team he had. To me, he's got to be one of the top 2-3 candidates to explore. Let him learn French in the summers if it's that important.

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That's exactly the point IMO. There currently is no French-speaking coach available who can be considered a clear-cut upgrade on Therrien, simply because there aren't that many French-speaking NHL coaches to begin with. If Julien or Vigneault were available, you can bet the media would be singing a different tune.

Thats why we need to take advantage of the minor system and groom a young, bilingual, good coach in the AHL. Get a young coach with upside from the Q and see if he can start winning in the minors.

SL clearly isn;t getting the job done in STJ and it is doing us no good keeping him there. He's had some decent teams since he took over and hasn;t made the playoffs once. The french coaching pool is dry right now and the only way to get a good one will be to develop one ourselves.

In the mean time, hire Boucher as Therrien's replacement. Even if he;s not an upgrade, at least we tried. Keep him here for a few years until a younger new guy is ready.

Bringing Benoit Groulx into our coaching staff would make a lot of sense. If he is willing to accept an AHL head coaching job or an NHL asistant job, he could possibly be groomed to become head coach of the Habs one day.

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I think you could make a pretty strong argument for Boucher being a clear cut upgrade.

Also Dineen is probably an upgrade based on just about anyone's opinion - and he speaks Francais ...un peu.

Fair enough, I'd rather have Boucher than Therrien behind the bench next season, but he also comes with a couple of red flags. The infamous trap system he's used on occasion, lack of success/results after a spectacular playoff run in his rookie year, and his apparent fondness of Desharnais... Weren't there also rumors about him losing the room in Tampa pretty quickly after his first year? Granted, that's speculative and coming from the media, but it's still surprising to see how quickly a highly-touted coach like Boucher has fallen out of favor in this league. That said, these potential issues are nothing compared to MT's shortcomings and I'd be fine with hiring him as long as we're trading/buying out DD in the offseason.

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'Two positions that desperately need to be filled for Montreal are a top-six winger (or two) and a top-four defenceman. Montreal needs more players who can score consistently as relying on Max Pacioretty, Alex Galchenyuk, Tomas Plekanec and Brendan Gallagher isn’t enough. On defence, Andrei Markov is showing his age and taking him out of the lineup leaves a gaping hole.


Remove Markov from the left side and the next best options are Nathan Beaulieu and Alexei Emelin to fill that spot. Beaulieu has shown he can be a top-four player, but the Habs ideally need a player who can be PK Subban’s partner and play those heavy minutes consistently.


Both kinds of players are available in this year’s draft, so the Habs should go with the best player available and the possibility of them drafting a very good prospect is very high. Barring insane draft lottery luck or a trade, the Habs likely won’t get a shot at the Big Three but there are some others the Habs could target.'



http://thehockeywriters.com/why-the-2016-nhl-draft-is-crucial-for-the-montreal-canadiens/


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'Two positions that desperately need to be filled for Montreal are a top-six winger (or two) and a top-four defenceman. Montreal needs more players who can score consistently as relying on Max Pacioretty, Alex Galchenyuk, Tomas Plekanec and Brendan Gallagher isn’t enough. On defence, Andrei Markov is showing his age and taking him out of the lineup leaves a gaping hole.

Remove Markov from the left side and the next best options are Nathan Beaulieu and Alexei Emelin to fill that spot. Beaulieu has shown he can be a top-four player, but the Habs ideally need a player who can be PK Subban’s partner and play those heavy minutes consistently.

Both kinds of players are available in this year’s draft, so the Habs should go with the best player available and the possibility of them drafting a very good prospect is very high. Barring insane draft lottery luck or a trade, the Habs likely won’t get a shot at the Big Three but there are some others the Habs could target.'

http://thehockeywriters.com/why-the-2016-nhl-draft-is-crucial-for-the-montreal-canadiens/

I agree with your thoughts about the win especially if Galchenyuk can have a good year as a number one centre. I am sure it will be a struggle, but don't see him doing much other than at a 1st or 2nd line center. If we move Eller or Desharnais (or both) to the wing that leaves centre spots for Plekanec, Dannault and Mitchell. Plekanec's contract makes him tough to move and I believe Bergevin's contract of 6 million may come back to bite him as I don't think we got fair value this year and that is a lot of money to pay as his point totals are consistent year over year.

Galchenyuk, Beaulieu and Gallagher (before hurt) appear to be on the upswing with their performances this year. Markov, Emelin appear to be relatively fair value and Markov's contract might be a little tooo rich for some teams.

The Eller-Desharnais debate is an interesting one as Desharnais appears to provide more offense and Eller is better in his own zone and not bad in the offemsive zone. salary wise they are paid the same, but I think there is a better market for Desharnais than Eller at this point. I think both were slightly overpaid this year for the impact they have provided and cannot see both returning. We appear to be getting more balanced scoring (perhaps because of all the players we used) and this might make a move of one or both of these two players more likely. Eller will be receiving a pay increase over the next two years and this might make it harder to move him in the off-season. bergevin appears to recognize some value here, but I think Eller needs to respond to the vote of confidence next year. Desharnais enters the final year of his contract and it would be hard to see him getting a better contract afte next season.

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that leaves centre spots for Plekanec, Dannault and Mitchell.

I don't really think Danault has done anything to be given the third line centre position.

The Eller-Desharnais debate is an interesting one as Desharnais appears to provide more offense

This can be answered empirically rather easily. Through this season, David Desharnais has a 5-on-5 points per 60 of 1.55, compared to Lars Eller's 1.33. Considering David Desharnais has spent most of the season being given favourable deployment and linemates while Lars Eller was almost always carrying around boat anchors, that difference is insignificant. 5-on-5 possession is not close, however. Lars Eller is so far our 5-on-5 leader among centres, with 53.01% Corsi For. Desharnais is barely positive at 50.98%, again while having better opportunities basically throughout the season. It goes without saying that Desharnais has a much higher PDO.

There really isn't an Eller-Desharnais debate; Lars Eller is now, has been for a while, and will likely remain the superior player. If the priority is the performance of the team on the ice, the choice is clear.

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Guest Regis2

I don't really think Danault has done anything to be given the third line centre position.

Agree, other than being a favorite of MB

I'd give it to Flynn next year

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Guest habs1952

The Eller-Desharnais debate is an interesting one as Desharnais appears to provide more offense and Eller is better in his own zone and not bad in the offemsive zone. salary wise they are paid the same, but I think there is a better market for Desharnais than Eller at this point. I think both were slightly overpaid this year for the impact they have provided and cannot see both returning. We appear to be getting more balanced scoring (perhaps because of all the players we used) and this might make a move of one or both of these two players more likely. Eller will be receiving a pay increase over the next two years and this might make it harder to move him in the off-season. bergevin appears to recognize some value here, but I think Eller needs to respond to the vote of confidence next year. Desharnais enters the final year of his contract and it would be hard to see him getting a better contract afte next season.

If the Habs put both players on the trade market 29 teams would call about Eller whereas Deharnais might, might, get you a couple of calls.

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I agree with your thoughts about the win especially if Galchenyuk can have a good year as a number one centre. I am sure it will be a struggle, but don't see him doing much other than at a 1st or 2nd line center. If we move Eller or Desharnais (or both) to the wing that leaves centre spots for Plekanec, Dannault and Mitchell. Plekanec's contract makes him tough to move and I believe Bergevin's contract of 6 million may come back to bite him as I don't think we got fair value this year and that is a lot of money to pay as his point totals are consistent year over year.

Galchenyuk, Beaulieu and Gallagher (before hurt) appear to be on the upswing with their performances this year. Markov, Emelin appear to be relatively fair value and Markov's contract might be a little tooo rich for some teams.

The Eller-Desharnais debate is an interesting one as Desharnais appears to provide more offense and Eller is better in his own zone and not bad in the offemsive zone. salary wise they are paid the same, but I think there is a better market for Desharnais than Eller at this point. I think both were slightly overpaid this year for the impact they have provided and cannot see both returning. We appear to be getting more balanced scoring (perhaps because of all the players we used) and this might make a move of one or both of these two players more likely. Eller will be receiving a pay increase over the next two years and this might make it harder to move him in the off-season. bergevin appears to recognize some value here, but I think Eller needs to respond to the vote of confidence next year. Desharnais enters the final year of his contract and it would be hard to see him getting a better contract afte next season.

i gotta pile on here too habberwacky :P

danault at 3c and we trade eller is probably the single stupidest thing management could do

DD and eller is not even a debate

you heard it here first, we are going to buy the guy out. who is gonna trade for a 1 dimensional, tiny offensive player who requires mind boggling favouritism by a coaching staff just to put up 40 ish points and gets paid 3.5 mil....

either we would have to take a bad contract back, which we wont, a 6th rounder or something which i would dive on like a fat kid seeing a donut under the table at fat camp, or like i said hes gonna get bought out

eller is being actively sought after by other teams, we would actually get something back for him, not that its a good idea

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In terms of who is on the farm and who got call-ups:

At forward,

Bud Holloway 19-38-57 in 66 games in the AHL, got 1 NHL game on the 4th line

Charles Hudon 26-24-50 in 64 games, got 3 NHL games (2 on the 4th line when he averaged a PPG then was demoted)

Gabriel Dumont 19-27-46 in 67 games, got 0 NHL games this year

Max Friberg 12-23-35 in 63 games, got 0 NHL games this year

Among players who did get call-ups?

Lucas Lessio 10-11-21 in 42 games

Jacob De La Rose 4-7-11 in 30 games

John Scott 2-2-4 in 27 games

And at defence,

Morgan Ellis 14-23-37 in 69 games, got 3 NHL games

But hey, there was plenty of room for an extended look at

Darren Dietz, 4-12-16 in 58 games

Joel Hanley, 5-8-13 in 61 games

Victor Bartley 1-3-4 in 24 games

Not to mention recalls of Lernout and now Johnston ahead of Ellis.

Come on, man. No, not everything is about point production, but if you can't produce something at the AHL level you almost certainly won't succeed at the NHL level even as a checker. DLR has pretty consistently shown he's not ready to be in the NHL offensively. As smart as he is defensively, there's no role for a 3rd/4th line player who can't produce more than what he has. Bartley was a flop, one who was passed on by every team in the league, but whom the Habs stuck with seemingly to prove they got something in the Tinordi trade disaster. And while Dietz and Hanley have been okay, I found Ellis was better, albeit Hanley seems to have lucked into an unsustainable assist production through little of his own doing. What exactly Ryan Johnston did to earn a recall I'm still waiting to hear about.

If this team wanted to position itself to bring up real skill players next year and put them in a position to succeed, it needed to do more this year with these players. We failed to developed Beaulieu and Tinordi and Pateryn in a timely manner. And now we're failing to do the same with the likes of McCarron, Scherbak, Hudon, and so on. These are all players who could have benefited from free playing time in the top 6 at an NHL level this year. We were out of the playoff race, we had roster openings that permitted these moves, and all we had to do to make it happen was not play Mitchell, Byron, Flynn, DSP, Matteau, Danault, and Mike Brown in the top 6. Sadly, Therrien literally went through all of those latter players in the top 6 at one point and hasn't yet given due time to players who might actually help the top 6-9 next season. If the organization wants to address its failures, it need look only so far as the shortcomings of its GM in choosing call-ups and its coach in deploying them when they were in Montreal.

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