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2016-17 State of the Habs


BigTed3
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46 minutes ago, kinot-1 said:

Seen that hit, and Eakin didn't even try top slow down. We've all seen penalties that were not called and when we compare them with some penalties that were called we fans (and players) get frustrated. There's no consistency in this league. 

Oh I completely agree with Eakin being tossed. Who cares if Henrik looked down at the puck? Eakin still went in way too hard and too dangerously. But the same can be said about Krug. I don't buy the ludicrous explanation that Shaw caused the problem by reaching for the puck with his head lowered. His head was already lowered as he was striding, at least a couple of seconds before Krug made the hit. Krug picked the head. If Shaw isn't leaning forward, then Krug likely doesn't make any contact at all, yet Krug is lining up the hit, not going for the puck, so he was clearly okay with hitting the head as his only target. It's utter crap how they make this stuff up as they go. Start holding players accountable for any contact to the head, as they do in the NFL when any player hits a defenseless QB or receiver in the helmet or neck area.

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28 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Oh I completely agree with Eakin being tossed. Who cares if Henrik looked down at the puck? Eakin still went in way too hard and too dangerously. But the same can be said about Krug. I don't buy the ludicrous explanation that Shaw caused the problem by reaching for the puck with his head lowered. His head was already lowered as he was striding, at least a couple of seconds before Krug made the hit. Krug picked the head. If Shaw isn't leaning forward, then Krug likely doesn't make any contact at all, yet Krug is lining up the hit, not going for the puck, so he was clearly okay with hitting the head as his only target. It's utter crap how they make this stuff up as they go. Start holding players accountable for any contact to the head, as they do in the NFL when any player hits a defenseless QB or receiver in the helmet or neck area.

What I really hate is when Quintal says that the player getting hit, "put himself in a vulnerable position", as if to excuse the offending player. 

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We're almost halfway into this season, and I'm still finding it tough to feel an emotional attachment to this team. When you had guys like Richard, Beliveau, Robinson, Chelios, Keane, Gainey, Roy, Muller, Koivu, Kovalev, and yes Subban, you felt like these players really cared about wearing the CH on their jersey and that they understood the importance of the team and the city and what it meant to be a Hab. With Subban's departure, I feel like there's a fairly large void that's been created in terms of players who draw you in to cheer for the team.

To some degree, I get the passion from guys like Radulov, Galchenyuk, Gallagher, and Mitchell. But in large part, the leaders of this team are very bland personalities. Pacioretty, Price, Weber, Plekanec, Markov... these are guys who don't play with much emotion on most nights, save for Price's recent outbursts! And by that, I don't mean they don't try hard or that they don't care. These guys are great hockey players because they do care about their skill and about being professionals. But when they give interviews, they talk in cliches much of the time and I simply get the feeling they could be playing in any city and giving the media the same spiel. In past seasons, I felt like players like Subban, Weise, and Eller were more connected to the fans. But with Galchenyuk out and Gallagher a shell of his usual self, there just isn't much there that drums up passion and excitement these days.

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1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

We're almost halfway into this season, and I'm still finding it tough to feel an emotional attachment to this team. When you had guys like Richard, Beliveau, Robinson, Chelios, Keane, Gainey, Roy, Muller, Koivu, Kovalev, and yes Subban, you felt like these players really cared about wearing the CH on their jersey and that they understood the importance of the team and the city and what it meant to be a Hab. With Subban's departure, I feel like there's a fairly large void that's been created in terms of players who draw you in to cheer for the team.

To some degree, I get the passion from guys like Radulov, Galchenyuk, Gallagher, and Mitchell. But in large part, the leaders of this team are very bland personalities. Pacioretty, Price, Weber, Plekanec, Markov... these are guys who don't play with much emotion on most nights, save for Price's recent outbursts! And by that, I don't mean they don't try hard or that they don't care. These guys are great hockey players because they do care about their skill and about being professionals. But when they give interviews, they talk in cliches much of the time and I simply get the feeling they could be playing in any city and giving the media the same spiel. In past seasons, I felt like players like Subban, Weise, and Eller were more connected to the fans. But with Galchenyuk out and Gallagher a shell of his usual self, there just isn't much there that drums up passion and excitement these days.

I think you really said it ted.

this is my least favourite version of this team in a very long time, and i feel weird saying it with our current position in the standings...but thats how i feel.

we have price, and he will allow us to win games with low scoring, and it doesnt excite me. patch, gallagher, plek, gallagher, lead by team foxhole....i watch this team and all i feel is ugh wake me up when its over. give me koivu and the gang and cristobal huet stopping 45 shots a night. battle to the death with 1st place boston in the playoffs. these guys....meh. we won tonight. probably finish with decent standings in the playoffs, but the prevailing feeling is this isnt a real serious contender, an inch away from being a serious loser, and no chance of a shakeup.

 

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4 hours ago, jeff33 said:

 

 

4 hours ago, jeff33 said:

give me koivu and the gang and cristobal huet stopping 45 shots a night.

And those were the days when the gameday threads would reach around that same amount of pages!! What I miss most, besides Kovalev, is my stubborn love of Radek Bonk. 

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9 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

We're almost halfway into this season, and I'm still finding it tough to feel an emotional attachment to this team. When you had guys like Richard, Beliveau, Robinson, Chelios, Keane, Gainey, Roy, Muller, Koivu, Kovalev, and yes Subban, you felt like these players really cared about wearing the CH on their jersey and that they understood the importance of the team and the city and what it meant to be a Hab. With Subban's departure, I feel like there's a fairly large void that's been created in terms of players who draw you in to cheer for the team.

To some degree, I get the passion from guys like Radulov, Galchenyuk, Gallagher, and Mitchell. But in large part, the leaders of this team are very bland personalities. Pacioretty, Price, Weber, Plekanec, Markov... these are guys who don't play with much emotion on most nights, save for Price's recent outbursts! And by that, I don't mean they don't try hard or that they don't care. These guys are great hockey players because they do care about their skill and about being professionals. But when they give interviews, they talk in cliches much of the time and I simply get the feeling they could be playing in any city and giving the media the same spiel. In past seasons, I felt like players like Subban, Weise, and Eller were more connected to the fans. But with Galchenyuk out and Gallagher a shell of his usual self, there just isn't much there that drums up passion and excitement these days.

Nostalgia is also a funny thing, not that I necessarily disagree with you but back when we had those players, we used to see posts like this. Especially during the Koivu/Kovalev era.

As for the cliche thing, Pacioretty is a good example of a guy who had some emotion, he spoke out about the Chara hit very firmly, said some interesting things on Twitter about Marchand, told Jacques Martin on radio that if he wants to play him on the 4th line, to leave him in Hamilton lol, celebrated goals in funky ways, so how much of it is just that the management team has completely stomped that out of guys?

I don't know about Eller being overly connected to the fans, a lot of fans blindly hated on him and called him inconsistent but the other 2 definitely had that emotional connection and now they're both gone, not sure it's a coincidence. As for PK, I loved him, hate the trade but at times I found him to be almost too much. I remember him taking a penalty last year and jumping up and down arguing with the ref while the play was going on and it was just like man... take it down a notch. I guess my point is there's a good and bad side to over emotion, part of why Carey is so good is controlling that emotion. As much as it may suck for fans, I can understand why management would want it that way. Also though it's an emotional feeling and it's hard to decipher why we feel those emotional connections with certain players at times, but I've felt it at times too. I felt it really bad with the 09-10 team even though I loved Cammy, it just felt different, detached. I don't know. I had a feeling like honestly all 3 of Pacioretty, Price and Subban had a unique connection since they were drafted and grew up as Habs and yes it manifested its self in different ways but I think they all appreciated it and I enjoyed watching them grow and become all star caliber plays and all 3 faced some pretty major adversity before our eyes. Broken neck, loss of starting job and a constant at times unfair microscope.

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^^ Price is definitely great at his job in part because he stays calm and collected and doesn't let himself get too over-drawn into anything. But for the position players, I'd really just like to see a little more personality and character (as funny as that sounds, given that MB and MT think that character involves toeing the party line). I'll agree with you, roy, that Pacioretty seemed to have much more character and feistiness when he first came up. Whether that's been drummed out of him by managements or whether he's sobered down a bit with maturity, I don't know. But you had guys who were vets who still played with emotion regularly in the past. Take Kovalev going out of his way to drill Darcy Tucker while he was skating with the puck. Take Koivu in all his comebacks scoring big goals and always going hard to the net. Take Patrick Roy winking at the opposition. Even Carey and PK with their triple low five a couple of years ago was entertaining and showed some amount of character. Dale Weise skating around with his long hair and grabbing the microphones from reporters on the bench to make comments. Colby Armstrong and Brandon Prust ribbing their teammates on the ice, on the bench, or on twitter. Cammalleri coming up with clutch goals and Scott Gomez's dry sense of humor. This team just has very few players left willing to show any personality. Most of the guys just kind of fit into the cookie cutter image the team wants them to now. Not saying this is a bad thing for winning. This team has played pretty well this season. But in terms of my caring about this group, I'm finding it a lot harder than most years.

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7 hours ago, BizarreReverend said:

 

And those were the days when the gameday threads would reach around that same amount of pages!! What I miss most, besides Kovalev, is my stubborn love of Radek Bonk. 

oh my god.....did we just become best friends!? lol 

i loved radek bonk haha 

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3 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

^^ Price is definitely great at his job in part because he stays calm and collected and doesn't let himself get too over-drawn into anything. But for the position players, I'd really just like to see a little more personality and character (as funny as that sounds, given that MB and MT think that character involves toeing the party line). I'll agree with you, roy, that Pacioretty seemed to have much more character and feistiness when he first came up. Whether that's been drummed out of him by managements or whether he's sobered down a bit with maturity, I don't know. But you had guys who were vets who still played with emotion regularly in the past. Take Kovalev going out of his way to drill Darcy Tucker while he was skating with the puck. Take Koivu in all his comebacks scoring big goals and always going hard to the net. Take Patrick Roy winking at the opposition. Even Carey and PK with their triple low five a couple of years ago was entertaining and showed some amount of character. Dale Weise skating around with his long hair and grabbing the microphones from reporters on the bench to make comments. Colby Armstrong and Brandon Prust ribbing their teammates on the ice, on the bench, or on twitter. Cammalleri coming up with clutch goals and Scott Gomez's dry sense of humor. This team just has very few players left willing to show any personality. Most of the guys just kind of fit into the cookie cutter image the team wants them to now. Not saying this is a bad thing for winning. This team has played pretty well this season. But in terms of my caring about this group, I'm finding it a lot harder than most years.

The Habs have become a team of robots and I wonder if that's because of the system employed by the head coach. 

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Its funny how this has become "our image", this robot thing, as if thats what it means to be part of the habs. I was arguing this with a friend, also a habs fan, who was making this claim, and I said do you know who Rocket Richard is? do you know who Guy Lafleur is? Doug Harvey?

We had some truly crazy players over our history, and some of our biggest heroes were some of the craziest.

I feel like the day we chose the first team foxhole over Roy was when this paradigm shift began with this organization. its settled in its modern incarnation, and it means trading cammalleri mid game for nobody, because he god forbid was mad at playing like losers and commented on it. it means trading our best player and most popular player since lafleur for cliche shea on the back 9, it means giving the C to captain invisible.  I've said a couple of times here, I'm not even confident galchenyuk survives the foxhole era, I know it sounds silly but I feel like therrien gets heartburn every time he sees a guy try a deke. 

Like I said, these guys...this coach...this GM....my biggest excitement about the habs for now is when it all turns over.

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Nice effort last night but there are too many passengers and hanging on for dear life ain't gonna cut it when it comes to contending for a championship. We've got some pieces there but the rest are either well past their prime or should be given a one way ticket outta here.

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3 hours ago, jeff33 said:

Its funny how this has become "our image", this robot thing, as if thats what it means to be part of the habs. I was arguing this with a friend, also a habs fan, who was making this claim, and I said do you know who Rocket Richard is? do you know who Guy Lafleur is? Doug Harvey?

We had some truly crazy players over our history, and some of our biggest heroes were some of the craziest.

I feel like the day we chose the first team foxhole over Roy was when this paradigm shift began with this organization. its settled in its modern incarnation, and it means trading cammalleri mid game for nobody, because he god forbid was mad at playing like losers and commented on it. it means trading our best player and most popular player since lafleur for cliche shea on the back 9, it means giving the C to captain invisible.  I've said a couple of times here, I'm not even confident galchenyuk survives the foxhole era, I know it sounds silly but I feel like therrien gets heartburn every time he sees a guy try a deke. 

Like I said, these guys...this coach...this GM....my biggest excitement about the habs for now is when it all turns over.

I think Therrien has taken the fun out of the game for the players. It has now become a job. Perform or get benched. My way or the highway. No room for individuals. 

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On 12/18/2016 at 8:40 AM, BigTed3 said:

^^ Price is definitely great at his job in part because he stays calm and collected and doesn't let himself get too over-drawn into anything. But for the position players, I'd really just like to see a little more personality and character (as funny as that sounds, given that MB and MT think that character involves toeing the party line). I'll agree with you, roy, that Pacioretty seemed to have much more character and feistiness when he first came up. Whether that's been drummed out of him by managements or whether he's sobered down a bit with maturity, I don't know. But you had guys who were vets who still played with emotion regularly in the past. Take Kovalev going out of his way to drill Darcy Tucker while he was skating with the puck. Take Koivu in all his comebacks scoring big goals and always going hard to the net. Take Patrick Roy winking at the opposition. Even Carey and PK with their triple low five a couple of years ago was entertaining and showed some amount of character. Dale Weise skating around with his long hair and grabbing the microphones from reporters on the bench to make comments. Colby Armstrong and Brandon Prust ribbing their teammates on the ice, on the bench, or on twitter. Cammalleri coming up with clutch goals and Scott Gomez's dry sense of humor. This team just has very few players left willing to show any personality. Most of the guys just kind of fit into the cookie cutter image the team wants them to now. Not saying this is a bad thing for winning. This team has played pretty well this season. But in terms of my caring about this group, I'm finding it a lot harder than most years.

I agree we had plenty of it in the past but I guess it just makes me more convinced that the lack of it has more to do with management/coaching than the guys on the team specifically. The triple low 5 is a good example, that was like top priority for them to get rid of for some reason I still don't fully get but I mean, we saw what happens when you go off script. 

We're not that far removed from triple low 5s, Price doing poses after SO wins, Pacioretty with his offbeat celebrations and feistier personality. They're the 3 that were here and visible for both regimes and frankly, the only one who stayed the same was PK and he got a rough ride and was traded. 

Like you said, part of me understands it for winning and just how crazy the Montreal market can be but they're VERY sensitive about image issues and it seems a little crazy. Everyone got on Gauthier's case about it because he was more obvious in how controlled he wanted the message to be but Bergevin is just as bad, maybe worse. He just hides it with some charisma and a flamboyant style of dress. We're just as controlled. secretive and closed off.

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11 hours ago, roy_133 said:

I agree we had plenty of it in the past but I guess it just makes me more convinced that the lack of it has more to do with management/coaching than the guys on the team specifically. The triple low 5 is a good example, that was like top priority for them to get rid of for some reason I still don't fully get but I mean, we saw what happens when you go off script. 

We're not that far removed from triple low 5s, Price doing poses after SO wins, Pacioretty with his offbeat celebrations and feistier personality. They're the 3 that were here and visible for both regimes and frankly, the only one who stayed the same was PK and he got a rough ride and was traded. 

Like you said, part of me understands it for winning and just how crazy the Montreal market can be but they're VERY sensitive about image issues and it seems a little crazy. Everyone got on Gauthier's case about it because he was more obvious in how controlled he wanted the message to be but Bergevin is just as bad, maybe worse. He just hides it with some charisma and a flamboyant style of dress. We're just as controlled. secretive and closed off.

Fully agree. I think a lot of it has to do with the management regime, not only controlling player actions but also disposing of players who don't meet the desired image. But regardless of cause, the end result is that there aren't a lot of personalities to cheer for on this team. There aren't a lot of guys who look like they're playing their hearts out the way Koivu and Subban did on a near-nightly basis. There aren't a lot of guys who seem to have any kind of emotional bond with fans and the city. As I said, even guys like Weise and Kovalev seemed to make more of an effort to be a part of the city and drum up emotion for the team. Who do we have left? Markov, who's been a great soldier here for a long time but who doesn't really seem to care that much about being a public figure. Ditto for Plekanec. Pacioretty for the most part seems to have taken over for Josh Gorges as the toe-the-line, don't-ruffle-any-feathers leader. Price seems to care a lot about doing his job well, but he also doesn't seem to cherish the public eye all that much. Weber was a beast on the ice to start the year and he has a reputation as a great locker-room guy, but I haven't seen him do anything to reach out to fans nor do I feel like he cares much about being in Montreal. There just isn't much personality among many of the team's veteran leaders any more.

As for MB, I agree as well. Gauthier was secretive, but I feel like he just didn't say much, whereas with Bergevin I feel like we've been actively lied to on multiple occasions. For whatever reason, we get stories about how there's no problem with Subban when there clearly was one, we get false Price injury reports to try to persuade fans they shouldn't give up on the season, we get told Sylvain Lefebvre is doing a good job in the AHL, we get told all of last season can be blamed on Price's injury, we get told the team HAD to acquire John Scott but that we can't be told why, and so on... MB has been IMO far more secretive than Gauthier, he just hasn't had the media turn on him yet. I don't hate all of MB's moves, far from it. But I despise the way he's handled players on a personal level, how arrogant he's been with respect to lying to fans, and of course his refusal to admit Therrien and the other coaches have been a problem and instead going full-cronyism. I'm happy the team is doing well and I still cheer for them to win, but it's really hard to feel good about this team as a whole. If they lose, I just don't get as upset as I used to, and I think it's in large part because I don't care as much. I find it hard to feel bad for Therrien and Bergevin knowing how poorly they've treated so many players who didn't deserve it.

 

 

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Facing two of the hottest teams in the League in a B2B situation, is the next big test on the agenda. Minny riding an 8 game win streak and Columbus a 10 gamer. Can we ruin a couple of teams Christmases?

For the Columbus game,,,, both teams will be on their 3rd game in 4 nights, so it's likely we will face their backup at that point. They will have played the Pens the night before.

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4 hours ago, H_T_L said:

Facing two of the hottest teams in the League in a B2B situation, is the next big test on the agenda. Minny riding an 8 game win streak and Columbus a 10 gamer. Can we ruin a couple of teams Christmases?

For the Columbus game,,,, both teams will be on their 3rd game in 4 nights, so it's likely we will face their backup at that point. They will have played the Pens the night before.

Also unclear if we might end up using our back-up too though. Traditionally, Therrien has preferred to use Carey for the home game (which would be the first one against Minny). But on the other hand, Clb is a conference opponent and Montoya got shelled by them last time around. Personally, I would stick Montoya in against Minny and give Carey Clb, but who knows...

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1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

Also unclear if we might end up using our back-up too though. Traditionally, Therrien has preferred to use Carey for the home game (which would be the first one against Minny). But on the other hand, Clb is a conference opponent and Montoya got shelled by them last time around. Personally, I would stick Montoya in against Minny and give Carey Clb, but who knows...

That would be my choice also but appears that it will be Price for the home game. Who knows,,,, if he has an easy night, maybe MT plays him B2B with the break ahead.

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2 hours ago, H_T_L said:

That would be my choice also but appears that it will be Price for the home game. Who knows,,,, if he has an easy night, maybe MT plays him B2B with the break ahead.

I agree completely Columbus is a conference opponent and is a top scoring team so Price our best goaltender should be in against Columbus. Minnesota is a low scoring team that is also out of conference , this should be who Montoya plays. It also makes sense because Montoya hasn't played in a while so he should play the weaker offensive team. I know they like Price in home games but this almost feels like they're sheltering him a bit.

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28 minutes ago, CaptWelly said:

Well Babcock who a lot of fans wanted and the group for team Canada also thought the same thing so it isn't only Terrien.

It's definitely not only Therrien, I disliked and continue to dislike and feel sad about the trade but it's far from only our management team that would take Weber, at his age and contract over Subban at his age and contract. The hockey world has its mentality and a lot of people share it and PK doesn't fit into it for a lot of people. There may also be more to PK than we see, I acknowledge that but it feels like we focused on the wrong things to me. I'm not going to ever actively like the move, unless we win a Cup I guess. For right now, while I'd still argue we're worse off, Weber is playing really well, his possession numbers are better than I'd have guessed they'd be coming to Montreal and it's actually worked with him and Emelin which I never thought possible. For the present, I disliked the trade, for the future, I hated it. That hasn't changed. 

I know Therrien's an unpopular guy and I think we could and should do better in terms of a head coach but credit where credit is due, with some key injuries including one that seems like it should be pretty devastating, we're keeping our heads above water and actually not just getting outshot and relying on goaltending but actively playing well. Carey, TBH, hasn't even looked that great to me for a little while now.

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2 hours ago, Habs=stanleycup said:

This week's Hockey Inside Out show:

 

 

Not a fan of Laraque here. Carey/any player can shun the media any day of the week if they feel. I won't pretend that they have a responsibility to me as a fan to let me know how they feel about any subject at any given moment regardless of their state of mind. He regularly gives interviews, even after games when hes is righteously POed, so let this one go. To be honest, I wouldn't care if we had a player on our team that shunned the media at every opportunity if their contract would allow it. Guys like Pronger have to stay sane by taking the mickey out of their banal questions.

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Pacioretty did an interview with ESPN where he stated that things were going well and that he doesn't blame fans for certain perceptions but that they don't know what happens behind closed doors. He added that the Habs don't share much with the public and stated that to him, the opinions of his play that count are those of his coach, GM, and teammates. He also stated that his injury didn't play a big role and that he simply felt he should take on more of a defensive role with Galchenyuk and Radulov doing the heavy lifting on offence.

I don't know if this closed door business was an allusion to Subban or not, which is odd if it is, because Pacman has also stated publicly that he and Subban got along great and were friends and that he was never a distraction. So which is it? Was Subban traded because there are things we don't know about that justify it or did he get along fine with his teammates (as many of them have stated to the media)? It's one thing to say we keep things private, but we're obviously being kept away from the truth on something to do with the Habs room. Of note, the players and Therrien always told us there was great chemistry in the room until we started losing, even with Subban here. And even after that, Therrien kept reiterating how his players stuck together and played hard. Interviews like the Pacioretty one just make it all the more confusing and less transparent, to say there are things fans don't know about but then also say at the same time that there's nothing going on...

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