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2016-17 State of the Habs


BigTed3
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6 hours ago, H_T_L said:

Sabres did us a favour tonight. Beat the Sens 3-2

And as the Sens walked off it looked like the old adage had taken effect which is buy the rumor and sell the news.

I guess it matters less who is the right coach than who the other players think the right coach is which is pretty sad but totally forgivable

None of the team had to go through the VIetnam experience of waiting to see how they fared in moving day by day towards a war they didn't want to fight in, towards a war that took them away for the first time from a home and a country they wanted to build a culture in to build a culture or a free zone in a foreign land they.would have no stake in and I won't say that Julien doesn't have a stake in the future of Montreal but I can see how MT would think he would have been the better leader 30 years ago.

I supported MT and I am proud that I did but I also see how his time had run out.

Part of the VIetnam experience was learning how to live in the here and now. We'll see how I fare now that CJ is the coach. Thanks MT for the effort.

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We had 2 major problems a week ago.

1. we had a mediocre group of players

2. we had a coach who was absolutely horrible at deploying them 

Although problem 2 is now miraculously resolved, we still need help, and I hope our intrepid GM realizes this 

The black lining to this silver cloud, is that we made 2 significant....and based on what I have seen now over a solid chunk of the season, I am choosing the right word here, SIGNIFICANT downgrades on 2 very important players, all because we didnt fire our coach when it was painfully obvious that it was time to do so, and instead decided to indulge him. ( Can this please, PLEASE be the last time we do this)

 That stings particularly worse today, but in the end the damage has been done and the potential for the current group as is, is now something to be a lot more optimistic about

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7 hours ago, Regis22 said:

No idea who these 2 guys are but I kinda agree , HABS need more than a new coach to be a contender

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/2-minutes-for-instigating-the-habs-will-need-more-than-julien-to-be-a-contender~1057908

Good little piece. Hopefully MB will be able to acquire that key player for us.

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Well ... I think the good news is that we now have a total reset and there are NO MORE EXCUSES for Mr. Bergevin. This is now all totally on him as to how the remainder of this season unfolds. If this team does not go deep in the playoffs (ie reach conference finals) he should face the consequences of dismissal. Whether Molson actually enforces that is another matter for speculation ...

In the meantime ......   ALL ABOARD .......

GO HABS GO !!!!!!!!!!!!

 :6280:

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Here are my grades for the Habs at the 3/4 mark:

Goalies:

- Montoya: B... decent overall despite some ups and downs. Hasn't gotten much scoring support.

- Price: C+... had a great start but has been very average for 2 months

Defencemen:

- Petry: A-... overall still our best defenceman, despite some recent defensive struggles

- Markov: A-... his best season in maybe 5 years. Really shows how much Therrien's over-playing him hurt the past few years.

- Beaulieu: B... has improved over the year, especially on the PP as a set-up man.

- Emelin: B-... really solid start that has tapered off of late.

- Weber: C+... same as Emelin but even more pronounced. Was a beast on the PP to start the year but since then has, like Price, seen his game fall apart completely

- Pateryn: C+... doing his job.

- Nesterov: C-... pedestrian performances thus far.

- Johnston: F... not an NHLer.

Forwards:

- Pacioretty: A+... almost the inverse of rest of team, a weak start defensively that has rapidly turned into one of his best seasons ever.

- Radulov: A... great effort every night.

- Danault: A... playing well above expectations.

- Galchenyuk: B... was a top-tier player in the NHL, slowed down by injury but is showing signs of life offensively, needs help in his own zone.

- Lehkonen: B-... decent campaign for a rookie. Very mature player for his age.

- Byron: B-... another pleasant surprise, but falling back down

- McCarron: C+... plays to his own strengths, but needs to develop his offensive game more.

- Gallagher: C... effort remains there, but results have been lacking.

- Mitchell: C... a good 4th liner.

- Flynn: D... an average 4th liner.

- Plekanec: D... better now than a couple of months ago, but his worst season in a long time, maybe ever.

- Andrighetto: D... running out of chances.

- De La Rose: D-... probably run out of chances.

- Terry: D-... give the kids a shot over this guy.

- Shaw: F... what a trainwreck he has been this season. Everything good he does is followed by a boneheaded decision/play.

- Desharnais: F... not playing at an NHL level.

 

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State of the Habs: A heck of a lot of Question marks top to bottom! My top ten ;)

  1. Has Marc Bergevin really done anything the last 5 years to make the Habs better? Has he made them worse?
  2. Were Weber and Shaw really the answer?
  3. Would the team be better today with Subban, Eller and a few others that have been traded etc.?
  4. Does changing the Head coach change enough in terms of the coaching staff overall?
  5. Is the leadership of this team what it should be (management and players)?
  6. Have prospects and players been given a fair chance to show case their skill and strengths?
  7. Is player development above or below average?
  8. Are prospects and/or players better or worse than what we get to see?
  9. Will the system  be what it needs to be for the type of players on the team?
  10. Will deployment change anything?

 

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3 hours ago, Habs_Hockey_Nutz said:

State of the Habs: A heck of a lot of Question marks top to bottom! My top ten ;)

  1. Has Marc Bergevin really done anything the last 5 years to make the Habs better? Has he made them worse?
  2. Were Weber and Shaw really the answer?
  3. Would the team be better today with Subban, Eller and a few others that have been traded etc.?
  4. Does changing the Head coach change enough in terms of the coaching staff overall?
  5. Is the leadership of this team what it should be (management and players)?
  6. Have prospects and players been given a fair chance to show case their skill and strengths?
  7. Is player development above or below average?
  8. Are prospects and/or players better or worse than what we get to see?
  9. Will the system  be what it needs to be for the type of players on the team?
  10. Will deployment change anything?

 

Some very good questions HHN and I suspect most on your list would elicit fairly negative responses.

The task at hand for Claude Julien is daunting. Since going 13-1-1 through November 12th the team has played 44 games and gone 18-19-7 for 43 points which is roughly a 49% winning percentage. Some would argue that the latter winning percentage masks an even uglier result over the smaller sample size of the last 10 games where they are 2-7-1 for 5 of 20 points ..... an embarrassing 25% winning clip. I calculate that it will take 93 points minimum to make the playoffs in the eastern conference. If the team continues through their remaining 23 games producing a 49% winning percentage they will end up with ..... you guessed it!!!!    93 points

Can the team achieve even this modest level of success over their remaining schedule?

To borrow a phrase from our dearly departed coach Michel Terrible, from when he was coaching the Penguins into the ground; " I think their goal is to be the worst defensive team in hockey". I truly believe this applies to the Habs right now. Who taught them to play the game the way they are playing it right now? I watched that second goal by the Jets yesterday over and over and almost made myself sick. That is the one where Byfuglien was allowed to walk out in front through 3 Habs with one hand on the stick and feed it to Armia right in front of the net.  Now, Buf is a huge guy but he should have been flat on his back as he left himself totally exposed but instead of hammering him our 3 players parted ways and watched him go right by. Who plays like that????? This is not hockey ..... what is with these half hearted poke checks and flybys leaving the other team with 5 bell chances on our goal??? Jeebuzzz ..... it is sickening ..... did Terrible coach them this way or have we got a bunch of gutless players who are afraid to hit and be hit? And never mind the offensive zone ... no sense of compete or urgency ... just float around until someone takes the puck away from you and head back to the bench. Our power play is so bad Julien may want to consider declining future power play opportunities. I swear in yesterday's game when the Habs had the power play there were times when the Jets looked like THEY had the extra man.

My conclusion is that they will not generate the required 93 points and for the second straight year, these sad sacks will miss the playoffs. This will not be Julien's fault. We do not have the horses folks. I am afraid it is just that simple. Our defence is a shambles and there is not one guy back there that I would consider indespensible. I would only protect Weber in the expansion draft because it would be too embarrassing to lose him which would mean we actually gave Subban away for nothing. Offensively, the results speak for themselves. We do not have 6 legit top six forwards with the rest being marginal 4th line/AHL ham and eggers. I would consider only GallyA, GallyB, Patches, and Rads  as top 6 performers on a regular basis. This team is so bad that they managed to make the best goalie on the planet look sub par.

The good news? I think the big win is that missing the playoffs again will spell the end of Bergevin ... finally!!! He has no more excuses and is the reason we have such a dirth of talented players. Now ...  a new GM would have to accept CJ as his coach but I think most in the hockey world would consider Julien to be a top notch guy for the position. I would expect that most of the assistants will be purged in the offseason so Claude can have his own guys. Hopefully, with a decent 1st round draft pick we can begin to strengthen this roster.  

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I think the assesment that we need to "blow up the roster" is a bit melodramatic

 

We have a good defensive core ... Weber, Petry, Beaulieu, Markov, Emelin and Pateryn/Nesty I would rate a B+ or A-.   Sure we can argue Weber vs PK but as another poster said somewhere in these forums ... a lot of GMs would take Weber over PK ... I hate the trade, because I loved PK ... but for the short term I don't think it hurt us.

 

Forwards ... Patches, Galchenyuk, Radulov the human tank,  Gallgaher are all good top 6 players.   Plekenec could still rediscover his form.   McCarron is coming along, Byron is a speedy checker, Mitchel/Flynn are excellent 4th liners, Shaw is servicable as a 3rd line player, Danault the same .. and can even spot top 6 as needed ... 

And we have Price.    Nuff said.

I would say we are 1 player away ... one winger to round out the top 6, somebody who can light the light ... then you can have 2 strong Offensive lines

 

Patch - Galchenyuk - Radulov

???/Lehkonen - Danault - Gallagher/???

Byron - Plekenac - Shaw

Flynn - McCarron/?? - Mitchell

 

 

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I think the "D is average at best, not in a shambles but not A- or B+ grade. Weber is the only one I would  consider  a # 1 D man and rest IMO fall into the # 3 to # 6 category. 

We have 3 maybe 4 forwards who would be top six on any other team and rest IMO fall into the 3 rd  or 4 the liners .

Lately they haven't been able to get scoring from the so called top line and the rest of the guys cant do anything

I don't see that character and grit that MT and MB wanted so badly

I keep  hearing discussions about the Habs adding one elite top forward  which would put them in the contender category but other teams aren't giving them away and even if they were to nab such player, unless his name was Crosby ( or similar ) Im not sure it would  change much .

Remember through November 12th the team has played 44 games and gone 18-19-7 for 43 points which is roughly a 49% winning percentage.

The team stunk last year without CP, they've been average this year with CP, maybe they are an average hockey club , that relies on outstaning goaltending to be successful

 

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8 hours ago, Habs_Hockey_Nutz said:

State of the Habs: A heck of a lot of Question marks top to bottom! My top ten ;)

  1. Has Marc Bergevin really done anything the last 5 years to make the Habs better? Has he made them worse?
  2. Were Weber and Shaw really the answer?
  3. Would the team be better today with Subban, Eller and a few others that have been traded etc.?
  4. Does changing the Head coach change enough in terms of the coaching staff overall?
  5. Is the leadership of this team what it should be (management and players)?
  6. Have prospects and players been given a fair chance to show case their skill and strengths?
  7. Is player development above or below average?
  8. Are prospects and/or players better or worse than what we get to see?
  9. Will the system  be what it needs to be for the type of players on the team?
  10. Will deployment change anything?

 

1.,2 and 3.  Radulov, and trading weise for danault.  otherwise....some decent tinkering moves. gonchar for moen was good. weise for weber was good.  vanek was a nice rental, of course ruined by therrien.  the real answers come from 2 and 3, which is why i am answering all 3 together.

are shaw and weber the answer, NO. MAJOR disappointments, both.

would they be better with those 2? YES. watching shaw and eller head to head recently was just fury inducing for me. not only is eller clearly a better player, we are now trying to fill his hole with a guy like hanzal. having a big 2 way 3rd line centre is an ESSENTIAL on a cup wining team. we had a great one and blew it. we decided we'd be better off with pressbox DD and ineffective bonehead shaw. just horrible. 

subban used to create 5 scoring chances a game, and was amazing at clearing our zone and starting the play up ice. weber is a non factor as far as im concerned. ive given him over half a year to be as objective as possible and im still waiting to see where this elite label is justified. as far as im concerned his time has come and gone, i do not see it with him at all.  im willing to see what he can provide down the stretch or in the playoffs, but as far as im concerned this is going to shape up to be one of the worst trades in our teams history. 

4. time will tell. he is definitely better than therrien, and muller is a legit NHL guy. we need to get rid of some more dead weight like daigneault and lefebvre

5. no. patch is not a team leader and bergevin is lost in the mist

6.and 7. and 8.  id give ghetto more time with skill guys. i duno why hudon isnt being given a longer look. mac is back up ....we'll see what goes on going forward, our pospects are nothing special to me anyway so theres no big egregious passover happening

9. the systemcan only do so much. this team badly needs at least one more top 6 forward, and i think its really more like 2. we cant score. our forwards arent good. systems shmystems until that happens. 

10. yes. our better players need to play together and play the most minutes. this was just rocket science to coach T , but julien seems to be able to comprehend this concept. not having dd out there on the pp or wasting valuable minutes is the obvious analogy of the kind of ridiculous stuff happening under therrien.our corps isnt great, but it needs to be given the best chance to succeed for the team to win

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We've seen a lot of new young stars coming into the league in the past few years... McDavid in Edmonton, Matthews and Marner in Toronto, Laine and Ehlers and Scheifele in Winnipeg, Barkov and Huberdeau and Ekblad in Florida, Gaudreau and Monahan in Calgary, and so on... and of course, there are still players like Crosby and Ovechkin and Stamkos who put on a show. With Subban being gone now and with talk about the Habs either trading Galchenyuk now or before he's due a new contract in the summer, the question I'm asking is who you see in the Canadiens' organization who is "worth the price of admission"? In other words, which players based on their individual play alone would you pay to go and see and just be amazed by what they do in a game?

To me, guys like Subban, Kovalev, Koivu, Naslund, and Roy were guys who fell into that category. I even really liked Oleg Petrov based on skill alone and Sheldon Souray in his peak due to his shot and PP presence. Right now, I'd argue Galchenyuk is the guy with the most skill on the team, and the one guy whom you feel could make an incredible skill play at any moment. Radulov to a lesser extent fits into that category too, with maybe a little less puck skill but a little more hustle and physical dominance. Pacioretty and Weber and Petry and Gallagher are obviously all good players, but none of them are really bring-you-out-of-your-seat type players. And of course Price is a dominant goalie, but he's not really that flashy.

My concern remains that this team, even with Julien now, remains a team of mainly boring personalities with very little flash and pizzazz and low entertainment value unless they're shooting at 25% and scoring 5 goals a game. So I'll ask again, but who are the must-see players in your opinions? I'm simply worried that a roster that's already depleted of skill and entertainment value will be hit even harder if Galchenyuk gets traded and/or Radulov doesn't re-sign.

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31 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

  In other words, which players based on their individual play alone would you pay to go and see and just be amazed by what they do in a game?

No one on the current roster .

But ive heard good things about  Mikhail Sergachev 

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34 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

We've seen a lot of new young stars coming into the league in the past few years... McDavid in Edmonton, Matthews and Marner in Toronto, Laine and Ehlers and Scheifele in Winnipeg, Barkov and Huberdeau and Ekblad in Florida, Gaudreau and Monahan in Calgary, and so on... and

The Habs don't have any players that fall into that category

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2 hours ago, Regis22 said:

The Habs don't have any players that fall into that category

I agree ... on most nights this team is hard to watch ... even when they were winning low scoring games. Subban was the last one we had so naturally the foxhole got rid of him. GallyA comes close when he is playing well but would I go to a game because of him? Sad to contemplate when you think of the superstars of our glory years. I look at the Leafs now with envy for the exciting young players on their team. At least their fan base has something to go to the rink to see ....

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5 hours ago, eldag said:

I agree ... on most nights this team is hard to watch ... even when they were winning low scoring games. Subban was the last one we had so naturally the foxhole got rid of him. GallyA comes close when he is playing well but would I go to a game because of him? Sad to contemplate when you think of the superstars of our glory years. I look at the Leafs now with envy for the exciting young players on their team. At least their fan base has something to go to the rink to see ....

This.

Also MT`s fingerprint is still all over this team of grit & character. Lord knows how much skill CJ can salvage out of all of this. Basically he will have to rebuild his own staff plus acquire the players he might need to become stronger and more competitive.

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Better than some folks think on here! but not where they should be for sure. I get that folks are upset about Subban he was a great player one of the most exciting players to have played here since the 70's but in the end he is one player. what we are really missing is high end forwards, at least one center and a winger. Pleks should be on the third line Chucky on the first what we need is a solid second line center with some real offensive flair. a goal scoring winger or two even would help us a lot! I am not too worried about the goaltending or the defence now that Jullien is here I think those things will quickly fall into place but goal scoring and forward punch has been an issue for years.

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