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2016-17 State of the Habs


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Eller isn't a good winger, he or Plekanec would have to be moved along with Desharnais if we signed Stamkos. I also think we still need something on that first line. We have 2 snipers there but no real playmaker. I do like Chucky and Gally together and having a more balanced lineup though

Agreed that Eller is better at center. Ideally he's your #3C and you trade both Plekanec and Desharnais if you're able to bring in Stamkos. I'm just saying that worst-case scenario, the line-up with Stamkos is still better than what we have now, which would probably end up being similar but with DD or Pleky in the top 6. The only reason I'd put Stamkos with Pacman to begin with is because that's invariably going to be one of the things MB would have to promise to Stamkos to lure him here... to be able to play the 1C position and play with the best winger on the team.

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Guest Regis2

. The only reason I'd put Stamkos with Pacman to begin with is because that's invariably going to be one of the things MB would have to promise to Stamkos to lure him here... to be able to play the 1C position and play with the best winger on the team.

He can't promise him something that he can't keep, he's not the coach

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There's 3 players on Saint John that MTL may want to look at signing as free agents or drafting in Later rounds:

1. Matthew Highmore-LW-5'11, 179-65 GP 22,G-53,A-75,PTS-Highmore followed up a 2014 invitation to Habs development camp with a 24 point season in 2014-15. This year, he tripled his previous output with 75 points in 65 games leading all Seadogs; and posted 20 points in 17 playoff games before bowing out to Chicoutimi in the 3rd round. Good enough to make him worth a second look.

2. Sam Povorozniuk-C-5'11, 188-A free agent signing from the OHL, Povorozniuk exploded for 39 goals and 62 points. Obliterating any previous career highs in his 4 years on 3 different teams in the OHL. He also added 25 points in 17 playoff games, 14 of which were goals. Again, shattered any previous career high.

3. Nathan Noel-C-5'11, 172-Noel put up 57 points 61 games in 2015-16, including 21 goals. Noel added 13 points in 16 playoff games. Noel could be a solid later round draft pick for MTL.

3 scorers out of one of the CHL's top devlopers of talent.

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There's 3 players on Saint John that MTL may want to look at signing as free agents or drafting in Later rounds:

1. Matthew Highmore-LW-5'11, 179-65 GP 22,G-53,A-75,PTS-Highmore followed up a 2014 invitation to Habs development camp with a 24 point season in 2014-15. This year, he tripled his previous output with 75 points in 65 games leading all Seadogs; and posted 20 points in 17 playoff games before bowing out to Chicoutimi in the 3rd round. Good enough to make him worth a second look.

2. Sam Povorozniuk-C-5'11, 188-A free agent signing from the OHL, Povorozniuk exploded for 39 goals and 62 points. Obliterating any previous career highs in his 4 years on 3 different teams in the OHL. He also added 25 points in 17 playoff games, 14 of which were goals. Again, shattered any previous career high.

3. Nathan Noel-C-5'11, 172-Noel put up 57 points 61 games in 2015-16, including 21 goals. Noel added 13 points in 16 playoff games. Noel could be a solid later round draft pick for MTL.

3 scorers out of one of the CHL's top devlopers of talent.

Highmore

2016 - Unranked by CSS

2015 - Unranked by CSS

Not ranked by CSS for 2016, Ranked 155th in 2014 draft, unclaimed. Ranked

Povorozniouk - Not ranked by CSS for 2016,

Nathan Noel - Ranked 171st by CSS for 2016, Snubbed in 2015 draft after being Ranked 54 ... pass

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Won't let me edit my own post!

Highmore

2016 - Unranked by CSS

2015 - Unranked by CSS

2014 - Ranked 155th

Povorozniouk

2013-2016 Has never made the CSS rankings

Nathan Noel

2016 - Ranked 171 by CSS

2015 - Ranked 54 by CSS

I'll pass on all 3 as all of them are likely to be career AHLers at best

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Guest Regis2

Sounds like Montreal, yet we keep MT , 'cause his system works

http://www.tsn.ca/talent/flames-had-no-choice-but-to-fire-hartley-1.484006

If we charted Hartley’s coaching track record in the four years with Calgary, we would see that his teams were outchanced and outshot on a nightly basis.If we charted Hartley’s coaching track record in the four years with Calgary, we would see that his teams were outchanced and outshot on a nightly basis.

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Won't let me edit my own post!

Highmore

2016 - Unranked by CSS

2015 - Unranked by CSS

2014 - Ranked 155th

Povorozniouk

2013-2016 Has never made the CSS rankings

Nathan Noel

2016 - Ranked 171 by CSS

2015 - Ranked 54 by CSS

I'll pass on all 3 as all of them are likely to be career AHLers at best

Nothing ventured, nothing gained...2 of those guys you could sign to free agent entry-level deals, this year. Noel is a 7th rounder for you. You're giving up 1 draft pick for 3 prospects.

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Sounds like Montreal, yet we keep MT , 'cause his system works

http://www.tsn.ca/talent/flames-had-no-choice-but-to-fire-hartley-1.484006

If we charted Hartley’s coaching track record in the four years with Calgary, we would see that his teams were outchanced and outshot on a nightly basis.If we charted Hartley’s coaching track record in the four years with Calgary, we would see that his teams were outchanced and outshot on a nightly basis.

While I agree that the coach is u;timate;y responsible for the teams performance, I think Calgary totally overachieved under his tenure with the Flames. They have developed a good young defensive core and have some very young high end forwards like the Oilers. But goaltending and depth are non-existent and any coach would have trouble fixing that. Hot goaltending was the key last year. A few injuries and this fragile group will struggle and they did.

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While I agree that the coach is u;timate;y responsible for the teams performance, I think Calgary totally overachieved under his tenure with the Flames. They have developed a good young defensive core and have some very young high end forwards like the Oilers. But goaltending and depth are non-existent and any coach would have trouble fixing that. Hot goaltending was the key last year. A few injuries and this fragile group will struggle and they did.

Calgary completely over-achieved with Hartley two seasons ago. This year, they cam crashing back down a bit. They have a very average roster but they also did very little with that roster. The over-achievement two seasons ago was due in large part to luck, as they had awful possession statistics that predicted they would come crashing back down, akin to what happened to the Leafs a few years ago and the Avs three years ago, and the Habs as well. It is pretty clear that coaches like Hartley, Roy, Carlyle, and Therrien just can't get the job done. Their success isn't sustainable. It's been proven time and again. The only difference is that the Leafs figured it out. The Flames figured it out. Bergevin has not.

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I think the habs are in pretty good shape. it looks like we saw Chucky establish himself, Patches will hopefully not get hurt this offseason and hit the ice flying this year. I also think the hell he went through last year will make him better at being captain this year. Price well if he is back at 100% the whole team will look better too! sure we have some big issues, coaching is one for sure one has to feel the players now run the show with all that happened and has been written about MT. or top 6 is not balanced we have way too many bottom six guy's and centers! but our D should be ok with Petry coming back healthy and some of the young guns looked good last year, not 100% but promising. will be interesting to see what happens with our pick if we keep it or trade up or down to get someone special. and if we could get a good winger or two. I know a lot of folks want the coach gone as do I, he has worn out his welcome and it is time to get a fresh face in there without some of the prejudice that he has towards some of our talent guy's but I feel we will still do ok in spite of him.

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^^

With Therrien and a healthy Price/Subban/Pacman/etc., I can see this team finishing 1st or 2nd in the division and making the 2nd round of the playoffs. It's completely feasible. But it won't be because of the coach. It will be in spite of the coach.

With someone like Julien, Babcock, or so on and exactly the same roster, I could see this team challenging for a Cup.

With Therrien and any sort of injuries to key players, we'll miss the playoffs again.

With a better coach, even if we lose Price or Subban or so on for a month or two or three, I could still see this team competing for a playoff spot and ultimately still make noise in the playoffs if they got healthy at the right time.

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I agree with that,MT had a chance to take his coaching to the next level he didn't it is a shame he is staying but it is what it is. i am not sure why MB is sticking with him he has got to know that most teams that slump as much as we did pretty much never come back without some solid changes. what lost me in the end was once the season was lost we did not play the prospects in key positions enough, it was like he was still trying to win games instead of evaluating the talent pool. this is a massive risk MB is taking. it is one thing to take it slow and build through the draft but you have to use the right players in the positions they were intended, if the coach won't do it even when the season is lost he has lost perspective.

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I agree with that,MT had a chance to take his coaching to the next level he didn't it is a shame he is staying but it is what it is. i am not sure why MB is sticking with him he has got to know that most teams that slump as much as we did pretty much never come back without some solid changes. what lost me in the end was once the season was lost we did not play the prospects in key positions enough, it was like he was still trying to win games instead of evaluating the talent pool. this is a massive risk MB is taking. it is one thing to take it slow and build through the draft but you have to use the right players in the positions they were intended, if the coach won't do it even when the season is lost he has lost perspective.

I agree with everything you're saying here. It's like, I'm not really sure what Bergevin's plan is. He says that it's hard to make a worthwhile trade for an impact player and that you waste too much money trying to get one as a free agent - and that's all probably true. And so he says that the best way is to build through the draft - again, probably true. But then why is our coach playing career fourth liners ahead of our prospects? How can we expect anyone to make a valuable contribution as a star if they're not given the chance to try (even if they might fail at first)? Especially when our chance for the post-season was already sunk?

It's like he's saying one thing and then doing... well, nothing.

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'Habs’ GM Marc Bergevin has already said that he’ll stick with his coaching staff to start the 2016-17 season. Many of the team’s fans were up in arms about this decision, but there isn’t much that they can do. Bergevin hasn’t put the blame on his coaching staff yet, but he has acknowledged that the team needs to improve. This summer will present prime opportunities for Bergevin to improve his team and help protect his coach. Whether it’s a trade at the draft, a big offseason signing, or a combination of the two, Bergevin will look to bring in offensive help. He is known for being very hesitant to make big trades, as he often feels that prices are far too high. Though he may be right in some instances, Bergevin should take advantage of the players that he currently has under contract, and he should look to add a few more to the team’s core.

OK, so… what if GM Bergevin doesn’t do anything this summer? The Habs’ GM almost has to do something this summer. It doesn’t have to be a blockbuster trade, but it has to be something that improves the offensive outlook of his team. The Habs are simply too thin offensively, and that should and could be addressed this summer. If it isn’t, well, there’d better be a good explanation. One thing that is a guarantee is that Price will be back in net to start next season. The team next year will automatically be better than the team this year just with that.'

http://thehockeywriters.com/the-montreal-canadiens-can-bounce-back-in-2016-17/

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In my opinion there is little to no reason to think Bergevin will do anything to improve the team and in fact, I am terrified of what he will probably do to further ruin this team's future. Whatever moves he does make to bring in new players does not change the fact that they will be coached by perhaps the worst coach in the NHL, and so there is very little hope for dramatic improvement. Therrien knows MB has his back no matter what and so in order for us to be rid of MT, MB must be fired as well. Molson does not have the wherewithal to make this decision. Our core players are being wasted. Players like GallyA are being stunted in their development and what really galls me is that this is a well known and discussed fact across the league. I would have more hope as a fan of the hated Leafs for next season than I have for this once proud team. Molson has committed big $$$$ to Bergevin and Therrien and for that reason, neither are going anywhere. I will spend more time next season watching my home town Flames than I will the Habs until MB and MT are gone! For previously stated reasons, I do not hold out much hope ...

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The concern is that Bergevin is going to panic when he can't make any significant moves and then he'll do something he regrets, like trading Subban or Galchenyuk or signing a free agent we don't need for way too much money and term. Bergevin can't be trusted at this point, given his weak judgment towards his coaching staff.

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The concern is that Bergevin is going to panic when he can't make any significant moves and then he'll do something he regrets, like trading Subban or Galchenyuk or signing a free agent we don't need for way too much money and term. Bergevin can't be trusted at this point, given his weak judgment towards his coaching staff.

THIS...for certain.

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'So, either Therrien adapts this time around and becomes the head coach of this new NHL Habs fans deserve or the team struggles and he’s shown the door soon after struggling out of the gate. Those are two very realistic possibilities. Well, one realistic possibility and one for which to hope. You can decide which is which.'

http://thehockeywriters.com/3-ways-montreal-canadiens-should-be-better-in-2016-17/

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Bargain bin bergy has tied himself to his coach. Therrien will not get fired if the habs struggle to start the season, he will not be fired if we struggle all season, he will not be fired if we miss the playoffs.

This is a two headed monster of incompetence, not one. The GM showed us the truth at that end of the year presser. He is miles from reality, lost in the mists of delusion, hiding in a foxhole with his best buddy, and that is the way its gonna be until the bitter end.

Therrien is our coach until Molson loses enough money that he fires everyone.

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Bargain bin bergy has tied himself to his coach. Therrien will not get fired if the habs struggle to start the season, he will not be fired if we struggle all season, he will not be fired if we miss the playoffs.

This is a two headed monster of incompetence, not one. The GM showed us the truth at that end of the year presser. He is miles from reality, lost in the mists of delusion, hiding in a foxhole with his best buddy, and that is the way its gonna be until the bitter end.

Therrien is our coach until Molson loses enough money that he fires everyone.

This to the part in bold. We are most definitely dealing with a 2 headed monster of incompetence. Bergevin by his own admission says: "Trades are hard." Which is total road apples because Toronto has moved what was once considered 3 unmovable contracts (Phaneuf, Kessel, Clarkson). What this team needs is a GM that has the creativity and assertiveness to make deals of the same ilk happen.

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This to the part in bold. We are most definitely dealing with a 2 headed monster of incompetence. Bergevin by his own admission says: "Trades are hard." Which is total road apples because Toronto has moved what was once considered 3 unmovable contracts (Phaneuf, Kessel, Clarkson). What this team needs is a GM that has the creativity and assertiveness to make deals of the same ilk happen.

Sure trades are hard. That's what separates the wheat from the chaff: A good GM with 'no excuses'.

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I think the state of the Habs can be summed up by one quote from Charles Hudon:

" I didn't think I was playing tonight because I didn't see my name on the 4th line."

All paraphrasing aside, that one quote epitomizes the current state of the Habs. A state which can be summed up in one word: Backwards. The current administration sees nothing wrong with giving bottom six grinders first line minutes, while forcing skilled prospects to toil and waste there efforts playing bottom six minutes.

Just because Dale Weise was half jokingly nicknamed: "The Dutch Gretzky"; playing in a lower tier, semi pro league; does not mean you give him Gretzky minutes.

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  • 2 weeks later...

So the Habs use the excuse that last season was a write-off because we didn't have the best goalie in the World, and you just can't win without an All-World goalie. It makes it even harder to buy that garbage though when you look at the teams who had success in this year's playoffs:

- SJ is riding Martin Jones, a 26-year old playing as a starter for the first time in his career. Prior to this season, he had only 34 games of NHL experience.

- Pit lost its starter and went with two rookies, first Jeff Zatkoff and then more significantly Matt Murray. Matt Murray had never played an NHL game before this year, got into only 13 regular season games (where he went 9-2), and has now rocked 11 wins in the playoffs.

- Tampa lost Ben Bishop and despite having a goalie with only 16 games of NHL experience prior to this season, they fared reasonably well without him. Vasilevskiy put up very good numbers and kept his team afloat.

- And the Blues went with a combination of Jake Allen and Brian Elliot, neither of whom I would consider to be a solid #1 option. They have two good goalie, but no one who is going to steal you wins and be season-altering.

All that to say that these are 4 perfect examples of teams that have done well without star goalies and who have dealt with injuries and overcome them. It really makes the Habs' excuses look even weaker to see this happening.

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