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2016-17 Habs Lines


BigTed3
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1 hour ago, Habberwacky said:

That Dannault line is making a very good argument for being left alone.

It should be. I think Lehkonen can eventually be a top 6 player, but he's going to find the going a little easier in his current role for now and that will help his confidence. Danault has really exceeded all expectations this year and he's showed he can be a 3rd line player. Shaw had a really rough start but has shown much better composure in the past 3 weeks. I like the trio, and it's probably the best 3rd line we've had in a long while. I liked Sekac-Eller as a duo, but they weren't given an adequate 3rd linemate nor were they given decent chances to succeed. And Fleisch-DD-Weise produced well, but it wasn't sustainable and they couldn't play defence. This current 3rd line can play in any situation. As I said, if Plekanec can keep it going, then he's freed up to play the 2nd line by this current 3rd line. All that's missing now is a 2nd line LW, and that's easier to find than a top 6 center.

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2 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

It should be. I think Lehkonen can eventually be a top 6 player, but he's going to find the going a little easier in his current role for now and that will help his confidence. Danault has really exceeded all expectations this year and he's showed he can be a 3rd line player. Shaw had a really rough start but has shown much better composure in the past 3 weeks. I like the trio, and it's probably the best 3rd line we've had in a long while. I liked Sekac-Eller as a duo, but they weren't given an adequate 3rd linemate nor were they given decent chances to succeed. And Fleisch-DD-Weise produced well, but it wasn't sustainable and they couldn't play defence. This current 3rd line can play in any situation. As I said, if Plekanec can keep it going, then he's freed up to play the 2nd line by this current 3rd line. All that's missing now is a 2nd line LW, and that's easier to find than a top 6 center.

If the current center situation is satisfactory (minus Galchenyuk and Desharnais) then the Habs already have an exceptional left-winger on the mend... Alex Galchenyuk can play left-wing. As a matter of fact I, personally, still believe he would be a better left-winger than a center.

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28 minutes ago, Habs_Hockey_Nutz said:

If the current center situation is satisfactory (minus Galchenyuk and Desharnais) then the Habs already have an exceptional left-winger on the mend... Alex Galchenyuk can play left-wing. As a matter of fact I, personally, still believe he would be a better left-winger than a center.

No, I'm saying the center position if you go Galchenyuk-Plekanec-Danault-Mitchell is acceptable. But that's based on 1. Danault stepping into that 3C role and 2. Plekanec playing closer to where he was 2-3 years ago and not what we've seen the past 12 months. it's not fantastic, but it's acceptable. If you meld that with Pacman, Radulov, and Gallagher as top 6 wingers and Lehkonen and Shaw on your 3rd line, then all those players are in appropriate roles. We're simply missing a 2nd line LW. That's still an easier thing to replace than using a 3rd line of Danault-Plekanec-Shaw and then needing a 2C to fill in between Lehkonen and Gallagher. A LW typically has less responsibility than a C, so it's easier to ask a young guy like Hudon or McCarron or Scherbak to try to make that jump, and it's also easier to find a winger via trade then a top 6 center.

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1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

No, I'm saying the center position if you go Galchenyuk-Plekanec-Danault-Mitchell is acceptable. But that's based on 1. Danault stepping into that 3C role and 2. Plekanec playing closer to where he was 2-3 years ago and not what we've seen the past 12 months. it's not fantastic, but it's acceptable. If you meld that with Pacman, Radulov, and Gallagher as top 6 wingers and Lehkonen and Shaw on your 3rd line, then all those players are in appropriate roles. We're simply missing a 2nd line LW. That's still an easier thing to replace than using a 3rd line of Danault-Plekanec-Shaw and then needing a 2C to fill in between Lehkonen and Gallagher. A LW typically has less responsibility than a C, so it's easier to ask a young guy like Hudon or McCarron or Scherbak to try to make that jump, and it's also easier to find a winger via trade then a top 6 center.

Oh I got what you were inferring. But I said, "If the current center situation is satisfactory (minus Galchenyuk and Desharnais)"... you may disagree, but I look at thing s differently. As a matter of fact there are some things that have me leaning this way.

1. I consider, (regardless of the points Galchenyuk has accumulated before injury) that it is Radulov's play and presence that drives the first line. Not Galchenyuk's play at center (which has not been that great IMO)

2. Forcing the issue of Galchenyuk playing 1st line center has an impact throughout the line-up causing a dynamic similar to Desharnais in the line-up period.

3. The Habs have a number of options at center as we have witnessed since the injuries hit. Plekanec, Danault, Mitchell and Flynn bring a different dynamic. And with McCarron possible too (or even Hudon for that matter) the center position is quite good IMO.

4. Galchenyuk had very good progressive results playing the wing before (the problem was the limit on ice-time set by Therrien). Playing wing, as you state, does not require as much responsibility as center does, thereby allowing Galchenyuk greater freedom to exploit his talents. Imagine two lines with two very good left-wings in Pacioretty and Galchenyuk both with dynamite shots.

5. There will be quite a window (up to 12 weeks) to see just how good the team can be at center with the current players available. If it does work then why change it?

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1 hour ago, Habs_Hockey_Nutz said:

Oh I got what you were inferring. But I said, "If the current center situation is satisfactory (minus Galchenyuk and Desharnais)"... you may disagree, but I look at thing s differently. As a matter of fact there are some things that have me leaning this way.

1. I consider, (regardless of the points Galchenyuk has accumulated before injury) that it is Radulov's play and presence that drives the first line. Not Galchenyuk's play at center (which has not been that great IMO)

2. Forcing the issue of Galchenyuk playing 1st line center has an impact throughout the line-up causing a dynamic similar to Desharnais in the line-up period.

3. The Habs have a number of options at center as we have witnessed since the injuries hit. Plekanec, Danault, Mitchell and Flynn bring a different dynamic. And with McCarron possible too (or even Hudon for that matter) the center position is quite good IMO.

4. Galchenyuk had very good progressive results playing the wing before (the problem was the limit on ice-time set by Therrien). Playing wing, as you state, does not require as much responsibility as center does, thereby allowing Galchenyuk greater freedom to exploit his talents. Imagine two lines with two very good left-wings in Pacioretty and Galchenyuk both with dynamite shots.

5. There will be quite a window (up to 12 weeks) to see just how good the team can be at center with the current players available. If it does work then why change it?

I tend to agree if one of the other players turns out to be better at face-offs which is important also. I agree that as good offensively Chucky has been he hasn't been great defensively which in todays NHL you need a true #1 center to be.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Assuming MB is not working on a big trade to bring in a guy like RNH, I have a feeling, once everyone is healthy, we'll see a lineup like this:

Pacioretty - Galchenyuk - Radulov
Lekhonen - Danault - Gallagher
DD - Plekanec - Shaw
(insert young player here) - Mitchell - Flynn

 

I think Danault may have jumped over Plekanec in our depth charts - or at least in MT's eyes. 

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6 hours ago, maas_art said:

Assuming MB is not working on a big trade to bring in a guy like RNH, I have a feeling, once everyone is healthy, we'll see a lineup like this:

Pacioretty - Galchenyuk - Radulov
Lekhonen - Danault - Gallagher
DD - Plekanec - Shaw
(insert young player here) - Mitchell - Flynn

 

I think Danault may have jumped over Plekanec in our depth charts - or at least in MT's eyes. 

I think everyone has jumped over Plekanec. You have Galchenyuk and Desharnais go down and really only have one guy left on the roster with experience as a top 6 center. So where is he? Playing the third line, while Danault and Mitchell leapfrog him on the depth chart. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing McCarron given a shot as well. He's been pretty decent in the bottom 6, and he provides an element we don't have from anyone else. Something like

Lehkonen-Galchenyuk-Radulov

Pacioretty-McCarron-Gallagher

Danault-Plekanec-Shaw

Byron-Mitchell-Carr

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35 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

So if Byron and Gallagher can't go next game and Shaw is still out...

Pacioretty-Plekanec-Radulov

Lehkonen-Danault-McCarron

Carr-Mitchell-Flynn

Ghetto-Scherbak-Terry

 

OUCH.

 

MT said that Gally won't be going to TO.

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5 hours ago, PuckPundit said:

A seriously banged up squad now.  If no more AHL help is forthcoming, will it finally force MB to make a trade?  

Maybe - but unless we send picks/prospects  - or an injured player - we're still going to be adding a player(s) and moving another(s) off the roster. 

I could see him picking a guy off waivers or maybe trading a mid level pick for a soon-to-be UFA. There arent many teams out of the playoff race though so it would be tough to pry away a player for picks at this point.  You could most likely get a washed up vet from a struggling team (Iginla, Gionta, Vanek or Jagr) but i dont know if thay would help much more than just bringing up a guy like Scherbek etc.

I think he would be hard pressed to make a good "hockey trade" at this point though - too many players on our IR for him to be able to play with much.

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Today's lines....

Pacioretty - Danault - Radulov
Andrighetto - Plekanec - Lehkonen
Carr - Mitchell - Flynn
Scherbak - McCarron - Farnham 

Emelin - Weber
Beaulieu - Petry
Johnston - Barberio

I think i'd like to see what Scherbak can do on that 2nd line. We already know what Ghetto can do. Looks like MT is really going to play it safe. 

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1 hour ago, H_T_L said:

Today's lines....

Pacioretty - Danault - Radulov
Andrighetto - Plekanec - Lehkonen
Carr - Mitchell - Flynn
Scherbak - McCarron - Farnham 

Emelin - Weber
Beaulieu - Petry
Johnston - Barberio

I think i'd like to see what Scherbak can do on that 2nd line. We already know what Ghetto can do. Looks like MT is really going to play it safe. 

6 Players from the farm? :wacko:

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5 hours ago, H_T_L said:

I think i'd like to see what Scherbak can do on that 2nd line. We already know what Ghetto can do. Looks like MT is really going to play it safe. 

Totally agree.  Scherbak is an unknown. He's had a good start to the year & he still projects as a 2nd liner.  We have two of our best defensive forwards on that line already so why not give Scherbak a chance?   Also he's a RW so by putting him on the 4th line you have him played his off wing (albeit he shoots left) and have Lehkonen playing RW (his off wing).  Move Scherbak to #2RW, Lehkonen #2LW and Andrighetto #4 LW and you have all 3 guys playing their preferred positions. 

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With Scherbak and Farnham going back down, speculation that Galchenyuk and Shaw could both be back in next game. Interesting scenario once everyone is healthy... do you continue to use Danault on the top line and spread the skill out over several trios? Or do you reunite Galchenyuk with the top two wingers and frontload the talent? Personally I'd start with

Lehkonen-Galchenyuk-Gallagher

Pacioretty-Danault-Radulov

Byron-Plekanec-Shaw

Carr-Mitchell-McCarron

Flynn would be the 13th attacker, Terry and Ghetto would go back down, and DD would be released or traded.

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2 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

With Scherbak and Farnham going back down, speculation that Galchenyuk and Shaw could both be back in next game. Interesting scenario once everyone is healthy... do you continue to use Danault on the top line and spread the skill out over several trios? Or do you reunite Galchenyuk with the top two wingers and frontload the talent? Personally I'd start with

Lehkonen-Galchenyuk-Gallagher

Pacioretty-Danault-Radulov

Byron-Plekanec-Shaw

Carr-Mitchell-McCarron

Flynn would be the 13th attacker, Terry and Ghetto would go back down, and DD would be released or traded.

This would give a good balance I agree. I do like the idea of just switching Chucky and Danault though. I liked the dynamics of Rad and Chucky and now with Pacs playing full speed again this line could be dangerous!

 

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1 hour ago, CaptWelly said:

This would give a good balance I agree. I do like the idea of just switching Chucky and Danault though. I liked the dynamics of Rad and Chucky and now with Pacs playing full speed again this line could be dangerous!

 

I'm fine with that too. I mean any combination of those top 6 guys in the top 6 works to some degree. I liked Lehkonen with Danault (and Shaw), and I liked Radulov with Galchenyuk, so those duos work too, but I wonder if we have the depth to allow for putting our three best forwards together and then asking Lehk-Dan-Gallagher/Shaw to be a 2nd line.

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16 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

I'm fine with that too. I mean any combination of those top 6 guys in the top 6 works to some degree. I liked Lehkonen with Danault (and Shaw), and I liked Radulov with Galchenyuk, so those duos work too, but I wonder if we have the depth to allow for putting our three best forwards together and then asking Lehk-Dan-Gallagher/Shaw to be a 2nd line.

True enough, I will say it's nice to see that we actually have the depth to put together a decent looking top 9 now, (with everyone healthy) and still have a reasonable 4 line too.

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3 hours ago, Regis22 said:

I actually dont have a problem with this - he's not game-pace ready yet clearly.  What i have an issue with is that MT didnt figure this out right away. Sure he scored game one but he looked out of sorts.  He should have been on the 3rd line to begin with & then, as he adjusted to 10, 12, 15, minutes a game, moved up to the first line.  Now it looks like a demotion when it fact its not. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

So if im Marc Bergevin, I am looking at my roster approaching trade deadline & thinking about the holes.  Right now we're looking better across the roster than we have in quite some time but we still need to fix some areas.

Here is how i would evaluate our roster (assuming everyone is healthy):

Pacioretty - Galchenyuk - Radulov    - The best 1st line we've had since the early 90s.  No complaints whatsoever with this trio
Lehkonen - Danault - Gallagher    -  A bone fide #2 line.   Its still a relatively small sample size for Danault and Lehks but I think both are pretty safe bets
Byron - Plekanec - Shaw  - Plekanec is not great value anymore (deal with him this summer) but for now he still provides great defensive ability on the 3rd
Carr - Mitchell - Flynn - McCarron - Scherbek - Take your pick, we have no problems putting together a decent 4th line. 

_________ - Weber   - To me, this is our #1 biggest hole.  I love how well Emelin has played this year but I do not think he's a 1st pairing guy. 
Beaulieu - Petry - A really solid second pairing.  No complaints. In many ways they are 1b in how they are used. 
Markov - Nesterov  - Very solid 3rd pairing. We also have plenty of guys (Pateryn, Barberio, Redmond etc) who can step in if need be. Markov is still a PP beast.

 

So on paper our roster actually looks pretty good.  That #2 dman position still scares me though. I am pretty sure MB and MT are planning on going into the post season with Emelin in it & I dont think thats the right play.   The problem is, who can we realistically get to fill it?   Can one of our guys (Beau?) move up & fill it? Or do we trade someone? If so, who?  We have a nice balance across the roster.    A few things I wouldnt be opposed to trying:

- Acquire a #2 centre, move Danault to third.   This would most likely require moving a defensman so we may end up weakening our back end but it may be worth it.  If you got say, RNH for Emelin  / DD / 1st  you would have a much stronger centre group (although I am confortable with what we have now) but will our d-group be weakened?

- Acquire a #2 defensman.  Presumably Emelin would go the other way because i think he'd actually perform worse on any of the other pairings but you'd have to include something special to get that guy. Sergachev for example.  Not sure i would be down for that.  Maybe there's an UFA out there. Shattenkirk would be ideal if he wasnt a RH shot.  

- Acquire another top 4 dman and hope that between them someone can fill that #2 spot.  Karl Alzner is a name that intrigues me. He's probably not a top pairing guy but between him, Beau and Markov (Swapping around at PP, PK, 5-on-5 maybe there's a fit.  He's UFA this summer so he would probably cost nowhere near as much as a true #2, although the caps may choose to keep him for their run. 

Will be an interesting next few weeks. I dont expect MB to be idle. He's got the best roster hes' had so far so it will be interesting to see if he can improve on it before the P/Os.  Most likely he adds some spare parts (I could see Iginla or Jagr getting thrown into the mix) but you never know, a big move is certainly still possible. 

 

 

 

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The D pairings aren't working. Emelin has played well, but he and Weber don't move the puck well. Petry and Beaulieu has been a tire-fire on many nights defensively. I think it's time to give Beaulieu another go with Weber and see if that helps the puck movement up ice. Markov-Petry played really well together, so I'd try that again. And I personally like Pateryn more than Nesterov. So I'd have

Beau-Weber

Markov-Petry

Emelin-Pateryn

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