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2016-17 Habs Lines


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Beaulieu-Weber could possibly work if Beaulieu takes a reasonable (but not impossible) leap, and even then he's going to run into the same problems Subban had with Markov because Weber's not going to match Beaulieu's skating. It won't be quite as brutal, but it'll still happen. I think you're being a bit generous, though, if you think it'll only take a few weeks of failure from Markov-Weber for Therrien to break it up. Short leash or not, he just does not understand modern hockey. Their failure will be everyone else's fault. Woe to us all if Galchenyuk is on the ice when it happens. I think there's a better chance he gets fired before he changes the pair, and I doubt Bergevin fires him anyway. I think it's much more likely we end up seeing Emelin and Weber together for long stretches of time "to bring a physical presence" or some similar nonsense.

Oh, and you know Weber's reputation of "playing big minutes"? Michel Therrien, as a reminder, is the coach who played a nearly 37 year old Andrei Markov ~25+ minutes six times last October, and 23 times in the last two months of the season after it was obvious we weren't making the playoffs. Imagine how much he'll play him now.

Nothing about Michel Therrien's second stint here should make anyone believe that David Desharnais will stay in the bottom 6 for more than a half dozen or so games. Therrien has consistently elevated him time and again even though it's obvious to essentially every other living entity on earth that Desharnais doesn't belong in an NHL scoring role. Carr-Desharnais-Gallagher sounds pretty realistic as a second line to me. I suppose it could be worse. Which sets up Shaw-Plekanec-Whoever as the third line. I wouldn't be surprised if Danault gets put there and Mitchell-Flynn-Byron happens.

We'll probably sign Douglas Murray in the next few days and he can play with Weber for a "GRIT" pairing :P

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Beaulieu-Weber could possibly work if Beaulieu takes a reasonable (but not impossible) leap, and even then he's going to run into the same problems Subban had with Markov because Weber's not going to match Beaulieu's skating. It won't be quite as brutal, but it'll still happen. I think you're being a bit generous, though, if you think it'll only take a few weeks of failure from Markov-Weber for Therrien to break it up. Short leash or not, he just does not understand modern hockey. Their failure will be everyone else's fault. Woe to us all if Galchenyuk is on the ice when it happens. I think there's a better chance he gets fired before he changes the pair, and I doubt Bergevin fires him anyway. I think it's much more likely we end up seeing Emelin and Weber together for long stretches of time "to bring a physical presence" or some similar nonsense.

Weber is still a decent skater - especially for his size. He's positionally very strong and he tends to make much better reads than Markov when he's caught (as in, he'll get anticipate where he needs to be & get there). His vision is one of the things that make him an elite defensman still (he really is - he's just not as good as PK but he;s ours now so what can you do?) I dont think the comparison is fair - at least not for a couple of years - although he will most likely slow down, yes. What we lose in PK's speed and creativity may be mitigated by the fact that Weber's game is easier for his partner to understand and i think that will work very well for Beaulieu.

As for Therrien's misunderstanding of modern hockey... im hoping the addition of Muller will help greatly in that regard.

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Weber is still a decent skater - especially for his size. He's positionally very strong and he tends to make much better reads than Markov when he's caught (as in, he'll get anticipate where he needs to be & get there). His vision is one of the things that make him an elite defensman still (he really is - he's just not as good as PK but he;s ours now so what can you do?) I dont think the comparison is fair - at least not for a couple of years - although he will most likely slow down, yes. What we lose in PK's speed and creativity may be mitigated by the fact that Weber's game is easier for his partner to understand and i think that will work very well for Beaulieu.

As for Therrien's misunderstanding of modern hockey... im hoping the addition of Muller will help greatly in that regard.

Weber is pretty darn slow ... seen him a couple of times live in the last 2 years against Oilers.

And the trade is just brutal ... Weber is good, really good ... I won't say he's the 2nd best dman in the league like some, he's top 20 still ... it would just be easier to swallow if it wasn't a 1 for 1 given all the factors ... the numbers show that Subban is the better player at this point in their respective careers.

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Weber is still a decent skater - especially for his size. He's positionally very strong and he tends to make much better reads than Markov when he's caught (as in, he'll get anticipate where he needs to be & get there). His vision is one of the things that make him an elite defensman still (he really is - he's just not as good as PK but he;s ours now so what can you do?) I dont think the comparison is fair - at least not for a couple of years - although he will most likely slow down, yes. What we lose in PK's speed and creativity may be mitigated by the fact that Weber's game is easier for his partner to understand and i think that will work very well for Beaulieu.

Oh, I have no doubt Weber will be able to keep up with Beaulieu when it comes to making plays in the offensive zone once they're both there. That said, he may read plays quite well, but it's not going to will him to respond when it's physically impossible.

Subban plays the puck better, and just straight up plays the puck more than Weber. A huge hole has been cut in the roster, and only luck is going to fill it at this point. Defence-driven scoring will likely nosedive, and we're going to spend even more time in the defensive zone. Maybe it doesn't result in an immediate leap in goals against rates thanks to a (hopefully) fresh Carey Price, but close games are going to feel a lot less close. And there's going to be pressure to get offence going. If people thought Subban pinching was brutal, they're going to have another thing coming.

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Oh, I have no doubt Weber will be able to keep up with Beaulieu when it comes to making plays in the offensive zone. He may read plays quite well, but it's not going to will him to respond when it's physically impossible.

Subban plays the puck better, and just straight up plays the puck more than Weber. A huge hole has been cut in the roster, and only luck is going to fill it at this point. Defence-driven scoring will likely nosedive, and we're going to spend even more time in the defensive zone. Maybe it doesn't result in an immediate leap in goals against rates thanks to a (hopefully) fresh Carey Price, but close games are going to feel a lot less close. And there's going to be pressure to get offence going. If people thought Subban pinching was brutal, they're going to have another thing coming.

Yeah ... the comparison of puck touches between Subban and Weber was surprising. If MT plays Weber - Markov I picture them being trapped in the zone forever.

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Guest habs1952

Yeah it does. It depends how the rookies do of course, but I'm pretty high on them. Also Gallagher is on the second line so even without a good left winger he'll drive the play. That fourth line is a good defensive line that can free up easier minutes for the others. I think people's standards are too high, go look at other rosters this is better than most.

Look, I'm no Therrien fan but after the way last season ended not even he is dumb enough to take Galchenyuk off the first line.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

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Therrien stated a few weeks ago that he would go into the season with Pacioretty-Galchenyuk-Gallagher as his top line again. At his presser today, Marc Bergevin stated Radulov wanted to come here because "there was an opening on the first line(s)"... some reports have Bergevin having said first line, some say first lines. At the end of the day, I'm curious to know what MB sold to Radulov. Did he promise him a shot at playing with Pacioretty and Galchenyuk or did he simply tell him he'd have a chance to play in the top 6 in an offensive role.

We're pretty set at RW for now... Gallagher, Radulov, Shaw, and Carr.

Down the middle, I think we have Galchenyuk as the 1C, Mitchell potentially as the 4C, Plekanec in there as either the 2C or 3C and then question marks as to whether McCarron or Hudon or Danault or Desharnais will get the last spot.

On the left side, we have Pacioretty and then a number of question marks. Will Danault be on the wing? Will Andirghetto play LW? Will Hudon or Scherbak or Lehkonen or Reway make the team? Where do DLR and Byron fit in?

So coming back to everything as a whole, I like the first line of Pacioretty-Galchenyuk and one of Gallagher or Radulov. I really like a 3rd line of Danault-Plekanec-Shaw, albeit Plekanec is being way overpaid to play that role. And I'm down with a 4th line of something like Andrighetto/DLR-Mitchell-Carr. The big question remains the 2nd line. If Plekanec plays there, then we don't really have a shutdown 3rd line center, despite Bergevin's unwavering confidence in the unproven Danault. But if Plekanec doesn't play there, we don't have a proven scoring option. I wouldn't mind seeing a pre-season line of something like Lehkonen-McCarron-Gallagher given a shot but ideally MB is looking to make further trades to bolster that up a lot.

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Guest Regis2

Down the middle, I think we have Galchenyuk as the 1C, Mitchell potentially as the 4C, Plekanec in there as either the 2C or 3C and then question marks as to whether McCarron or Hudon or Danault or Desharnais will get the last spot.

PD an DD

On the left side, we have Pacioretty and then a number of question marks. Will Danault be on the wing? Will Andirghetto play LW? Will Hudon or Scherbak or Lehkonen or Reway make the team? Where do DLR and Byron fit in?

Byron, Flynn, possibly Andirghetto

No, no, no, no

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Therrien stated a few weeks ago that he would go into the season with Pacioretty-Galchenyuk-Gallagher as his top line again. At his presser today, Marc Bergevin stated Radulov wanted to come here because "there was an opening on the first line(s)"... some reports have Bergevin having said first line, some say first lines. At the end of the day, I'm curious to know what MB sold to Radulov. Did he promise him a shot at playing with Pacioretty and Galchenyuk or did he simply tell him he'd have a chance to play in the top 6 in an offensive role.

We're pretty set at RW for now... Gallagher, Radulov, Shaw, and Carr.

Down the middle, I think we have Galchenyuk as the 1C, Mitchell potentially as the 4C, Plekanec in there as either the 2C or 3C and then question marks as to whether McCarron or Hudon or Danault or Desharnais will get the last spot.

On the left side, we have Pacioretty and then a number of question marks. Will Danault be on the wing? Will Andirghetto play LW? Will Hudon or Scherbak or Lehkonen or Reway make the team? Where do DLR and Byron fit in?

So coming back to everything as a whole, I like the first line of Pacioretty-Galchenyuk and one of Gallagher or Radulov. I really like a 3rd line of Danault-Plekanec-Shaw, albeit Plekanec is being way overpaid to play that role. And I'm down with a 4th line of something like Andrighetto/DLR-Mitchell-Carr. The big question remains the 2nd line. If Plekanec plays there, then we don't really have a shutdown 3rd line center, despite Bergevin's unwavering confidence in the unproven Danault. But if Plekanec doesn't play there, we don't have a proven scoring option. I wouldn't mind seeing a pre-season line of something like Lehkonen-McCarron-Gallagher given a shot but ideally MB is looking to make further trades to bolster that up a lot.

Yeah the lines are sort of a weird mishmash right now. We absolutely don't have a shutdown line, I guess we'll have to try and match power on power? In an ideal world we kept Eller and put him and Shaw together on a really good looking 3rd line for that role. We still may see some line tinkering. Radulov is very capable of playing LW too so it wouldn't stun me to see them end up putting him on the LW and Shaw in the top 6, I know they shouldn't but it wouldn't surprise me.

As for a top 6 role, probably Andrighetto or Carr, they seem to like Carr although I'd prefer Andrighetto get first crack. If Radulov doesn't work out well this is going to be an utter disaster.

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As it stands so far according to... http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/montreal-canadiens/cap/

67 Max Pacioretty L Shoots: Left
27 Alex Galchenyuk C Shoots: Left
11 Brendan Gallagher R Shoots: Right

47 Alexander Radulov R Shoots: Left
14 Tomas Plekanec C Shoots: Left
42 Sven Andrighetto R Shoots: Left

41 Paul Byron L Shoots: Left
51 David Desharnais C Shoots: Left
65 Andrew Shaw C Shoots: Right

43 Daniel Carr L Shoots: Left
17 Torrey Mitchell C Shoots: Right
32 Brian Flynn C Shoots: Right

21 Stefan Matteau C Shoots: Left Must clear waivers to be demoted because of one-way contract
24 Phillip Danault L Shoots: Left Not under contract yet (roster or Non-roster)???


79 Andrei Markov D Shoots: Left
6 Shea Weber D Shoots: Right

74 Alexei Emelin D Shoots: Left
26 Jeff Petry D Shoots: Right

28 Nathan Beaulieu D Shoots: Left
8 Greg Pateryn D Shoots: Right

45 Mark Barberio D Shoots: Left
? Zach Redmond D Shoots: Right

Carey Price, Al Montoya
Lindgren and Condon have two-way contracts

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Not really sure why every body is bashing Shaw, hes much better then people are giving him credit for. We also didn't sign him to play below top 6 I can foresee our best possible lines baring any trades, Which i would love to get rid of DD / Emelien and add possibly a demers / fowler / shattinkirk.

Forward Paring

Line 1: Patches - Pleks - Gally

Line 2: Shaw/Radulov - Chukcy - Shaw/Radulov

Line 3 : Byron - Danault - Sven

Line 4 : Carr - Mitchell - Flynn

D Pairing

Line 1: Beaulieu - Weber

Line 2 : Markov - Petry

Line 3: Emelin - Pateryn/Barberio

G

Price

Montoya

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Guest Regis2

1.Radulov-Galchenyuk-Gallagher

2.Patches-Plekanec-Shaw

3.Byron-DD-Flynn

4.Carr-Mitchell-Andrighetto

1. Beaulieu-Weber

2. Markov-Petry

3. Barberio/Pateryn

Extras Danault/Matteau Emelin/Redmond

This looks like what I think we are going to see to start the year

but flip

Max P and Radulov

Danault and Emelin are in to start

Matteau is in the minors

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ghetto-galchenyuk-radulov

patch-plek-gallagher

carr-danault-shaw

grit-jam-character

-DD has to be off this team. surely our management, being the logical and clear minded bunch that they are, will make the obvious move.

-real nice upgrade there at 3c. the lineup looks so much worse without eller

-i think our roster looks horrible. i think radulov was a good move but we have the exact wrong coach to utilize him so god knows. im not sure what combinations to expect, only to expect that they will be nonsensical and not adjust based on any kind of tangible data

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Guest Regis2

grit-jam-character

I wonder how fragmented the dressing room was

They get rid of Eller, Subban , Weise , Smith Pelly

Yet they keep guys like DD, Byron, Mitchell , Flynn, Danault , Matteau and Plekanec for that matter ( who is 33 )

and bring in Radulov ( who was a head case ) . Hopefully the head is screwed on and MT doesn't get on him .

Nothing against the 7 guys I mentioned that they kept but none of them really play a hard nosed, grit , character game :unsure: I think .

Seems as though MB rid himself of the " friends of PK " who were expendable .

And those that weren't he kept because they were key pieces to the core

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haha he is going to be 1st wave PP, nevermind not going anywhere.

Picture it:

David Desharnais, first wave on the PP, benefiting from Weber and Muller. He'll be incrementally better there while still getting roasted 5-on-5, and it'll be the justification for a new contract.

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I wonder how fragmented the dressing room was

They get rid of Eller, Subban , Weise , Smith Pelly

Yet they keep guys like DD, Byron, Mitchell , Flynn, Danault , Matteau and Plekanec for that matter ( who is 33 )

and bring in Radulov ( who was a head case ) . Hopefully the head is screwed on and MT doesn't get on him .

Nothing against the 7 guys I mentioned that they kept but none of them really play a hard nosed, grit , character game :unsure: I think .

Seems as though MB rid himself of the " friends of PK " who were expendable .

And those that weren't he kept because they were key pieces to the core

If we look at friends of PK, we can include Gallagher, Galchenyuk, Weise, DSP, Beaulieu, Markov, and Price at the very least. Maybe there were others who got along well with him. In the category of players who had rumored issues with PK, we have Pacioretty and Plekanec. That's all I know about.

I don't think it's that Subban had more enemies than friends, I think it's that Therrien and Bergevin made a point of listening to the anti-Subban faction and closing their ears to the rest. We know Gallagher reacted with shock to the Subban trade. We know Galchenyuk wrote that he was angry at the trade and felt like he lost a big brother in Subban. So it's very clear that there was not widespread hatred for PK. If anything, the hatred seemed to come just from the coaches and management more than anyone else.

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I think Sergachev might start in the minors after perhaps a couple of games up and then may be recalled after Christmas. Despite Markov's age we can move defenders around to give him less ice-time. I think Beaulieu and Weber can develop chemistry and see Petry as perhaps one of the weaker links. I hope Reway surprises and gets a good look right away. With the youth we are carrying we have great opportunity to let some of them see some action this year. McCarron is the one who is in tough for me as making it at centre may not be possible this year, but Hudon will hopefully see some action. Mccarron could easily fill in for De la Rose's spot. The kids on the third line are hopefully an upgrade on Weise and Fleischmann.

#1 line Pacioretty Galchenyuk Gallagher

#2 line Shaw/ Andrighetto Plekanec Radulov

#3 line Andrighetto /Shaw Desharnais Carr

#4 line De la Rose Dannault Mitchell/ Byron

For consideration Reway/Hudon/McCarron

Defence

Weber /Markov

Petry/Beaulieu

Pateryn/ Sergachev/Emelin

Barberio

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I think that for obvious reasons, Pacioretty/Galchenek/Radulov seems like the slam dunk first line.

I'm sure we'll see that a fair amount, and certainly on the power play. But I wouldn't be surprised to see Pacioretty and Radulov split up a fair amount.

Simply for balance reasons, it's beneficial to have someone banging in and around the net. That's what makes Gallagher so special.

Personally, I'd love to see Carr get a long hard look at a top 6 slot. I think he had himself a solid showing last year, as short lived as it was. And from what I saw, he seems to love those dirty areas.

Also, much to everyones dismay (myself included), I don't think we've seen the last of DD. Knock him all we want. When they guy is on his game, he can make some passes. And I have a feeling that with his contract up, and him basically playing for his career, he's going to lay it all out there this year. If he even gets the chance, I can see him squeaking back into that top 6, putting up 60+ and have the best year of his life. Then we'll probably re sign him :(

Lol anyways, here's my take...

Carr/Galchenek/Radulov

Pacioretty/Desharnais/Gallagher

These lines are interchangeable as 1st or 2nd, but didn't want anyone crapping their pants that Radulov wasn't on the top line.

Andreghetto/Plekanic/Shaw

Hudon/Mitchell/... Flynn... Man, is Flynn the best we got for this spot?

Anyways, I'd really love to see these kids get a fair shot at the show this year, and I think this lineup sets them up nicely.

Perhaps McCarron could slot in on the 4th at RW. But I'm thinking he'll need another year in St. John's.

Any other suggestions?

Oh, and as far as D, I'm hoping to get a good look at Beaulieu/Webber. And I'd like to see Barberio and Pateryn get some time, but other than that I don't have too much input.

In net, fingers crossed we start Price :P

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I don't know what Sergachev's eligibility is regarding playing in the AHL. He's still eligible for junior, so for most players of that age, if they don't make the NHL, they need to go back to their junior teams and once that happens, they can't come back up to the NHL/AHL until the junior season is over. The only exception to that is that players who come from overseas don't have to go to junior. I don't know what the policy is for international players who are playing junior in Canada though... all that to say, it could be that the Habs have to make a decision on Sergachev out of camp.

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I don't know what Sergachev's eligibility is regarding playing in the AHL. He's still eligible for junior, so for most players of that age, if they don't make the NHL, they need to go back to their junior teams and once that happens, they can't come back up to the NHL/AHL until the junior season is over. The only exception to that is that players who come from overseas don't have to go to junior. I don't know what the policy is for international players who are playing junior in Canada though... all that to say, it could be that the Habs have to make a decision on Sergachev out of camp.

Pretty sure guys drafted directly from the CHL can't go to the AHL until they're 20 or turning 20 that calendar year (like Beaulieu + Scherbak) but guys drafted from different leagues who then go to the CHL are eligible to leave and go to the AHL whenever. Happens often with guys from the USNDP or Europe. Recent example off the top of my head as a Hab who was eligible to leave was Tinordi, he never did but played 09-10 with the US development program, drafted in 2010 and then spent the following season with London. Would have been eligible to leave in 2011 at 19 if we thought he was ready for pro hockey.

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