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2016-17 The Positive Thread


BigTed3
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  • 4 weeks later...

I had a wow moment today as out of my frustration with a certain captain I was checking his stats because he appeared less involved and I am looking for some more board crashing this year when to my surprise I see Max has actually been out hitting opponents in comparison to our number one defenseman PK. I was surprised and perhaps fooled by PK's attempts to make the big hit. But I wlll have to rethink how poorly I thought Max was doing as apparently he was more involved in the play although with much less icetime. Good for you Max! I am hoping Max starts to be a lot more physical as I see Galchenyuk filling out and hitting as well. They could be a very difficult line to play against along with Gallagher

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I had a wow moment today as out of my frustration with a certain captain I was checking his stats because he appeared less involved and I am looking for some more board crashing this year when to my surprise I see Max has actually been out hitting opponents in comparison to our number one defenseman PK. I was surprised and perhaps fooled by PK's attempts to make the big hit. But I wlll have to rethink how poorly I thought Max was doing as apparently he was more involved in the play although with much less icetime. Good for you Max! I am hoping Max starts to be a lot more physical as I see Galchenyuk filling out and hitting as well. They could be a very difficult line to play against along with Gallagher

I'm not going to get into anything about Max specifically here, but I would clarify that hits as a stat tend to be a poor marker of a player's on-ice value. The old adage is that you never have to hit someone if your team has the puck, so guys who are hitting a lot are sometimes doing that because they're chasing the other team around. Now obviously some guys choose to hit more than others, so it doesn't mean Max hitting is good or bad. I just wouldn't put much stock into what that means. It can mean he's aggressive or it can mean he's not holding puck possession as much as other guys. Ditto for the shot blocking stat. Good D men don't have to block as many shots because they have puck control, clear the zone, and don't face as any attempts against.

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I'm not going to get into anything about Max specifically here, but I would clarify that hits as a stat tend to be a poor marker of a player's on-ice value. The old adage is that you never have to hit someone if your team has the puck, so guys who are hitting a lot are sometimes doing that because they're chasing the other team around. Now obviously some guys choose to hit more than others, so it doesn't mean Max hitting is good or bad. I just wouldn't put much stock into what that means. It can mean he's aggressive or it can mean he's not holding puck possession as much as other guys. Ditto for the shot blocking stat. Good D men don't have to block as many shots because they have puck control, clear the zone, and don't face as any attempts against.

not only that but p.k had "dont hit" on his 10 foot list on "donts" he played very physically in his early years, and did show a tendency to take himself out of the play.

for the last 2 years he barely ever went for the hit.

and max doesnt hit., and if it looked like he wasnt hitting, its because he wasnt.

uh oh this is the positive thread....im out of here. see you when the foxhole gets filled in

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not only that but p.k had "dont hit" on his 10 foot list on "donts" he played very physically in his early years, and did show a tendency to take himself out of the play.

for the last 2 years he barely ever went for the hit.

and max doesnt hit., and if it looked like he wasnt hitting, its because he wasnt.

uh oh this is the positive thread....im out of here. see you when the foxhole gets filled in

Yeah not sure how this took a negative twist other than to say when looking at Max and PK it was Max who provided more bang for the buck and so he appears to be a little more involved than I thought despite the injury. His scoring has been extremely consistent.

I'm not going to get into anything about Max specifically here, but I would clarify that hits as a stat tend to be a poor marker of a player's on-ice value. The old adage is that you never have to hit someone if your team has the puck, so guys who are hitting a lot are sometimes doing that because they're chasing the other team around. Now obviously some guys choose to hit more than others, so it doesn't mean Max hitting is good or bad. I just wouldn't put much stock into what that means. It can mean he's aggressive or it can mean he's not holding puck possession as much as other guys. Ditto for the shot blocking stat. Good D men don't have to block as many shots because they have puck control, clear the zone, and don't face as any attempts against.

The part about possessiom I get , and the stat being a bit hard to predict I get, but was more interested in the tentativeness that appeared to be a part of Max and some of the team as rookies came up and appeared much more engaged. I was surprised to see that they (PK and Max) were equal due to the different positions and TOI. Given they both had the same odds of having skewed stats I was surprised to see Max has equally perforned in this area. A strong forecheck with some good hitting never hurts. Look forward to Radulov bringing some energy to this as well

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Here's a positive thought. If after next season the Habs don't win the cup we can look forward to a new coach and GM. Hopefully Mr. Muller stays though.

If last season didn't cost Therrien his job after the worst run in 80 years of Habs history, then don't hold your breathe.

If we're talking about positives, this is what we can glean:

- Price hopefully being healthy

- Weber, Petry, and Beaulieu solidifying the D corps

- Galchenyuk, now the single most talented and entertaining player on the team

- Gallagher's hustle

- Max and Gallagher's bargain contracts

- Radulov and Sergachev's potential

- Big Mac, Hudon, Scherbak, Lehkonen, and Reway maybe giving us some more scoring form unexpected sources

- the addition of Muller

There are positives here. But they need to tempered by how weak the coaching and management have been. The above are only positives if the good players we have are used properly and put in a proper system. It does no good to have talent if Radulov and McCarron and Hudon don't see the ice while Danault, DLR, Flynn, and Byron get top 6 duty.

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If last season didn't cost Therrien his job after the worst run in 80 years of Habs history, then don't hold your breathe.

If we're talking about positives, this is what we can glean:

- Price hopefully being healthy

- Weber, Petry, and Beaulieu solidifying the D corps

- Galchenyuk, now the single most talented and entertaining player on the team

- Gallagher's hustle

- Max and Gallagher's bargain contracts

- Radulov and Sergachev's potential

- Big Mac, Hudon, Scherbak, Lehkonen, and Reway maybe giving us some more scoring form unexpected sources

- the addition of Muller

There are positives here. But they need to tempered by how weak the coaching and management have been. The above are only positives if the good players we have are used properly and put in a proper system. It does no good to have talent if Radulov and McCarron and Hudon don't see the ice while Danault, DLR, Flynn, and Byron get top 6 duty.

Fairly positive

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Fairly positive

Thanks! (exclamation point included just for the positive thread)...

I know you think I probably just rain on the Habs, but the truth is that there are a lot of good things about the team. But that's what makes it so frustrating that we can't fix the coaching issue. If we had hired Jim Nill as GM four years ago and a coach like Lindy Ruff or Mike Babcock, or Alain Vigneault or Larry Robinson, I truly believe we would have hit at least one Stanley Cup final already and maybe even a Cup.

Many of us harp on the negatives because the Habs choose to make the same mistakes over and over and don't recognize them or try to fix them. If the team is going to insist on its French-language policy and insist on choosing the likes of Therrien and Lefebvre and Byron and Shaw over the likes of Robinson, Subban, Eller, and Vanek, then they deserve to hear about what awful decisions they're making until they show signs that they've learned from those mistakes or until time they win a Cup and show the decisions they've made were merited.

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Fair. i don't understand why anyone is surprised or outraged by the Franco content as i remember after they got rid of everyone before they hired MB and MT Molson pretty much came out and said he was going to up the Franco content as he felt that was the right thing to do for the fans in the province. probably not the most logical way to go but he owns the team and he seems to feel it was something he had to do. there are plenty of reasons it makes no sense but it is what it is and he will probably not change course win or lose as there will always be fans to pay. just look at the laffs.

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Fair. i don't understand why anyone is surprised or outraged by the Franco content as i remember after they got rid of everyone before they hired MB and MT Molson pretty much came out and said he was going to up the Franco content as he felt that was the right thing to do for the fans in the province. probably not the most logical way to go but he owns the team and he seems to feel it was something he had to do. there are plenty of reasons it makes no sense but it is what it is and he will probably not change course win or lose as there will always be fans to pay. just look at the laffs.

A lot of people forget that about 10-15 years ago, the Habs were having trouble selling tickets. You could walk up and get tickets the same day for a game. You could get tickets for groups of 8-10 people together. Molson really has to be careful about hitting that problem again, and he will if he continues to outrage fans by a lack of accountability, stupid language rules, and trading the most popular players because the coach has a personality issue with them.

Not going to re-hash the entire French language thing, but recall that Molson himself stated he didn't think language was that important when he first took over the team. It was only after the Francophone media outrage about Cunneyworth that Molson backtracked on that position and caved in to them. The Habs did plenty well as a franchise and at selling tickets in the days of Bowman and Irvin and so on. So this move is purely from political pressure and little else, and it has little to do with actual necessity. It simply saddens me to see Molson allow himself to be bullied by the French media and by politicians who want to make language an issue where it shouldn't be one.

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Fair. i don't understand why anyone is surprised or outraged by the Franco content as i remember after they got rid of everyone before they hired MB and MT Molson pretty much came out and said he was going to up the Franco content as he felt that was the right thing to do for the fans in the province. probably not the most logical way to go but he owns the team and he seems to feel it was something he had to do. there are plenty of reasons it makes no sense but it is what it is and he will probably not change course win or lose as there will always be fans to pay. just look at the laffs.

There is a BIG difference between Laffs fans and Habs fans IMO.

Habs fans will actually DO something, like not attend games, refuse to watch etc, for certain periods of time.

Laffs fans are loyal beyond silly on the other hand. Just like a dog returning to its vomit. Sell out crowds win or lose. ^_^

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There is a BIG difference between Laffs fans and Habs fans IMO.

Habs fans will actually DO something, like not attend games, refuse to watch etc, for certain periods of time.

Laffs fans are loyal beyond silly on the other hand. Just like a dog returning to its vomit. Sell out crowds win or lose. ^_^

yeah I'm certainly not paying to go to any games this year, I can tell you that. if it was like half the ticket price I'd go

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I don't know guy's i remember very well how we had a few lean years there have been a lot of changes since then like a powerful marketing department which they really did not have before and the team really did suck for a long time. we are one year out from being at the top of the league. and in the short term at least we should still have a very strong team baring injuries.

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I don't know guy's i remember very well how we had a few lean years there have been a lot of changes since then like a powerful marketing department which they really did not have before and the team really did suck for a long time. we are one year out from being at the top of the league. and in the short term at least we should still have a very strong team baring injuries.

I think you're even underestimating the economy too though... or overestimating it. A bad team, a bad economy is a recipe for a nightmare. We saw it already with the junior championship, and last year tickets were being given away by season ticket holders, scalpers were selling them at BELOW ticket price

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I think you're even underestimating the economy too though... or overestimating it. A bad team, a bad economy is a recipe for a nightmare. We saw it already with the junior championship, and last year tickets were being given away by season ticket holders, scalpers were selling them at BELOW ticket price

Montreal has always been more of a Habs town than a general hockey town anyway, the Juniors isn't really a cause of concern. The thing is, any market has the potential for some softening with awful play. Montreal's not even as secure of a market as Toronto and we saw some cracks from all the losing there, some corporate boxes not selling and their sellout streak ending. For Montreal, losing and a boring product will result in some softening of the demand, it's just the way it is. There's a built in floor though, for as bad as it was in the late 90s - early 00s, there was still a high attendance % for an awful team. There were other issues around the edges but you won't see half empty arenas or anything.

For all the talk of Habs fans protesting with their wallets, even after the Roy trade and how awful they were, attendance never fell below 20k in a season. The bar is to sell out every game in a market like Montreal so being 1-2 K is news worthy but I don't think it'll be some kind of mass revolt. Season tickets are hard to get in good teams, people are pretty loathe to give them up and that's coming from a long time season ticket wait list member.

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Montreal has always been more of a Habs town than a general hockey town anyway, the Juniors isn't really a cause of concern. The thing is, any market has the potential for some softening with awful play. Montreal's not even as secure of a market as Toronto and we saw some cracks from all the losing there, some corporate boxes not selling and their sellout streak ending. For Montreal, losing and a boring product will result in some softening of the demand, it's just the way it is. There's a built in floor though, for as bad as it was in the late 90s - early 00s, there was still a high attendance % for an awful team. There were other issues around the edges but you won't see half empty arenas or anything.

For all the talk of Habs fans protesting with their wallets, even after the Roy trade and how awful they were, attendance never fell below 20k in a season. The bar is to sell out every game in a market like Montreal so being 1-2 K is news worthy but I don't think it'll be some kind of mass revolt. Season tickets are hard to get in good teams, people are pretty loathe to give them up and that's coming from a long time season ticket wait list member.

No doubt the Habs have one of the stronger fanbases in the NHL. But that can all change in a hurry. In the social media era, fans can watch games on tv or online, they can PVR the game and watch it later if they have other plans, they can catch highlights whenever they want, or read about it on the internet. There's less need to go to a game to be part of the experience. There's probably more will to be part of the experience if it's a positive one, but if we see years of losing and contempt for fan opinion, it'll cost the Habs in the long run. Even 2,000 less tickets sold per game, given how exorbitant the prices are, would cost the Habs 8 million a year on seats alone, never mind the losses in concession sales and advertising. Missing the playoffs also costs the team millions. At a certain point, that's not going to sit well with Molson and the board.

The problem is that GM doesn't seem to have the foresight to see which path MB and MT are leading him down. If he had Jim Nill and Mike Babcock, we'd probably be in a much better position to be challenging for a Cup. Imagine the revenue even from one Cup finals game at $500 a seat... that's got to be worth something to ownership.

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