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2016-17 The Rumors Thread


BigTed3
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16 hours ago, eldag said:

Leafs have been shopping JVR who has one year left at $4.25 Cap hit ....  they are looking for defensive help. hmmmmmmm ........ maybe an Emelin for JVR deal is a good match for both teams contractually. We would need to add in a sweetner like maybe a Carr or 'Ghetto and say a 2nd round pick .....?????

It'd be a bit scary to me to trade Emelin within the division.  We've seen in all his games against Boston over the years what he can do to a team when he's emotionally invested :P.

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18 minutes ago, Manatee-X said:

It'd be a bit scary to me to trade Emelin within the division.  We've seen in all his games against Boston over the years what he can do to a team when he's emotionally invested :P.

haha ... true enough :5064:

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Nick Kypreos suggests Shattenkirk has a list of 12 teams he'd be interested in being traded to or signing with next off-season and that Montreal and Toronto are both among them.

I personally see less benefit to trading for a D man now, since teams are more limited in who they can protect in the upcoming draft (you only get three D men or else you have to un-protect 3 forwards to protect another D man). Right now, Weber and Petry are locks to be protected, so if you sign and trade for Shattenkirk, it means you leave Beau and Emelin exposed. Right now, up front, we have extra forward spots that we can use to protect people (only Pac, Gallagher, Galchneyuk, and Danault are must-protects IMO), so it makes more sense for us to target a forward in a trade. That being said, Shattenkirk could definitely be a target for us to sign in off-season if he has interest in coming here.

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11 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

 Nick Kypreos suggests Shattenkirk has a list of 12 teams he'd be interested in being traded to or signing with next off-season and that Montreal and Toronto are both among them.

I personally see less benefit to trading for a D man now, since teams are more limited in who they can protect in the upcoming draft (you only get three D men or else you have to un-protect 3 forwards to protect another D man). Right now, Weber and Petry are locks to be protected, so if you sign and trade for Shattenkirk, it means you leave Beau and Emelin exposed. Right now, up front, we have extra forward spots that we can use to protect people (only Pac, Gallagher, Galchneyuk, and Danault are must-protects IMO), so it makes more sense for us to target a forward in a trade. That being said, Shattenkirk could definitely be a target for us to sign in off-season if he has interest in coming here.

If Nick Kypreos is bang on about a trade, and if Shattenkirk agrees to an extension with a NMC before being traded, I think it would be a good move. Jeff Petry is automatically protected due to his NMC under the expansion draft rules, so that should make things easier. So the two d players would only need to be Weber and Beaulieu.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/official-nhl-expansion-draft-exempt-list-contains-surprises/

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On 2/12/2017 at 10:02 PM, manquant said:

If Nick Kypreos is bang on about a trade, and if Shattenkirk agrees to an extension with a NMC before being traded, I think it would be a good move. Jeff Petry is automatically protected due to his NMC under the expansion draft rules, so that should make things easier. So the two d players would only need to be Weber and Beaulieu.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/official-nhl-expansion-draft-exempt-list-contains-surprises/

He still counts toward our protected players, though. The only difference is we can't expose him without him waiving his NMC.

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Bob McKenzie in an radio interview suggested the asking price for Duchene (for us) would be:
 

Two of:
-  McCarron
-  Sergachev
-  Juulsen
-  Scherbak

and a 1st round pick.

So basically Colorado is looking for 3 first rounders for Duchene. 

Im not sure how i feel about it.  Dont get me wrong, the price is probably pretty fair, especially if we could get a 2nd or 3rd rounder back in return.  But my concern is that im not sure Duchene is the solution to our problems.   We would end up pushing Galchenyuk to the 2nd line (either centre or winger) which seems like a waste.    We'd be losing at least one of our top 2 defensive prospects at a time when two of our most important on-roster defensemen are over 30.

To me, this team needs two things more than anything:  1) a system, in the form of a coach with structure and proper deployment  2 )  a top pairing LH defensman.  If i am going to burn up our high end prospects in a trade, it would be to acquire that guy, not another forward.   I dont mind adding a RNH for Emelin + one prospect or something but losing 2 of the guys listed above would be a bit scary right now, especially when we're still being led by a coach like Therrien.


We shall see how this plays out. 

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2 hours ago, maas_art said:

   I dont mind adding a RNH for Emelin + one prospect or something but losing 2 of the guys listed above would be a bit scary right now, especially when we're still being led by a coach like Therrien.

Id rather keep Emelin because the back end is , IMO, weak as it is .

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7 hours ago, Regis22 said:

Article is pre-Julien, but I'm really hoping the idea that Galchenyuk can't be a number 1 center changes with the departure of Therrien.
He's shown he can produce in that role. Therrien's aversion to risk/reward was the only real barrier to Galchenyuk being able to improve at the position while hopefully outproducing the opponent. Even if he is bumped to number 2 center by a new acquisition, that works if he has competent wingers to feed off of. Shaw, Byron, and our unproven prospects aren't going to cut it, so one of Pacioretty or Radulov are going to have to join him on that line.

Our efforts are at least better spent insulating and improving a highly skilled player in Galchenyuk, than applying that same effort to prop up Danault, Desharnais, or Plekanec, which Therrien failed to recognize in favor of his own perceptions.

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5 hours ago, RicochetII said:

Article is pre-Julien, but I'm really hoping the idea that Galchenyuk can't be a number 1 center changes with the departure of Therrien.
He's shown he can produce in that role. Therrien's aversion to risk/reward was the only real barrier to Galchenyuk being able to improve at the position while hopefully outproducing the opponent. Even if he is bumped to number 2 center by a new acquisition, that works if he has competent wingers to feed off of. Shaw, Byron, and our unproven prospects aren't going to cut it, so one of Pacioretty or Radulov are going to have to join him on that line.

Our efforts are at least better spent insulating and improving a highly skilled player in Galchenyuk, than applying that same effort to prop up Danault, Desharnais, or Plekanec, which Therrien failed to recognize in favor of his own perceptions.

I can't see any way that Galchenyuk doesn't get prime 1st line C minutes now.  Even if a coach might otherwise be hesitant to give so much responsibility to a younger player, the complete lack of other options on this team makes Gally the de facto choice for any reasonable person.

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10 hours ago, Manatee-X said:

I can't see any way that Galchenyuk doesn't get prime 1st line C minutes now.  Even if a coach might otherwise be hesitant to give so much responsibility to a younger player, the complete lack of other options on this team makes Gally the de facto choice for any reasonable person.

Julien can be hard on young players but Galchenyuk is a 4 year veteran now.  I expect he plays him a LOT actually. 

Therrien wanted every player on his roster to be a Rod Brindamour.  I think if he had a bunch of players who played well defensively and chipped in 40 points he'd be happier than if he had some defensive players and some offensive stars. Doesnt seem to know what to do with them, but then if he had 4 lines of Tomas Plekanec's he'd never have to line-match... oh wait. :P

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11 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Larry Carriere and Rick Dudley both taking in the Sabres-Aves game tonight... both could be trading partners, but would seem to flame trade fires with the Avs again, despite what MB says.

I was gonna say if Dudley is there it is probably a big deal. But isn't Dudley from Buffalo or something?

 

Either way, must be a good sign.

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10 minutes ago, hatethosebruins said:

I was gonna say if Dudley is there it is probably a big deal. But isn't Dudley from Buffalo or something?

 

Either way, must be a good sign.

Dudley's from Toronto, but he played for the Sabres as a player. I don't think that has much to do with it. I think this game features two teams likely to be sellers at the deadline, and that's why the Habs are scouting it. That said, these are MB's two highest-ranking assistants who are both there, so they're obviously very intent on studying someone in particular.

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Quote

- It's impossible to trade for an elite center

- If teams think that I'm going to trade away Sergachev or a top prospect that could be in the organization for ten years, it won't happen

Is that verbatim? 

My hope was that he was doing a little manipulation. Setting the table for discussions.
When he was suggesting there aren't any 1st line centers available, he's letting GM's know that he views the rumored available players as 2nd line centers. (So if he was looking at Duchene, he's putting Colorado on notice that he won't pay a 1st line center price.) 
Making it seem like our top prospects aren't available, can either reduce asking price, or make the other GM feel like he is getting a "win" if he "convinces" Bergevin to part with one of those players.

Sergachev as untouchable I can understand. The rest are players who aren't necessarily projected to be at the top of the lineup. Especially those who have been around for a few seasons and haven't cracked the full time roster. I think most view Hudon as a 2nd-3rd liner, Juulsen as a potential top 4, McCarron as a 3rd liner with a chance at top 6, etc. Those aren't irreplaceable players, and they may never reach their potential, so there's no need to declare them as untouchable. If you are getting a bona fide 2nd line, non-rental player, while in a cup window, in exchange for a *potential* 2nd line player (that has been with the organization for multiple years without cracking the NHL roster, in Hudon's case), you don't dismiss even the possibility of making that trade.

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7 hours ago, RicochetII said:

Is that verbatim? 

My hope was that he was doing a little manipulation. Setting the table for discussions.
When he was suggesting there aren't any 1st line centers available, he's letting GM's know that he views the rumored available players as 2nd line centers. (So if he was looking at Duchene, he's putting Colorado on notice that he won't pay a 1st line center price.) 
Making it seem like our top prospects aren't available, can either reduce asking price, or make the other GM feel like he is getting a "win" if he "convinces" Bergevin to part with one of those players.

Sergachev as untouchable I can understand. The rest are players who aren't necessarily projected to be at the top of the lineup. Especially those who have been around for a few seasons and haven't cracked the full time roster. I think most view Hudon as a 2nd-3rd liner, Juulsen as a potential top 4, McCarron as a 3rd liner with a chance at top 6, etc. Those aren't irreplaceable players, and they may never reach their potential, so there's no need to declare them as untouchable. If you are getting a bona fide 2nd line, non-rental player, while in a cup window, in exchange for a *potential* 2nd line player (that has been with the organization for multiple years without cracking the NHL roster, in Hudon's case), you don't dismiss even the possibility of making that trade.

Pretty much verbatim...

I agree, you can explain not wanting to trade Sergachev if you think he projects as a true #1 D man for you for 7-10 years. But there's no way MB can honestly think he has 3-4 other prospects with that ceiling and to refuse to include them in negotiations is bizarre and non-constructive. There are 28 other teams Colorado could deal with, and while most GM's have said Col/Ari's asking prices are way too high right now, if they come down a bit, someone will bite. We also need to remember that the closer we get to the deadline, the more teams can afford to take on bigger cap hits, so you'll get more bidders.

As for elite centers not being available, Dallas has always been the prime example, whereby Jim Nill added Seguin and Spezza via trade. Joe Thornton was "available" and swapped teams in his prime. Jeff Carter has swapped teams a couple of times. Ryan Johansen was traded and is a #1 center. Kyle Turris is probably more of a #2 center, but he's still someone of the caliber that could help the Habs' top 6 and he was dealt to the Sens a couple of years ago. The same can be said of Ryan Kesler going to Anaheim. This year alone, we've heard rumors of Duchene, Landeskog, RNH, and Tavares potentially changing teams. Sure, no team is going to give away a top 6 center, but they're definitely out there if you're willing to make a trade. For MB to come out again and say "my job is hard" is a little bit sad. As noted, this could just be a way of setting low expectations, but it's pretty unnecessary for him to say that.

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Mikhail Grigorenko
#25 • LW

    Status: On roster
    Height: 6'3
    Weight: 209 lbs.
    Shoots: L
    Experience: 4 years

    Birthdate: May 16, 1994
    Birthplace: Khabarovsk, RUS
    Drafted: Drafted by Buffalo in 2012 (1/12).
    Acquired: Acquired in a trade with Buffalo in 2015.

Assets:
Has outstanding offensive instincts and an imposing 6-3 frame for the center position. Oozes creativity and can also play either wing position. Can both snipe and be a playmaker.
Flaws:
Needs to work on his game-to-game consistency in order to maximize output in the National Hockey League. Also needs to gain more maturity, overall. His defense needs work
Career Potential:
Talented, versatile but inconsistent scoring forward with upside.

*********************************************************************

When the Habs selected Galchenyuk in the 1st round Grigorenko was also available. For whatever reason,  it seems he never really reached his potential. That said, I would consider him as a project that may be worth the gamble if he is available in trade from Colorado. He could be an upgrade vs. other prospects the Habs currently have. Visions of a potential Grigorenko-Galchenyuk-Radulov line come to mind.

 

What do you think?

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4 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Pretty much verbatim...

I agree, you can explain not wanting to trade Sergachev if you think he projects as a true #1 D man for you for 7-10 years. But there's no way MB can honestly think he has 3-4 other prospects with that ceiling and to refuse to include them in negotiations is bizarre and non-constructive. There are 28 other teams Colorado could deal with, and while most GM's have said Col/Ari's asking prices are way too high right now, if they come down a bit, someone will bite. We also need to remember that the closer we get to the deadline, the more teams can afford to take on bigger cap hits, so you'll get more bidders.

As for elite centers not being available, Dallas has always been the prime example, whereby Jim Nill added Seguin and Spezza via trade. Joe Thornton was "available" and swapped teams in his prime. Jeff Carter has swapped teams a couple of times. Ryan Johansen was traded and is a #1 center. Kyle Turris is probably more of a #2 center, but he's still someone of the caliber that could help the Habs' top 6 and he was dealt to the Sens a couple of years ago. The same can be said of Ryan Kesler going to Anaheim. This year alone, we've heard rumors of Duchene, Landeskog, RNH, and Tavares potentially changing teams. Sure, no team is going to give away a top 6 center, but they're definitely out there if you're willing to make a trade. For MB to come out again and say "my job is hard" is a little bit sad. As noted, this could just be a way of setting low expectations, but it's pretty unnecessary for him to say that.

I think a lot of it is optics.  The problem is though, other GMs know MB's MO.  He's done it in the past (Vanek) but not sure he can pull off another "well thats my price, take it or leave it" sort of deal and we're running out of prime years so ideally he should be making a move soon.

Bob McKenzie suggested that the asking price for Shattenkirk is a 1st rounder + a good prospect.  Would that be worth it to us? It seems a high price to pay for a rental but he's a bone fide 1st pairing guy.  If he were a left handed shot Id probably jump at the deal but - even though I know shattenkirk has played left D - i worry about wether he could line up next to Weber, which ultimately is our biggest need on the blueline.

 

I have a feeling we'll make very little in the way of a 'big splash' - favouring bringing in a veteran or two (like Iginla and/or Vanek).  That scares me much less now (with Therrien gone) than it did last week as I dont think Julien would overplay these guys too much. 

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