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2016-17 The Rumors Thread


BigTed3
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31 minutes ago, BornToBeAHab said:

I agree ,Grigorenko would fit in well here . You wouldn't have to sell the farm to get him here. I would also add Borrows from Vancouver .

Welcome to the Habs community, Borntobeahab. :)

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5 hours ago, caperns61 said:

I would move Danualt Emelin and a pick for RNH...

I would also move Galchenyk and Julsen for Duchene and Col Second round pick

 

I would do Danault/Emelin for RNH in a heartbeat.

The other move is a giant no for me... I value Galchenyuk more than Duchene straight up, and Juulsen (a recent 1st) has more value than a 2nd rounder. Why Galchenyuk over Duchene? Well most data suggests forwards peak in terms of production around 22-24 now, and while they can still be good after that, Duchene is not going to get any better than he is now, whereas Galchenyuk is still on the up and up to some degree. In the past calendar year, prior to his injury, he was a top 5 scorer in the league. It would not make sense to deal him for someone who's a few years older and only signed for two more years (vs. Galchenyuk, who could be signed for several more years as an RFA). If there were a deal based around Galchenyuk for Duchene, I'd be the one asking for other assets in the trade.

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Hanzel is off the market. Minn overpaid for him. 

The Arizona Coyotes have traded F Martin Hanzal, F Ryan White and a 2017 4th round pick to the Minnesota Wild for a 2017 1st round pick, 2018 2nd round pick and 2019 conditional pick.

https://www.nhl.com/news/martin-hanzal-traded-to-wild-by-coyotes/c-287159416?tid=278542340

I don't know where this goes. Please move if this is the wrong thread. Thanks! 

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5 minutes ago, manquant said:

Hanzel is off the market. Minn overpaid for him. 

The Arizona Coyotes have traded F Martin Hanzal, F Ryan White and a 2017 4th round pick to the Minnesota Wild for a 2017 1st round pick, 2018 2nd round pick and 2019 conditional pick.

https://www.nhl.com/news/martin-hanzal-traded-to-wild-by-coyotes/c-287159416?tid=278542340

I don't know where this goes. Please move if this is the wrong thread. Thanks! 

I can't move it,,,, but this is where it belongs:

http://fans.canadiens.nhl.com/community/topic/29198-the-trade-deadline/

 

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30 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

I would do Danault/Emelin for RNH in a heartbeat.

The other move is a giant no for me... I value Galchenyuk more than Duchene straight up, and Juulsen (a recent 1st) has more value than a 2nd rounder. Why Galchenyuk over Duchene? Well most data suggests forwards peak in terms of production around 22-24 now, and while they can still be good after that, Duchene is not going to get any better than he is now, whereas Galchenyuk is still on the up and up to some degree. In the past calendar year, prior to his injury, he was a top 5 scorer in the league. It would not make sense to deal him for someone who's a few years older and only signed for two more years (vs. Galchenyuk, who could be signed for several more years as an RFA). If there were a deal based around Galchenyuk for Duchene, I'd be the one asking for other assets in the trade.

Agree with everything there.
 

To me, RNH is the guy to target because i think he can be had for a LOT less than any of the other names in play.  First of all Edmonton has made some very weird trades lately and second, Emelin has repeatedly shown up in rumors connected to the oilers.  I could see there being a real fit there. 


Either way, I would move Emelin NOW. First off, Julien obviously thinks he's not a first pairing dman and if we can acquire someone to play with Weber, Markov moves back to Petry's side an where does that leave Emelin?  His value is probably at an alltime high too, which is when i always would want to move a player. 

And i couldnt agree more about Galchenyuk vs Duchene.  Duchene is a great player but we would need to acquire him as well as retain Galchenyuk & Pacioretty. Any other forward is probably fair game, although I think Radulov would be undesirable since Colorado obviously are sellers. 

 

 

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Interesting read from MA Godin and Guillaume Lefrancois today, where they asked three NHL scouts from other teams (anonymously) what they saw in Habs' trade assets. A few highlights:

- Desharnais basically has no trade value (not surprisingly). They noted that he could still be an NHL player on a team that needs a puck-mover on the PP, but that players like this, with little size or defensive ability, are a dime a dozen, so no one is going to give up assets for him in a trade

- Galchenyuk was deemed to have the most trade value on the team, with the scouts saying they liked his game and that the Habs needed to stop screwing around with his position and give him a chance. They really felt like he was underrated in Montreal because the coaches had played around with his confidence too much but that he had huge amounts of talent.

- Gallagher was another player that interested the scouts, and they couldn't figure out why he wasn't in more trade rumors. They stated most teams could use a guy like Gallagher, and that this is the type of guy other GM's would enquire about. There was some concern post-injury whether he would be a 25-goal man or a 14-goal man going forward though.

- Plekanec was deemed to draw pretty minimal interest. The scouts thought he still had NHL skill level but that his salary was not worth going near.

- Beaulieu was probably the one that was the most eye-opening for me... scouts felt he was maybe a #5 D man and that what really concerned them was his reputation off the ice... some concern over off-ice incidents but also a question of what his work ethic was like away from the rink. They see some skill but also some red flags and felt like we would get better value for him in a package deal.

- McCarron was seen as being a useful player but more likely to be a 3rd or 4th liner like Brian Boyle rather than a 20-25 goal scorer. Some concern over his footspeed but a feeling that he would still be a coveted player in trades on account of his size. Again, they thought we would get more value for him in a package deal, where he was the throw-in with potential.

- Juulsen didn't have much consensus, with one scout saying he thought he would be a solid top 4 option and others questioning whether he would be more a third-pairing stay-at-home guy. The suggestion was that he would definitely be an NHL-quality D man but that if Habs could land a top-4 D man for him, they should jump on it immediately. They added that he's definitely no Sergachev.

- And lastly Lindgren was deemed to be a nice option as a back-up but still too early to say where he was going. Scouts recognized that he had outplayed Fucale, and one scout added that he was the type of player other teams might want, whereby they let another organization develop the goalie and give him playing time, then come in and take him if the organization didn't see him making the next jump or getting playing time at the NHL level.

So some nice perspective overall from NHL scouts outside the organization and how they view our guys. We frequently talk about how most fanbases over-value their own players, and I'm sure that's true here too. But interesting to note that Galchenyuk is not being over-valued at all and is honestly seen as a fantastic asset league-wide, as well as Gallagher to a lesser degree. The Plekanec and DD comments don't surprise me, they simply affirm that we aren't getting anything for either one in a trade right now. According to these scouts at least, it seems like perhaps we over-value Beaulieu and McCarron to some degree, although still time to see how both cases play out.

 

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10 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Interesting read from MA Godin and Guillaume Lefrancois today, where they asked three NHL scouts from other teams (anonymously) what they saw in Habs' trade assets. A few highlights:

- Desharnais basically has no trade value (not surprisingly). They noted that he could still be an NHL player on a team that needs a puck-mover on the PP, but that players like this, with little size or defensive ability, are a dime a dozen, so no one is going to give up assets for him in a trade

- Galchenyuk was deemed to have the most trade value on the team, with the scouts saying they liked his game and that the Habs needed to stop screwing around with his position and give him a chance. They really felt like he was underrated in Montreal because the coaches had played around with his confidence too much but that he had huge amounts of talent.

- Gallagher was another player that interested the scouts, and they couldn't figure out why he wasn't in more trade rumors. They stated most teams could use a guy like Gallagher, and that this is the type of guy other GM's would enquire about. There was some concern post-injury whether he would be a 25-goal man or a 14-goal man going forward though.

- Plekanec was deemed to draw pretty minimal interest. The scouts thought he still had NHL skill level but that his salary was not worth going near.

- Beaulieu was probably the one that was the most eye-opening for me... scouts felt he was maybe a #5 D man and that what really concerned them was his reputation off the ice... some concern over off-ice incidents but also a question of what his work ethic was like away from the rink. They see some skill but also some red flags and felt like we would get better value for him in a package deal.

- McCarron was seen as being a useful player but more likely to be a 3rd or 4th liner like Brian Boyle rather than a 20-25 goal scorer. Some concern over his footspeed but a feeling that he would still be a coveted player in trades on account of his size. Again, they thought we would get more value for him in a package deal, where he was the throw-in with potential.

- Juulsen didn't have much consensus, with one scout saying he thought he would be a solid top 4 option and others questioning whether he would be more a third-pairing stay-at-home guy. The suggestion was that he would definitely be an NHL-quality D man but that if Habs could land a top-4 D man for him, they should jump on it immediately. They added that he's definitely no Sergachev.

- And lastly Lindgren was deemed to be a nice option as a back-up but still too early to say where he was going. Scouts recognized that he had outplayed Fucale, and one scout added that he was the type of player other teams might want, whereby they let another organization develop the goalie and give him playing time, then come in and take him if the organization didn't see him making the next jump or getting playing time at the NHL level.

So some nice perspective overall from NHL scouts outside the organization and how they view our guys. We frequently talk about how most fanbases over-value their own players, and I'm sure that's true here too. But interesting to note that Galchenyuk is not being over-valued at all and is honestly seen as a fantastic asset league-wide, as well as Gallagher to a lesser degree. The Plekanec and DD comments don't surprise me, they simply affirm that we aren't getting anything for either one in a trade right now. According to these scouts at least, it seems like perhaps we over-value Beaulieu and McCarron to some degree, although still time to see how both cases play out.

 

Thank you for the objective observation BT, very sobering & insightful, and something we should keep in mind IMO.

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31 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

- Gallagher was another player that interested the scouts, and they couldn't figure out why he wasn't in more trade rumors. They stated most teams could use a guy like Gallagher, and that this is the type of guy other GM's would enquire about. There was some concern post-injury whether he would be a 25-goal man or a 14-goal man going forward though.

- Plekanec was deemed to draw pretty minimal interest. The scouts thought he still had NHL skill level but that his salary was not worth going near.

- Beaulieu was probably the one that was the most eye-opening for me... scouts felt he was maybe a #5 D man and that what really concerned them was his reputation off the ice... some concern over off-ice incidents but also a question of what his work ethic was like away from the rink. They see some skill but also some red flags and felt like we would get better value for him in a package deal.

- McCarron was seen as being a useful player but more likely to be a 3rd or 4th liner like Brian Boyle rather than a 20-25 goal scorer. Some concern over his footspeed but a feeling that he would still be a coveted player in trades on account of his size. Again, they thought we would get more value for him in a package deal, where he was the throw-in with potential.

- Juulsen didn't have much consensus, with one scout saying he thought he would be a solid top 4 option and others questioning whether he would be more a third-pairing stay-at-home guy. The suggestion was that he would definitely be an NHL-quality D man but that if Habs could land a top-4 D man for him, they should jump on it immediately. They added that he's definitely no Sergachev.

Not surprised about Gallagher. He should be an asset to any team, but there have been times where I've questioned how much "we" actually need him, and whether we should consider moving him. I have difficulty understanding how similar players that are more physically suited for his role, seem unable to perform as well. The only real thing that stands out with his play, is that he does it all with a smile on his face. Is that the secret? :P

I was hoping Plekanec's salary wasn't as prohibitive as it seemed, but I guess it's worse than I had hoped. Some day GMs will learn that you have to anticipate a decline in play after a certain age, and use your cap accordingly.

I still have hopes for Beaulieu as at least a top 4. I didn't think he had significant off ice issues, but if scouts are concerned about it, I guess I should be too. Work ethic surprises me, and also disappoints me the most, as that is simply inexcusable.

Always felt McCarron as a top 6 was an outside chance anyway. I think we do have an inflated perception of his value simply because his size has been especially rare in our case. Not too long ago we were comprised almost entirely of "smurfs", so there's some distortion there.

I have a similar opinion on Juulsen. If we can get something good for him now, we should.

Interesting takes either way, thanks for the share.

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2 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Interesting read from MA Godin and Guillaume Lefrancois today, where they asked three NHL scouts from other teams (anonymously) what they saw in Habs' trade assets. A few highlights:

Beaulieu was probably the one that was the most eye-opening for me... scouts felt he was maybe a #5 D man and that what really concerned them was his reputation off the ice... some concern over off-ice incidents but also a question of what his work ethic was like away from the rink. They see some skill but also some red flags and felt like we would get better value for him in a package deal.

 

 

They're probably referring to the incident with his dad and other people at a bar.    Beaulieu I feel is one those guys with all the tools but without the drive/motivation/desire to use them.    He's got the speed, he's moves pucks well ... but he just seems to have stagnated and hasn't made the next leap in his progression.   That might be MT's fault, it might be his

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21 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

I would do Danault/Emelin for RNH in a heartbeat.

The other move is a giant no for me... I value Galchenyuk more than Duchene straight up, and Juulsen (a recent 1st) has more value than a 2nd rounder. Why Galchenyuk over Duchene? Well most data suggests forwards peak in terms of production around 22-24 now, and while they can still be good after that, Duchene is not going to get any better than he is now, whereas Galchenyuk is still on the up and up to some degree. In the past calendar year, prior to his injury, he was a top 5 scorer in the league. It would not make sense to deal him for someone who's a few years older and only signed for two more years (vs. Galchenyuk, who could be signed for several more years as an RFA). If there were a deal based around Galchenyuk for Duchene, I'd be the one asking for other assets in the trade.

I understand where your coming from with the Galchenyk. I disagree about Galchenyk being better then Duchene, potential possibly. But Duchene can play in all situations in a game Galchenyk cannot,   Duchene He is over 60% in the faceoff circle and over 52 %  his carreer. He is consistently a 20 plus goal scorer and can play both the power play and the penalty kill. With the ridiculous trade of eller in the offseason. We lost the center who could replace Pleks. We cannot rely on Gallchenyk at all defensively. But having RNH and Duchene, both play a much more rounded game and with that one, two, we don't need pleks, so we can move him out. With Gally as your number one or two you still need that defensive player like Pleks  eating up huge minutes with 0 offensive production. You can play RNH and Duchene 19 or 20 minutes each because they can play both ends of the ice with Galchenyk you need and extra center to play the defensive side of the game for him. Straight up I doubt Colorado would do Duchene for Galchenyk. I threw in Julsen because colorado is after deeman. I also belive you underestimate how good Duchene is. He has excelled at every level including playing against the best in the World. Galchenyk was passed over by both team USA and the team NA just this past season. that to me is somewhat of a red flag.

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54 minutes ago, Regis22 said:

If Montreal can't or won't meet Colorado's demand for Duschene than there's no way they agree with Philly

It might not be near as difficult to get Giroux as it would be to get Duchene.  Hextall might be willing to move Giroux to make the cap space.  It may be as simple as loading up Hextall on DP's.

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1 hour ago, East_Coast_Juggalo_13 said:

91.9 and hockeyfeed do not strike me as the most reliable sources.  I hope MTL does not do something stupid.

 

1 hour ago, Regis22 said:

If Montreal can't or won't meet Colorado's demand for Duschene than there's no way they agree with Philly

 

7 minutes ago, East_Coast_Juggalo_13 said:

It might not be near as difficult to get Giroux as it would be to get Duchene.  Hextall might be willing to move Giroux to make the cap space.  It may be as simple as loading up Hextall on DP's.

He has a cap hit of $8.275 mil. Doubt if MB would go for that, even if was true.  

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3 minutes ago, East_Coast_Juggalo_13 said:

It might not be near as difficult to get Giroux as it would be to get Duchene.  Hextall might be willing to move Giroux to make the cap space.  It may be as simple as loading up Hextall on DP's.

I don't think Philly's looking for a re-build. They still have several quality players (Simmonds, Giroux, Voracek, Schenn, Couturier, etc.). They're probably looking more at making a lateral trade and they need help on D. I can see them liking guys like Gallagher, McCarron, Beaulieu, and Emelin. So for argument's sake, would you trade Gallagher, McCarron, and a 1st for Giroux?

The two differences compared to Colorado are 1. Sakic seems intent on getting a top D prospect, which Philly might not be insistent on and 2. Giroux is French, so MB might be willing to pay more for that.

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55 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

That said, would be surprised if this rumor had any real legs, as haven't seen anything in mainstream media and have even seen some guys report they haven't seen anything to suggest Giroux on market.

I went to 2 different Flyers forums ( 1 official), and they had nothing on it. No rumours,,,,,,,,,,,, nothing on it. 

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1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

I don't think Philly's looking for a re-build. They still have several quality players (Simmonds, Giroux, Voracek, Schenn, Couturier, etc.). They're probably looking more at making a lateral trade and they need help on D. I can see them liking guys like Gallagher, McCarron, Beaulieu, and Emelin. So for argument's sake, would you trade Gallagher, McCarron, and a 1st for Giroux?

The two differences compared to Colorado are 1. Sakic seems intent on getting a top D prospect, which Philly might not be insistent on and 2. Giroux is French, so MB might be willing to pay more for that.

Giroux isn't from Quebec though, he's from Ontario.

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31 minutes ago, RicochetII said:

I dunno. He did just take on Weber's massive contract. He was also fine with paying Plekanec $6M at 35 years old. Doesn't seem like much of a stretch at this point.

Cap hit, Rico. 

 

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6 hours ago, habs1952 said:

Giroux isn't from Quebec though, he's from Ontario.

Aware he's from Ontario, but he's still a Francophone. Habs have gone with guys like Pouliot and Jacques Martin and others who are Franco-Ontarians before too. Heck, Bouillon's American and the team still treated him like he was a dignitary. Conversely, there was no big hoopla for Torrey Mitchell, who's from Montreal but speaks French as a second language only. For Bergevin and the Habs, it's never been about where you're born, it's been about whether you're on the right side of the language debate.

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