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2016-17 The Rumors Thread


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1. The Andersen move by Toronto is questionable. He may pan out. But his numbers are not that much better than Bernier's playing for a much better team. He's about the same age as Bernier. And he'll be making more money on a long-term deal despite never having played more than 54 games in a season. In fact, his trade to TO mirrors the deal the Leafs made to acquire Bernier in the first place: a young back-up goalie from a good California team who is highly-touted but largely unproven. It remains to be seen if Andersen is truly a step up and whether he can handle the load as a starter in Toronto or whether most of his success was simply due to the team he played for.

2. On Stamkos, I agree with the sentiment that you simply find a way to make it work. He's a top 10 player in the league and unlike many of those types of players who become UFA's, he's available in his mid-20's, not at the end of his 20's or beginning of his 30's when you can expect you'll be overpaying into years of decline. Stamkos is in his prime now. He is a perfect fit for a team that can't score goals, that has an awful powerplay, and that has many elements that are also in their prime now and can win a Cup this year or next year or in two years. Fitting him under the cap will take work, no doubt, but Bergevin spens all his time complaining that it's too hard to find superstars or make trades. Here's a guy who could fall into our lap and be a star for years without our having to give up any assets. What does Bergevin have to do? He has to present the logical argument that Montreal is the best destination for him. And he has to find a creative way to shed one or two of Plekanec, Desharnais, Emelin, or Markov. A good GM should be able to make that happen. Maybe we have to give up a prospect or pick like Chicago did to deal Bickell. But it would likely be worth it to acquire Stamkos (e.g. if Stamkos says he'll play here for 10M and we need to give up Hudon or Scherbak to be able to unload Emelin and create the cap space, then you make that trade, end of story). And if Stamkos really wants to go to Toronto (the only destination that really gives MB an excuse for not getting SS), then Bergevin needs to be in on Okposo or Eriksson or Ladd or someone else. He's been too passive and non-committal to winning now, and this is really the summer where MB needs to move in order to stop the wasting of the Price/Subban/Pacman years.

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1. The Andersen move by Toronto is questionable. He may pan out. But his numbers are not that much better than Bernier's playing for a much better team. He's about the same age as Bernier. And he'll be making more money on a long-term deal despite never having played more than 54 games in a season. In fact, his trade to TO mirrors the deal the Leafs made to acquire Bernier in the first place: a young back-up goalie from a good California team who is highly-touted but largely unproven. It remains to be seen if Andersen is truly a step up and whether he can handle the load as a starter in Toronto or whether most of his success was simply due to the team he played for.

2. On Stamkos, I agree with the sentiment that you simply find a way to make it work. He's a top 10 player in the league and unlike many of those types of players who become UFA's, he's available in his mid-20's, not at the end of his 20's or beginning of his 30's when you can expect you'll be overpaying into years of decline. Stamkos is in his prime now. He is a perfect fit for a team that can't score goals, that has an awful powerplay, and that has many elements that are also in their prime now and can win a Cup this year or next year or in two years. Fitting him under the cap will take work, no doubt, but Bergevin spens all his time complaining that it's too hard to find superstars or make trades. Here's a guy who could fall into our lap and be a star for years without our having to give up any assets. What does Bergevin have to do? He has to present the logical argument that Montreal is the best destination for him. And he has to find a creative way to shed one or two of Plekanec, Desharnais, Emelin, or Markov. A good GM should be able to make that happen. Maybe we have to give up a prospect or pick like Chicago did to deal Bickell. But it would likely be worth it to acquire Stamkos (e.g. if Stamkos says he'll play here for 10M and we need to give up Hudon or Scherbak to be able to unload Emelin and create the cap space, then you make that trade, end of story). And if Stamkos really wants to go to Toronto (the only destination that really gives MB an excuse for not getting SS), then Bergevin needs to be in on Okposo or Eriksson or Ladd or someone else. He's been too passive and non-committal to winning now, and this is really the summer where MB needs to move in order to stop the wasting of the Price/Subban/Pacman years.

,

Emphasis in bold. That's what concerns me; about MB's defeatist attitude on the matter, and for this reason Stamkos might slip through our hands. :(

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FWIW, Darren Dreger on TSN this morning:

“The sense that I got in scouring the league yesterday was that Bergevin is active. The sense is that he wants to add, rather than subtract. Again, the story of the possibility of a P.K. Subban trade is a sexy one, because it’s salacious this time of year and in connection to his significance in the city of Montreal and to the Canadiens organization, but I don’t get the sense that that’s what we’re talking about.

“’Add’ could be just about anything. He might be able to find a way to change his look up front by adding a top-6, if you will, through free agency. Is it via trade. Is it possible that the Montreal Canadiens do everything within their power to get in on the Stamkos sweepstakes.

“So I’m generalizing here, and I think that most of his colleagues who I talked to yesterday who suggest that he’s in the game means that he’s open for business for just about anything.”

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Dreger also said that some people are saying that the Sabres are willing to go into the 12 million dollar range for Stamkos. He went on to clarify that he doesn't like to get into speculation but neither the Lightening nor the Sabres are saying anything. These are just rumours at this time.

Geeze guys, are we willing to get into that bidding war? I would be hesitant, but again, these guys almost never become available. We also have to take into account that what paying him that much would do to Carey's salary demands in a couple of years.

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Dreger also said that some people are saying that the Sabres are willing to go into the 12 million dollar range for Stamkos. He went on to clarify that he doesn't like to get into speculation but neither the Lightening nor the Sabres are saying anything. These are just rumours at this time.

Geeze guys, are we willing to get into that bidding war? I would be hesitant, but again, these guys almost never become available. We also have to take into account that what paying him that much would do to Carey's salary demands in a couple of years.

Thing is though, I dont think money is going to be the issue. I am not certain its going to require $12m - and to be honest, there's this sort of 'code' in hockey that most guys seem to live by. Would Stamkos be looking for more than Ovechkin ($9.53m) Malkin ($9.5m) Crosby ($8.7) ? Dunno. Just getting paid in that range would most likely do the trick - and knowing he's one of the top 5 highest pald players while not totally handicapping his new team financially probably will suffice.

That said, if it takes $12m + max term to sign him, you do it. You dont get an opportunity to get a guy like stamkos very often. You could easily argue, if we got him, that he was our best forward in the past 20 years. You have to do whatever it takes to get a guy like that.

I still say where he signs will be 100% up to him. He will call the shots & he will sign where he feels most comfortable & most likely win a cup.

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Guest Regis2

Bob Mackenzie a while back said he got the sense that it would be less about money and more about going to a team that can win now. If that's true, that puts us miles ahead of TOR, BUF, DET and a lesser extent, NYR.

Miles ?

Detroit and NYR both finished higher than Montreal last yr and Buffalo was 1 pt behind Montreal.

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I would much rather have okposa and errickson at 5 or 6 million over the next 5 years than paying 12 million for stamkos

I think we are good down the middle, gally, pleks, eller and Mitchel, you add two 25 to 30 goal wingers.

DRaft one of 3 big dee to play with subban ...we would be set for the next 5 years

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Miles ?

Detroit and NYR both finished higher than Montreal last yr and Buffalo was 1 pt behind Montreal.

Detroit lost Datsyuk. A lot of their core is either older or still not yet in their prime. They don't have an elite goalie. Their coach pretty much got the maximum he could out of that line-up last year, but their max potential is not as high as ours is.

The Sabres have a very good young core, but like Toronto, it's probably a little ways away from competing for a Cup. If they keep going, they'll be a force in a couple of years, but they're not going to win a Cup in the next two seasons.

The Rangers might have better odds than the Habs next year, but they have the opposite problem of the Sabres. Their core is falling off the cliff, so their window might be short. Yandle's already gone. Girardi is aging, Nash might be traded, Lundqvist is getting up there, Staal is declining already. They have the classic Glen Sather problem of trading away lots of future assets for stars with big contracts, who then decline and leave the team scrambling to find the next generation.

So out of all those teams, I would agree that Montreal probably has the best and longest Cup window there. They're probably the only team in that bunch positioned to compete for a Cup right away next year (with Stamkos) and still be able to compete for one in 3 years as well. To me, that's a thought that has to run through Stamkos' head. Does he want to waste 2-3 of his prime years waiting out the build-up in Toronto or Buffalo? Maybe, but that's probably not in his best interest of maximizing his chances of a Cup.

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Lebrun says that during the last 48 hours there have been an increasing number of calls regarding whether we are willing to move Subban. It's hardly surprising with the draft and July 1 approaching but people are losing their minds. Personally, I don't think he's going anywhere.

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I agree Subban is going nowhere. If Stamkos is considering playing here I'm sure Subban being on the team is a factor for him wanting to come.

And on Stamkos - the numbers line up quite well to get Stamkos this year and we should overpay, even if that means buying out Desharnais.

Emelin, Markov, Plekanec and Eller are all UFA's in the coming years, right as Bergevin will have to re-up Price and Galchenyuk.

Draft Logan Brown and he is comparable to a bigger version of Plekanec in the coming years. I think there is great opportunity here with Gallagher, Patches, Petry, Subban and Price as a really good core. Stamkos would just make this team stellar.

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'What this means for the Canadiens is that they would definitely have to move a body - or two - to make space for him (Stamkos). He also plays up the middle, so likely a centreman has to go.Tomas Plekanec could be a candidate, but Stamkos doesn't replace what he can do defensively.


Another option could be David Desharnais, or some combination of him and another player. The simple fact is that they probably need to free up at least $3-4 million (or more) in order to be able to handle his salary demands. How they would make that happen is anyone's guess. It's not an easy task, but it's certainly doable.


That being said, Stamkos could be the piece that puts them over the top. With a healthy Carey Price, they are often spoken of as legitimate contenders. Add a veritable goal scoring machine to what they already have, and the sky is the limit. It is the kind of move that would make them a very serious threat in the East next year.


Realistically, it is probably a longshot, but you can't help wondering how good the Habs would look if they were able to somehow get Steven Stamkos on their roster.'



http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/2016/6/23/11983598/steven-stamkos-contract-rumours-montreal-canadiens-free-agency-2016-targets-analysis


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'What this means for the Canadiens is that they would definitely have to move a body - or two - to make space for him (Stamkos). He also plays up the middle, so likely a centreman has to go.Tomas Plekanec could be a candidate, but Stamkos doesn't replace what he can do defensively.

Another option could be David Desharnais, or some combination of him and another player. The simple fact is that they probably need to free up at least $3-4 million (or more) in order to be able to handle his salary demands. How they would make that happen is anyone's guess. It's not an easy task, but it's certainly doable.

That being said, Stamkos could be the piece that puts them over the top. With a healthy Carey Price, they are often spoken of as legitimate contenders. Add a veritable goal scoring machine to what they already have, and the sky is the limit. It is the kind of move that would make them a very serious threat in the East next year.

Realistically, it is probably a longshot, but you can't help wondering how good the Habs would look if they were able to somehow get Steven Stamkos on their roster.'

http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/2016/6/23/11983598/steven-stamkos-contract-rumours-montreal-canadiens-free-agency-2016-targets-analysis

Plekanec & DD gone = $9.5m

Your centres are:

Stakos

Galchenyuk

Eller

Mitchell

Thats a pretty ridiculously strong pivot lineup. Obviously we would have to take $$ back but the point being that while Stamkos may not play the same type of defensive game as Plekanec, Eller does - and was actually more effective at it last year than pleks - and with a 1 - 2 punch of Stamkos-Galchenyuk - you dont really need much more than an eller shut down line to round out the big minutes.

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Let's be honest. If the NHL didn't have guaranteed contracts and teams could just release players as they do in the NFL and CFL, then players like Desharnais and Emelin wouldn't be on the roster next year. Plekanec and Markov likely would be, but I'd venture the team would still look to see if that money could be better-spent. Plekanec at 3-4M a year is great value. Plekanec at 6M a year is starting to tie up money you need for other players. Markov at 2-3M a year is fine. At close to 6M, he's hurting us more than helping us.

Do all 4 of those players still have value? Absolutely. They're all NHL-quality players. But for what they're being paid (about 20M total), we could sign Stamkos, Okposo, and Eriksson. We're not talking about MB having to dump Price to get Stamkos. He has to find a way to get rid of less useful parts, that's all.

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Let's be honest. If the NHL didn't have guaranteed contracts and teams could just release players as they do in the NFL and CFL, then players like Desharnais and Emelin wouldn't be on the roster next year. Plekanec and Markov likely would be, but I'd venture the team would still look to see if that money could be better-spent. Plekanec at 3-4M a year is great value. Plekanec at 6M a year is starting to tie up money you need for other players. Markov at 2-3M a year is fine. At close to 6M, he's hurting us more than helping us.

Do all 4 of those players still have value? Absolutely. They're all NHL-quality players. But for what they're being paid (about 20M total), we could sign Stamkos, Okposo, and Eriksson. We're not talking about MB having to dump Price to get Stamkos. He has to find a way to get rid of less useful parts, that's all.

Emphasis in bold: The perception is though, that MB is too nervous and/or fearful to make the big moves which would allow this to happen.

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Plekanec & DD gone = $9.5m

Your centres are:

Stakos

Galchenyuk

Eller

Mitchell

Thats a pretty ridiculously strong pivot lineup. Obviously we would have to take $$ back but the point being that while Stamkos may not play the same type of defensive game as Plekanec, Eller does - and was actually more effective at it last year than pleks - and with a 1 - 2 punch of Stamkos-Galchenyuk - you dont really need much more than an eller shut down line to round out the big minutes.

But who is playing with Chucky? I think if you get Stamkos, you'll have to move Chucky back to LW and keep Pleks

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Guest Regis2

If you believe the rumours the Habs are listening to offers for PK but their asking price is too high

I think they should get rif of their coach not their best D Man

Nick Kypreos ‏@RealKyper · 38m38 minutes ago

Hearing #Canadiens Bergevin price remains too high in his bid to trade Subban. Moving up @2016NHLDraft for crack at Dubois remains priority

Stu Cowan ‏@StuCowan1 · 5m5 minutes ago

#Habs GM Marc Bergevin says he's still listening to calls from other teams about PK Subban

BrianWilde ‏@BWildeCTV · 2h2 hours ago

The key to Benning's over-speak is that he is one of many teams to speak & he said the price for PK is high. This speaks to depth of negos.

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Interesting comment from Peter Chiarelli today, when he said he was pushing hard for a #1 defenceman, preferably a right-handed shot and he noted that there were "maybe 12 tru number one defencemen in the league." That just goes to show you the value Subban brings to the team and how dumb it would be to trade him for a forward or picks. If I look through the league, these are the players i would consider to be true number one D men, meaning they can play 25+ a night, be rolled out in any situation, and be a #1 guy on essentially any team in the league:

- Subban

- Karlsson

- Doughty

- Keith

- Pietrangelo

- Suter

- Hedman

- Weber

- McDonagh

- Letang

- Ekman-Larsson

I don't consider Ekblad, Chara, Giordano, Vlasic, Burns, Seth Jones, and Gostisbehere to be true number ones at this point in their careers, so Chiarelli's estimate of a dozen is probably pretty close. The point is that if only one third of teams get a D man whose even close to Subban's caliber, then that's a player you really need to hold onto pretty closely.

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Guest Regis2

Laraque apparently twittered that the Habs offered Subban to the Oilers for Draisaitl and 4th overall pick. Chia said no.

If that's what MB asked for he should be fired

that's not enough

You're giving up a # 1 D man for what

Leon Draisaitl been in the league 1 yr and a pick

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