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2016-17 The Rumors Thread


BigTed3
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14 minutes ago, habs_93 said:

It's extremely disheartening. This is almost exactly the kind of move you'd expect the 2008-09 Oilers or 2007-08 Maple Leafs to make.

Sure seems like Bergevin is in full on damage control mode. Tack another two or three seasons onto the inevitable rebuild.

No kidding, 'disheartening' sums it up perfectly. We simply have no use for a guy like Hanzal, he's not the answer and never will be – unless maybe there are more drastic changes to come. As it stands though, all he's going to do is keep us afloat, so we can continue playing .500 hockey with our current core. Yay <_<

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Just throwing this out.

Rumour has it that Nino Niederreiter might be available from the Wild. EOTP has done an article on him and how would he fit into the Habs plans. Wild have a cap problem, and with some players looking for a payday, and their lack of picks in the 1st an 2nd rds. they might move him. 

"Niederreiter potted 25 goals and 32 assists this past season, which placed him fourth on his team, however in Montreal he’d have finished second in the goal-scoring race, behind only Pacioretty. It was his third consecutive year registering at least 20 goals, and his point total steadily increased over that period.

He stands 6’2” and weighs in at 209 lbs., so should Marc Bergevin still be looking his increase the size of his forward corps, he doesn’t have to sacrifice skill to get it. He’s got great hands, especially in close, and a wicked wrist shot that would be great to have on one of the top two lines. .Not only can he score, but he does well driving play in the right direction, and that would fit in well with the new system that Claude Julien is trying to implement. Clocking in at a stellar 55.41 Corsi-for percentage, Niederreiter not only produces points, but limits the offence of the opposition as well."

 

Full article here: 

http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/2017/5/18/15654772/nino-niederreiter-trade-speculation-analysis-stats-montreal-canadiens-minnesota-wild-marc-bergevin

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20 minutes ago, kinot-2 said:

Just throwing this out.

Rumour has it that Nino Niederreiter might be available from the Wild. EOTP has done an article on him and how would he fit into the Habs plans. Wild have a cap problem, and with some players looking for a payday, and their lack of picks in the 1st an 2nd rds. they might move him. 

"Niederreiter potted 25 goals and 32 assists this past season, which placed him fourth on his team, however in Montreal he’d have finished second in the goal-scoring race, behind only Pacioretty. It was his third consecutive year registering at least 20 goals, and his point total steadily increased over that period.

He stands 6’2” and weighs in at 209 lbs., so should Marc Bergevin still be looking his increase the size of his forward corps, he doesn’t have to sacrifice skill to get it. He’s got great hands, especially in close, and a wicked wrist shot that would be great to have on one of the top two lines. .Not only can he score, but he does well driving play in the right direction, and that would fit in well with the new system that Claude Julien is trying to implement. Clocking in at a stellar 55.41 Corsi-for percentage, Niederreiter not only produces points, but limits the offence of the opposition as well."

 

Full article here: 

http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/2017/5/18/15654772/nino-niederreiter-trade-speculation-analysis-stats-montreal-canadiens-minnesota-wild-marc-bergevin

I always thought he would look great in a Habs UNI... but is it realstic to think Bergevin can acquire him?

 

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30 minutes ago, Habs_Hockey_Nutz said:

I always thought he would look great in a Habs UNI... but is it realstic to think Bergevin can acquire him?

 

What's in the bargain bin? <_<

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2 hours ago, kinot-2 said:

Just throwing this out.

Rumour has it that Nino Niederreiter might be available from the Wild. EOTP has done an article on him and how would he fit into the Habs plans. Wild have a cap problem, and with some players looking for a payday, and their lack of picks in the 1st an 2nd rds. they might move him. 

"Niederreiter potted 25 goals and 32 assists this past season, which placed him fourth on his team, however in Montreal he’d have finished second in the goal-scoring race, behind only Pacioretty. It was his third consecutive year registering at least 20 goals, and his point total steadily increased over that period.

He stands 6’2” and weighs in at 209 lbs., so should Marc Bergevin still be looking his increase the size of his forward corps, he doesn’t have to sacrifice skill to get it. He’s got great hands, especially in close, and a wicked wrist shot that would be great to have on one of the top two lines. .Not only can he score, but he does well driving play in the right direction, and that would fit in well with the new system that Claude Julien is trying to implement. Clocking in at a stellar 55.41 Corsi-for percentage, Niederreiter not only produces points, but limits the offence of the opposition as well."

 

Full article here: 

http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/2017/5/18/15654772/nino-niederreiter-trade-speculation-analysis-stats-montreal-canadiens-minnesota-wild-marc-bergevin

Undoubtedly a player any team would welcome into their top 6.  I *believe* he only plays LW though so the question is:  is chucky a centre or a lw?   if he's a LW then we need to move a LW because there isnt room for Niederreiter, Patches and chucky in the top 6. 

My big concern (obviously) would be how much would he cost.  If we can get him for parts, great. If the cost is Chucky then no thanks.

I honestly think our biggest concerns are #1 Centre and a puck moving Dman to play with Weber.  As much as Id like a guy like NN, i think we need to turn our assets into those 2 holes first & then see what else is left...

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1 hour ago, maas_art said:

Undoubtedly a player any team would welcome into their top 6.  I *believe* he only plays LW though so the question is:  is chucky a centre or a lw?   if he's a LW then we need to move a LW because there isnt room for Niederreiter, Patches and chucky in the top 6. 

My big concern (obviously) would be how much would he cost.  If we can get him for parts, great. If the cost is Chucky then no thanks.

I honestly think our biggest concerns are #1 Centre and a puck moving Dman to play with Weber.  As much as Id like a guy like NN, i think we need to turn our assets into those 2 holes first & then see what else is left...

I believe Galchenyuk could play right-wing

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5 hours ago, kinot-2 said:

Just throwing this out.

Rumour has it that Nino Niederreiter might be available from the Wild. EOTP has done an article on him and how would he fit into the Habs plans. Wild have a cap problem, and with some players looking for a payday, and their lack of picks in the 1st an 2nd rds. they might move him. 

"Niederreiter potted 25 goals and 32 assists this past season, which placed him fourth on his team, however in Montreal he’d have finished second in the goal-scoring race, behind only Pacioretty. It was his third consecutive year registering at least 20 goals, and his point total steadily increased over that period.

He stands 6’2” and weighs in at 209 lbs., so should Marc Bergevin still be looking his increase the size of his forward corps, he doesn’t have to sacrifice skill to get it. He’s got great hands, especially in close, and a wicked wrist shot that would be great to have on one of the top two lines. .Not only can he score, but he does well driving play in the right direction, and that would fit in well with the new system that Claude Julien is trying to implement. Clocking in at a stellar 55.41 Corsi-for percentage, Niederreiter not only produces points, but limits the offence of the opposition as well."

 

Full article here: 

http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/2017/5/18/15654772/nino-niederreiter-trade-speculation-analysis-stats-montreal-canadiens-minnesota-wild-marc-bergevin

If there's a way to swing a deal surrounding Beaulieu plus some combination of prospects/picks while keeping Sergachev, I'm all in.

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2 minutes ago, maas_art said:

The latest rumour from our buddy Eklund has us offering Alex Galchenyuk for Derek Stepan and JT Miller.  

Thankfully, if Eklund says it, its usually wrong. 

I would make that deal!!! I'd rather Chucky be part of a package for an elite C or someone who looks to be becoming one... but I would jump at that deal. Both of those are better than any centers we currently have. Unless you think that Chucky can finally get it together and play center, I don't think we can do much better. I would imagine that Plekanec would be going the other way too.... Stepan, Miller and Danault up the middle is quite an improvement! There is at least hope that one can step up and be a true #1 but at least we'd have solid consistent play from the 3 of them. 

The more I think about it the more I think that Rangers would never make this deal

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1 hour ago, habsisme said:

I would make that deal!!! I'd rather Chucky be part of a package for an elite C or someone who looks to be becoming one... but I would jump at that deal. Both of those are better than any centers we currently have. Unless you think that Chucky can finally get it together and play center, I don't think we can do much better. I would imagine that Plekanec would be going the other way too.... Stepan, Miller and Danault up the middle is quite an improvement! There is at least hope that one can step up and be a true #1 but at least we'd have solid consistent play from the 3 of them. 

The more I think about it the more I think that Rangers would never make this deal

Under normal circumstances it may not be a bad trade but we need quality scoring players.  I think both Rags players are consistent, solid threats but neither have even close to the potential that chucky has.  Chucky can still be a PPG player imho.  He gone stretches of 30 - 40 games playing like one. 

Now, maybe our coaches and development team feel like he'll never do so consistently, in which case we know what we'd be getting in return.  Unfortunatey I have zero faith in our development and talent analysis team.

Having seen what Julien did with 2 way forwards in Boston i think either guy could be very good for us, but that cost is really really high.   

59 minutes ago, East_Coast_Juggalo_13 said:

I've seen a couple of rumours that DAL is shopping their 3rd ova pick.  Why not offer Chucky for their 3rd ova?

Normally, Id be all for it - but right now, to me, a play for the 3rd OVA pick is a move in the wrong direction. Weber, Price, Pacioretty, Petry and several others are trending the wrong way. We may get 1 or 2 more years out of Markov. What we need is help NOW. Maybe Patrick or Hischier can jump in (although its rare unless you're a generational talent like McDavid or Crosby) but chances are guys like Mittelstadt or Villardi wont be ready to be a true #1 for at least a couple of years.  By then will we even have Price or Pacioretty?  How will Weber look? 

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Stepan and Miller are mid-level players. Chucky is the best player in the deal and has more potential for the future. Bad trade by a mile.

Draft is weak this year, so not worth giving up Chucky for a prospect who needs work. It won't help our current core in the least. If you make that deal, you may as well trade Pacioretty, Price, Weber, Petry, etc. as well.

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5 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Normally, Id be all for it - but right now, to me, a play for the 3rd OVA pick is a move in the wrong direction. Weber, Price, Pacioretty, Petry and several others are trending the wrong way. We may get 1 or 2 more years out of Markov. What we need is help NOW. Maybe Patrick or Hischier can jump in (although its rare unless you're a generational talent like McDavid or Crosby) but chances are guys like Mittelstadt or Villardi wont be ready to be a true #1 for at least a couple of years.  By then will we even have Price or Pacioretty?  How will Weber look? 

I agree, and if they did decide to rebuild then I don't think you start with Galchenyuk

7 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Under normal circumstances it may not be a bad trade but we need quality scoring players.  I think both Rags players are consistent, solid threats but neither have even close to the potential that chucky has.  Chucky can still be a PPG player imho.  He gone stretches of 30 - 40 games playing like one. 

Now, maybe our coaches and development team feel like he'll never do so consistently, in which case we know what we'd be getting in return.  Unfortunatey I have zero faith in our development and talent analysis team.

Having seen what Julien did with 2 way forwards in Boston i think either guy could be very good for us, but that cost is really really high.   

I was thinking exactly of Julien and Boston when I thought of 2 centers coming in like that. My understanding is JT Miller is also like Galchenyuk that way (inconsistent play) so he may also have some untapped potential there too. 

Just to be clear I wouldn't do one for one on either but I would jump at Galchenyuk + for both which is what I believe the rumor to be. 

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2 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Stepan and Miller are mid-level players. Chucky is the best player in the deal and has more potential for the future. Bad trade by a mile.

Draft is weak this year, so not worth giving up Chucky for a prospect who needs work. It won't help our current core in the least. If you make that deal, you may as well trade Pacioretty, Price, Weber, Petry, etc. as well.

I see your point but I just think we might as well rebuild if we don't get significant center help now. We are not winning anything until we do... we don't even have a puncher's chance. Going in to season I though Pleks would rebound and Chucky would be #1 C. neither seems likely anymore

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3 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Stepan and Miller are mid-level players. Chucky is the best player in the deal and has more potential for the future. Bad trade by a mile.

Draft is weak this year, so not worth giving up Chucky for a prospect who needs work. It won't help our current core in the least. If you make that deal, you may as well trade Pacioretty, Price, Weber, Petry, etc. as well.

I would not consider JT miller a mid level player. 24 years old just coming of  back to back  22 goal scoring seasons, scoring 22 goals, 34 assists, 57 points, this past season. Also plays really well in his own end. 

I know Galchenyk looks like he has a boat load of talent, but he is probably one of the worst players in the NHL in his own zone. And other then the stretch ending the season in 2015 2016, he really has not done much offensively. He has scored more than 20 goals once in 5 years.  

Derek Stephan is certainly also above  mid level, would be  a nice replacement for Pleks, Only 26 years old, And plays a solid game all over the ice.  Similiar to Eller strong down low and along the boards, but far more offensive upside.

I would do that trade. 

You get two guys who can score over 50 points and will not hurt you in your own end. Both youn 26 and 24, Good pieces. 

Your giving up a guy who got more than 50 points one season, and your scared to have out on the ice on the defensive side of the blueline

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4 hours ago, habsisme said:

I see your point but I just think we might as well rebuild if we don't get significant center help now. We are not winning anything until we do... we don't even have a puncher's chance. Going in to season I though Pleks would rebound and Chucky would be #1 C. neither seems likely anymore

I think it makes more sense to find one center now than it is to try a full re-build and hope it works. Again, there have been lots of rumors about various centers being available, including RNH and Tavares and Duchene and Tyler Johnson and Couturier and so on. Thornton is a free agent and not the guy you build around but a player who could be a stop gap for a year or two. There are other teams who might be as willing as us to make changes. Ideally, I'd like to get a guy who can be with us for 5+ years, not an aging veteran who's already hitting his 30's, but that's where MB needs to get creative. Can he go out and get Duchene without giving up Galchenyuk or Sergachev? Would Colorado look at some package of 2-3 guys for example (Gallagher and/or Juulsen and/or Beaulieu and/or Emelin and/or McCarron). I really think you need to work that angle first, and if you really fail at getting a 1C, then you look at your other options. But I'd find it hard to believe RNH isn't available or that the price on Duchene won't come down with every single team passing at the deadline.

If you can get a guy like Duchene or RNH or so on to plug onto your first line with Pacman and Radulov, then I have absolutely no issue with a line of Lehkonen-Galchenyuk-Gallagher being line 2 and getting loaded with O zone starts. Plenty of top centers are not great on draws. Plenty of them are not great defensively. Chucky is an elite player in terms of offensive skill and he's still a positive possession player despite his defensive woes. He's 100 times better than DD, and the Habs seemed to have no issue letting Desharnais be our number one center for years. As I've noted, Chucky was also 2nd on the team in points per game and 1st on the team in points per ice time at 5v5, so despite his injuries, he was more productive than anyone else. He needs to be let loose to play, not bottled up the way we treated Subban.

Another alternative to get a top center (like a Tavares or a Draisaitl or so on) would be to trade Price or Weber. A little bit crazy in some respect, but if Price isn't willing to commit to a long-term contract then maybe you can grab value for him now. Maybe you grab value for Weber before he declines. Carey could certainly fetch a 1C, so what about a trade of something like Price + Plekanec for Tavares plus Halak. We know Halak can handle the pressure of Montreal. Could he be a guy who can quarterback us for a year or two the way we used Andy Moog or Jeff Hackett in the past, while we wait to see if Lindgren is the real deal. If Lindgren's not, then maybe solid prospect Michael McNiven is or maybe you just go out and find another goalie the way the Pens turned to Matt Murray or so on. I could live with Halak/Lindgren in goal if it meant a top 9 of Pacman-Tavares-Radulov, Lehkonen-Galchenyuk-Gallagher, Hudon-Danault-Shaw. In any case, I think there are options that don't include a full rebuild. If we are planning a rebuild that involves trading Galchenyuk, then as said, you may as well be dealing all your vets. There's no point in hanging on to Weber or Pacioretty or Price or Petry or Plekanec if your plan is to win in 3-5 years. You may as well grab as many top prospects and draft choices as you can instead. But to me, this should absolutely be a Plan B only.

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3 minutes ago, Ravadak said:

I would not consider JT miller a mid level player. 24 years old just coming of  back to back  22 goal scoring seasons, scoring 22 goals, 34 assists, 57 points, this past season. Also plays really well in his own end. 

I know Galchenyk looks like he has a boat load of talent, but he is probably one of the worst players in the NHL in his own zone. And other then the stretch ending the season in 2015 2016, he really has not done much offensively. He has scored more than 20 goals once in 5 years.  

Derek Stephan is certainly also above  mid level, would be  a nice replacement for Pleks, Only 26 years old, And plays a solid game all over the ice.  Similiar to Eller strong down low and along the boards, but far more offensive upside.

I would do that trade. 

You get two guys who can score over 50 points and will not hurt you in your own end. Both youn 26 and 24, Good pieces. 

Your giving up a guy who got more than 50 points one season, and your scared to have out on the ice on the defensive side of the blueline

J.T. Miller is overrated. He had an abysmal 45% Corsi this past season at 5v5 with only 48% scoring chances. He posted a high PDO and that was pretty much what floated his numbers up above where they should have been. He was virtually invisible in the series against us in the playoffs. Stepan spent most of the playoff series against us on his butt from being hammered repeatedly. He was easily displaced from the puck. While his possession numbers were better than Miller's, he also benefited from a higher PDO than average. Despite the fact that he's been given regular top 6 minutes in NY, he's only posted two 20-goal seasons in his career. He had fewer points per game this year than Galchenyuk, despite the fact Chucky played on the 3rd/4th lines for part of the year. And FWIW, both Miller and Stepan have poor records in the faceoff circle too, one of the reasons people feel the need to move Chucky. We frankly don't need playmakers, we need goal-scorers. Chucky can be a 30+ goal scorer if he's given the chance to play top 6 an entire season. Stepan has proven he's not that guy. Miller likely won't do better than he's done the past two years, given his puck luck. We're better off sticking with Chucky in this exchange.

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Even if you assume some of the Ranger players' historically hideous possession performance is due to Vigneault's systems, it's still a really poor record. It's also a move you make when you think you can win, and I just don't see it. If we're going to move Galchenyuk, I'd rather do it with an eye to the future.

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19 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

. Chucky can be a 30+ goal scorer if he's given the chance to play top 6 an entire season. .

I am sure he can score 30 goals if given 18 plus minutes a game. but that is the problem. You cannot find 18 minutes a game for him because he is such a liability in the defensive zone ....

Listen I get the talent that he has, but after 5 seasons, still nothing, he had a chance to redeem himself in the playoffs and played on the perimeter more than any other player on the team...

Taking team corsi into account and certainly harder assigments  for both Stephan and Miller, Stephan Corsi was higher than Galchenyk on a far worse possession team, he was actually almost 3% points higher then his team average, yet Miller and Galchenyk had similiar numbers relative to there teams :) 

Montreal as a team 52.54, and Galchenyk was only at 50.25%

NYR as a team 47.95%, Stephan at 50.75%, Miller at 45.11%

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, habs_93 said:

Even if you assume some of the Ranger players' historically hideous possession performance is due to Vigneault's systems, it's still a really poor record. It's also a move you make when you think you can win, and I just don't see it. If we're going to move Galchenyuk, I'd rather do it with an eye to the future.

You need to be getting back an equal-caliber player (i.e. don't be trading him for several lesser parts) and you need to be trading him for a player as young as he is (i.e. no sense in getting older if you're not lined up for a Cup right away). End of story.

 

1 hour ago, Ravadak said:

I am sure he can score 30 goals if given 18 plus minutes a game. but that is the problem. You cannot find 18 minutes a game for him because he is such a liability in the defensive zone ....

Listen I get the talent that he has, but after 5 seasons, still nothing, he had a chance to redeem himself in the playoffs and played on the perimeter more than any other player on the team...

Taking team corsi into account and certainly harder assigments  for both Stephan and Miller, Stephan Corsi was higher than Galchenyk on a far worse possession team, he was actually almost 3% points higher then his team average, yet Miller and Galchenyk had similiar numbers relative to there teams :) 

Montreal as a team 52.54, and Galchenyk was only at 50.25%

NYR as a team 47.95%, Stephan at 50.75%, Miller at 45.11%

Why can we not find 18 minutes a night for Galchenyuk? He has a positive Corsi, positive scoring chance ratio, and positive expected goals for ratio. All that to say that no matter how bad you might think he is defensively, the team is still producing more shot attempts, scoring chances, and goals for at ES with him on the ice than the opposition. Last season, his record with Radulov was not very good. His record with Gallagher was fantastic. So pair him with Gallagher and let the two players play. Who care if you need to shelter him a bit for him to get to 30 goals. We can't seem to find too many guys who can net 20, never mind 30, and we simply don't have other alternatives at this time. I get your point about the Rangers having a bad team Corsi, but Miller is essentially a bad possession player on a bad possession team, which makes him look even worse, since he can't even keep up with his teammates. 

I'm not 100% against trading Chucky. I just think that

1. The Habs have devalued him because of how much they've juggled him around the line-up and ruined his confidence.

2. There is too much focus on his defensive woes and not enough on the fact that his offence has produced more success than his defence has produced problems.

Given how weak we are at center, grabbing more 2nd-to-3rd line guys is not the solution. You want to trade Chucky as part of a package for a bona fide 1st line center like Tavares, by all means. You want to trade him for a young guy who has the potential to be a #1 center like Draisaitl, by all means. You want to trade him for a guy who can be a top-pairing D man like OEL or Ekblad or Hedman and then use Weber as trade bait to get a #1 center in return, by all means. But let's not trade our only potential 1st line center (and even if you don't believe he currently is one, he's still the only guy in the entire organization with the skill to be a 1C right now) for guys who's max ceiling is 2nd line.

 

 

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No Stepan for me...i wouldnt ever consider trading for the Plekanec clone...

JT Miller is actually a player i like and i think he could fit in our team, but you dont trade Galchenuyk for him...If the Rangers are going to consider taking Stepan out of the conversation, and adding a player like for example Skjei to JTMiller, as a package, then i would be all ears...

Mark Bergevin has to be very carefull if he opts to trade Galchenuyk. After the aftermath of the Subban/Weber trade, and if you are up for another blockbuster trade, you better make sure you are on top of it and dont get fleeced again. I mean the original MTL/NYR rumor was Stepan+ for Galchenuyk and that alone simply doesnt cut it Mr. Bergevin...no matter the +....

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Stepan and Miller for Galchenyuk? No thanks, the Rags can keep those guys.

So we'd essentially trade Subban, Galchenyuk, and Eller for Weber, Stepan, Miller, and a couple of late second rounders in a weak draft year? That's flat out horrible and exactly how you set a team back for years.

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