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2016-17 The Rumors Thread


BigTed3
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As others have said, you have to be open to all offers. If there's a good trade to be made involving Beaulieu, you make it. I just have no confidence in this regime to recognize value.

Absolutely. Every player should be tradeable for the right return. In the Subban trade, however, we got the worse player now, the worse player for the future, and the worse contract. We won that deal on zero fronts. In the Eller/Shaw trade-off, we lost the better player, took on a worse contract, and downgraded two picks doing it, all in the name of grit. If we had dealt Subban for Hall, Draisaitl, Nurse, and a 1st then yes, you still hate to lose the best player in the deal, but at least you could argue we were getting young talent, potential to be better in the future, and addressing another problem.

With respect to Beaulieu, the rumors are that MB wants to trade him to add a veteran defenceman. But do we really need to trade a guy who could be a top 4 D man for 5-10 years here for a guy who might be in that role for 2-3. It only makes sense if you are really close to winning a Cup now. And with MT and SL and MB here, they're simply not heading in that direction. This management and coaching group deserves no benefit of the doubt based on how many things they've blown. So I'll buy a Beaulieu trade being good for us when I see if MB can make a trade that doesn't handicap the left side of our D.

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I agree. Galchenyuk is skilled but he's going to get labeled "flashy" and "a risk taker" by MB and MT before too long. They just have zero appreciation of talent. I have no doubt that if someone came along and offered MB a player like Giroux or Callahan for Galchenyuk that he would be drooling over adding "grit" and "character" to the line-up.

MB needed to make this team better, but he also needed to recognize his young skill core (Price, Subban, Galchenyuk, Pacioretty, Gallagher, Eller, Beaulieu, McCarron, now Sergachev) as being players to build around. He's already traded two of those guys this off-season, both deals which he lost badly (if you consider the Eller deal as for Shaw, Shaw's contract, and downgrading of two picks). And now he seems to be thinking about trading away his only young skilled left-handed defenceman. It's a disaster. If the GM trades Plekanec or DD or Markov or Emelin or so on, you can accept that those players weren't going to be around or playing at a high level for long anyways. But to deal youth in exchange for older or less skilled players is quite unacceptable.

he is already! (chucky, labelled a risk taker, etc)

look at his ice time last year. look at his garbage linemates. he only got a chance at the end because dd got hurt, period. not because he was getting a well deserved shot.

he will likely start the year on the 1st line , because he produced so well that MT has no choice. if he does not score and score a lot, he will lose his ice time to dd again, and our intrepid coach will go back to using him in the worst way possible, and then there will be grounds to trade him because he isnt producing and hes out there trying to do inexcusable things like deke guys out and make nice plays.

Would Gallagher be next on the hit list? <_<

no, gallagher has limited talent but lots of character, so hes untouchable thats the magic formula

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no, gallagher has limited talent but lots of character, so hes untouchable thats the magic formula

I agree that it's silly he's untouchable and Beaulieu/Subban are apparantely pieces to move, but I strongly disagree with this characterization of Gallagher. Gallagher is a very strong winger, he creates a ton of offense at even strength and while he plays well with Pacioretty he's had tons of success away from him as well. Here's a good rundown of Gallagher's (and Pacioretty's) value in creating offense, I think Gallagher will rank a lot higher among his peers than you'd expect. In terms of on ice shot creation and even strength goal he's pretty much as good as it gets at RW outside of the elite Perry/Kessel/Kane/Tarasenko tier.

I think he should be an "untouchable", but the issue for me is that I highly doubt the Habs think he's an untouchable for the right reasons. Gallagher is a borderline elite level shot producer, a high end goal scorer, and a great possession player who has proven he can play with any of the team's top 3 centers and is no slouch defensively. He should be nigh-untouchable when you consider how good he is, how little his cap hit is, and how young he is. My issue with Gallagher being an untouchable is that I don't think the Habs brass looks at any of that stuff, they think he's an untouchable because he's gritty and a good character guy. I know this isn't really your main point but I think Gallagher is criminally underrated by the Habs fanbase and it breaks my heart because he's one of the few things to be genuinely positive about.

I have the same issue with the talk of a Beaulieu trade. I don't think Beaulieu is a big time core player and I wouldn't be opposed to a Beaulieu trade in principle, but I have little to no confidence in these guys not totally screwing it up. If they move Beaulieu for a player that's stronger and more proven right now, it's a good move since the Subban for Weber trade completely ruined the cup window and they have to win RIGHT NOW before that contract becomes a complete albatross, Price either costs 9M or walks, and/or Markov completely falls off the wagon (which might be this year already). If they recognize that mistake and move for someone that helps them win now while Price, Pacioretty, Gallagher, and Galchenyuk are all cost controlled and Plekanec/Markov/Weber are still productive veterans, then it's a good move. My issue is I think they're going to move him for more gritty leadership and probably end up with a player that's more expensive, older, and worse but is a "name brand" player. I think they'll basically just redo the Subban trade on a smaller scale.

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I agree that it's silly he's untouchable and Beaulieu/Subban are apparantely pieces to move, but I strongly disagree with this characterization of Gallagher. Gallagher is a very strong winger, he creates a ton of offense at even strength and while he plays well with Pacioretty he's had tons of success away from him as well. Here's a good rundown of Gallagher's (and Pacioretty's) value in creating offense, I think Gallagher will rank a lot higher among his peers than you'd expect. In terms of on ice shot creation and even strength goal he's pretty much as good as it gets at RW outside of the elite Perry/Kessel/Kane/Tarasenko tier.

I think he should be an "untouchable", but the issue for me is that I highly doubt the Habs think he's an untouchable for the right reasons. Gallagher is a borderline elite level shot producer, a high end goal scorer, and a great possession player who has proven he can play with any of the team's top 3 centers and is no slouch defensively. He should be nigh-untouchable when you consider how good he is, how little his cap hit is, and how young he is. My issue with Gallagher being an untouchable is that I don't think the Habs brass looks at any of that stuff, they think he's an untouchable because he's gritty and a good character guy.

I have the same issue with the talk of a Beaulieu trade. I don't think Beaulieu is a big time core player and I wouldn't be opposed to a Beaulieu trade in principle, but I have little to no confidence in these guys not totally screwing it up. If they move Beaulieu for a player that's stronger and more proven right now, it's a good move since the Subban for Weber trade completely ruined the cup window and they have to win RIGHT NOW before that contract becomes a complete albatross, Price either costs 9M or walks, and/or Markov completely falls off the wagon (which might be this year already). If they recognize that mistake and move for someone that helps them win now while Price, Pacioretty, Gallagher, and Galchenyuk are all cost controlled and Plekanec/Markov/Weber are still productive veterans, then it's a good move. My issue is I think they're going to move him for more gritty leadership and probably end up with a player that's more expensive, older, and worse but is a "name brand" player. I think they'll basically just redo the Subban trade on a smaller scale.

bold is pretty much what i was getting at.

gallagher is an effective player, i definitely enjoy him being on the team , definitely wasnt trying to marginalize him.

and i agree with your overall assessment

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If MB is going to keep trading key assets for other teams table scraps (ie Shaw, Weber), then why not just do a full scale rebuild? It is what any GM who precedes MB is going to have to do, anyway. This "Building through the draft" pack of lies we've been fed is simply pure garbage from MB. Same as that "No Excuses" song and dance. He's made every last excuse for himself and Therrien.

Moving forward, I truly believe the reigns of the club should be handed over to Trevor Timmins. The man who's unearthed all the elite talent that Bergie feels fit to trade away, should be given an opportunity to turn this team into a champion.

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From the RabidHabs site:


"According to RDS reporter François Gagnon during an interview with Montreal Canadiens General Manager, Marc Bergevin, the team is currently fielding offers for the young defenseman.


As Eric Engels suggested on his Twitter account, maybe Bergevin is interested in signing UFA D Kris Russell to play on the third-paring with Greg Pateryn, so they can afford to trade Nathan Beaulieu for a young top-nine forward to improve Montreal’s struggling offense.


Once again the Edmonton Oilers are rumored to be interested in Beaulieu and would be willing to part with Nail Yakupov in order to make it happen."


Bold is mine.

Russel is 5' 10", 170#. His best offensive year was 2 years ago with 4G, 30A.


If MB is fielding calls, then to me, that means he is actively shopping him, otherwise, why not just say "nope, we're keeping him"?

WTH is going on in Montreal???
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From the RabidHabs site:
"According to RDS reporter François Gagnon during an interview with Montreal Canadiens General Manager, Marc Bergevin, the team is currently fielding offers for the young defenseman.
As Eric Engels suggested on his Twitter account, maybe Bergevin is interested in signing UFA D Kris Russell to play on the third-paring with Greg Pateryn, so they can afford to trade Nathan Beaulieu for a young top-nine forward to improve Montreal’s struggling offense.
Once again the Edmonton Oilers are rumored to be interested in Beaulieu and would be willing to part with Nail Yakupov in order to make it happen."
Bold is mine.
Russel is 5' 10", 170#. His best offensive year was 2 years ago with 4G, 30A.
If MB is fielding calls, then to me, that means he is actively shopping him, otherwise, why not just say "nope, we're keeping him"?
WTH is going on in Montreal???

You mean like the PK situation? :lol:

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Maybe they figure since CP appears back to his world class form of 2 years ago, they don't need puck moving D men as MT's system , which everyone apparently seems to buy into , requires you to have the ability to chip it off the boards , hence the Habs feel they can afford to sign slugs as D men

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What happened to building through the draft? Let's just trade all young talent we have and sign a bunch of veterans past their prime because they're proven winners, I'm sure that's going to win us a Cup.

When your philosophy is that it doesn't matter who plays as long as you have Carey Price, I guess it doesn't matter. All MT and MB want on D are players who dump the puck out. They don't care about players with skill, players who can skate it out, players who can support the rush and create offence. All of that is deemed too risky. The way they want to build the team is have Carey stop mostly everything, have D men who just clear the puck out, and have forwards who chase the puck around and score 1-2 goals a game in hope that Carey lets in fewer. That's the game plan.

Russell is not good, at all.

There is also this.

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When your philosophy is that it doesn't matter who plays as long as you have Carey Price, I guess it doesn't matter. All MT and MB want on D are players who dump the puck out. They don't care about players with skill, players who can skate it out, players who can support the rush and create offence. All of that is deemed too risky. The way they want to build the team is have Carey stop mostly everything, have D men who just clear the puck out, and have forwards who chase the puck around and score 1-2 goals a game in hope that Carey lets in fewer. That's the game plan.

I honestly think they looked at the that cup-winning habs bunch from the early 90s & thought 'we'll just do that" - because Demers (and Burns before him) basically built a team around Patrick Roy.

There are, of course, huge differences in the game nowadays - but much more important than that is that back then we actually had a system. Sure, Roy faced a lot of shots, but they were calculated low-percentage shots. Every now and again he'd have a bad night & let in 6 or 7 but for the most part, if he could see it, he could stop it. The defense would collapse clog up areas where shots were likely to become goals and clear rebounds. Roy would do the rest.

If we built some system like this (it would be boring) we'd probably do fine too but we dont have a "system." Instead, we let the opposition outshoot us and offer little to no 'calculated support' for price. We play bad offensive hockey and even worse defensive hockey, relying on Price to play all-world hockey.

Unless something changes drastically, I think we're going to have a hard time contenting, which is a shame really because even with PK gone, this is a good solid roster. We will most likely squander another year of it.

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<EDITED> PK has been left off every team Canada roster for a reason, Weber has been on every one for a reason. Yes PK has a ton of talent but he is a liability on the ice, I have been watching him since junior before he was even drafted and nothing has changed. I would take Shaw over Eller any day of the week, Eller is clueless on the ice, has limited offensive capabilities and is scared of his own shadow. Yes we are getting a larger contract but a way grittier player, who has more offensive abilities, a tougher game to play against and playoff experience.

Beaulieu is a good young D man, fantastic skater but again he is like playing against a feather and we have enough of them type of players on D with several more in the minors to come up. Move him and make room on the team for McCarron, what we a need, a big power forward that will lay the body.

I have had enough of watching my Habs get pushed around on the ice, seeing team after team take cheap shots at price and our star players without a response from any of our players. It's tike we got some grit and toughness on this team!!

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<EDITED> PK has been left off every team Canada roster for a reason, Weber has been on every one for a reason. Yes PK has a ton of talent but he is a liability on the ice, I have been watching him since junior before he was even drafted and nothing has changed. I would take Shaw over Eller any day of the week, Eller is clueless on the ice, has limited offensive capabilities and is scared of his own shadow. Yes we are getting a larger contract but a way grittier player, who has more offensive abilities, a tougher game to play against and playoff experience.

Beaulieu is a good young D man, fantastic skater but again he is like playing against a feather and we have enough of them type of players on D with several more in the minors to come up. Move him and make room on the team for McCarron, what we a need, a big power forward that will lay the body.

I have had enough of watching my Habs get pushed around on the ice, seeing team after team take cheap shots at price and our star players without a response from any of our players. It's tike we got some grit and toughness on this team!!

WOW back!

Subban was a part of the Soshi Olympics team... was he not? The reasons why Subban has not been chosen when Weber was are debated by many as are many other Team Canada selections/non-selections. It is only a matter of preference that does not indicate whether one player is better than another at a specific time. You use what has become cliche to describe PK while not acknowledging any growth in his game when stats indicate otherwise according to some. Many would also disagree with your statements regarding Eller and Shaw with much being up for debate. Though, I too, think Beaulieu may be overrated in terms of him being a part of the roster... again, many would disagree.

There may be some crap (as you believe... debatable) but also very interesting discussion.

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Beaulieu is a good young D man, fantastic skater but again he is like playing against a feather and we have enough of them type of players on D with several more in the minors to come up. Move him and make room on the team for McCarron, what we a need, a big power forward that will lay the body.

Beaulieu is a D man - no issue in trading him so long as we have a capable D man to fll his spot ; you move him who is going to play D , Bartley ?

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On 27/09/2016 at 10:05 AM, Habs_Hockey_Nutz said:

WOW back!

Subban was a part of the Soshi Olympics team... was he not? The reasons why Subban has not been chosen when Weber was are debated by many as are many other Team Canada selections/non-selections. It is only a matter of preference that does not indicate whether one player is better than another at a specific time. You use what has become cliche to describe PK while not acknowledging any growth in his game when stats indicate otherwise according to some. Many would also disagree with your statements regarding Eller and Shaw with much being up for debate. Though, I too, think Beaulieu may be overrated in terms of him being a part of the roster... again, many would disagree.

There may be some crap (as you believe... debatable) but also very interesting discussion.

I am not sure about PK's stats year over year but he appeared pretty brutal last year in comparison to .his other years. I think Beaulieu may be available simply because our depth is getting much better on defence (ironically since the PK trade ) he has value in a trade. Petry would be another but his long term may scare some teams In my mind Petry is at risk if he fails to produce a career season. PK is going to need ttp be careful in Nashville. If he contiinues to make high risk plays in his own end the puck will end up in the net as he won't have Price back there to save his skin.

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Dreger reporting Edmonton has been shopping Yakupov repeatedly and was originally asking for a 3rd round pick but would now settle for less than that. He states there just isn't a market for Yak right now.

Now if you're MB, what is the risk by offering a 5th rounder to Edmonton for Yakupov. You have space to play him in your top 12, potentially try him with Galchenyuk again:

 

Pacioretty-Galchenyuk-Yakupov

Radulov-Plekanec-Gallagher

Lehkonen-Desharnais-Carr

Andrighetto-Mitchell-Shaw

as an example. And if it doesn't work out, you go back to what you have now and you move on. Low risk, high reward here IMO.

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55 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Dreger reporting Edmonton has been shopping Yakupov repeatedly and was originally asking for a 3rd round pick but would now settle for less than that. He states there just isn't a market for Yak right now.

Now if you're MB, what is the risk by offering a 5th rounder to Edmonton for Yakupov. You have space to play him in your top 12, potentially try him with Galchenyuk again:

 

Pacioretty-Galchenyuk-Yakupov

Radulov-Plekanec-Gallagher

Lehkonen-Desharnais-Carr

Andrighetto-Mitchell-Shaw

as an example. And if it doesn't work out, you go back to what you have now and you move on. Low risk, high reward here IMO.

Well, he certainly is cap friendly at $2.5 per. A former #1 pick, only 22, and "just maybe", he wasn't used properly, was used with the wrong players, or needs a change of climate. 

Yup,,, low risk, etc. 

Here's an excellent article by the Hockey Writers, on Nail, dated on Oct. 5th.

http://thehockeywriters.com/what-do-the-edmonton-oilers-want-to-do-with-nail-yakupov/

 

Maybe DD for Nail?

 

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