Jump to content
The Official Site of the Montréal Canadiens
Canadiens de Montreal

2016-17 If I Were GM...


BigTed3
 Share

Recommended Posts

17 minutes ago, ChiLla said:

The most likely candidate would obviously be Matt Duchene, yet a 1-for-1 swap would be like the Subban trade all over again, i.e. we'd get older and not necessarily better long-term.

Duchene is tangibly inferior to Galchenyuk right now, though. We lose that trade 100% right now, not even considering how much better it would be for Colorado in the following years.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, habs_93 said:

Duchene is tangibly inferior to Galchenyuk right now, though. We lose that trade 100% right now, not even considering how much better it would be for Colorado in the following years.

Yeah, poorly worded. I don't think Duchene would be an upgrade on Galchenyuk at all – not today, and certainly not tomorrow.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, ChiLla said:

Yeah, poorly worded. I don't think Duchene would be an upgrade on Galchenyuk at all – not today, and certainly not tomorrow.

I'm with East_Coast_Juggalo_13, personally. I think if we're going to trade Galchenyuk, it'll probably be for a defenceman and we'll try to replace his production with a second/third trade.

Who I'd be willing to give up depends on what the front office does next. If they're all-in for Price, I'm fine with it. Then put Sergachev on the block and get a top flight centre. If we're not going to go all the way, then start the rebuild. Going half-in is a waste of time, and a gigantic mistake. If we're rebuilding, I obviously want to keep Sergachev and play him massive amounts of first-pair minutes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, habs_93 said:

I'm with East_Coast_Juggalo_13, personally. I think if we're going to trade Galchenyuk, it'll probably be for a defenceman and we'll try to replace his production with a second/third trade.

Who I'd be willing to give up depends on what the front office does next. If they're all-in for Price, I'm fine with it. Then put Sergachev on the block and get a top flight centre. If we're not going to go all the way, then start the rebuild. Going half-in is a waste of time, and a gigantic mistake. If we're rebuilding, I obviously want to keep Sergachev and play him massive amounts of first-pair minutes.

No doubt, like you've said in another thread, we only have 2 viable options at this point: going all-in and trading players/picks/prospects for guys that improve our chances to win right now or blowing it all up and be prepared to suck for a several years. Quite frankly, I'm fine with either option. Although I don't want MB in charge if we're going for a rebuild, he has proven repeatedly to be a rather poor judge of talent.

Yeah, maybe swapping Galchenyuk for a Dman would yield better returns. I also think we need to make a decision regarding Beaulieu rather sooner than later. Rotating him between the 3rd pairing and the press box isn't going to help his development and I'm honestly sick and tired of trading assets away for nothing. Either we should use him consistently and live with his mistakes, or we include him in a trade with another roster player and picks to acquire a mobile LHD capable of logging big minutes with Weber.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

http://www.gohabsgo.com/2017/04/23/the-hockey-news-writer-proposes-carey-price-trade/

Journalist Ken Campbell of The Hockey News has made the habit of making controversial statements and he made another crazy one over the past few hours regarding the Montreal Canadiens.

Campbell said that if he was the Dallas Stars' GM, he would propose sending the Canadiens Tyler Seguin, Jamie Oleksiak and Kari Lehtonen for Carey Price.

This trade would solve two big problems for the Habs by bringing in a real #1 center and bringing another great depth defenseman like Jordie Benn, but Marc Bergevin would get rid of his franchise goalie who is considered the best hockey player in the world for probably the most overpaid goalie in the NHL.

This idea may sound crazy at first, but like CTV and TSN690's Sean Coleman mentioned earlier today that Habs fans had called all morning on the radio and they ALL wanted Bergevin to trade Price.

Ken Campbell's Tweet has created a lot of talk over the past few hours on social media, Tyler Seguin has collected a minimum of 72 points in his last 4 seasons and it would be the perfect center to complete Max Pacioretty.

Would you do this trade?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

52 minutes ago, manquant said:

Campbell said that if he was the Dallas Stars' GM, he would propose sending the Canadiens Tyler Seguin, Jamie Oleksiak and Kari Lehtonen for Carey Price.

...

Would you do this trade?

I don't think Dallas does, though. And I'm not entirely sure CJ and Tyler want to see each other behind the same bench again. :lol:

In all seriousness, trading Price would be extremely painful, but there are scenarios where it would be to the team's benefit. I have zero interest in Oleksiak, though. Yet another "big defenceman" that isn't actually particularly good. The only defenceman I'd want from Dallas is John Klingberg, but good luck on that. And there's no way an organization that traded P.K. Subban is going to trade for Tyler Seguin.

I'd do Price + Weber for Benn + Klingberg + Lehtonen, I could just never see it happening for a variety of reasons.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, habs_93 said:

I don't think Dallas does, though. And I'm not entirely sure CJ and Tyler want to see each other behind the same bench again. :lol:

In all seriousness, trading Price would be extremely painful, but there are scenarios where it would be to the team's benefit. I have zero interest in Oleksiak, though. Yet another "big defenceman" that isn't actually particularly good. The only defenceman I'd want from Dallas is John Klingberg, but good luck on that. And there's no way an organization that traded P.K. Subban is going to trade for Tyler Seguin.

I'd do Price + Weber for Benn + Klingberg + Lehtonen, I could just never see it happening for a variety of reasons.

Yeah, Price is easily the most difficult player to consider trading.  On the one hand, you know you could ask (and most likely get) a king's ransom for him - but on the other, as a goalie, its very difficult to know what his best before date is.  It would be one thing to trade him & see him give 3 - 4 more elite years but quite another if you traded him away & he won the next 9 vezina trophies.

I think the deal would have to be absolutely lights out incredibly ridiculously good for me to even consider moving price. Pretty near anyone else is avaliable depending upon what route we choose to go, but like 93 and others have said;  Either go all in, or rebuild.  Painting the crumbling foundation wont help one bit. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, maas_art said:

Yeah, Price is easily the most difficult player to consider trading.  On the one hand, you know you could ask (and most likely get) a king's ransom for him - but on the other, as a goalie, its very difficult to know what his best before date is.  It would be one thing to trade him & see him give 3 - 4 more elite years but quite another if you traded him away & he won the next 9 vezina trophies.

I think the deal would have to be absolutely lights out incredibly ridiculously good for me to even consider moving price
. Pretty near anyone else is avaliable depending upon what route we choose to go, but like 93 and others have said;  Either go all in, or rebuild.  Painting the crumbling foundation wont help one bit. 

Oh, absolutely. I'm not eager to trade him, I'm just open to it in a sober and serious fashion if the team decides to truly go all-in on either winning next season or rebuilding. I just don't know if we can properly bottom out with Carey, even if he was willing to spend 3-4 seasons as a shooter tutor behind an incredibly young team while it develops into something which could compete again.

Does anyone have any thoughts on when Carey's trade value would be higher: in this offseason, or before the deadline next season?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, maas_art said:

Yeah, Price is easily the most difficult player to consider trading.  On the one hand, you know you could ask (and most likely get) a king's ransom for him - but on the other, as a goalie, its very difficult to know what his best before date is.  It would be one thing to trade him & see him give 3 - 4 more elite years but quite another if you traded him away & he won the next 9 vezina trophies.

I think the deal would have to be absolutely lights out incredibly ridiculously good for me to even consider moving price. Pretty near anyone else is avaliable depending upon what route we choose to go, but like 93 and others have said;  Either go all in, or rebuild.  Painting the crumbling foundation wont help one bit. 

The tough part is that the whole strategy kind of revolves around what we do with Price. If we go all in to win then Price probably needs to be part of that. If we blow it up ... by all means trade him but then what we get back in such a trade has to be for future prospects and picks ... not established stars. If we go all in to win I think we need him ... no? The other issue which factors is what does it cost to keep him? Lundquist is the highest paid goalie at $8.5MM. Rask and Rinne are next at $7MM cap hit ... then Carey at $6.5MM. I don't believe with the Cap at $73MM that anyone will pay a goalie more than 10% of their cap. We also have an advantage in being able to go to 8 years term as the current team on his extension. I believe offering the full 8 years for $56MM ($7MM cap hit) gets it done with say $16MM in bonus money included over a couple of installments and base of $5MM per annum. Carey gets good value front ended and is 38 at the end of his contract, not outrageous for a goaltender. I would try and get a modified no move clause with him where he controls the group of teams he can be moved to in a trade scenario. If he demands substantively more than that cap hit, I think he has to be moved this offseason and as soon as possible so potential trading partners can put their proposals together.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, habs_93 said:

Oh, absolutely. I'm not eager to trade him, I'm just open to it in a sober and serious fashion if the team decides to truly go all-in on either winning next season or rebuilding. I just don't know if we can properly bottom out with Carey, even if he was willing to spend 3-4 seasons as a shooter tutor behind an incredibly young team while it develops into something which could compete again.

Does anyone have any thoughts on when Carey's trade value would be higher: in this offseason, or before the deadline next season?

I think Carey's trade value diminishes every second past this July 1st upcoming and if we wait until the deadline next season we get completely screwed .........plus .... what if the unlikely occurs and we are again a playoff contender? Are you likely to trade your #1 goaltender in the midst of a playoff race where your team is in contention, regardless if you have a legit shot at the Cup? And if the team sucks and is out of playoff range, what will his trade value be at that point? Then what happens ..... you have lost all your leverage and either you sign him to a ridiculous extension package in his favour or he walks in free agency and the franchise gets zip in return.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I liked Carey's comments today. Sure, one could argue that he wasn't going to outright say he didn't want to come back and that most guys will announce publicly that they want to stay if the conditions are right, but at least he said it. What I also appreciated from Carey was that he said he wanted to make the pieces fit to make sure the team could be a contender. Now I don't really know what that means, but I'm wondering if that means Price is willing to take more/max term in exchange for taking a lower cap hit, for example. Maybe he's willing to go 7.5M x 8 years rather than 10M x 6 years... will Price be gold for 8 years? No. But he'll probably be very good for another 4-5 years and to me, there's no question that it's worth giving him 7-8 years if he's going to be all-star caliber for 4-5 of them and especially if you can bring the cap hit down a bit that way. It's just not that simple to replace him. Price also indicated he was willing to discuss contract as of July 1st, he didn't give one of those vague "let's wait until the season's over and then we'll address it." So yes, if he's hesitant to re-sign, then you look at trading him. But Price's comments today seemed fairly sincere, and he really does seem to appreciate playing with Weber and having Julien as a coach.

So who do you move? I think it's very unlikely we get fair value for Galchenyuk on the trade market. I think we've diminished his value by the run around we've given him, so there's really no point in dealing him unless we can really get a player of equal youth and talent in addition to addressing a positional need. So if you can get a #1 D man or a true #1 center, then maybe you consider it. But by that, I wonder more about trading him for an Ekblad, a Seth Jones, a Werenski, a Huberdeau, a Drouin, a Draisaitl, a Barkov, a MacKinnon, or so on. There has to be something of equal potential coming back, and it can't be a piece where we age without making a significant upgrade, the way the Weber trade happened. Colorado may want to deal Duchene, and I'd be happy to have him, but I'd be more willing to offer them something like Gallagher + Beaulieu. If they want Galchenyuk, then I'd be asking for MacKinnon and nothing less. If they want to think about a Galchenyuk for MacKinnon swap, I'd listen. If they want to think about Galchenyuk, Gallagher, and Beaulieu for MacKinnon and Duchene, I'd listen. But don't go dealing away Galchenyuk from a position of weakness just to find a quick patch and don't do it to find a two-way center.

The Habs do need to find a way to move on from at least one of Plekanec or Emelin. Maybe Edmonton for Emelin, maybe Phoenix or Vancouver or Buffalo or Philly. But that has to be something on MB's agenda. If the team isn't planning on protecting Beaulieu, then trading him has to happen before the ED. I would also explore what kind of returns are out there for Shaw or Byron because I think both have the propensity to see their value drop, the former because he's on a long contract and is only getting older and the latter because I don't think he'll be able to repeat the high shooting percentage he posted this year. I'd also explore what is out there for Pacioretty and especially Weber. I wouldn't trade Pacioretty because of his playoff failure or because I think he's not up to snuff; he's an elite scorer on a great contract. I would look at dealing him IF we can turn him into an equally great centerman or if we can turn him into two top 6 players to fill a hole. It's not a trade I'm eager to make, just one that a good GM will explore to see what his options are for fixing the center position. If you can deal Pacioretty plus another part for say Tavares, then you leave Galchenyuk and Lehkonen on your LW and that's that. And as for Weber, I've gone over the value in looking to move him before he declines any further. He's coming off a good year on paper in terms of goal production and ice time and plus/minus and team success. So even though some of those stats lack value, I'd milk that with other GM's who still see him as being elite. Again, it's not a trade we're backed into making, but it should be one we consider to free up cap space down the line and perhaps get more youthful to open our Cup window a little wider, especially if we can get Price re-signed past next season. Lots of moving parts here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

. What I also appreciated from Carey was that he said he wanted to make the pieces fit to make sure the team could be a contender. Now I don't really know what that means,

 

I think it could mean there could be some players who need to go and MB needs to bring in a goal scorer.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

So who do you move? I think it's very unlikely we get fair value for Galchenyuk on the trade market. I think we've diminished his value by the run around we've given him, so there's really no point in dealing him unless we can really get a player of equal youth and talent in addition to addressing a positional need. So if you can get a #1 D man or a true #1 center, then maybe you consider it. But by that, I wonder more about trading him for an Ekblad, a Seth Jones, a Werenski, a Huberdeau, a Drouin, a Draisaitl, a Barkov, a MacKinnon, or so on. There has to be something of equal potential coming back, and it can't be a piece where we age without making a significant upgrade, the way the Weber trade happened. Colorado may want to deal Duchene, and I'd be happy to have him, but I'd be more willing to offer them something like Gallagher + Beaulieu. If they want Galchenyuk, then I'd be asking for MacKinnon and nothing less. If they want to think about a Galchenyuk for MacKinnon swap, I'd listen. If they want to think about Galchenyuk, Gallagher, and Beaulieu for MacKinnon and Duchene, I'd listen. But don't go dealing away Galchenyuk from a position of weakness just to find a quick patch and don't do it to find a two-way center.

Not that his word means much, but MB has made it very clear during his presser that he's not going to trade Carey Price for that elusive #1 center. And even though he hasn't always spoken the truth in the past, I'm inclined to believe him. Like you Ted, I also really liked what Carey had to say yesterday. He definitely seems to enjoy playing in Montreal, which – based on interviews when he was younger – wasn't always the case. Not sure if he's truly going to accept longer term for a lower AAV, but there's hope at least because he understands what it'll take to make this team better. I definitely wouldn't hesitate signing him to an 8-year deal if it means a lower Cap hit, unlike Andrew Shaw he's the type of player that you want to sign long-term.

Also agreed on Galchenyuk, I wouldn't trade him just for the sake of it because there's just no way we'd get fair value now after moving him up and down the lineup. Considering what Carey, Julien, Bergevin and especially Weber had to say about him yesterday and how strong he started the season, I think there's still hope that he can grow into our #1 center. It's clear that he's no Crosby, McDavid or Matthews, but he can be a difference maker nonetheless and that's still a very rare quality in this league. Having a good, structured camp and preseason under Julien may well do wonders for him.

Beaulieu's future doesn't look bright, however. I found his comments rather disturbing yesterday, talking about what a great individual year he had, reaching 30 points and playing 20 minutes a night – right after the team was eliminated and him being a healthy scratch in the most important game of the season. MB said something about Beau being at a crossroads and that having 6 solid games followed by 12 rather poor games wasn't going to cut it (I'm paraphrasing). We have some valuable draft picks, prospects and young roster players that we could trade in combination with Beau to acquire an upgrade. Sergachev seems to have way more upside anyway, so losing Beau certainly wouldn't be the end of the world. They're apparently still very high on the kid, so I'm wondering if we could actually afford to trade both Emelin and Beaulieu and start the year with Sergachev/Davidson/Benn on the third pairing.

Either way, barring a major trade that would probably create other holes in the lineup, our scoring woes won't be fixed this offseason. I can see MB picking up guys like Iginla, Marleau or Stafford on the UFA market but clearly none of them is going to put us over the top. We'll probably end up overpaying for Martin Hanzal instead. Because you know, size and grit and all that.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have a feeling - we shall see - that the oiler's playoffs will come to an end some time in the next round or two because of defensive shortcomings.  If thats the case I think we should be immediately onto the phone with them to talk about how we can help them out with a guy like Weber.

I think Edmonton would absolutely jump at "Chris Pronger Lite" and would offer us one of their centres not named McDavid (draisaitl?) a defenseman (Nurse?) and maybe one more prospect or pick.   

This would allow us to shuffle around our top 6 and defensive corps to look something like this:

Pacioretty - Draisatl - Radulov (Hopefully?)
Lehkonen - Galchenyuk - Gallagher


Nurse - Petry
Markov - Benn
 

I think thats a better top 6 and top 4 than we have now & it allows us to play guys like Danault and Plekanec in our bottom 6 where they are much better suited. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, maas_art said:

I have a feeling - we shall see - that the oiler's playoffs will come to an end some time in the next round or two because of defensive shortcomings.  If thats the case I think we should be immediately onto the phone with them to talk about how we can help them out with a guy like Weber.

I think Edmonton would absolutely jump at "Chris Pronger Lite" and would offer us one of their centres not named McDavid (draisaitl?) a defenseman (Nurse?) and maybe one more prospect or pick.   

This would allow us to shuffle around our top 6 and defensive corps to look something like this:

Pacioretty - Draisatl - Radulov (Hopefully?)
Lehkonen - Galchenyuk - Gallagher


Nurse - Petry
Markov - Benn
 

I think thats a better top 6 and top 4 than we have now & it allows us to play guys like Danault and Plekanec in our bottom 6 where they are much better suited. 

Love your thought however Draisatl is a 21 years old point a game budding super star and no way we get our mitts on him for anyone. If I am Edmonton I am not even sure I would trade him even up for Price.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, eldag said:

Love your thought however Draisatl is a 21 years old point a game budding super star and no way we get our mitts on him for anyone. If I am Edmonton I am not even sure I would trade him even up for Price.

Thing is though, they have McDavid. I think they know they are going to have to sacrifice one of Draisatl, RNH or Eberle and while it would be easier to move one of the latter two, your return will not be nearly as great with either.   

Despite what the advanced stats might say, most around the league still consider Weber at top flight defensman. Just read the articles on our playoff demise - nearly every single one mentioned Shea's "Monster series."  The narrative still follows him and honestly, i think you could probably move him this summer for more than he was worth last summer because his playoffs were perceived as being much better this year than last.

Plus there's always the Peter Chiarelli factor ;)

Im sure its moot though.  I fully expect the Molsons and BOG to do nothing, meaning MB will stay in his job & he wont turn around & trade Weber after one year. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Thing is though, they have McDavid. I think they know they are going to have to sacrifice one of Draisatl, RNH or Eberle and while it would be easier to move one of the latter two, your return will not be nearly as great with either.   

Despite what the advanced stats might say, most around the league still consider Weber at top flight defensman. Just read the articles on our playoff demise - nearly every single one mentioned Shea's "Monster series."  The narrative still follows him and honestly, i think you could probably move him this summer for more than he was worth last summer because his playoffs were perceived as being much better this year than last.

Plus there's always the Peter Chiarelli factor ;)

Im sure its moot though.  I fully expect the Molsons and BOG to do nothing, meaning MB will stay in his job & he wont turn around & trade Weber after one year. 

 

If MB traded Weber this year, then he would (in my eyes) be admitting the trade for Weber was a mistake.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Thing is though, they have McDavid. I think they know they are going to have to sacrifice one of Draisatl, RNH or Eberle and while it would be easier to move one of the latter two, your return will not be nearly as great with either.   

Despite what the advanced stats might say, most around the league still consider Weber at top flight defensman. Just read the articles on our playoff demise - nearly every single one mentioned Shea's "Monster series."  The narrative still follows him and honestly, i think you could probably move him this summer for more than he was worth last summer because his playoffs were perceived as being much better this year than last.

Plus there's always the Peter Chiarelli factor ;)

Im sure its moot though.  I fully expect the Molsons and BOG to do nothing, meaning MB will stay in his job & he wont turn around & trade Weber after one year. 

 

You are making me cry ..........      :6351:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, kinot-2 said:

If MB traded Weber this year, then he would (in my eyes) be admitting the trade for Weber was a mistake.

Totally. But a good GM - a good anything, really - sometimes has to make tough moves and man up and say they were wrong.   We all make mistakes. Its how you deal with those mistakes that matter.

Besides, right now, 2017, im not convinced we could get a lot less for Weber than we could for PK last year so why not make the correct move now, upgrade down the middle & cut our losses. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe it's time to re-evaluate our scouting system. One would think we should have had some quality AHL'ers who could have contributed throughout the season and the playoffs but it looks like the cupboard is bare. It seems every team I watch has maybe 2 or 3 and sometimes 4 young players in their lineup making a big contibution. Maybe it's time to start projecting and selecting players who WILL BE quality NHL'ers instead of players who are 'good' in junior. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, maas_art said:

Totally. But a good GM - a good anything, really - sometimes has to make tough moves and man up and say they were wrong.   We all make mistakes. Its how you deal with those mistakes that matter.

Well...

22 minutes ago, habs1952 said:

Maybe it's time to re-evaluate our scouting system. One would think we should have had some quality AHL'ers who could have contributed throughout the season and the playoffs but it looks like the cupboard is bare. It seems every team I watch has maybe 2 or 3 and sometimes 4 young players in their lineup making a big contibution. Maybe it's time to start projecting and selecting players who WILL BE quality NHL'ers instead of players who are 'good' in junior. 

I'm not sure if we can tell whether that's on scouting, stubbornness in the front office, or the hideous AHL coaching we've allowed to go on for years and year. But you're not wrong, though. This organization has no excuse for not having one of if not the best amateur scouting departments in the league.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

46 minutes ago, habs1952 said:

Maybe it's time to re-evaluate our scouting system. One would think we should have had some quality AHL'ers who could have contributed throughout the season and the playoffs but it looks like the cupboard is bare. It seems every team I watch has maybe 2 or 3 and sometimes 4 young players in their lineup making a big contibution. Maybe it's time to start projecting and selecting players who WILL BE quality NHL'ers instead of players who are 'good' in junior. 

I think the cupboard is bare because the coaching staff down there is a huge downgrade from what "should" be there. SL and Dufrene (sp?), were defensive defensemen, so how would they know how to teach forwards?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, kinot-2 said:

I think the cupboard is bare because the coaching staff down there is a huge downgrade from what "should" be there. SL and Dufrene (sp?), were defensive defensemen, so how would they know how to teach forwards?

There's plenty of good past defensive defensemen who are good overall coaches (Julien, Quenneville, Vignault) and i think there may be more defensmen as coaches than other positions actually (Carlysle, Robinson were norris winners even)  but the bottom line is that they were good coaches (well maybe not Carslyle) first, regardless of their position. Im not convinced there's anyone down on the farm thats a good coach. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...