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2016-17 If I Were GM...


BigTed3
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3 hours ago, maas_art said:

^^^ your forward lines are intriguing although im not sure they're exactly what id be going for but I think your blueline would have some major concerns.  Especially going forward.  IMHO MB absolutely must NOT trade away Sergachev unless we are getting back a young defensman in return. Our blueline prospects are slim at best and he's clearly on a different level from most of them.

I also dont agree with your hudon + montoya so that LV takes Emelin. Yes it would be nice to get rid of Emmy's contract but losing Hudon before he's even had a chance to show what he can do in the NHl would be very bad imho.  Maybe he never pans out but i can ttoally see him becoming a Craig Conroy: a guy we gave up on for no reason who goes on to have 40 - 50 point 2 way seasons for 10 years.  In fact, the parallels between conroy and hudon are eerily similar. Lets hope we dont 'give' this one away. 

 

If MB thinks that Galchenuyk is a LWer then we have two top centers to go after...Obviously Plekanec isn't the solution and Danault is a stop gap. Thats why the Duchene proposal. I agree its awful to trade Sergachev away, but as i posted above, its contending now time, for various reasons. Sure Sergachev might be a gem but you have to take the gamble or rebuild. There is no C UFA market this year, and the only other option i see is convinsing Shipachov to sign, but thats a long shot and uncertain, production wise....As for the D prospects in our pipeline, i really like Juulsen, and i think Lernout has made big strides this year, although i have a feeling that our next top talent is a guy called Mete. We will see how things unfold...

Hudon...Did he deserve a chance? Absolutely...Is he a NHL caliber player? It remains to be proven. In all honesty though, i dont see him being better than Andrighetto, and we all saw how that panned out. Can he play center? I think he plays LW better and we already have a longjam there. Non less, the worst thing is to give away a prospect that blossoms elsewhere. Take away Hudon and maybe add Carr to my proposal. Vegas would probably do this trade also because the concept is they take one of the most reliable NHL G backup, without needing to burn an expansion selection from another team. Add to this that Emelin will truly help in a very physical division and has only one year left to his contract. Win, win situation...

PS.1  Quite suprised no comments at the offersheet scenario. I thought there would be negativity twards my opinion, since its fairly unlikely and extremely rare, to see such GMs actions. I still cant figure out why...

PS.2  I was a regular poster here a couple of years ago. It used to be fun...the sharing, debating, planning...but due to various reasons its my first post for about two years now...Where did everybody go? It used to be a crowded place here and now only one reply? Sad...Lets bring life to the FORUM...

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4 hours ago, maas_art said:

^^^ your forward lines are intriguing although im not sure they're exactly what id be going for but I think your blueline would have some major concerns.  Especially going forward.  IMHO MB absolutely must NOT trade away Sergachev unless we are getting back a young defensman in return. Our blueline prospects are slim at best and he's clearly on a different level from most of them.

I also dont agree with your hudon + montoya so that LV takes Emelin. Yes it would be nice to get rid of Emmy's contract but losing Hudon before he's even had a chance to show what he can do in the NHl would be very bad imho.  Maybe he never pans out but i can ttoally see him becoming a Craig Conroy: a guy we gave up on for no reason who goes on to have 40 - 50 point 2 way seasons for 10 years.  In fact, the parallels between conroy and hudon are eerily similar. Lets hope we dont 'give' this one away. 

 

Hudon's another one of those kids I do not understand how he isn't a regular on an offensive starved.  Which does he lack?  Grit or character? :5785:

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1 hour ago, East_Coast_Juggalo_13 said:

Hudon's another one of those kids I do not understand how he isn't a regular on an offensive starved.  Which does he lack?  Grit or character? :5785:

Size?

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2 hours ago, grecohab said:

 

PS.2  I was a regular poster here a couple of years ago. It used to be fun...the sharing, debating, planning...but due to various reasons its my first post for about two years now...Where did everybody go? It used to be a crowded place here and now only one reply? Sad...Lets bring life to the FORUM...

The offer sheet thing is a treacherous road to undertake and almost always fails, simply because the players team has the right to match any offer. All it does is create bad feelings among teams  and  hamper possible future transactions. It forces teams to pay a guy they want to retain too much money and likely opens up the chance at retaliation down the road. These GM's are a tight knit group and i'm 100 % certain there is some collusion involved.

As for your other point,,, numbers are down simply because of all the other social media sites that have sprung up. IMO this is still the best place to get the latest on our Habs and the ideal place to discuss team issues. To each his own. Their loss.:D

Welcome back BTW. All the good posters eventually find their way back.:4322:

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1 hour ago, ChiLla said:

So Shipachyov, coming off a career season with 76 points in 50 KHL games, just signed with the Vegas Knights, eh? Too bad, I really think we could have used a scoring center.

Look, i know nothing about Shipachyov, so this is totally guessing here but when a guy - who could basically pick any team in the NHL - decides to go to  an expansion team which just happens to be in Sin-City... makes you think he might be interested in some of the extracurricular activities. That doesnt necessarily make him a liability but I dont think he would have done well in the Montreal hotseat. He'd be crucified the first time he missed curfew or showed up to practice late etc. 

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2 hours ago, maas_art said:

Look, i know nothing about Shipachyov, so this is totally guessing here but when a guy - who could basically pick any team in the NHL - decides to go to  an expansion team which just happens to be in Sin-City... makes you think he might be interested in some of the extracurricular activities. That doesnt necessarily make him a liability but I dont think he would have done well in the Montreal hotseat. He'd be crucified the first time he missed curfew or showed up to practice late etc. 

Maybe he figures he's got a better chance of playing in the NHL by signing with Vegas.

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Just a rare thought i want to share...

What if we put McCarron on D?

I think he can be a very good stay at home defensemen, something like Chara...maybe he can develop, who knows?

I know its hard to adjust since he probably havent ever played at D but why not give him that chance...it would take some major summer adjusts, non less...

thoughts?

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I'm just not sure why we want a "stay at home defenceman". If we're so hard up for defence that we're considering dressing McCarron for it, we're so out of it that he should be playing top 6 minutes to see what kind of forward he could be.

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^^^ yeah, he's already had to adjust from RW to Centre... i think the last thing Big Mac needs with regards to his development is a switch to D.  Defense is a position that takes a while to develop (thus defensmen hitting their prime later than forwards) so i cant imagine Mac would adjust any time soon.



Really interesting article here -

The author (Davey Angels) makes an interesting case to go 'all in' right now - sign Radulov to a crazy contact if need be - because within a couple of years we'll need to blow up this team anyway.  His arguement (and he makes a compelling one) is that rather than blowing up right now, why not try to make the most of what we have, deal away youth for quality vets if we need to, but actually GO ALL IN - none of this "well make it to the playoffs & see what happens stuff."  

One of the interesting things he suggest is that you dont worry about stupid contracts right now.  If its going to take 8 year deals to sign Radulov and Price, do it.  If we blow up the team in 3 - 4 years maybe you can trade them, but if not, those huge contracts will be inconsequential with all the EL contracts we'll have on the books.   Its an interesting way of looking at things. 

 

I guess we'll see what MB does.  I am not sure if he has the guts to make those sorts of moves but its the best written article ive seen that outlines this thinking. 

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1 hour ago, HabsAlways said:

Do you think the Preds would take Weber back for Subban? :(

Fat chance. Don't think there's a team out there who would trade a defenceman as good as Subban for an older, less mobile, past-his-prime D man like Weber. Well, maybe one team...

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21 hours ago, maas_art said:

^^^ yeah, he's already had to adjust from RW to Centre... i think the last thing Big Mac needs with regards to his development is a switch to D.  Defense is a position that takes a while to develop (thus defensmen hitting their prime later than forwards) so i cant imagine Mac would adjust any time soon.



Really interesting article here -

The author (Davey Angels) makes an interesting case to go 'all in' right now - sign Radulov to a crazy contact if need be - because within a couple of years we'll need to blow up this team anyway.  His arguement (and he makes a compelling one) is that rather than blowing up right now, why not try to make the most of what we have, deal away youth for quality vets if we need to, but actually GO ALL IN - none of this "well make it to the playoffs & see what happens stuff."  

One of the interesting things he suggest is that you dont worry about stupid contracts right now.  If its going to take 8 year deals to sign Radulov and Price, do it.  If we blow up the team in 3 - 4 years maybe you can trade them, but if not, those huge contracts will be inconsequential with all the EL contracts we'll have on the books.   Its an interesting way of looking at things. 

 

I guess we'll see what MB does.  I am not sure if he has the guts to make those sorts of moves but its the best written article ive seen that outlines this thinking. 

i read this and here is my very simple analysis.....we are going to use our entire cap just to keep this mediocre team together. absolutely grotesque.

the thinking here is we have some sort of contending team....WE DONT

 

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24 minutes ago, jeff33 said:

i read this and here is my very simple analysis.....we are going to use our entire cap just to keep this mediocre team together. absolutely grotesque.

the thinking here is we have some sort of contending team....WE DONT

 

Come on , we're one player Away from being a legitIimAte contender

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22 hours ago, Regis22 said:

Come on , we're one player Away from being a legitIimAte contender

right. all we need to do is add scottie upshall, and our grit will be just too much for anyone to handle.

we are about 6 players away from being a contender. every single guy on this roster should be on the market, including price.

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On 5/6/2017 at 11:25 AM, BigTed3 said:

Fat chance. Don't think there's a team out there who would trade a defenceman as good as Subban for an older, less mobile, past-his-prime D man like Weber. Well, maybe one team...

I bet you there are a few.  Not many but a handful of other GMs who would think like Bergevin.  

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8 hours ago, habs1952 said:

I'm wondering why the Preds would trade him(Weber) in the first place if he is so great.

You could say that about any trade though.  Each team always thinks they are getting the better player - or at least the better suited player - in the deal. 

According to both Poile and Bergevin when the Preds asked about PK and Bergevin countered with Weber it took them (the preds) several days to agree. they werent keen on losing him although I am sure they're more than happy right now. 

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18 hours ago, maas_art said:

You could say that about any trade though.  Each team always thinks they are getting the better player - or at least the better suited player - in the deal. 

According to both Poile and Bergevin when the Preds asked about PK and Bergevin countered with Weber it took them (the preds) several days to agree. they werent keen on losing him although I am sure they're more than happy right now. 

LOL....they were dumbstruck!!!

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23 hours ago, maas_art said:

I bet you there are a few.  Not many but a handful of other GMs who would think like Bergevin.  

I think there are teams that would gladly take Weber and pay for him. But do I think there's a team that would move a D man the caliber of Subban to make that happen? Not sure there is. Who are the D men who are as skilled as Subban AND in the same age range (i.e. a few years younger than Weber)?

- Karlsson

- Hedman

- Josi

- Doughty

- Maybe Pietrangelo or Ekman-Larsson if you want to push who should be included with the group above.

I don't see Ott, TB, Nas, or LA parting with any of those players straight up for Weber. Now maybe if you start to compare Weber to guys more in his age range, like Letang or Burns or Keith or Suter, maybe then you'd get a team to swap one-for-one. But this second group of players, even though they're all still really good, are guys who are 3-5 years older, and that's a big deal in the NHL. So maybe we could swap Weber for one of those guys, but then that doesn't really help us, because we've already traded away the asset we had in that first, more valuable grouping.

I think the only way to move Weber and make it worthwhile is to either trade him for a forward to a team looking to improve its D and willing to give up a different type of asset or else to trade him for a D man not quite in his prime yet. I don't think you're going to get a Josi or Hedman or Doughty, who are dominant now (whereby Weber is not a current upgrade nor an upgrade for the future), but you might be able to swing him for a younger guy like Seth Jones or Werenski or a package that includes Nurse or Klefbom or something like that. I think you pitch to a team like Edm or Clb that might think they're close to being elite that they can win now and that Weber gives them better odds of that than a younger player. I don't see us pitching that same idea to a team that has a guy who's already elite.

And therein lies the fault with Bergevin: he can't argue he made his team better now. He can't argue he made his team better for the future. He can't argue that he traded one superstar for multiple assets to fill voids. He can't argue that he traded a player at one position for a bigger need at another position. And he can no longer argue that Subban is preventing teams from winning, because both the Habs and Preds seem to be having more success with Subban than without him. So all that's left is to conclude (which many of us knew the day it was done) that this was just an awful awful trade and one that sets this franchise back for years.

 

 

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On 8.5.2017 at 3:39 AM, maas_art said:

I bet you there are a few.  Not many but a handful of other GMs who would think like Bergevin.  

As long as there are guys like Jack Todd, I'm not concerned at all...

"P.K. Subban was in front of the Nashville net early in Sunday’s Game 6 against St. Louis, doing not much of anything except screening goaltender Pekka Rinne when the Blues scored to take a 1-0 lead.

That happened maybe 90 seconds after Subban wound up for that big slap shot in the Blues end, only to have it swallowed up in a heap of bodies.

Both plays, to objective fans of the Montreal Canadiens, would be depressingly familiar. Subban does have a tendency to wander without any specific purpose in the defensive zone and to become overly infatuated with his own shot when his team is trying to score."

[...]

"But how Subban and Nashville fare in the post-season has nothing to do with the price of tea in China. This was a deal that had to be made and anyone who sees the Man Mountain in front of Carey Price and thinks the Canadiens are worse off having Weber in town is flat out of his mind."

Full article here:

http://montrealgazette.com/sports/jack-todd-habs-didnt-get-stiffed-with-subban-trade-that-had-to-be-made

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If I was to suddenly become the Gm of this team first thing I would do is get rid of the staff in the minors and find a good team to develop the players we have coming up through the system. next I would overhaul my drafting priorities I think Timmins is quite good at finding talent I just don't think we are looking for the right stuff and when we get players we don't develop them right. I would force my coaching staff to alot enough games during the year to evaluate the younger players so they are ready and able to perform when they are called up. I would drop several of our so called depth players to make room for the kids, if we feel we are able to make a serious run and we need some depth it is always easy to get at the deadline. I would find ways to move Emelin, and Pleks to free up cap to sign Rads for sure and if I had to move Beau and Chucky to get something great for the top two lines I would just get it done if that is the price to pay to get a true top 3 to top 6 center who can get the job done now I would do it. I would also try to find at least one more quality forward either in the KHL as we did with Rads or if we have to in free agency. do what we can to win now because in a couple of years we are probably going to have sell.

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16 minutes ago, ramcharger440 said:

If I was to suddenly become the Gm of this team first thing I would do is get rid of the staff in the minors and find a good team to develop the players we have coming up through the system. next I would overhaul my drafting priorities I think Timmins is quite good at finding talent I just don't think we are looking for the right stuff and when we get players we don't develop them right. I would force my coaching staff to alot enough games during the year to evaluate the younger players so they are ready and able to perform when they are called up. I would drop several of our so called depth players to make room for the kids, if we feel we are able to make a serious run and we need some depth it is always easy to get at the deadline. I would find ways to move Emelin, and Pleks to free up cap to sign Rads for sure and if I had to move Beau and Chucky to get something great for the top two lines I would just get it done if that is the price to pay to get a true top 3 to top 6 center who can get the job done now I would do it. I would also try to find at least one more quality forward either in the KHL as we did with Rads or if we have to in free agency. do what we can to win now because in a couple of years we are probably going to have sell.

This is an interesting list & im particularly intrigued by the bolded part.

Timmins has said in the past that he and his staff assemble a list of their choices & explain to Management risk vs reward.  For example: This player is almost certainly a sure thing NHL player but probably not more than a 3rd liner.  That player is a high risk, high reward - he could be a 1st liner or he could flame out & never make the bigs.

More often than not the team goes with the safe bets.  Thats why we end up with guys like Tinordi, Chipchura, Fischer etc.  The thing is, you can acquire 3rd and 4th liners pretty easily in today's nhl.  You can trade for 3rd pairing defensmen.  You almost never can trade for top 6 forwards or top 4 dmen without giving up quality yourself.

I would almost be inclined to try a few years of "high risk, high reward" drafting.  Its not like its going to set us back any.   Detriot built a dynasty on this - drafting guys who other teams raised eyebrows about "you're drafting him... .now?"    Heck, even our best draft pick in the last 15 years  (price) was picked way higher than the 'experts' expected because Gainey & co knew there was a huge risk... but potentially a massive reward if he worked out.

 

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