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Subban Traded For Weber


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since we have drifted the convo to include captain patch, as many of you know, i have been campaigning for us to trade him for most of last season.

for the record, i wanted it because i think hes enormously overrated and not a legit star player and all indications are we see him as a star player who is going to get extended to a sweetheart deal.

as it pertains to this subban thing, i see patch more than ever as part of the privelege squad aka the foxhole crew, and when your in that foxhole you sure like life on the habs of today because no matter what you do you will get the special treatment.

do i think he is part of the reason, yup. i think when your on a team where coach plays favourites, it creates a rift. patch was on the happy side, p.k on the other ( as well as eller which has gotten lost in the shuffle here, another enormous mistake IMO)

i guess to make my point without just these random tidbits of opinion, when theres a regime in place, and certain players are disrupting it, it is factual to say they are a disruptive element. however , the issue deepens when you want to look objectively at who is in fact worth their salt. this management team and their favourites are all going nowhere fast, all together. we just shipped out our whipping boys , but the guys holding the whips are demonstrably wrong and the guys they like are the ones they are wrong about

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`But the instant reaction among Habs faithful was one of overwhelmed perplexity and frustration. Subban wasn't a prototypical hockey player because he was something new, and something the Montreal Canadiens had sorely lacked in a skater for decades: an electrifying superstar, one that made fans hold their breath with every rush up the ice.


What's puzzling about the move isn't that Montreal's current management group executed it. If anything, it's what we've come to expect from a team that has continuously emphasized a valuation of defence over offence, and team play over individual effort. Its perceived desire for character over personality.


It's not unfathomable that this trade might seem beneficial for the Canadiens in the extreme short term — say, this season and possibly even the next. But it's hard to imagine the Canadiens making up for that loss of mobility on the blue line with Weber at the back end.


In his initial press release, Marc Bergevin observed that Weber's power-play goal-scoring and leadership were key components of his game that saw Montreal bring him in. But that's unfairly placing the blame for the failing power play on Subban, when the system in place severely limited one of the best offence-driving players — not defencemen,players — in the NHL.




http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/2016/6/30/12061720/pk-suban-trade-signals-troubling-shift-in-philosophy-for-montreal-canadiens-shea-weber-size-skill


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since we have drifted the convo to include captain patch, as many of you know, i have been campaigning for us to trade him for most of last season.

for the record, i wanted it because i think hes enormously overrated and not a legit star player and all indications are we see him as a star player who is going to get extended to a sweetheart deal.

as it pertains to this subban thing, i see patch more than ever as part of the privelege squad aka the foxhole crew, and when your in that foxhole you sure like life on the habs of today because no matter what you do you will get the special treatment.

Colorado incident is a good example of this ... Subban falls down and it creates a 3 on 3 ... Patches just literally gives up on his man and Iginla scores.

Does Patches get called out?

No

It's Subban fault for creating what is normally a fairly low risk encounter (3 on 3)

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Oh! Well maybe they pinky-sweared that in 2 years they'll trade him back to us for Weber again :ph34r:

LOL

Poile on phone with MB "No really, I will ... I promise ... yeah, for sure ... just sign the trade ... yup, he's yours in 2 years ... uh huh ... I know it's not in writing ... did you sign it? yeah? ok fax it back ... "

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Wow.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised at this move, considering the way management is catering to the whims of the current untouchable head coach. Ironic, because Therrien has actually proved that if you want to win a Cup, you must fire him. They didn't put up with his selfish, arrogant, elitist lack of accountability and direct insults to the players in Pittsburgh, and we all saw how that worked out. But in French-speaking Montreal, where the only thing that matters any more is beer sales, he's a perfect fit. Not for winning, but just to keep up the good ol' boys' gong show.

Given his history, it sure seems to me that the real cancer in the locker room is Therrien and his tyrannical attitude. If he had a string of championships, that would be one thing, but instead, all he has done is show that he is very capable of destroying a team's best assets while insisting to play a "system" that was already outdated in the 1990s. A better coach would have taken the roster we had last season to new heights, even after Price went down. Now they're gutting the core, selling the future, and thumbing their noses at the fans and the public while they desperately hang on to their cushy jobs.

When I think of all the "what could have been" scenarios in recent Habs history, I am reminded of all the years I worked in the casino industry, where it wasn't what you knew, but who you knew (or, insert that other word that rhymes with "knew"), that determined your employment status and pay grade. The big difference is the casino always wins, whereas the Habs always lose.

As far as the one-for-one trade itself is concerned, it's lousy. Right up there with shipping Lars Eller out of town for a bag of pucks. One thing seems certain: the Habs are moving backwards. I'm not sure I even want to watch this inept mismanagement of players again this coming season. Do they sell shares of stock in press boxes? I would go long here.

This almost makes me anxious for the Las Vegas NHL team to begin its journey into the Bettman Hockey League. Almost.

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Hi guys! I'm new but the Pk Subban trade got me to create an account. I have read all the disgruntled comments, so I have to ask. Why do people really feel Montreal got hosed? How many games did Pk cost the habs last season? His stats show he scored 6 goals. Weber scored 20.The powerplay was so predictable, pass it to pk and he'll shoot and probably miss. It's almost like the Eller situation. He'd skate into the zone, go behind the net, and lose the puck. I believe Weber will improve the powerplay and won't make plays and lose the puck which leads to a goal. One thing to take into consideration is what if drafting Sergachev played into the Pk trade? Serg is touted as the next Markov, but bigger and tougher. I'm sorry, I'll go back to Subban vs Weber. After Pk's no trade clause kicks in today, he can pull any stunt he wants to, and what could be done? That's what I think about it. The shock wore off but now I'm kind of happy he's gone.

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Guest habs1952

Hi guys! I'm new but the Pk Subban trade got me to create an account. I have read all the disgruntled comments, so I have to ask. Why do people really feel Montreal got hosed? How many games did Pk cost the habs last season? His stats show he scored 6 goals. Weber scored 20.The powerplay was so predictable, pass it to pk and he'll shoot and probably miss. It's almost like the Eller situation. He'd skate into the zone, go behind the net, and lose the puck. I believe Weber will improve the powerplay and won't make plays and lose the puck which leads to a goal. One thing to take into consideration is what if drafting Sergachev played into the Pk trade? Serg is touted as the next Markov, but bigger and tougher. I'm sorry, I'll go back to Subban vs Weber. After Pk's no trade clause kicks in today, he can pull any stunt he wants to, and what could be done? That's what I think about it. The shock wore off but now I'm kind of happy he's gone.

(1) PK no longer has a no-trade clause

(2) The coaches design the power play not PK. They are the ones responsible.

(3) DD goes behind the net and loses the puck every single time yet he's still here.

(4) If your gonna blame Subban for losses then you gotta blame Patches, Plekanec, DD, Therrien, MB, etc, etc. Everyone was responsible for last season but none more so than the management of the team

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Once you take out the emotion from this trade you should all realize this is more than just a hockey move, its a culture change in the organiztion. Throw all that analytic junk out the window, end of the day Shea Weber right now is a better all around defenceman than Subban. His age and contract are a negative, but his last four years are 3,1,1,1 meaning he's easy to move in those years if he declines to a cap floor team, and if he retires early the cap penalty goes to Nashville not Montreal. I think he will age well though and you don't lose a 108mph slapshot.

Weber will bring professionalism and leadership to the habs organization that we've been lacking for years. Milan Lucic's comments should back that up when he stated today that after this trade it made him seriously consider singing with the Habs. This would have never happened with Subban still here.

End of the day I don't like the way Bergevin handled this by stating he wasn't being moved then going behind his back, especially after his 9 year contract and his love for the community and charitable contributions. However for the next 4-5 years I think this trade will pay off for the habs.

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Once you take out the emotion from this trade you should all realize this is more than just a hockey move. Throw all that analytic junk out the window, end of the day Shea Weber right now is a better all around defenceman than Subban. His age and contract are a negative, but his last four years are 3,1,1,1 meaning he's easy to move in those years if he declines to a cap floor team, and if he retires early the cap penalty goes to Nashville not Montreal. I think he will age well though and you don't lose a 108mph slapshot.

Weber will bring a culture change and professionalism to the habs organization that we've been lacking for years. Milan Lucic's comments should back that up when he stated today that after this trade it made him seriously consider singing with the Habs. This would have never happened with Subban still here.

End of the day I don't like the way Bergevin handled this by stating he wasn't being moved then going behind his back, especially after his 9 year contract and his love for the community and charitable contributions. However for the next 4-5 years I think this trade will pay off for the habs.

Weber is not a "better all around defenceman than Subban" ... go look at the advanced metrics that show Subban is better in almost every single category.

Being in Oilers country, I've seen Weber play ... he's slow, cautious and doesn't generate rushes or control the puck the way Subban can. We got shafted, period.

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I don't think anybody is questioning that Weber is a quality Dman. Most of us are glad he's a Hab. The problem stems from actual value we got in return. The fact he's in the declining years of his career vs a #1 guy in his prime for years to come, is where most of us can't stomach the 1 for 1 swap. When the trade first broke, i immediately said that Weber better be coming the other way +. The fact we didn't get that plus is why most of us feel we got hosed because of a management team that never admitted publicly that there was a problem with PK.

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I don't think anybody is questioning that Weber is a quality Dman. Most of us are glad he's a Hab. The problem stems from actual value we got in return. The fact he's in the declining years of his career vs a #1 guy in his prime for years to come, is where most of us can't stomach the 1 for 1 swap. When the trade first broke, i immediately said that Weber better be coming the other way +. The fact we didn't get that plus is why most of us feel we got hosed because of a management team that never admitted publicly that there was a problem with PK.

Yup ... directly lied to the public even

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Guest Regis2

who can translate - from the Stu Cowan's comments, appears PK got thrown under the bus by 2 ex teammates with character

Hockey Inside/Out Retweeted

Stu Cowan
✔ ‎@StuCowan1 David Desharnais, Tomas Plekanec think #Habs better team without @PKSubban1
#Habs #HabsIO: http://tinyurl.com/hczjaqd

http://www.rds.ca/hockey/canadiens/echange-p-k-subban-shea-weber-un-mal-pour-un-bien-selon-les-joueurs-du-ch-lnh-1.3447050

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who can translate - from the Stu Cowan's comments, appears PK got thrown under the bus by 2 ex teammates with character

Hockey Inside/Out Retweeted

Stu Cowan

✔ ‎@StuCowan1 David Desharnais, Tomas Plekanec think #Habs better team without @PKSubban1 #Habs #HabsIO: http://tinyurl.com/hczjaqd

http://www.rds.ca/hockey/canadiens/echange-p-k-subban-shea-weber-un-mal-pour-un-bien-selon-les-joueurs-du-ch-lnh-1.3447050

Not the case at all. They both say great things about PK. Pleks says he was shocked and there was no problem in the room. Goes on to more or less say that's business. DD wasn't as surprised because he figures nobody is really safe in the game. They think they are a better team with the addition of both Weber AND Shaw. What should they say???? They now stink because of the trade? Obviously this is a play on words by media.

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There's a reason Shea Weber is a mainstay on Team Canada and PK Subban isn't. Just because Weber doesn't wind up behind his own net like Bobby Orr and spin in circles doesn't mean he's not as offensively productive as Subban. PK had 6 goals last year and Shea had 20. He led the league in PPG and the habs power play was a disaster. He's also way harder to play against in the habs zone and more physical. No doubt in the world PK has more skill, is a better skater and will still develop with maturity, but I honestly believe Weber will have more of an impact with this team because of his leadership and team/hockey first mentality. I do wish they could have unloaded Desharnais with Subban and got some picks or prospects back with Weber though.

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who can translate - from the Stu Cowan's comments, appears PK got thrown under the bus by 2 ex teammates with character

Hockey Inside/Out Retweeted

Stu Cowan

✔ ‎@StuCowan1 David Desharnais, Tomas Plekanec think #Habs better team without @PKSubban1 #Habs #HabsIO: http://tinyurl.com/hczjaqd

http://www.rds.ca/hockey/canadiens/echange-p-k-subban-shea-weber-un-mal-pour-un-bien-selon-les-joueurs-du-ch-lnh-1.3447050

I was surprised to hear the news , adding Tomas Plekanec . It's part of hockey , but we all get a player in return. It's still sad to see Subban and Eller leave.

I was surprised to hear the news , adding Tomas Plekanec . It's part of hockey , but we all get a player in return. It's still sad to see Subban and Eller from .

He brought a lot of energy , for sure , for his part praised Desharnais . I played with him in Hamilton. Since its early years , I played with him. This is a guy who was always smiling. Who brought good humor everyone . It is also an exceptional player .

The question that is on everyone's lips is this: was there a problem with Subban in the dressing room ? "No, Plekanec replied flatly . We also texted to wish him good luck in Nashville.

So Cowan taking one part of the article and exaggerating it without context

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Guest habs1952

Once you take out the emotion from this trade you should all realize this is more than just a hockey move, its a culture change in the organiztion. Throw all that analytic junk out the window, end of the day Shea Weber right now is a better all around defenceman than Subban. His age and contract are a negative, but his last four years are 3,1,1,1 meaning he's easy to move in those years if he declines to a cap floor team, and if he retires early the cap penalty goes to Nashville not Montreal. I think he will age well though and you don't lose a 108mph slapshot.

Weber will bring professionalism and leadership to the habs organization that we've been lacking for years. Milan Lucic's comments should back that up when he stated today that after this trade it made him seriously consider singing with the Habs. This would have never happened with Subban still here.

End of the day I don't like the way Bergevin handled this by stating he wasn't being moved then going behind his back, especially after his 9 year contract and his love for the community and charitable contributions. However for the next 4-5 years I think this trade will pay off for the habs.

Isn't that why Patches was named captain? <_<

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Guest habs1952

who can translate - from the Stu Cowan's comments, appears PK got thrown under the bus by 2 ex teammates with character

Hockey Inside/Out Retweeted

Stu Cowan

✔ ‎@StuCowan1 David Desharnais, Tomas Plekanec think #Habs better team without @PKSubban1 #Habs #HabsIO: http://tinyurl.com/hczjaqd

http://www.rds.ca/hockey/canadiens/echange-p-k-subban-shea-weber-un-mal-pour-un-bien-selon-les-joueurs-du-ch-lnh-1.3447050

We'd be a hell of a team without DD.

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Just because Weber doesn't wind up behind his own net like Bobby Orr and spin in circles doesn't mean he's not as offensively productive as Subban.

Indeed not. The massively huge difference in offensive possession means he isn't as offensively productive as Subban.

He's also way harder to play against in the habs zone and more physical.

If Shea Weber is harder to play against than P.K. Subban, why have the Predators been a worse team with him on the ice than the Habs were with Subban?

Can anyone—anyone!—tangibly define what "harder to play against" actually means? Further, can any two people agree on it?

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Guest habs1952

Indeed not. The massively huge difference in offensive possession means he isn't as offensively productive as Subban.

If Shea Weber is harder to play against than P.K. Subban, why have the Predators been a worse team with him on the ice than the Habs were with Subban?

Can anyone—anyone!—tangibly define what "harder to play against" actually means? Further, can any two people agree on it?

I would guess a little more physical.

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Indeed not. The massively huge difference in offensive possession means he isn't as offensively productive as Subban.

If Shea Weber is harder to play against than P.K. Subban, why have the Predators been a worse team with him on the ice than the Habs were with Subban?

Can anyone—anyone!—tangibly define what "harder to play against" actually means? Further, can any two people agree on it?

I'm trying very hard not to be offensive ... but anyone spouting that Weber is superior to Subban is clearly drinking the same kool aid that MB, MT and Team Canada are.

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Does anyone else think Pacioretty gives up the C to Weber?

Shea Weber was not just the captain of the Preds but the reigning "Mark Messier Award" recipient for best leader in the NHL. He's been a WC captain and alternate at the olympics...

Considering how Shaky Max' first year was, I wouldnt be surprised at all for him to 'give it up' as a nice easy way to get out from under the leadership role.

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