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Subban Traded For Weber


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Weber doesn't even understand the pressure he's going to feel when he gets here. 90% of fans hate this trade, and people are going to hold Weber accountable on the ice because they can't direct boos at Bergevin during games. The guys they can actually hold accountable on the ice are Weber and Pacioretty, and that's who should hear it, rightly or wrongly.

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Trading PK Subban was never going to be a popular move. As a fan of the team I am saddened to see him go but these claims that this is a bad trade are highly overblown and not based on any objective assessment of either player.

PK Subban is an exciting, larger than life, elite level defenceman. Watching him play is a joy to watch some nights. However, let us be honest here, he is also a very high-risk, high reward player. When he makes a play it is usually brilliant but at the same time when he does not make a play it is often the very opposite of brilliant. Many times I have watched games and cheered Subban only to have a WTH moment a few minutes later. The one saving grace for Subban was when he made one of his mistakes he had the best goaltender on the planet to bail him out most of the time. He did not have that last season and you might have noticed that he did not take nearly as many chances. One has to wonder how he will approarch the game in Nashville without Cary Price there to back him up.

Shea Weber is a boring, elite level defenceman. He was a stalwart on the blue line for Nashville and he has been a rock on the bluelines of some team Canadas. He was the captain of the Predators so we know he is a good leader, something that was sorely missing last season when Price went down. At age 30, he is older than Subban but he is not ancient. He is still in his prime and he still has a more than a few years left in him. His cap hit is less than Subban's and that will be very important as the team attempts to bring in another top six forward via free agency in a couple of days.

The one intriging thing I find about him is he not only has a booming shot but he can quarterback a powerplay. The most frustrating thing about watching the Habs for the last few seasons was watching their futility with the man advantage. Everybody, their brother and their dog knew that the powerplay had one play, try to set up Subban for the one timer. The result was predictable, a power play that was perennially in the bottom third in the league. Now just imagine a powerplay coached by Kirk Muller with Markov and Weber quarterbacking the two powerplay units.

With 5-on-5 goals trending downwards, season after season, having an effective powerplay is going to be crucial to any team with serious ambitions to go deep in the playoffs. If Shea Weber can help the Canadiens improve their powerplay then this team will be successful.

Is this a good trade. On an emotional level no. PK Subban was extremely popular with fans, including me and the shock of seeing him go is hard to swallow. However, objectively speaking we really cannot judge whether this trade is a good one or not. It is too early to tell. We will have to wait a couple of years to really know.

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but these claims that this is a bad trade are highly overblown and not based on any objective assessment of either player.

That's the thing, though. Weber is inferior to Subban in terms of possession, and has been for at least the last two seasons. Objectively, Weber is better at scoring 5-on-5 goals, and basically nothing else.

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I don't think those numbers are right, based on my reading of the rule, but the point is the same... we get hit a little, Nashville gets hit a lot.

On Weber, he IS inferior to Subban by just about every measurable statistic. Subban's possession was something like 52-54% and Weber was sitting at about 49% on a good possession team (citing those from memory only, not sure if they're right but it's in that range). His Corsi relative was vastly inferior to Subban's. His point production was also inferior.

I don't think we can judge this trade in 2-3 years. Because he might just be able to keep up with Subban for a couple of years. But Weber's contract lasts 10 years longer, so we need to judge the deal over that entire course. Because if Weber is good for 3 years then hurts our team because he slows down like Markov, Hamrlik, Spacek, or Kaberle did and we're paying him 8M to be a #4 D man for 5-7 years, that absolutely has to go into how you weigh the trade outcome. I don't see this being favorable for us in terms of how it plays out.

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From Stu Cowan of The Gazette:

Stu Cowan @StuCowan1

Sign of big problem with Subban and #Habs when captain Max Pacioretty gave up on his backcheck in Colorado and coach blamed P.K. for goal.

Let's not forget Pacioretty's role in this. He definitely played a role in helping to blackball Subban here. He's been on Team Therrien since day 1 and he's never been a fan of Subban's either.

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'Many fans and media in Montreal reacted with shock or even outrage when the Canadiens announced that the popular Subban was leaving the team after seven seasons. The deal came two days before a no-trade clause was to go into effect on a long-term contract averaging US$9 million per season.


"Right now I'm going to a team that wants me," Subban told Nashville media on a conference call from Paris, adding he felt "a whole lot closer" to winning a Stanley Cup after the trade.


Canadiens general manager Marc Bergevin said in a release that the deal would "make the Canadiens a better team.'



http://www.tsn.ca/blueliner-blockbuster-habs-trade-subban-to-predators-for-weber-1.517918


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'The Canadiens will receive veteran defenceman Shea Weber, an elite defenceman who is four years older. Weber, who will be 31 in August, has never won a Norris Trophy as the league’s top defenceman but has finished in the top four in voting five times. Subban won the award in the league’s lockout-shortened season.


“We completed today an important transaction which I am convinced will make the Canadiens a better team,” Canadiens general manager Marc Bergevin said in a statement on the team’s website.'



http://news.nationalpost.com/sports/nhl/montreal-canadiens-deal-p-k-subban-to-nashville-for-predators-captain-shea-weber


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Guest Regis2

Jack Todd

http://www.hockeyinsideout.com/news/jack-todd-subbans-brash-confident-style-was-never-a-fit-with-habs

Head coach Michel Therrien cannot say the same — or at least he can’t say it and tell the truth. Therrien did not like Subban. Didn’t like him when he was commenting for RDS, didn’t like him when he took over as head coach, didn’t like him when the wheels were falling off his team last winter. If Therrien loved his star defenceman, this deal would never have been made. Therrien does not like Subban and the feeling, no doubt, is mutual

There was a profound rift in that dressing room, with captain Max Pacioretty on one side and Subban on the other — and with management squarely behind Pacioretty. To give Pacioretty a team award for community service during a season when Subban promised to raise $10 million for the new hospital was an open slap in the face to the defenceman, delivered by his teammates

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Guest habs1952

Subban was traded because he's BLACK! Period. End of story.


I blame MB for this whole mess :angry::angry::angry: . This whole thing could have been avoided if MB had done the right thing and fired Therrien in Feb.

I am SOOOOO, ticked right now, and that's putting it extremely mildly.

Abbot and Costello.

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Jack Todd

http://www.hockeyinsideout.com/news/jack-todd-subbans-brash-confident-style-was-never-a-fit-with-habs

Head coach Michel Therrien cannot say the same — or at least he can’t say it and tell the truth. Therrien did not like Subban. Didn’t like him when he was commenting for RDS, didn’t like him when he took over as head coach, didn’t like him when the wheels were falling off his team last winter. If Therrien loved his star defenceman, this deal would never have been made. Therrien does not like Subban and the feeling, no doubt, is mutual

There was a profound rift in that dressing room, with captain Max Pacioretty on one side and Subban on the other — and with management squarely behind Pacioretty. To give Pacioretty a team award for community service during a season when Subban promised to raise $10 million for the new hospital was an open slap in the face to the defenceman, delivered by his teammates

Subban needed Montreal more then Montreal needed Subban.

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Articles from Scott Cullen of TSN and from yahoosports both go through the actual statistics and advanced data for both Weber and Subban and both come to the same conclusion: that Subban is far and away the better player and Marc Bergevin got hosed big time. All the date supports this. MB tried to say that the trade was purely a hockey trade and had nothing to do with Subban's personality or a clash with the coach. We all know Bergevin'g lying (just look at how uncomfortable he looked and how many times he looked down while trying to answer those questions). But even for a second, let's say Bergevin believed he was getting the better of the hockey deal. O what basis? On what grounds is he making that evaluation? Because all the numbers suggest Subban is superior. So how did MB reach that decision, because he has no data to back up what he did and it really it makes him look inadequate as a GM for him to declare that he got the better hockey player.

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I don't think we can judge this trade in 2-3 years. Because he might just be able to keep up with Subban for a couple of years. But Weber's contract lasts 10 years longer, so we need to judge the deal over that entire course. Because if Weber is good for 3 years then hurts our team because he slows down like Markov, Hamrlik, Spacek, or Kaberle did and we're paying him 8M to be a #4 D man for 5-7 years, that absolutely has to go into how you weigh the trade outcome. I don't see this being favorable for us in terms of how it plays out.

This.

Look, lets play devil's advocate. There are rumblings that Subban was disliked in the room. I dont buy it but lets just say it was the case. So MB decides he needs to move Subban. Ok.

That still doesnt explain the return.

We got a guy who is a great player - there is no denying that - but inferior to Subban in basically every. single. way. Worse still, his contract is BAD. AND he's older. Oh AND he's got way more mileage on his bones AND he plays a physical game. This return makes ZERO sense.

I mean you would think that at very least we could have gotten Weber + a 1st or Weber + Kamenev or Trenin. Or, we dont trade with Nashville at all. We go to the oilers (who clearly would have overpaid) and taken Hall, the 4th overall & maybe Nurse?

If there are extraneous circumstances we just do not know about (extremely unlikely, but lets say there are) and Bergevin felt he absolutely positively had to make a deal, there HAD to have been a one out there.

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This.

Look, lets play devil's advocate. There are rumblings that Subban was disliked in the room. I dont buy it but lets just say it was the case. So MB decides he needs to move Subban. Ok.

That still doesnt explain the return.

We got a guy who is a great player - there is no denying that - but inferior to Subban in basically every. single. way. It make ZERO sense.

I mean you would think that at very least we could have gotten Weber + a 1st or Weber + Kamenev or Trenin. Or, we dont trade with Nashville at all. We go to the oilers (who clearly would have overpaid) and taken Hall, the 4th overall & maybe Nurse?

If there are extraneous circumstances we just do not know about (extremely unlikely, but lets say there are) and Bergevin felt he absolutely positively had to make a deal, there HAD to have been a one out there.

According to Ryan Rishaug, the Canadiens WERE negotiating with the Oilers as well (contrary to the lies Bergevin has been telling us). And he states that the ask from the Habs was for Draisaitl, the 4th overall, one of Klefbom or Nurse, and more... now if Bergevin thought that he could get the equivalent of 4 first rounders from the Oilers as fair market value for Subban, why did he settle for Shea Weber?

This trade doesn't help us in any way become better now. It doesn't help our cap situation over the long run. And it doesn't help us rebuild either. There is just zero advantage to this deal any way you cut it.

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A common refrain I've heard from people who don't think this is an historically terrible trade without any conceivable excuse is that Subban's "risky" plays were just too much, and Weber is fantastic because he doesn't do that. Okay. So, we'll go with that new standard: When (not if) Weber makes any mistakes whatsoever, he's to receive mountains of criticism about his reckless individualism that makes him unfit to play on the team, and his attempts to make "flashy" plays that an "honest, hard-working" player just wouldn't make. He's to be perfect every night, or he simply must be dressed down.

After all, if it's good enough for P.K., it's good enough for the player Marc Bergevin says is every bit as good, isn't it?

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the ask from the Habs was for Draisaitl, the 4th overall, one of Klefbom or Nurse, and more... now if Bergevin thought that he could get the equivalent of 4 first rounders from the Oilers as fair market value for Subban, why did he settle for Shea Weber?

Bingo. and like i said, if - and its a huge IF - Bergevin absolutely HAD to trade Subban (everyone except Price hated him or some nonsense) then make that trade. We would have all hated it but at least it would have had the potential to make us better, if not stay the same.

This deal can only make us worse. End of story. Maybe we compete this year and next but within a few this deal is going to be an albatross & already i think it makes us weaker most likely.

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Here's Brian Wilde:

http://montreal.ctvnews.ca/call-of-the-wilde-they-actually-did-it-1.2967744

At the end of the article, he basically chastises the likes of Therrien, Bergevin, Daigneault, and Pacioretty (the management, coaches, and players who ran Subban out of town) and ends by subtly calling them the confederacy of dunces. It's pretty clear Wilde (and many other media) think very little of our management and coach right now.

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Here's Brian Wilde:

http://montreal.ctvnews.ca/call-of-the-wilde-they-actually-did-it-1.2967744

At the end of the article, he basically chastises the likes of Therrien, Bergevin, Daigneault, and Pacioretty (the management, coaches, and players who ran Subban out of town) and ends by subtly calling them the confederacy of dunces. It's pretty clear Wilde (and many other media) think very little of our management and coach right now.

What about the media that matter, though? Y'know, the ones that aired a celebratory victory lap after Lars Eller was traded?

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What about the media that matter, though? Y'know, the ones that aired a celebratory victory lap after Lars Eller was traded?

Yeah. Gaston Therrien and Mario Tremblay and some of the other Anti-Chambre gang have already stated they think it's a great trade for the Habs. But then again, they're anti-Subban, anti-anything that doesn't speak French, anti-success.... Tremblay ran Patrick Roy out of town and he's friends with Michel Therrien, so what's he going to say. He's cut from the same cloth.

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