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#6 Shea Weber 2016-17


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#6 Shea Weber

Alternate Captain

Mark Messier Leadership Award

EMbfCxF.jpg

Position: Defence

Shoots: Right

Birthplace: Sicamous, BC, CAN

Birth date: 14 August 1985

Age: 30

Height: 6' 4"

Weight: 236 lbs

Drafted by: Nashville

Draft Year: 2003 Round 2 (49th Overall)

Archive 2015-16

Stats | Video | NHL.com | Contract Info

 

OwnThePuck HERO Chart (http://ownthepuck.blogspot.com/):JKT5rzI.png

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An interesting (albeit a year old) article on Weber from a Nashville fan basically giving his theory on why Weber and statistics dont always measure up. Its a sports illustrated page so it may load slowly (does on my computer for some reason)

A good read even though its mostly just one man's opinion/analysis of Weber.

Shea Weber vs Advanced Stats

One take away from the article is that if we can pair Weber with a mobile but relatively defensively aware partner (Nate?) he may well show a big improvement in Corsi.

Im starting to think my ideal lineup (with what we have now) is:

Beaulieu - Weber

Sergachev/Markov - Petry

Markov/Emelin/Barberio - Pateryn

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I agree that some advanced stats are too harsh on Weber but he's still not as good as Subban and also not as easy to plug into our current lineup scheme. The biggest issue with Weber is mostly that we got a guy who's at an age where his game could regress worse and worse in an instant.

As for Beaulieu and Weber, yes it's logical and I thought so immediately upon hearing of the trade but does anyone think that it'll happen for even 50% of a full season? Therrien is going to play Weber as a LEGIT 1st pairing guy gobbling up tons of minutes and I just cannot imagine him sticking with Beaulieu in that role for any length of time. Therrien won't match Beaulieu up against other team's top lines, he won't give him 21-23 ES minutes per game and if he does try at some point I'll be very surprised if he sticks with it. Hope I'm wrong. Markov - Weber has disaster written all over it.

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As for Beaulieu and Weber, yes it's logical and I thought so immediately upon hearing of the trade but does anyone think that it'll happen for even 50% of a full season? Therrien is going to play Weber as a LEGIT 1st pairing guy gobbling up tons of minutes and I just cannot imagine him sticking with Beaulieu in that role for any length of time. Therrien won't match Beaulieu up against other team's top lines, he won't give him 21-23 ES minutes per game and if he does try at some point I'll be very surprised if he sticks with it. Hope I'm wrong. Markov - Weber has disaster written all over it.

Since we're all pretty much in agreement that Beaulieu and Weber will happen only by accident under Therrien...

Weber-Petry could work in theory. Petry's massively underrated for his possession performance, and just in general. Foot speed's not there, but I would worry less about Weber being constantly forced into a defensive shell. Weber-Emelin... I don't like it if only because it's two physical guys whose natural instinct is to concede the puck (though there's plenty of other reasons not to like it). The less said about Webov the better.

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I agree that some advanced stats are too harsh on Weber but he's still not as good as Subban and also not as easy to plug into our current lineup scheme. The biggest issue with Weber is mostly that we got a guy who's at an age where his game could regress worse and worse in an instant.

As for Beaulieu and Weber, yes it's logical and I thought so immediately upon hearing of the trade but does anyone think that it'll happen for even 50% of a full season? Therrien is going to play Weber as a LEGIT 1st pairing guy gobbling up tons of minutes and I just cannot imagine him sticking with Beaulieu in that role for any length of time. Therrien won't match Beaulieu up against other team's top lines, he won't give him 21-23 ES minutes per game and if he does try at some point I'll be very surprised if he sticks with it. Hope I'm wrong. Markov - Weber has disaster written all over it.

Since we're all pretty much in agreement that Beaulieu and Weber will happen only by accident under Therrien...

Weber-Petry could work in theory. Petry's massively underrated for his possession performance, and just in general. Foot speed's not there, but I would worry less about Weber being constantly forced into a defensive shell. Weber-Emelin... I don't like it if only because it's two physical guys whose natural instinct is to concede the puck (though there's plenty of other reasons not to like it). The less said about Webov the better.

Yeah agree with both of you. I think Weber-Beau might work, but worry that Therrien wont allow it.

my thoughts:

Beaulieu - Weber ( consensus first choice. should work. If they click the way i think they can, they might be a very good top pairing. Will Therrien let them? Another question.)

Sergachev - Weber (this is a loooooong shot. first off, he probably wont make the team. but if he does, do you really throw him to the Wolves? He may have the skills to make this work but i would be very cautious).

Barberio - Weber (not ideal but if Nate and Weber dont click... you never know. I think he might be able to compliment Weber, not sure if he can handle the minutes though)

Markov - Weber or Emelin - Weber will both be disastrous imho. If we can all see this, i sure hope Therrien can too.

I dont like the idea of any R shot with Weber - we're really nicely balanced on the right side so I wouldnt try Petry, Pateryn or Juulsen there.

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I think Webber and Markov will see some time together especially on the PP and I expect they will have success. Therrien should move Webber around a little this year and get him familiar with his teammates. I like the Beaulieu match, but am not sure Beaulieu is ready for the step up to top pairing. He and Sergachev are more likely ready than Petry who I felt showed he was significantly overpayed last year. I hope Petry can rebound but am not holding my breath. So I think Markov starts with Webber for a while and stays on the PP with him to develop some chemistry leaving Barberio, Sergachev, Petry and Beaulieu as the second pairing players available for the PP. I think the fact our 6 and 7 Pateryn and Barberio are who they are makes it quite possible the Canadians decide to stick with Sergachev and he will stay up with the big club. This will call for us to carry 8 defencemen to start the year and find a trade for Pateryn.

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I think Webber and Markov will see some time together especially on the PP and I expect they will have success. Therrien should move Webber around a little this year and get him familiar with his teammates. I like the Beaulieu match, but am not sure Beaulieu is ready for the step up to top pairing. He and Sergachev are more likely ready than Petry who I felt showed he was significantly overpayed last year. I hope Petry can rebound but am not holding my breath. So I think Markov starts with Webber for a while and stays on the PP with him to develop some chemistry leaving Barberio, Sergachev, Petry and Beaulieu as the second pairing players available for the PP. I think the fact our 6 and 7 Pateryn and Barberio are who they are makes it quite possible the Canadians decide to stick with Sergachev and he will stay up with the big club. This will call for us to carry 8 defencemen to start the year and find a trade for Pateryn.

Petry, for a large portion of last season, was playing through the sports hernia that eventually ended his season and forced him to undergo surgery. He was very good up until he took the check from Jamie Benn, which is what caused the injury. I'm not worried about his play when healthy, but I'm not big on him playing his off-side. This dilemma is yet another self-inflicted wound caused by lack of foresight by management and an obvious disdain for who Subban is. A massive overvaluing of Weber is playing into this too, considering what they were asking from Edmonton for Subban (Draisaitl, Nurse, Klefbom, 4th pick, + more).

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Petry, for a large portion of last season, was playing through the sports hernia that eventually ended his season and forced him to undergo surgery. He was very good up until he took the check from Jamie Benn, which is what caused the injury. I'm not worried about his play when healthy, but I'm not big on him playing his off-side. This dilemma is yet another self-inflicted wound caused by lack of foresight by management and an obvious disdain for who Subban is. A massive overvaluing of Weber is playing into this too, considering what they were asking from Edmonton for Subban (Draisaitl, Nurse, Klefbom, 4th pick, + more).

Edmonton thought that was too much and Bergevin might have been letting them know that he wanted a lot of youth as you never know how they will turn out. I don't think the Oilers would have said yes if the offer was for Draisaitl and Klefbom. Those are big pieces of their future. Weber is a known quantity who has been doing what he does for a long time. Making trades with last place teams to get better may not always work out. The Oilers have had some terrible decisions on players over the past ten years and I don't mind the fact Chiarelli didn't go for this. I prefer Weber.

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Edmonton thought that was too much and Bergevin might have been letting them know that he wanted a lot of youth as you never know how they will turn out. I don't think the Oilers would have said yes if the offer was for Draisaitl and Klefbom. Those are big pieces of their future. Weber is a known quantity who has been doing what he does for a long time. Making trades with last place teams to get better may not always work out. The Oilers have had some terrible decisions on players over the past ten years and I don't mind the fact Chiarelli didn't go for this. I prefer Weber.

Rumor was that Edmonton was willing to go as high as Draisaitl, the 4th overall, and Klefbom. I would have still wanted more for Subban, but even then, I think that trade would have been better than the Weber one. At least with that trade, you could argue the Habs were going to be saving money on the cap and getting better in the future. With the Weber trade, there's a more immediate return but you're a worse team now and later, so it's a much harder trade to explain and support.

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  • 2 weeks later...

-The only clip I heard from Weber was from TSN 1040 radio in Vancouver, where he pulled out all the usual clichés about how thrilling it is to play for a storied franchise like the Montreal Canadiens.


The only thing of note that Weber said was that he won’t be tailoring his style to whatever the heck the Habs’ system is.


“I’ll be honest with you, I’m not going to change anything,” Weber said. “There’s obviously a reason the trade took place. The team wants you for a reason. So I don’t see any reason to change my style or anything I do.”


I guess that means we can expect big hits and big slapshots on the power play.



http://montrealgazette.com/sports/what-the-puck-are-the-habs-a-better-team-than-last-years-edition


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I hope he doesn't change his style, it's his style of play that has given him success at the NHL level.

Can't wait for marchant to get too close to price and have shea make him part of the boards. :D:lol:

I am looking forward to that too. For far too long players have piled into the crease without even some lip service going back the other way. Other than Emelin, we have not have much of a physical presence in front of Carey. What will we do if this added protection actually helps Carey play better.

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I am looking forward to that too. For far too long players have piled into the crease without even some lip service going back the other way. Other than Emelin, we have not have much of a physical presence in front of Carey. What will we do if this added protection actually helps Carey play better.

Not saying Kreider wouldn't have run into price if weber was around, he's a big boy and can handle himself. Some of the smaller players though, now have courage, because we didn't have anyone who could punish players from getting close. Sure,. we have gallagher who doesn't seem rattled by any defender of any size, but those players are the exception rather than the norm. Most don't like being cross-checked in the back, having a but end of a stick rammed into their ribs every shift. Sure players have padding, but defenders know where the padding ends and a good one will make sure he gets the unprotected areas with his stick.

You'll always have gallaghers, but most players will back off after a period of cross-checks to the back.

With price's nagging knee injuries, we need to protect him better. Thankfully Milan "I didn't see Miller" lucic, is in the west. But we still have Chris Kreider in our division.

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Rumor was that Edmonton was willing to go as high as Draisaitl, the 4th overall, and Klefbom. I would have still wanted more for Subban, but even then, I think that trade would have been better than the Weber one. At least with that trade, you could argue the Habs were going to be saving money on the cap and getting better in the future. With the Weber trade, there's a more immediate return but you're a worse team now and later, so it's a much harder trade to explain and support.

I don't think we're a worse team now due to the trade. Maybe in as little as a few years we will be, but I'm not worried so much in the short term. Defensively i think we'll be harder to play against. Doesn't mean we won't get scored on, but instead of us being the team worn down over 3 periods, we will on most nights, wear our opponents down.

I wondered after the Hall trade if we could've landed Hall for PK. But then i thought of a replacement for PK. Petry did play top pairing in Edmonton, but feel he's better as a 2nd pairing. Although our top 6 would've had 2 elite players, Hall & Chuck, our defense would've been set back maybe 5 years. At least we have an accomplished top pairing dman, for the short term. But it didn't help our offense, in fact, right after the trade, a team that was already desperate for goals, just got worse.

I'm not concerned for the next few years, after that, my concern grows exponentially. Especially when i see how chara has regressed over the last few seasons. Chara and Shea have similar style, log huge minutes, used in all situations, play a very physical style, despite being labelled as defensive dmen-both have a killer shot from the point. So, if chara could win a cup in his mid 30's, I don't see why Shea can't contribute as well.

The way i see it, we have a very short window in which to cash in and win a cup with present company. Every season that follows the trade, our chances lower imo. In turn, with PK just entering his peak years, Nashville's raises.

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An interesting (albeit a year old) article on Weber from a Nashville fan basically giving his theory on why Weber and statistics dont always measure up. Its a sports illustrated page so it may load slowly (does on my computer for some reason)

A good read even though its mostly just one man's opinion/analysis of Weber.

Shea Weber vs Advanced Stats

One take away from the article is that if we can pair Weber with a mobile but relatively defensively aware partner (Nate?) he may well show a big improvement in Corsi.

Im starting to think my ideal lineup (with what we have now) is:

Beaulieu - Weber

Sergachev/Markov - Petry

Markov/Emelin/Barberio - Pateryn

The problem is, knowing MT and his lack of foresight, Weber will be paired with Markov. That would make for some real ugliness against fast teams like Tampa and Pittsburgh.

I'm not so worried about MT pairing Weber- Marky, I'm more worried about JJ Daigneault doing that.

But with all this criticism of how MT is going to run things, let me remind everyone of one thing... Kirk Muller. :D

I know both MT and MB said it was only for help, but MT's collar must be feeling pretty tight these days. :lol:

Muller isn't an idiot, MT might be, but Muller isn't. We may see marky and weber paired up opening night, but I'd be very surprised to see that through an 82 game schedule. As they're evaluating their blueline (in reg season action, not pre-season), we may see marky there by default, it's been his spot for the last decade.

I'd like to see Nate and weber paired up, but no one has brought up Bo's inconsistency. He had games last season where he looked destined for top pairing minutes, then have a 5 game stretch where he looked suited for the press box.

I'm hoping Bo breaks out and finds some consistency in his game. Let's be honest, we need all the help we can get on the left side and our other options, aren't hopeful.

Ideally, I'd like to see marky's minutes managed this season. Keep him fresh for the PP, we're going to need it. No more 18+ minutes/game, he won't last the season.

With Muller, I expect a little more structure behind the bench. Our PP should be better, it was at it's best when Muller ran it ages ago. Gallant was decent, but Muller had better results imo.

Really excited to see Weber's blast from the point. This guy knows how to get his shot through. Even with a defender in his sight-line, it makes it through, one way or another. ;)

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  • 2 weeks later...
-Price on Weber: "He's going to bring a lot to our hockey team"

Carey Price talks about how much of an impact he thinks Shea Weber will have on the Canadiens next season, and how much he's looking forward to having Weber play in front of him.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/price-on-weber-he-s-going-to-bring-a-lot-to-our-hockey-team~925914

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-Price on Weber: "He's going to bring a lot to our hockey team"

Carey Price talks about how much of an impact he thinks Shea Weber will have on the Canadiens next season, and how much he's looking forward to having Weber play in front of him.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/price-on-weber-he-s-going-to-bring-a-lot-to-our-hockey-team~925914

Will Price and Weber be allowed to do the triple low 5 now? :rolleyes:

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-Price on Weber: "He's going to bring a lot to our hockey team"

Carey Price talks about how much of an impact he thinks Shea Weber will have on the Canadiens next season, and how much he's looking forward to having Weber play in front of him.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/price-on-weber-he-s-going-to-bring-a-lot-to-our-hockey-team~925914

LOL.....same old cliche. Only a fool would have said anything else.

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Has anyone else noticed a disturbing trend?

When Subban was a hab, I read all these articles about how awesome Shea Weber was and how PK was over-rated.

When Shea became a hab and Subban a pred, started reading all these articles about how Weber is over-rated and how Subban was under-rated now.

can we all, in hab-land, say... Double Standard!!!!! :mad:

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Has anyone else noticed a disturbing trend?

When Subban was a hab, I read all these articles about how awesome Shea Weber was and how PK was over-rated.

When Shea became a hab and Subban a pred, started reading all these articles about how Weber is over-rated and how Subban was under-rated now.

can we all, in hab-land, say... Double Standard!!!!! :mad:

I wrote about this a bit in another thread, but my theory is that it's basically group-think by the media. There are a few guys out there who write stories, but 9 times out of 10 sportswriters just regurgitate back what people already think, slap a snappy headline on that sucker and call it a day.

When Subban came up he was labelled a risky player and a defensive liability. Boom. It was done. From that day forward, whenever he made a mistake that cost a goal it became front-page news. Even a few years later, when his defense was really solid, the good defense was never reported on but every mistake still was. That's what people already believed, so that was the easy story to write. "PK Subban gives up the puck easily. It is known."

Now fast forward to this summer's trade. A hugely popular player was traded away, so the initial reaction was obviously negative. People looking for reasons to hate a trade they already hated started sharing articles that talked about how much better Subban's underlying stats were compared to Weber. All of a sudden the popular narrative had shifted. No longer was it "Subban is risky and Weber is a stalwart", it was now "Subban's younger, Subban's numbers were better, Weber's washed up, etc." Every sportswriter looking for the easy cash-in could now just parrot the same facts as a dozen other articles and they'd be guaranteed thousands of page views.

It didn't matter that a few years ago Subban wasn't the defensive liability that people claimed he was, just like it doesn't matter now that Weber is still a first-pairing defenseman in the NHL. Once that sportswriter momentum gets rolling it's hard to stop.

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