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Marc Bergevin and staff 2016-17


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3 hours ago, H_T_L said:

Likely saves his job for this year but i'd still fire him over trading PK and Eller simply because MT didn't like them. That's reason alone to get your butt canned. 

MB has made some savvy decisions in the past, but his mistakes have been bigger and have had a more profound effect on the team. This is really his last chance to save himself IMO. He has to find a way to strike a deal for a big name without giving up Galchenyuk or Sergachev.

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There's really no point in getting mad over this, but after the jubilation of Therrien's getting Donald trumped, I realized Bergevin did the same exact thing Houle did years ago. Houle dealed away the star, and fired Trenbley he the next season. Berg got rid of the star in pk and fired Therrien the next season. mmmm

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1 hour ago, manquant said:

There's really no point in getting mad over this, but after the jubilation of Therrien's getting Donald trumped, I realized Bergevin did the same exact thing Houle did years ago. Houle dealed away the star, and fired Trenbley he the next season. Berg got rid of the star in pk and fired Therrien the next season. mmmm

Good points. 

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For me, the most definitive picture of Bergevin was when Arpon Basu asked him point blank at the press conference:

"Do you believe the roster you've built during the off season is good enough to contend right now?"

Bergevin said YES with a straight face without hesitation.  That moment was golden! :4224:

201405-omag-lion-949x534.jpg 

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Well-summed up tweet from one of the HEOTP writers who said Bergevin is in no-man's land right now because of the Weber trade. When MB dealt Subban for Weber, he basically said my window to win a Cup is the next two years. Yet right now, he hasn't done enough to add to his core and make winning a Cup realistic. If he trades for spare parts, we're likely not going anywhere with the downward spiral we're on. If he trades for a big name like Duchene or RNH and gives up future assets but doesn't win a Cup, then his plan failed. If he doesn't make any move for a big name, then he's basically announced that his plan to build around Weber is shot. Hence, no-man's land. Right now, Bergevin's only card to play is really to be all-in on this season and next. He's painted himself in a corner with the terrible Subban/Eller moves and now he's got nowhere to turn. It's a problem for us as fans, because a GM who's stuck and fearing for his job is the type of GM who's going to end up doing something stupid and give away more than he should in a trade in desperation.

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I think a GM should acquire the players the coach wants, rather than get players he wants and fit them into the coach's system.

After all, the coach decides the team's playing style, system and tactics. A GM only knows players through scouting reports or by reputation. A coach has actual working experience with array of players through his career.

MB should consult CJ to target the players CJ wants to play his system, instead of his own preferences. This way, coach has no excuses for failure.

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41 minutes ago, PuckPundit said:

I think a GM should acquire the players the coach wants, rather than get players he wants and fit them into the coach's system.

After all, the coach decides the team's playing style, system and tactics. A GM only knows players through scouting reports or by reputation. A coach has actual working experience with array of players through his career.

MB should consult CJ to target the players CJ wants to play his system, instead of his own preferences. This way, coach has no excuses for failure.

Isn't this what got us into trouble with Therrien in the first place? :P

Obviously a GM and coach should be on roughly the same page (otherwise why hire him as your coach) but to my mind the GM's only job is to get the players he thinks will make up the best team and then to find a coach that matches his vision.

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28 minutes ago, Manatee-X said:

Isn't this what got us into trouble with Therrien in the first place? :P

Obviously a GM and coach should be on roughly the same page (otherwise why hire him as your coach) but to my mind the GM's only job is to get the players he thinks will make up the best team and then to find a coach that matches his vision.

It only got us into trouble because Therrien is Therrible.   If you have a good coach, you theoretically should be able to take his input & build a good roster for him. That doesnt mean getting poor returns on your trades though.  If Weber was really considered to be a better fit for this team than Subban thats one thing but we should have least gotten a high end prospect or 1st rounder back with Weber to offset the age. 

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3 hours ago, maas_art said:

It only got us into trouble because Therrien is Therrible.   If you have a good coach, you theoretically should be able to take his input & build a good roster for him. That doesnt mean getting poor returns on your trades though.  If Weber was really considered to be a better fit for this team than Subban thats one thing but we should have least gotten a high end prospect or 1st rounder back with Weber to offset the age. 

Agreed, it is  the coach who is the warrior at ice level and who is familiar with his players strengths & weaknesses. CJ exceeds in skill and is very different from MT, and for this reason he should have a major input as to which players will suit him best with his own system.

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1 hour ago, Habs=stanleycup said:

Agreed, it is  the coach who is the warrior at ice level and who is familiar with his players strengths & weaknesses. CJ exceeds in skill and is very different from MT, and for this reason he should have a major input as to which players will suit him best with his own system.

Do remember though that he was the coach who agreed with his GM to let Seguin and Kessel both go because they lacked in defensive qualities.

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He won a Stanley Cup after getting rid of Kessel. Seguin was moved post cup win but was proving to be a cancer on the team. Dallas gave him a new start. I think it might be argued that in both cases Boston was right to make the trades ....

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9 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Well-summed up tweet from one of the HEOTP writers who said Bergevin is in no-man's land right now because of the Weber trade. When MB dealt Subban for Weber, he basically said my window to win a Cup is the next two years. Yet right now, he hasn't done enough to add to his core and make winning a Cup realistic. If he trades for spare parts, we're likely not going anywhere with the downward spiral we're on. If he trades for a big name like Duchene or RNH and gives up future assets but doesn't win a Cup, then his plan failed. If he doesn't make any move for a big name, then he's basically announced that his plan to build around Weber is shot. Hence, no-man's land. Right now, Bergevin's only card to play is really to be all-in on this season and next. He's painted himself in a corner with the terrible Subban/Eller moves and now he's got nowhere to turn. It's a problem for us as fans, because a GM who's stuck and fearing for his job is the type of GM who's going to end up doing something stupid and give away more than he should in a trade in desperation.

Agree 100%. Bergevin screwed up acquiring Shaw and Weber which cost us superior players in Eller and Subban. He made his own mess. Now we think he will fix things? I am terrified at what he might do now before the trade deadline. In my opinion I think this is much more than a one player fix to change this team around. I believe there are serious issues with respect to lack of character in some cases and lack of leadership amongst the players. They stuck the knife into P.K.'s back last year and got rid of him. This year they did the same thing to Therrien. When do these players have to accept some accountability? I am sure Patches is a nice enough guy and he is a terrific hockey player but his leadership skills have to be questioned at this point as team captain. What of Plekanec? I am told he was instrumental in helping get rid of PK ... what has he done this year?  

This team is a mess largely because of poor trades and judgement by Bergevin. He should not be allowed to mortgage the team's future by making moves out of desperation now. I have said this before that he should not make any more changes before season's end. Let's see what Claude can do with this bunch. At season's end Bergevin should be fired and a new GM search be made.

 

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1 hour ago, CaptWelly said:

Do remember though that he was the coach who agreed with his GM to let Seguin and Kessel both go because they lacked in defensive qualities.

Is there evidence that Julien had any input in either deal?  My understanding was that he wasnt super happy to give up on Seguin at the time. 

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I like the trade for Lowe. I am not sure how he is doing now but got to see him alot with the Oil Kings. He was a big strong kid and may need to work on his mobility. I think some of Bergevin's problem may come from trying to figure out what he has. This team is all over the place performance wise. I think we have aged a little quicker than anticipated and unless Julien can get a spark going with players like Plekanec the moves we need to make may include living or dying with some of our youth. The irony is we appear to be hitting a wall as a group making Bergevin's task that much more difficult. If Carolina has signalled  they are sellers with the release of Hainsey, I think going after, Stempniak is worth a late pick (or Desharnais) or if Dallas is done Sharp or Roussel might be able to add a spark for cheap.

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2 hours ago, ramcharger440 said:

Time to deliver! enough playing around get us the players we need to get the job done. if it is too hard perhaps you are not the right guy for this job.

I definitely agree he needs to do something.  The big problem i have is that we traded Subban for Weber but never filled the hole we had last year (#1 LD) and continue to scramble to find someone.  

I get that MB doesnt want to give up roster players or top prospects but we have 4 or 5 key players who most likely will never be as good as they are right now - its time to upgrade that first pairing. 

 

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1 minute ago, maas_art said:

I definitely agree he needs to do something.  The big problem i have is that we traded Subban for Weber but never filled the hole we had last year (#1 LD) and continue to scramble to find someone.  

I get that MB doesnt want to give up roster players or top prospects but we have 4 or 5 key players who most likely will never be as good as they are right now - its time to upgrade that first pairing. 

 

Then he's the wrong man for the job.

 

And hey Maas, I know you're an excellent artist but do you paint? I've got a living room that needs repainting.:)

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17 minutes ago, Regis22 said:

I think MB has messed up the D corps going forward . He gave away the one your true young super star we had  and the now the D is made up  of old, slow players

 

Agreed. There's not much left there. Markov is slow and past his prime, albeit having a good season. Weber is slow and past his prime to a lesser degree. Emelin is slow and not looking like he's going to have a prime. Beaulieu is inconsistent. The Habs failed to develop Tinordi, Pateryn, Nash, Dietz, and Thrower. They lost Barberio for nothing. And there's very little in Hamilton, with Redmond and then a couple of guys in Johnston and Hanley who look like absolute busts. Petry is really the only bright spot there, being the one guy who is good now AND likely to still be able to help us for the next few years. MB has a lot of stock placed in Sergachev and Juulsen, but it would be an understatement to say he could do to acquire a young defenceman who's already established as a top 4 player (along the lines of LIndholm, Nurse, Seth Jones, Ryan Murray, Ellis, etc.).

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Also just going to point out that MB was part of the Hockey Canada group that decided to exclude Subban on the basis of "we need an even number of righties and lefties, no exceptions" then broke that rule for Team Canada for other players. And now MB goes out and gets a 5th left-handed D man to go with only two righties. Either Bergevin's a giant hypocrite or he had a personal vendetta against Subban or both. As much as the Habs are my team, I hope Subban rips a hat trick on Thursday against us, just to prove a point.

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I like the addition of Jordie Benn. If we can get another veteran on the backend it would help. I wonder if this is part of a trade that sees a Beaulieu or other blueliner go as part of a package deal now. Jordie would appear to be an upgrade on Pateryn just looking at experience. Bergevin continues to be very measured and selective in the players he is going after.

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Sometimes I wonder if MB and his assistants ( rick Dudley , scott Mellanby , Larry Carriere )  have a long term plan for this team .

They have about 12 players that are 3 rd or 4 th liners on any other team

The D is decimated . There isn't one D man capable of carrying the puck out of his own zone .

When they go OT , with all the open space , the HABS have no D capable of doing what PK did last year .

Im not sure what this team is built for . If it's speed Im not seeing it

 

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9 minutes ago, Habberwacky said:

I like the addition of Jordie Benn. If we can get another veteran on the backend it would help. I wonder if this is part of a trade that sees a Beaulieu or other blueliner go as part of a package deal now. Jordie would appear to be an upgrade on Pateryn just looking at experience. Bergevin continues to be very measured and selective in the players he is going after.

If this move sets up an Emelin-for-RNH base to a subsequent trade, then it's brilliant. Jim Nill said Montreal only contacted him this morning about Benn though, so hard to figure out what the plan is. I think this was more just a wish to dispose himself of Pateryn and his wife.

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