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Claude Julien and staff 2016-17


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7 hours ago, PuckPundit said:

Why is Martinsen in the doghouse? :5155:

Only saw him in 2 games. Good in the first one as he should have been,,,,  trying to make an impression. Big drop off in the 2nd IMO. I'm not going to sweat who CJ moves in and out on the 4th line. As long as our best  are playing in the top 6 then it's all good to me. That was one of the major complaints we had about MT,,,, using 4th liners in the top 6 on a regular basis.

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3 hours ago, H_T_L said:

Only saw him in 2 games. Good in the first one as he should have been,,,,  trying to make an impression. Big drop off in the 2nd IMO. I'm not going to sweat who CJ moves in and out on the 4th line. As long as our best  are playing in the top 6 then it's all good to me. That was one of the major complaints we had about MT,,,, using 4th liners in the top 6 on a regular basis.

This.

 

I actually liked Martinsen more in the games he played than either Ott, and especially King, but im not going to ride julien for who he dresses on his 4th line.  I do, however, wonder why he hasnt asked to have Hudon called up yet, although maybe he has - MB is the guy who does the call ups & he certainly seems to be opposed to Hudon on this roster at present, for whatever reason... 

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3 hours ago, H_T_L said:

Only saw him in 2 games. Good in the first one as he should have been,,,,  trying to make an impression. Big drop off in the 2nd IMO. I'm not going to sweat who CJ moves in and out on the 4th line. As long as our best  are playing in the top 6 then it's all good to me. That was one of the major complaints we had about MT,,,, using 4th liners in the top 6 on a regular basis.

Yup kudos to CJ.

I hesitate to complain whatsoever against a coach who has brought back our winning ways, a broken team is now looking more like a team with confidence and becoming a contender.

I wouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth. As long a we're winning consistently, which we are, then I personally don't care which player he puts on which line and when.

 

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12 hours ago, H_T_L said:

Only saw him in 2 games. Good in the first one as he should have been,,,,  trying to make an impression. Big drop off in the 2nd IMO. I'm not going to sweat who CJ moves in and out on the 4th line. As long as our best  are playing in the top 6 then it's all good to me. That was one of the major complaints we had about MT,,,, using 4th liners in the top 6 on a regular basis.

Agreed. As opposed to Therrible Therrien, Julein actually has the big stuff right:

- the PK is finally playing good hockey

- the breakouts and zone entries are crisper and more controlled

- the lines make sense for the most part

On that last point, I'm happy that he ended up back with Lehkonen-Danault-Shaw, which has been one of our most effective lines. I'm happy he's got Galchenyuk going as a centerman, and that his play in the face-off circle and in the D zone have improved compared to where he was under Therrien. I'm not so focused on whether the top 3-4 guys are playing together so long as they're all in the top 6 and they're not playing with the likes of King or Martinsen or Flynn. The fact he's sticking with King in the line-up is odd to me and could certainly be rectified, but it's a small concern relative to the ones we had under Therrien.

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12 hours ago, PuckPundit said:

Early indications his current favourites are King, Emelin and Mitchell. Given infinite chances regardless of performance! :4845:

I think we have to cut him a little slack. 

He is still trying to figure out how to maximize this roster & clearly he sees holes. If it was earlier in the season i assume he'd go to MB and ask for some help but right now i think he's trying his best to see if he can get 'any more' out of certain players.  Plekanec is a perfect example - and in the last little bit it seems like Tomas has looked better.   If King and Emelin bounce back to where they have in the past, they are valuable players - although i agree that right now they're both performing  badly (albeit Emelin looked a lot better since his last healthy scratch). 

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21 hours ago, maas_art said:

I think we have to cut him a little slack. 

He is still trying to figure out how to maximize this roster & clearly he sees holes. If it was earlier in the season i assume he'd go to MB and ask for some help but right now i think he's trying his best to see if he can get 'any more' out of certain players.  Plekanec is a perfect example - and in the last little bit it seems like Tomas has looked better.   If King and Emelin bounce back to where they have in the past, they are valuable players - although i agree that right now they're both performing  badly (albeit Emelin looked a lot better since his last healthy scratch). 

A bigger concern should be what is going on with Pacioretty and Radulov... both players should be a force regardless of who centers that line... but are not.

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23 hours ago, Habs_Hockey_Nutz said:

A bigger concern should be what is going on with Pacioretty and Radulov... both players should be a force regardless of who centers that line... but are not.

I agree it is the top line that needs to develop some consistency. In the span of just a few days Bergevin provided much more dynamic options for our fourth line. The same alterations cannot happen that easily with our other three lines. Since the arrival of Ott, Shaw has turned into a more consistent checker and playmaker which has provided some solid checking be it with Lehkonen and Dannault or Galchenyuk.. We have developed some good pairings that should provide some choices for Julien as teams try to match up against us in the playoffs. Radulov's game appears  more suited to players with speed who can create open ice like a Dannault and Patches. Galchenyuk plays more like Radulov and having them together gives us some rushes and playmaking that doesn't always result in good scoring chances as they are not always on the same page. Our PP and top lines need to generate offence and our bottom lines should be creating  more turnovers. We appear a little weak on the boards as well, and this is a bit of a disgrace seeing  the size we have added. When we struggle we are not physically engaged and I am little disappointed in the lack of hitting, but this appears to be a bit of a trend in the league. Very few players on this team are hitting like they were earlier in the year. 

I do think Hudon and Carr are likely to return come playoff time offering a few more choices to Julien. I can see Mitchell and Ott becoming  regular fourth liners as we head to the playoffs with the wing or center positions being left open for one of McCarron, King or Flynn. King to me has done all the simple things to keep him in the line-up and has  never shown much else. He provides some experience and stability on a fourth which for us may not be enough. If we continue to struggle with scoring Julein may need find more ways of making this line more productive. I think Julien is still evaluating what he has and has been provided the players needed to meet the grind of the playoffs. But this team needs to find a spark from the PP or our top 6 as the only other alternative is to rely on Carey (which could be a lot worse) who is also still struggling to find his game.

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On 3/20/2017 at 11:20 AM, maas_art said:

This.

 

I actually liked Martinsen more in the games he played than either Ott, and especially King, but im not going to ride julien for who he dresses on his 4th line.  I do, however, wonder why he hasnt asked to have Hudon called up yet, although maybe he has - MB is the guy who does the call ups & he certainly seems to be opposed to Hudon on this roster at present, for whatever reason... 

Could this have anything to do with the expansion draft? If they were to call him up, does this mean that he would have to count as one of our protected players?

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1 hour ago, MuddyWaterMoose said:

Could this have anything to do with the expansion draft? If they were to call him up, does this mean that he would have to count as one of our protected players?

He has to be protected regardless. You get counted as a pro once you get to the AHL already, so NHL vs. AHL makes no difference at this point. We need to protect Hudon as is, and he's already had several good years in the AHL, so any scout for Vegas would/should know he's got more upside than a Plekanec or Emelin or so on.

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Perhaps then, they don't want to shine the spotlight on Hudon by bringing him up. If the team finds that they are unable to protect Hudon, he would be one of the riskiest players to leave vulnerable to the expansion draft. If he comes up and has success at the NHL level, it would make it more likely for him to be snatched up than if he is kept in the AHL. 

Obviously, I'm just speculating here and trying to make sense of him not being called up.

 

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43 minutes ago, MuddyWaterMoose said:

Perhaps then, they don't want to shine the spotlight on Hudon by bringing him up. If the team finds that they are unable to protect Hudon, he would be one of the riskiest players to leave vulnerable to the expansion draft. If he comes up and has success at the NHL level, it would make it more likely for him to be snatched up than if he is kept in the AHL. 

Obviously, I'm just speculating here and trying to make sense of him not being called up.

But the Habs have extra spots to protect forwards... as I've said, the only 4 must-protects are Pacan, Galchenyuk, Gallagher, and Danault. You can make an argument to protect Shaw and Byron. After that, who else needs to be retained? Plekanec? Nope, not with that contract. Lehkonen and McCarron are exempt. Radulov is a UFA. So who are we hiding Hudon behind? Mitchell? Flynn? Terry? We have plenty of room to protect Hudon, whether he's in the AHL or NHL. May as well make use of him.

 

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1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

But the Habs have extra spots to protect forwards... as I've said, the only 4 must-protects are Pacan, Galchenyuk, Gallagher, and Danault. You can make an argument to protect Shaw and Byron. After that, who else needs to be retained? Plekanec? Nope, not with that contract. Lehkonen and McCarron are exempt. Radulov is a UFA. So who are we hiding Hudon behind? Mitchell? Flynn? Terry? We have plenty of room to protect Hudon, whether he's in the AHL or NHL. May as well make use of him.

 

I assume that Vegas will have affiliate teams in the AHL and ECHL... will the expansion draft include those teams as well?

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CJ has been able to do what MT wasn't able to do for the first 2/3 of the season:

- he has Gallagher going

- he has Plekanec going

- he has Shaw going

- he has Beaulieu going

- he has Petry back to where he should be

- and he's done it without losing Pacioretty, Radulov, Danault, Lehkonen, Markov, or Weber

Julien also has marked improvements in special teams, breakouts, controlled exits/entries, and high-danger scoring chances for and against. He has stability with his lines. Everything we complained about with Therrien, Julien has just about fixed.

The two complaints would remain failure to develop/play Galchenyuk as a #1 center and the disaster that is the 4th line when it features Ott and mostly Dwight King (one of the least capable players I have seen play for the Habs in recent year but who still seems to be getting a chance to play without deserving it). Otherwise, Julien has vindicated every single complaint about Therrien and proven just how bad a coach MT really was.

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3 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

CJ has been able to do what MT wasn't able to do for the first 2/3 of the season:

- he has Gallagher going

- he has Plekanec going

- he has Shaw going

- he has Beaulieu going

- he has Petry back to where he should be

- and he's done it without losing Pacioretty, Radulov, Danault, Lehkonen, Markov, or Weber

Julien also has marked improvements in special teams, breakouts, controlled exits/entries, and high-danger scoring chances for and against. He has stability with his lines. Everything we complained about with Therrien, Julien has just about fixed.

The two complaints would remain failure to develop/play Galchenyuk as a #1 center and the disaster that is the 4th line when it features Ott and mostly Dwight King (one of the least capable players I have seen play for the Habs in recent year but who still seems to be getting a chance to play without deserving it). Otherwise, Julien has vindicated every single complaint about Therrien and proven just how bad a coach MT really was.

Agreed, it's nice to finally have some competence behind the bench.

Claude Julien seems to really like his 4th line though:

“We know we have a great goaltender,” Claude Julien said during his postgame press conference. “What we have right now is Marc (general manager Bergevin) did a great job getting some depth."

“You’ve seen me rotate guys in and out,” the coach added. “And I don’t think anybody has disappointed anybody."

“Look at our fourth line tonight. They could have had two three goals. They were that good.”

http://www.hockeyinsideout.com/news/about-last-night-canadiens-stomp-florida-6-2

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4 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

CJ has been able to do what MT wasn't able to do for the first 2/3 of the season:

- he has Gallagher going

- he has Plekanec going

- he has Shaw going

- he has Beaulieu going

- he has Petry back to where he should be

- and he's done it without losing Pacioretty, Radulov, Danault, Lehkonen, Markov, or Weber

Julien also has marked improvements in special teams, breakouts, controlled exits/entries, and high-danger scoring chances for and against. He has stability with his lines. Everything we complained about with Therrien, Julien has just about fixed.

The two complaints would remain failure to develop/play Galchenyuk as a #1 center and the disaster that is the 4th line when it features Ott and mostly Dwight King (one of the least capable players I have seen play for the Habs in recent year but who still seems to be getting a chance to play without deserving it). Otherwise, Julien has vindicated every single complaint about Therrien and proven just how bad a coach MT really was.

Agree on all points.  On your two criticisms, my thoughts: 
- I think there must be something going on behind the scenes for two separate coaches (albeit, one not very good one) to have concerns with him at 1C.  The difference - and a huge one, however - is that Julien actually sat down and talked with Chuck and seemed to have him comfortable with the decision.  He also left the door wide open to see Chucky move back.  I dont think its any coincidence that the way he's built the lines, if you were to swap danalt & chucky you'd re-unite our best third line in recent memory, leading me to believe you may see Chucky back at 1C, perhaps even by the post season. 

- The fourth line is definitely not the best we've seen.  However, with Julien FINALLY getting us a competent top 9, it becomes less important for that 4th to be as effective.  Defensively they've been ok, although you probably cant count on any offence from them.  I think Julien wants King and Ott in the lineup as PKers. 

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8 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

CJ has been able to do what MT wasn't able to do for the first 2/3 of the season:

- he has Gallagher going

- he has Plekanec going

- he has Shaw going

- he has Beaulieu going

- he has Petry back to where he should be

- and he's done it without losing Pacioretty, Radulov, Danault, Lehkonen, Markov, or Weber

Julien also has marked improvements in special teams, breakouts, controlled exits/entries, and high-danger scoring chances for and against. He has stability with his lines. Everything we complained about with Therrien, Julien has just about fixed.

The two complaints would remain failure to develop/play Galchenyuk as a #1 center and the disaster that is the 4th line when it features Ott and mostly Dwight King (one of the least capable players I have seen play for the Habs in recent year but who still seems to be getting a chance to play without deserving it). Otherwise, Julien has vindicated every single complaint about Therrien and proven just how bad a coach MT really was.

Agreed about Galchenyuk, but it seems to be a maturity issue with him IMO.

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^^ But the thing about Galchenyuk is that all the numbers suggest he's been far better as a center than a winger. The whole face-off jazz is largely overrated and the defensive assignments will take some time to learn. I think Andrew Berkshire or Marc Dumont from HEOTP or someone did an analysis of Galchenyuk's production, and he was miles ahead as a centerman, except when he played with Pacioretty and Radulov. But it suggested that the problem was not Galchenyuk playing center but rather Galchenyuk playing with Radulov... when Galchenyuk centered Gallagher, his numbers went through the roof.

As for the 4th line, I don't think King or Ott have been spectacular on the PK. Ott has done some okay things to get noticed, albeit he isn't driving any type of possession or scoring chances. But King has been invisible and not very useful. Not seeing any reason whatsoever for his being here. I'm not sure why MB gave up a 3rd or 4th round pick to get him.

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27 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

^^ But the thing about Galchenyuk is that all the numbers suggest he's been far better as a center than a winger. The whole face-off jazz is largely overrated and the defensive assignments will take some time to learn. I think Andrew Berkshire or Marc Dumont from HEOTP or someone did an analysis of Galchenyuk's production, and he was miles ahead as a centerman, except when he played with Pacioretty and Radulov. But it suggested that the problem was not Galchenyuk playing center but rather Galchenyuk playing with Radulov... when Galchenyuk centered Gallagher, his numbers went through the roof.

As for the 4th line, I don't think King or Ott have been spectacular on the PK. Ott has done some okay things to get noticed, albeit he isn't driving any type of possession or scoring chances. But King has been invisible and not very useful. Not seeing any reason whatsoever for his being here. I'm not sure why MB gave up a 3rd or 4th round pick to get him.

Funny how the whole dynamics of individual players can change under a new coach. On the whole though I see a transformation for the better with this team under CJ in the short time that he has had. We are still evolving and for the better.

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1 hour ago, Habs=stanleycup said:

Funny how the whole dynamics of individual players can change under a new coach. On the whole though I see a transformation for the better with this team under CJ in the short time that he has had. We are still evolving and for the better.

The team as a whole is 100 times better under Julien. But Galchenyuk's role on the team is just as murky as it was before. It's still very unclear to me whether they see him as a center or winger down the line and where in the line-up he fits. He can't stay on the 3rd line indefinitely. He's a top 6 player, he's the only scoring center we actually have on the team, and yet he's playing 3rd line wing. Right now, I wouldn't touch the Plekanec line, as we finally have him and Gallagher going. But we need to find a way to get Galchenyuk going again... I'd maybe look at reuniting him with Pacioretty but not Radulov.

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2 hours ago, Habs=stanleycup said:

Thanks CJ. Great job in turning this team around!!! :5187:

I have no doubt that if we'd stuck with Therrien, we'd be battling for a playoff spot at this point and possibly be on the outside looking in. The coaching change took care of removing the weakest link on the team and that has paid dividends.

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22 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

I have no doubt that if we'd stuck with Therrien, we'd be battling for a playoff spot at this point and possibly be on the outside looking in. The coaching change took care of removing the weakest link on the team and that has paid dividends.

This. 

 

 

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