Jump to content
The Official Site of the Montréal Canadiens
Canadiens de Montreal

Claude Julien and staff 2016-17


habs_93
 Share

Recommended Posts

Again, so what if it is a cover up and they are not telling us the truth? it is a privately owned company they have no obligation to tell us anything just as we can chose to be fans or not. the media has long made mountains out of molehills in this city when it comes to the Habs at the end of the day if they come out flat and lose at the start of the year MT will be gone if we win he won't. I am sure all teams lie and cover up stupid things people say or do as they are only human and even public figures who try to hold themselves to a higher standard screw up regularly so if Patches and MT can work together and get along none of this changes anything.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Again, so what if it is a cover up and they are not telling us the truth? it is a privately owned company they have no obligation to tell us anything just as we can chose to be fans or not. the media has long made mountains out of molehills in this city when it comes to the Habs at the end of the day if they come out flat and lose at the start of the year MT will be gone if we win he won't. I am sure all teams lie and cover up stupid things people say or do as they are only human and even public figures who try to hold themselves to a higher standard screw up regularly so if Patches and MT can work together and get along none of this changes anything.

for a team that preaches character maybe their coach and GM should look in the mirror

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's not a long list of captains and I didn't think the leadership was very good. Therrien may not be that far off and I am pretty sure Patches will tell you he struggled especially without Carey. If MT's evaluation is true then he has only one way to go and that is to get better. Last year may have been the perfect storm of inadequacy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So let me understand , when MT became coach he wanted to make PK a better person and a better player . PK is very vocal, flamboyant etc and likes to carry the puck. That's what made him successful and the player that he is but yet when PK tried to do things if they didn't work out he was deemed selfish and not playing a team game

Now we have a new guy , and it's OK to play the way he does , because that's how he became the player that he did .

So it's OK to to get a stupid penalty. Anyone else last year would have been nailed to the bench

http://montrealgazette.com/sports/hockey/nhl/montreal-canadiens/stu-cowan-canadiens-andrew-shaw-deserves-a-suspension

On my side, I’m not going to be the guy right now to cut his energy, his passion,” coach Michel Therrien said after practice Wednesday. “This is how he became the player that he is. This is his first game. He still needs to play with a lot of passion and I’m sure when it’s going to happen during the course of the season, he’ll be a bit more cautious.

“He’s a gamer,” Therrien added. “You need those type of players in a hockey team. He brings exactly what we were looking for. But in the meantime, you don’t want them to cross the line.”

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So let me understand , when MT became coach he wanted to make PK a better person and a better player . PK is very vocal, flamboyant etc and likes to carry the puck. That's what made him successful and the player that he is but yet when PK tried to do things if they didn't work out he was deemed selfish and not playing a team game

Now we have a new guy , and it's OK to play the way he does , because that's how he became the player that he did .

So it's OK to to get a stupid penalty. Anyone else last year would have been nailed to the bench

http://montrealgazette.com/sports/hockey/nhl/montreal-canadiens/stu-cowan-canadiens-andrew-shaw-deserves-a-suspension

On my side, I’m not going to be the guy right now to cut his energy, his passion,” coach Michel Therrien said after practice Wednesday. “This is how he became the player that he is. This is his first game. He still needs to play with a lot of passion and I’m sure when it’s going to happen during the course of the season, he’ll be a bit more cautious.

“He’s a gamer,” Therrien added. “You need those type of players in a hockey team. He brings exactly what we were looking for. But in the meantime, you don’t want them to cross the line.”

I don't know how else to explain this but to say that Michel Therrien had a personal vendetta against PK Subban. Subban is 10 times the player Shaw is and yet he got hammered by his coach for everything, sometimes for things that weren't even his fault (e.g. the goal against us in the Colorado game). How Therrien treated and treats various players is indefensible, not just on a hockey level and what's best for our team but on a personal level. The Shaw story just further shows how he favors certain players not based on facts or on-ice play but based on his own storylines that he's created for them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So Marc Bergevin did an interview last night where he said he feels he is a better GM today than he was 6 months ago, on account of his involvement with Team Canada. However, he added that he will not take anything he learned with Team Canada to apply to the Habs, saying he already has his plan in place and doesn't want to deviate from that. He completed this statement by saying he felt he has a great coach in Therrien and that last year was a bump in the road, with the Habs set to get back on track with Carey's return.

 

So many problems here...

 

1. If you're a better GM today than 6 months ago, why did you make the Subban trade? That tells us you're not doing a very good job now.

2. If you think you're better because of Team Canada but then don't apply anything to your role as the Habs GM, then are you really any better off?

3. Thinking Therrien is a "great coach" and that Carey will fix all the issues... wow.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

So Marc Bergevin did an interview last night where he said he feels he is a better GM today than he was 6 months ago, on account of his involvement with Team Canada. However, he added that he will not take anything he learned with Team Canada to apply to the Habs, saying he already has his plan in place and doesn't want to deviate from that. 

And who says they are better for their involvement in a project but will not take anything they learned and apply it toi their current job

Better off just not saying anything . IMO you make yourself  sound stupid

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 9/30/2016 at 4:34 PM, BigTed3 said:

So Marc Bergevin did an interview last night where he said he feels he is a better GM today than he was 6 months ago, on account of his involvement with Team Canada. However, he added that he will not take anything he learned with Team Canada to apply to the Habs, saying he already has his plan in place and doesn't want to deviate from that. He completed this statement by saying he felt he has a great coach in Therrien and that last year was a bump in the road, with the Habs set to get back on track with Carey's return.

 

So many problems here...

 

1. If you're a better GM today than 6 months ago, why did you make the Subban trade? That tells us you're not doing a very good job now.

2. If you think you're better because of Team Canada but then don't apply anything to your role as the Habs GM, then are you really any better off?

3. Thinking Therrien is a "great coach" and that Carey will fix all the issues... wow.

 
 
 
 

This is just the height of arrogance.  He's basically saying that he knows better than all those great hockey minds involved in hockey Canada when it comes to team building. It's also very contradictory if he learned alot why wouldn't he apply this new knowledge to make the team better.   My God I thought Gauthier was arrogant but this guy takes the cake, 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Lizardking89 said:

This is just the height of arrogance.  He's basically saying that he knows better than all those great hockey minds involved in hockey Canada when it comes to team building. It's also very contradictory if he learned alot why wouldn't he apply this new knowledge to make the team better.   My God I thought Gauthier was arrogant but this guy takes the cake, 

Looking back, I'm not sure Gauthier was particularly arrogant. Secretive? Absolutely. He wanted to run an airtight organization. With how toxic and worthless most of the hockey media is (to say nothing about that of Quebec), who can blame him?

In some ways, we've gone from one extreme to another. Now we've got 24CH, a coach off l'Antichambre, and a used car salesman as a GM. Other teams have found a way to forge a happy medium. It sure would be nice if we could, too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, habs_93 said:

Looking back, I'm not sure Gauthier was particularly arrogant. Secretive? Absolutely. He wanted to run an airtight organization. With how toxic and worthless most of the hockey media is (to say nothing about that of Quebec), who can blame him?

In some ways, we've gone from one extreme to another. Now we've got 24CH, a coach off l'Antichambre, and a used car salesman as a GM. Other teams have found a way to forge a happy medium. It sure would be nice if we could, too.

 

I personally didn't have much of an issue with Gauthier as a GM. People ragged on him for the in-game Cammalleri trade, but if you make the deal you want and it happens to be during a game, you're pulling him anyways so that he doesn't get hurt, so I don't see the big deal. I didn't like the actual trade he made nor did I care for the fact that he didn't shop Cammalleri around the league first, but then Bergevin claims he didn't speak to anyone about Subban either. Gauthier had a much better ability to assess talent than Bergevin, and while he was secretive, he didn't outright lie to us as much as Bergevin has done.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gauthier was let go because the bottom line was in jeopardy (and yeah the media which is a huge component of the marketing walked away from him). If Mr. Molson sees that happenning after this season MB will be very close to being let go. Obviously MT will go first and MB might survive a while longer. The real boss on this team is Carey. His play will dictate our success and that is how it should be when you have a player of his calibre. A healthy vibrant Price will provide a healthy vibrant organization. We are reaching a point where some other stars ie. Galchenyuk, Radulov, and Weber will play more important role, but not many teams have ever had this good a goalie. He doesn't just stop pucks he moves them very well. I think we moved the needle every year and impproved the team year over year in front of Carey, but we still have a ways to go. The next couple of seasons may allow for the depth of our forwards to develop. Our defence seems to be a little ahead of our forward group at this time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, Habberwacky said:

Gauthier was let go because the bottom line was in jeopardy (and yeah the media which is a huge component of the marketing walked away from him). If Mr. Molson sees that happenning after this season MB will be very close to being let go. Obviously MT will go first and MB might survive a while longer. The real boss on this team is Carey. His play will dictate our success and that is how it should be when you have a player of his calibre. A healthy vibrant Price will provide a healthy vibrant organization. We are reaching a point where some other stars ie. Galchenyuk, Radulov, and Weber will play more important role, but not many teams have ever had this good a goalie. He doesn't just stop pucks he moves them very well. I think we moved the needle every year and impproved the team year over year in front of Carey, but we still have a ways to go. The next couple of seasons may allow for the depth of our forwards to develop. Our defence seems to be a little ahead of our forward group at this time.

Historically, kingmakers for the Habs have pretty much been their goalies.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, habs_93 said:

Looking back, I'm not sure Gauthier was particularly arrogant. Secretive? Absolutely. He wanted to run an airtight organization. With how toxic and worthless most of the hockey media is (to say nothing about that of Quebec), who can blame him?

In some ways, we've gone from one extreme to another. Now we've got 24CH, a coach off l'Antichambre, and a used car salesman as a GM. Other teams have found a way to forge a happy medium. It sure would be nice if we could, too.

 

Yeah, you're right he wasn't arrogant as much as secretive and looking back in hindsight he actually didn't do a bad job when he was the GM.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7:24 of ice time to Scherbak

and

18: 37 to DD

during a meaningless Exhibition game . I guess some things never change .

You would think he would let the kids play and give them all the ice time possible but nope . I suspect Scherbak will get traded because he doesn't fit MT 's  type of player .

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Explaining why Hudon and Matteau were cut, said they didn't outperform Danault, Mitchell, Byron, Carr and Andrighetto. Gave same group twice

When asked what he needs from Lehkonen, Therrien said you shouldn't evaluate performance on goals and assists, which suggests he's liked him

Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, Regis22 said:

Explaining why Hudon and Matteau were cut, said they didn't outperform Danault, Mitchell, Byron, Carr and Andrighetto. Gave same group twice

When asked what he needs from Lehkonen, Therrien said you shouldn't evaluate performance on goals and assists, which suggests he's liked him

 

Personally I though Hudon did out-perform many of those players, specifically Danault, Carr, and Ghetto. Mitchell and Byron did well in the pre-season and I don't see ither getting cut, but Hudon was as good as any of the other youngsters, especially given how little chance he was given relative to some of them. Again, I don't see the obsession this team has with Danault. Solid player, but is he head and shoulder above Carr or Ghetto or Hudon or Lehkonen or McCarron? Absolutely not. So not sure why Danault has been given an automatic spot here...

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

 

Personally I though Hudon did out-perform many of those players, specifically Danault, Carr, and Ghetto. Mitchell and Byron did well in the pre-season and I don't see ither getting cut, but Hudon was as good as any of the other youngsters, especially given how little chance he was given relative to some of them. Again, I don't see the obsession this team has with Danault. Solid player, but is he head and shoulder above Carr or Ghetto or Hudon or Lehkonen or McCarron? Absolutely not. So not sure why Danault has been given an automatic spot here...

 

Surely it couldnt be politics and,or the francophone issue, same as giving more icetime for DD vs Scherbak

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Habs=stanleycup said:

Surely it couldnt be politics and,or the francophone issue, same as giving more icetime for DD vs Scherbak

 

Obviously not the only factor, or else Hudon would be playing more too though. And favoritism has been shown to Byron, Flynn, Weise, and other grinders who are English. Definitely feel like the Habs push stronger for Francophone players to play more and do well, but there's still an overriding "Therrien likes you or he does not" sentiment here, regardless of language.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

 

Obviously not the only factor, or else Hudon would be playing more too though. And favoritism has been shown to Byron, Flynn, Weise, and other grinders who are English. Definitely feel like the Habs push stronger for Francophone players to play more and do well, but there's still an overriding "Therrien likes you or he does not" sentiment here, regardless of language.

 

 

You got it at the end there Ted. I have been saying this for basically the entire time we have had this guy as coach.....there is no actual assessment or anything like that going on. that is why he is hated by 90% of the fanbase.

 

if he likes you, you play no matter what you do. you don't score, you must need more chances. you make a brutal mistake, you just need support.

on the other hand , if he doesn't like you, thats it for you. you can score , you can play as well as you want, you are pigeonholed wherever he has pigeonholed you and that's where you stay until he gets his BFF to trade you.

that is simply a fact of coach T. and there is no perceptible basis for it. some french guys get a million chances, some get zero. i dont believe there is anything more to it other than complete whim, which is just about as far from professional as it gets.

 

not only will we never win a thing with this regime, its going to take like 5-10 years to recover once they are gone

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I absolutely agree with you guys that Therrien plays favourites, and it absolutely bugs me.  With that said, I'd bet that you'd hear the same thing about their coach from the fan base of every team in the league.  Other coaches may not take it to some of the same extremes that Therrien does (i.e. blaming the loss on Subban when he fell) but coaches are always going to have players that they like or trust more for whatever reason.  Maybe it's with veteran players, maybe it's with players that the coach has coached or won with in the past - whatever it is, I think you're going to find that no coach (or in fact no person) is going to be able to evaluate his team on a purely objective basis.  You or I would do the same thing.

 

What makes Therrien an awful coach, in my opinion, isn't that he has favourites but its that he picks his favourites based on the wrong things.  His seeming obsession with grit and truculence and his definition of effort is what's hurting the team.  His opinion that making "safe" plays off the boards is the best strategy is what's hurting the team.  If he played favourites with Price or with Subban or with Galchenyuk or with Patches (okay, bad example :P) it wouldn't seem to be nearly the problem that it is when he does it with Desharnais or Shaw or Weisse.  I would say that Brendan Gallagher is absolutely one of the coach's favourites, but that doesn't really bother anybody because Gally has largely shown himself to be deserving of his ice time and opportunities.

 

So yes it's a problem for the team when the likes of Subban and Eller and Galchenyuk get the short end of the stick based on the coach's favouritism.  But the root of the problem isn't the favouritism, it's the fact that the coach wasn't able to identify or to properly use these players' talent.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well said, Jeff and Manatee.

It's one thing for a coach to have favorites, but it's a whole other for his strategy to just fly in the face of facts. For Therrien to say Weise or Flynn or Byron works hard, therefore I will play him in the top 6 isn't a logical conclusion. For him to call out Subban repeatedly instead of trying to coach him properly doesn't make sense. For him to acknowledge Desharnais' compete level as a reason for playing him 5 minutes more a night than Galchenyuk but then fail to point out Desharnais hadn't scored a goal in 30 games is a bit ridiculous. Therrien talks a big talk about teamwork and character and grit, but he has a coaching system which holds players to zero real accountability. If you're Subban or Eller or Briere or PAP or Sekac, you're held responsible for the team's failings for any small mistake. But if you're Pacioretty or Markov or Plekanec, you face no criticism no matter how big a mistake you make. The double standards drive fans crazy and absolutely have to drive players crazy too.

What's worse is that Therrien seems to make his mind up before even getting to coach the player. He hated Subban before he started and went about proving it. He has always loved Markov but coaches him like he's the Markov of ten years ago, not the player he has now. In Semin's case, even though he was driving possession well, he was cut because "he couldn't keep up with the game." The advanced stats showed that wasn't hurting him though, and in any case, if not keeping up with the speed of the game was an issue, then why did the coach insist on going with Markov, Murray, Bouillon, Moen, and others who were even slower than Semin. Therrien didn't like Semin, didn't want him there, and found the first easy excuse to get rid of him. There is no doubt in my mind Therrien allows his hockey judgment to be clouded by his personal first impression of players or even hearsay without forming his own opinions. For example, the first impression Andrew Shaw left many of us should have been that this is a guy who is disrespectful, unsportsmanlike, and not taking things seriously. Instead, Therrien laughed off his actions and insisted he's gritty and has character because that's the narrative Therrien wants to give him. I get coaches will have favorites but MT has taken things to a whole new level that's affecting the team negatively.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
On 10/2/2016 at 7:18 AM, BigTed3 said:

 

I personally didn't have much of an issue with Gauthier as a GM. People ragged on him for the in-game Cammalleri trade, but if you make the deal you want and it happens to be during a game, you're pulling him anyways so that he doesn't get hurt, so I don't see the big deal. I didn't like the actual trade he made nor did I care for the fact that he didn't shop Cammalleri around the league first, but then Bergevin claims he didn't speak to anyone about Subban either. Gauthier had a much better ability to assess talent than Bergevin, and while he was secretive, he didn't outright lie to us as much as Bergevin has done.

 

Yeah, the Cammalleri trade almost has to be taken off the books with Gauthier because we all knew he was getting fired when it happened - it was a last ditch effort to do something - shake up the team perhaps - really one of his only panic moves.  

Other than that, he was actually doing a pretty darned good job at building a winner.  Most of the assets we have right now are because of the Gauthier-Gainey machine.  Makes you wonder what the two Gs think of the Eller and Subban moves. My guess, not happy with them. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...