H_T_L

The Trade Deadline

428 posts in this topic

Will we be active? What are our needs and whom can we afford?

This is the place to discuss all of that and the other various trade deals that go down from now until the March 1 deadline.

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From TSN....

Centre Addition?

The Montreal Canadiens are all in ahead of the trade deadline, now the question is where to add to the lineup.

Jack Todd of the Montreal Gazette writes the team's biggest need is at centre, where their depth has been tested this season.

Alex Galchenyuk and David Desharnais have both missed significant time this season and Todd writes that Tomas Plekanec "is showing the miles." He adds that Torrey Mitchell is the team's lone centre who can consistently win draws.

While the dream addition for Canadiens fans would be Matt Duchene, Todd believes the likely price of Nathan Beaulieu, a first-round pick and a high-end prospect would be too much to pay.

He believes Martin Hanzal of the Arizona Coyotes would be better a fit in Montreal, but notes the price tag may include 2013 first-round pick Michael McCarron.

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Maybe we could package some of the kinots?

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18 minutes ago, HabsRuleForever said:

Maybe we could package some of the kinots?

Can't,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, NMC. 

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Flyers continue to scratch Gostisbehere. Wouldn't mind putting in an offer for him and Couturier. I even wonder if they'd be interested in swapping Ghost for Emelin straight up.

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2 hours ago, H_T_L said:

From TSN....

Centre Addition?

The Montreal Canadiens are all in ahead of the trade deadline, now the question is where to add to the lineup.

Jack Todd of the Montreal Gazette writes the team's biggest need is at centre, where their depth has been tested this season.

Alex Galchenyuk and David Desharnais have both missed significant time this season and Todd writes that Tomas Plekanec "is showing the miles." He adds that Torrey Mitchell is the team's lone centre who can consistently win draws.

While the dream addition for Canadiens fans would be Matt Duchene, Todd believes the likely price of Nathan Beaulieu, a first-round pick and a high-end prospect would be too much to pay.

He believes Martin Hanzal of the Arizona Coyotes would be better a fit in Montreal, but notes the price tag may include 2013 first-round pick Michael McCarron.

The listed cost here of being able to acquire Matt Duchene, to me is not too high a price to pay if it gives us a 60% chance or more to finally secure the Cup this season. Heck why not throw DD in there as well in order to free up the continued handicap it creates in our lineups.

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I'm concerned whether a trade(s?) would be a rental or long term. A rental only works if you're going for the cup now, or if there's a possibility of a long term signing. From what I've seen so far this season, there's no way we could win a cup with the "mentality" I''ve/we've seen this season, even if we did make a major trade. 

 

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4 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Flyers continue to scratch Gostisbehere. Wouldn't mind putting in an offer for him and Couturier. I even wonder if they'd be interested in swapping Ghost for Emelin straight up.

Do you want us to become even bigger pansies than what we are? 

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14 minutes ago, kinot-2 said:

I'm concerned whether a trade(s?) would be a rental or long term. A rental only works if you're going for the cup now, or if there's a possibility of a long term signing. From what I've seen so far this season, there's no way we could win a cup with the "mentality" I''ve/we've seen this season, even if we did make a major trade. 

 

Good point regarding the 'mentality' of the coaching staff. With that kind of defeatist attitude, it certainly indicates to the players that we have no leadership worthy of taking us to the Cup, nor seemingly interested in doing so, therefore no amount of good trades could ultimately remedy this in the end if that's the case.

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The idea that Beaulieu and a 1st is too much for Duchene is insane to me. Beaulieu is great but he isn't the kind of player you hum and haw over if you have the change to bring in Matt Duchene for a playoff run and then two more full seasons. Duchene is 26 and signed for 2 more years at $6M, it's not a rental and he's a very good player. Of course I'd rather trade futures but if Beaulieu is what it takes you can find a replacement rental as well. IMO the Habs need to go all in. Price and Pacioretty are signed for 1 and 2 more years at 6.5/4.5, to retain those guys as UFAs you'd be spending basically double for guys that are already 30, and if you're waiting around for Sergachev then Markov is gone and Weber is 35 so you probably don't have a net positive compared to right now. 

It's not ideal that the Habs have to go all in right now but the Price/Pacioretty contracts and Weber's age means the clock is ticking. Price and Pacioretty are in their prime signed for 6.5 and 4.5, that's insanely good value. Go all in now and maximize that value instead of frittering away their primes with Danault/Desharnais/aging Plekanec in the top 6. The Habs aren't "contenders"/favourites but IMO a Duchene trade at least makes them a credible dark horse and Price is good enough that you have to take that chance. If you trade for Duchene and it doesn't work out at least you can say you took a shot and went down swinging.

It will be so disappointing if Martin Hanzal (who isn't better than Plekanec or Danault) or some other bargain bin half measure is the big move. Imagine looking back on that in 10 years, Price/Pacioretty/Weber/Galchenyuk/Gallagher/Radulov/Petry all in their primes and instead of going all in the team wasted it on bargain bin mediocrity. I'll be livid if they trade for Hanzal and move Galchenyuk to the wing.

Edited by Noob616
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3 minutes ago, Noob616 said:

The idea that Beaulieu and a 1st is too much for Duchene is insane to me. Beaulieu is great but he isn't the kind of player you hum and haw over if you have the change to bring in Matt Duchene for a playoff run and then two more full seasons. Duchene is 26 and signed for 2 more years at $6M, it's not a rental and he's a very good player. Of course I'd rather trade futures but if Beaulieu is what it takes you can find a replacement rental as well. IMO the Habs need to go all in. Price and Pacioretty are signed for 1 and 2 more years at 6.5/4.5, to retain those guys as UFAs you'd be spending basically double for guys that are already 30, and if you're waiting around for Sergachev then Markov is gone and Weber is 35 so you probably don't have a net positive compared to right now. 

It's not ideal that the Habs have to go all in right now but the Price/Pacioretty contracts and Weber's age means the clock is ticking. Price and Pacioretty are in their prime signed for 6.5 and 4.5, that's insanely good value. Go all in now and maximize that value instead of frittering away their primes with Danault/Desharnais/aging Plekanec in the top 6. The Habs aren't "contenders"/favourites but IMO a Duchene trade at least makes them a credible dark horse and Price is good enough that you have to take that chance. If you trade for Duchene and it doesn't work out at least you can say you took a shot and went down swinging.

It will be so disappointing if Martin Hanzal (who isn't better than Plekanec or Danault) or some other bargain-bin half measure is the big move. Imagine looking back on that in 10 years, Price/Pacioretty/Weber/Galchenyuk/Gallagher/Radulov/Petry all in their primes and instead of going all in the team wasted it on bargain bin mediocrity.

All good points, Noob, but, re the bolded part, I think we would regret it in 4-5 years, not 10. At that point we would be in full rebuild mode, with, hopefully, a new coach. 

And I and some other members aren't getting any younger. 

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6 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Flyers continue to scratch Gostisbehere. Wouldn't mind putting in an offer for him and Couturier. I even wonder if they'd be interested in swapping Ghost for Emelin straight up.

Quite possible. Emelin is "proven" according to some while Gostisbehere is still essentially a work in progress.     Id jump at the chance because if we agree that Weber and Petry are bonefide top 4 dmen Id be absolutely shocked if we couldnt find 2 other top four between Beau, Ghost, Juulsen and Sergachev. 

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47 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Quite possible. Emelin is "proven" according to some while Gostisbehere is still essentially a work in progress.     Id jump at the chance because if we agree that Weber and Petry are bonefide top 4 dmen Id be absolutely shocked if we couldnt find 2 other top four between Beau, Ghost, Juulsen and Sergachev. 

Lining up next year if we can make that swap:

Gostisbehere-Weber

Sergachev-Petry

Beaulieu-Pateryn

Nesterov

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That being said, with the expansion draft, you probably need to protect 4 D men (go the 8 skaters route) to keep both Ghost and Beaulieu. But that's frankly completely plausible if we don't acquire any more key forwards and don't re-sign Radu before the draft (which would be the smart thing to do). You protect Weber, Petry, Ghost, Beau, Pacman, Galch, Gallagher, and Danault. And if you lose Byron or Shaw or Plekanec then I honestly don't think any of those are the end of the world. Sing Radulov and you end up being stuck, because then you probably have to protect 7 forwards and 3 D, and then you lose Beaulieu or Ghost (or Emelin if you don't make that trade).

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16 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

That being said, with the expansion draft, you probably need to protect 4 D men (go the 8 skaters route) to keep both Ghost and Beaulieu. But that's frankly completely plausible if we don't acquire any more key forwards and don't re-sign Radu before the draft (which would be the smart thing to do). You protect Weber, Petry, Ghost, Beau, Pacman, Galch, Gallagher, and Danault. And if you lose Byron or Shaw or Plekanec then I honestly don't think any of those are the end of the world. Sing Radulov and you end up being stuck, because then you probably have to protect 7 forwards and 3 D, and then you lose Beaulieu or Ghost (or Emelin if you don't make that trade).

They "could" do a handshake deal before then, couldn't they?

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41 minutes ago, kinot-2 said:

They "could" do a handshake deal before then, couldn't they?

Apparently the last expansion draft had lots of sneaky stuff and the NHL is going to crack down on any circumvention. No idea what the penalty would be, but even under that hypothetical it would almost certainly still be worth taking whatever penalty and securing both Beaulieu and Gostisbehere while guaranteeing Radulov. 

I don't see a trade centered around Gostisbehere-Emelin happening, but then again you can never underestimate how much NHL people overvalue steady grit/defense/experience so who knows. 

Edited by Noob616
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8 minutes ago, Noob616 said:

Apparently the last expansion draft had lots of sneaky stuff and the NHL is going to crack down on any circumvention. No idea what the penalty would be, but even under that hypothetical it would almost certainly still be worth taking whatever penalty and securing both Beaulieu and Gostisbehere while guaranteeing Radulov. 

I don't see a trade centered around Gostisbehere-Emelin happening, but then again you can never underestimate how much NHL people overvalue steady grit/defense/experience so who knows. 

Is there not about a week, between the Vegas draft and the opening of UFA status?

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1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

That being said, with the expansion draft, you probably need to protect 4 D men (go the 8 skaters route) to keep both Ghost and Beaulieu. But that's frankly completely plausible if we don't acquire any more key forwards and don't re-sign Radu before the draft (which would be the smart thing to do). You protect Weber, Petry, Ghost, Beau, Pacman, Galch, Gallagher, and Danault. And if you lose Byron or Shaw or Plekanec then I honestly don't think any of those are the end of the world. Sing Radulov and you end up being stuck, because then you probably have to protect 7 forwards and 3 D, and then you lose Beaulieu or Ghost (or Emelin if you don't make that trade).

Agree with everything you are saying but you know as well as I do that the fox-hole buddies will protect gold ol boy like Shaw over a figure-skater like Beau any day of the week :6351:

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1 hour ago, Noob616 said:

Apparently the last expansion draft had lots of sneaky stuff and the NHL is going to crack down on any circumvention. No idea what the penalty would be, but even under that hypothetical it would almost certainly still be worth taking whatever penalty and securing both Beaulieu and Gostisbehere while guaranteeing Radulov. 

I don't see a trade centered around Gostisbehere-Emelin happening, but then again you can never underestimate how much NHL people overvalue steady grit/defense/experience so who knows. 


I don't recall seeing anything from the NHL about not re-signing your own UFA's before the draft... there's nothing to force teams to do it ahead of time, and it's fairly plausible that a guy like Radu could decide himself he doesn't want to re-sign before seeing what else is on the market. The NHL can't force potential UFA's to decide on their own fate before the expansion draft, there's no way the NHLPA would let that fly.

As for Ghost, I agree that from our end, it seems like he's a better player than Emelin. He's younger and he's a better point producer. But he's still only had one really strong year, and Philly has benched him repeatedly this year, so they clearly don't think he's ready to be a key part of their line-up just yet. In many ways, they're treating him like Therrien and Bergevin treated Subban. Philly seems intent on teaching him lessons and making him a scapegoat from time to time. And that gives us an opportunity to jump in and snatch him from them, because they clearly undervalue what he can bring.

On the other end of things, Philly loves physicality, and Emelin fits that bill. he's also having the best season of his career, and he's been featured on our number one D pairing for almost the entire season, so they have every reason to believe we value him quite significantly too. The set-up is frankly perfect for MB to call Philly and ask what they want for Ghost. And if Philly is interested in a swap of D men, MB can say he's got a top-pairing guy that he'd be willing to part with for a price. If Weber can fetch Subban and Larsson can fetch Hall, then Emelin for a player who's having trouble staying in his team's line-up is not out of the question by any means. The real consideration is whether MB can see the value Ghost brings over Emelin.

 

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I wouldn't make any drastic trades

After that great start this has been pretty much a .500 hockey club

 

No point mortgaging your future for an extra play off round

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I would still go after Duchene/Landeskog/RNH/Couturier/Gostisbehere/etc... those players are not rentals. They are proven NHL commodities but they are all young and potentially helpful to this team down the line, not just for a playoff run. I would not trade for a rental like Jagr, Gionta, Vanek, or Hanzal. But I would make a smart hockey trade to get a top-tier talent, and if that means sacrificing a younger player, then that's what it takes. Again, we have a weak division this year and we have the potential to make a move through the EC playoffs, despite the fact we are slumping now. If you acquire Duchene and you go out in the 1st or 2nd round, well he's still there next year to help you again and improve your chances during the Price/Pacioretty/Weber window MB has to operate within. Duchene right now makes more sense than Hudon/Juulsen/Scherbak/etc. if you don't think those youngsters are going to help you win during the Price era. If we still had Subban, you could convince me the window to win will be longer, but with Weber instead, there's not much point in trying to build a team to win in 3-5 years. If that's your goal, you may as well trade Markov, Plekanec, Weber, Price, and Pacioretty now and re-focus your core.

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41 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

 Again, we have a weak division this year and we have the potential to make a move through the EC playoffs, despite the fact we are slumping now.

We are a weak team amongst weak teams , we just happened to have that great start, so why bother

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/habs-aren-t-even-close-to-the-top-teams-in-the-east~1052107

 

After a 13-1-1 start, the Canadiens have basically played .500 hockey, and TH2N's Craig Button says the team isn't a Stanley Cup contender, and isn't even close to the top teams in the East

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We heard rumors last year that MB was trying to trade DD. A number of media members in the past 2 weeks have said they strongly suspect Habs have been offering DD around the league with no takers. We also know a similar player on the same contract in Ribeiro cleared waivers and had no takers when the Preds offered him around the league. All signs point to the Habs not being interested in re-signing Desharnais after this season, but I think they'll have trouble finding someone to take him this year, unless he's part of a deal whereby we have to ship salary back the other way to a team already out of the playoffs which has cap space to spare for the rest of the season.

My personal feeling is that DD might go the way of a Nathan Gerbe or Tomas Fleischmann or someone of that ilk. I think given no one seems to want him, he will definitely have to take a significant pay cut to stay in the NHL. I wouldn't be surprised if he's only offered a PTO to come to someone's camp and have to fight his way onto a roster. It also wouldn't surprise me if he ends up having to play in Europe next year. I think his value in the NHL has pretty much bottomed out.

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http://mynhltraderumors.com/nhl-rumors-buffalo-sabres-montreal-canadiens/2017/02/10/

On the Montreal Canadiens …

Chris Nichols of FanRag Sports: Darren Dreger on TSN 690 on if the Montreal Canadiens have been inquiring about players who could be available at the deadline. Dreger thinks they have been, and from talking to teams, it’s clear the Canadiens would like to add a center. Martin Hanzal rumors continue, and maybe there is some interest Brian Boyle or Matt Duchene.

“And also, it’s widely known that they’re still in the market for a defenseman. The Nesterov trade with the Tampa Bay Lighting was good from a depth perspective, but I think everybody can appreciate he’s a 5-6 guy. So if there’s a marginal upgrade, I think Bergevin would look at that as well.

“But because of the standings and because of so many teams in the mix, particularly in the East, the sellers certainly haven’t been defined yet. But we’ll get that clearly with March 1 looming.”

Dreger later talked about if the Canadiens could be showcasing Michael McCarron. Dreger thinks Bergevin doesn’t want to trade McCarron in any deal.

“And there’s no guarantee that Hanzal is going to be a considerable upgrade. I mean, they love his size at 6-foot-6. And yeah, he’d be good in that No. 2 spot potentially. But maybe they’re also giving McCarron another look. Sometimes patience in the best option. You don’t overpay to get a certain player or what have you, and you find out that you’ve got that player internally.”

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As an old know nothing fart, I stated at the beginning of last year I didn't like the way they were winning,,, it was all Price and this year said the same thing, it was all Price again. They either have to get rid of some of the non-effective scorers like Plekanec, Desharnais & Flynn or change the system, which means Therrien. Losing to the last place team then taken to overtime by the 2nd worst team leaves no impression they are anywhere near Stanley Cup contenders. They don't seem to get up the energy nor determination to beat the weak teams & get outplayed by the better ones. Sometimes even Price looks disinterested and the pressure of not being able to win games unless he keeps the goals against down to 2 or less, even against the worst teams, has to be super stressful & fatiguing.
My choice...... change the system, it ain't working.......MHO, the way I see it....

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