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Poll: Marc Bergevin


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General Manager: Marc Bergevin  

40 members have voted

  1. 1. Should Bergevin be Retained or Fired?

    • Retained
      6
    • Fired
      31
    • I don't know
      2
    • I don't care
      1


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2 hours ago, tony5775 said:

The worst thing that MB has did is to straddle us with Julien for 5 years at 5 million per. I seriously believe that MT would of got us by the Rangers if he had stayed. Not putting Plekanec on the first line as center makes no sense what so ever. The love affair with Daneault really needs to come to an end.

 

Coaching term and money is no big deal IMO. It doesn't affect the Cap whatsoever. Only matters to the owners bottom line. We could technically can him tomorrow and the only thing we lose out on is the possible increase in the price of beer.

Totally disagree about MT. I don't believe for a second that we would have even made the playoffs had MB not canned him. The team has obviously quit on him and his message was no longer relevant. We were in hang in mode at that point of the season and our once big lead was quickly evaporating. Even delaying it another month could have had us fighting for a wildcard spot.

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MB should be fired, but he won't be. Here's why. When an owner/president feels the team isn't living up to potential, they usually clean house, which means from the GM on down to the coaches. MB fired MT in midstream, so "if" (big one), MB got fired (and we've heard no rumours to that effect), the new GM would want his own people in place . I can't see a new GM coming in and leaving most of the coaching staff "as is". Would a new GM be satisfied with CJ,,, probably,, Muller,,,, sure, but most of the others should be gone,,, including the inept coach in SJ/Laval.

After all, there's only so many qualified Francophone coaches available.

I feel that Geoff will give Bergevin another year. 

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19 minutes ago, kinot-2 said:

MB should be fired, but he won't be. Here's why. When an owner/president feels the team isn't living up to potential, they usually clean house, which means from the GM on down to the coaches. MB fired MT in midstream, so "if" (big one), MB got fired (and we've heard no rumours to that effect), the new GM would want his own people in place . I can't see a new GM coming in and leaving most of the coaching staff "as is". Would a new GM be satisfied with CJ,,, probably,, Muller,,,, sure, but most of the others should be gone,,, including the inept coach in SJ/Laval.

After all, there's only so many qualified Francophone coaches available.

I feel that Geoff will give Bergevin another year. 

Well, I would be shocked to see him canned myself. I'm sure the majority of Hab fans would like to see it happen but his team just won the division and has a winning percentage. It's not the Sabres we're talking about here. As long as he keeps the team in the top 10 League wide, his job is likely secure, deservedly or not. Depressing,,,, isn't it?

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11 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

Well, I would be shocked to see him canned myself. I'm sure the majority of Hab fans would like to see it happen but his team just won the division and has a winning percentage. It's not the Sabres we're talking about here. As long as he keeps the team in the top 10 League wide, his job is likely secure, deservedly or not. Depressing,,,, isn't it?

The whole bunch should have be canned last year ,,,, Apr. 15th to be exact ,,, :D

 

But that would have meant Savard and his team would have made a mistake. 

 

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So here's how this debacle likely plays out:

- Bergevin gets a chance to prove he can do better and that he can turn things around with Julien, so he stays on for this coming season

- Price will either leave Mtl or more likely will re-up here for something like 6 years at 10M per season, handicapping our cap space thereafter. He likely continues to be an elite goalie for the next 3-4 years, but his peak days are coming to an end, which means there's an urgency to win now.

- Because MB knows his own neck is on the line soon and because he feels the need to win now (a feeling he's getting too late), he starts making big moves in a panic. I suspect Galchenyuk is traded. Maybe for Duchene. Maybe for Giroux. Maybe for another slightly older but more defensively responsible, less offensive centerman. Maybe he looks at trading Pacioretty or Beaulieu or Gallagher or Hudon or Juulsen. But I feel like MB is going to panic and go all in at a time when it's less clear he should.

 

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57 minutes ago, kinot-2 said:

MB should be fired, but he won't be. Here's why. When an owner/president feels the team isn't living up to potential, they usually clean house, which means from the GM on down to the coaches. MB fired MT in midstream, so "if" (big one), MB got fired (and we've heard no rumours to that effect), the new GM would want his own people in place . I can't see a new GM coming in and leaving most of the coaching staff "as is". Would a new GM be satisfied with CJ,,, probably,, Muller,,,, sure, but most of the others should be gone,,, including the inept coach in SJ/Laval.

After all, there's only so many qualified Francophone coaches available.

I feel that Geoff will give Bergevin another year. 

MB won't be fired because Molson has run out of Francophone general manager options. If MB was the best available at the time the cupboard is bare. 

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35 minutes ago, habs1952 said:

MB won't be fired because Molson has run out of Francophone general manager options. If MB was the best available at the time the cupboard is bare. 

I went back to 2012 and had a look at other possibilities for a GM ,but I only heard of 1. 

 

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3 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

So here's how this debacle likely plays out:

- Bergevin gets a chance to prove he can do better and that he can turn things around with Julien, so he stays on for this coming season

- Price will either leave Mtl or more likely will re-up here for something like 6 years at 10M per season, handicapping our cap space thereafter. He likely continues to be an elite goalie for the next 3-4 years, but his peak days are coming to an end, which means there's an urgency to win now.

- Because MB knows his own neck is on the line soon and because he feels the need to win now (a feeling he's getting too late), he starts making big moves in a panic. I suspect Galchenyuk is traded. Maybe for Duchene. Maybe for Giroux. Maybe for another slightly older but more defensively responsible, less offensive centerman. Maybe he looks at trading Pacioretty or Beaulieu or Gallagher or Hudon or Juulsen. But I feel like MB is going to panic and go all in at a time when it's less clear he should.

I think you're spot on - especially about the last part.  I sense some more panic moves this year & like last years' moves they may make us (on paper anyway) look like a better team but its tough to say if they will pay off. 

The thing is, if bergevin plays it smart he may well be able to find some key pieces and get us what we need for a cup in the next 1 - 2years.  Eric Engels wrote a very compelling article on why MB should do whatever he needs to do to resign Radu & Price (any cost on both) and bring in some over the top expensive help if necessary.  Engels' thinking is that we really only have 1 - 2 (maybe 3) years of a window so we'd better make it count.  Start the rebuilt in 2-3 seasons.  At that point, who cares if you have an overpriced weber or radu.  You can (maybe) trade them but if you do a REAL rebuild at that time, you dont really need to.  You trade away guys who do have real value (Patches, Price, maybe Gallagher or Petry) and you get as many high draft picks as possible. If you have to carry a couple of bloated contracts to go along with all your rookies, so be it. 

We do have some nice pieces right now. We have #1, 3-7 dmen quite nicely covered. We have a gaping hole at #2.   We are strong on the RW and, if Galchenyuk is indeed a LW, we're strong there too. We have two BIG holes down the middle.   Thats it though.  3 players - albeit, difficult players to trade for.


Can MB pull it off? I have no idea.   But I sure hope whatever he does, it isnt out of panic. I still think with Edmonton coming up short there's a real possibility to pry away a guy like RNH for a package including Emelin (who Chiarelli apparently covets). 

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^^ See, my feeling is that we don't have a gaping hole at the #2 D position. I think Petry is an adequate #2 guy and you can even make the case that he out-played Weber last season (albeit I thought Weber was superior in the playoffs). Markov had a good year last year too, although I think he's best suited to being a #4-5 guy because of the limitation on minutes, so to me, the hole is more for a #3 guy. We need a lefty who can play alongside Weber, and the problem with Weber vs Subban is that Weber doesn't skate that well and doesn't carry the puck, so you absolutely have to find a lefty who can do those two things. Maybe Sergachev fits the bill in 2-3 years, but the issue is that we don't have 2-3 years to wait on account of Weber/Markov's age and on account of the contract situations with Price/Pac/Radu/Galch.

As for a re-build, I don't think those work the same way now that they did 30-40 years ago. You can re-build quickly in the NHL now. Why? Players are bigger, stronger and faster at an earlier age. Most forwards hit their peaks now in the 22-23 year old range, at least for the elite scoring guys. So you can draft players or trade for picks and have those guys be your core within a few seasons. It's also harder for teams to retain their own players because of the cap; success requires you to dump players you can't fit under the cap, so those guys become available as free agents or via trade. So for a GM, if you can create cap space, you can add other team's cap problems onto your roster. Toronto's not going to be able to keep all their young guys for more than 3-4 years. Ditto Edmonton. Once McDavid gets paid and Draisaitl gets paid, is there going to be money to keep RNH and Eberle and so on? You can't pay RNH 6M to be your 3rd line center. Pittsburgh couldn't keep Jordan Staal behind Crosby and Malkin.

So MB can trade Weber and Gallagher and Price and Pacioretty and he can sit on top-tier prospects and picks and still be able to be very competitive within 3-4 years. It's quite doable. The issue with MB is that he wasted a prime opportunity to win in the past 2-3 years. We had the core to do it. Few teams had a line-up that featured a Price, Subban, and Pacioretty all in their prime. So yes, we can start re-piling up on younger guys, but it doesn't take away from the fact MB didn't seize his window and didn't even recognize the urgency to capture that.

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If we're worried about irrelevance for a prolonged period of time, particularly how the last decade has went for the Leafs and Oilers, then continuing on this organizational "stability" path is exactly the worst way to go about things. Both of those teams ground their gears in neutral precisely because the organizations refused to do a proper rebuild. We theoretically have this next season to win, and we can pump up our probability with a few moves. But if we do that, we're likely going to add not one but two or three more years to the process. Personally, I'd get started right now. But let's be real: no matter what, this team absolutely has to be rebuilding by 2018-19.

I have absolutely no faith in Marc Bergevin to do the right thing here, but I'm also not sure I expect much from his inevitable replacement.

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2 hours ago, habs_93 said:

If we're worried about irrelevance for a prolonged period of time, particularly how the last decade has went for the Leafs and Oilers, then continuing on this organizational "stability" path is exactly the worst way to go about things. Both of those teams ground their gears in neutral precisely because the organizations refused to do a proper rebuild. We theoretically have this next season to win, and we can pump up our probability with a few moves. But if we do that, we're likely going to add not one but two or three more years to the process. Personally, I'd get started right now. But let's be real: no matter what, this team absolutely has to be rebuilding by 2018-19.

I have absolutely no faith in Marc Bergevin to do the right thing here, but I'm also not sure I expect much from his inevitable replacement.

I agree H93 .. we need to get started with whatever strategy now!!!!!  There are major contract decisions to be made! What depresses me is people keep talking about all these theoretical moves the Canadiens should make to get better and expect Bergevin to execute on this strategy. Marc Bergevin has proven  himself to be uniquely unqualified to be a general manager in the NHL. He has no organizational strategy to improve development at our farm team level and was incapable of properly assessing how badly Michel Terrible was hurting this team's chances due to an unhealthy personal relationship with the coach which ended up costing us PK. This is compounded by the presence of a weak owner who has also apparently added a cloak of invisibility to his repertoire. Bergevin is incapable of properly developing talent within this organization or acquiring it from outside the organization. He has shown that over 5 years with this organization. We do not need a larger sample to prove the obvious! He seems intent on trading away whatever talent we do still have and is overly invested in the marginal players that he is overpaying in dollars and term ..... ie Shaw. This team is capped out and yet ... how many "elite" players would you suggest this team possesses? The cap has been horribly mismanaged and the sad part is I see Montreal media and even some fans trying to rationalize some of the decisions that have been taken ... ie $6MM to Plekanec, $3.9MM to Shaw, $4.1MM to Emelin .... JEEBEZ people ... wake up! I see people calling for $5.6MM to Markov next year and that we should pay Price $10MM to extend. We will not win anything paying a goaltender $10MM per year cap hit no matter who he is. And Markov is not worth any where near $5.6MM anymore and his bargaining power at 39 is minimal. His actual pay this year was around $4.25MM and that is what he is worth .....  

You cannot win the Stanley Cup without one or two ELITE talents plus a small core of very good players in support. We have one "elite" player and that is Price. Bergevin traded away our other "elite" player to downgrade to a very good player who is older and has less offensive upside. We have two very good players in Weber and Patches. We need at least two or three more Very Good players to compete.  If anyone thinks we are going to accomplish that with Bergevin at the helm I am afraid that they need to be prepared to be very disappointed.

 

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8 hours ago, eldag said:

I agree H93 .. we need to get started with whatever strategy now!!!!!  There are major contract decisions to be made! What depresses me is people keep talking about all these theoretical moves the Canadiens should make to get better and expect Bergevin to execute on this strategy. Marc Bergevin has proven  himself to be uniquely unqualified to be a general manager in the NHL. He has no organizational strategy to improve development at our farm team level and was incapable of properly assessing how badly Michel Terrible was hurting this team's chances due to an unhealthy personal relationship with the coach which ended up costing us PK. This is compounded by the presence of a weak owner who has also apparently added a cloak of invisibility to his repertoire. Bergevin is incapable of properly developing talent within this organization or acquiring it from outside the organization. He has shown that over 5 years with this organization. We do not need a larger sample to prove the obvious! He seems intent on trading away whatever talent we do still have and is overly invested in the marginal players that he is overpaying in dollars and term ..... ie Shaw. This team is capped out and yet ... how many "elite" players would you suggest this team possesses? The cap has been horribly mismanaged and the sad part is I see Montreal media and even some fans trying to rationalize some of the decisions that have been taken ... ie $6MM to Plekanec, $3.9MM to Shaw, $4.1MM to Emelin .... JEEBEZ people ... wake up! I see people calling for $5.6MM to Markov next year and that we should pay Price $10MM to extend. We will not win anything paying a goaltender $10MM per year cap hit no matter who he is. And Markov is not worth any where near $5.6MM anymore and his bargaining power at 39 is minimal. His actual pay this year was around $4.25MM and that is what he is worth .....  

You cannot win the Stanley Cup without one or two ELITE talents plus a small core of very good players in support. We have one "elite" player and that is Price. Bergevin traded away our other "elite" player to downgrade to a very good player who is older and has less offensive upside. We have two very good players in Weber and Patches. We need at least two or three more Very Good players to compete.  If anyone thinks we are going to accomplish that with Bergevin at the helm I am afraid that they need to be prepared to be very disappointed.

 

Wholeheartedly agreed eldag. MB & our Do-Nothing, nonchalant owner will yield us exactly zero Stanley Cups IMO. People are wasting their time with their wonderful suggestions on the best trades to make us a contender etc. MB has admitted publicly and continues to do so that it is hard to be a GM and it is hard to acquire the players needed to make us a contender and win. If that isn't a defeatist attitude I don't know what is, but apparently all is well with our owner. Completely out of touch with the fan-base and what it should mean to own and manage the greatest NHL team in history. What a waste. Another mediocre season awaits us.

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5 hours ago, Habs=stanleycup said:

Completely out of touch with the fan-base and what it should mean to own and manage the greatest NHL team in history. What a waste. Another mediocre season awaits us.

What has bothered me a lot for some time is the whole "we'll make it to the playoffs & then anything can happen" mantra this team has spouted for the last 5 years.


This is something a team like the oilers, that hasnt made the playoffs for a decade says. Not a division-winning team. Not a team with Carey Price. "anything can happen in the playoffs" is what the underdog says. Not the team that is so built to "win now" that they can swap two #1 defensmen, giving up 4 years, because we're going 'all in.'

 

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5 years - wins total of 3 play off rounds. Not impressive.

He has had 5 years to improve our center line. As of today, our center line is even worse than when he first took over. And by the sound of it, he doesn't even think it's much of an issue either. We had the worst collapse in our history last year and nothing really changed. It's not even a question to me, he should have been fired already. I was very disappointed by what I saw and heard from MB at his press conference, he seems genuinely clueless about how to get this team what it needs to go to the next level.

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4 hours ago, maas_art said:

"anything can happen in the playoffs" is what the underdog says. 

That's the problem of 'favourites' tag.  This team's best playoff year was when they were regarded as the underdogs in first two rounds by non-Montreal mainstream media and analysts. The players knew it themselves too and had to play hard.  Remember all the blocked shots and every player unquestionably sacrificing the body? They got into trouble in the ECF because at that point, they strangely were tagged as 'favourites' vs Rangers.  It put the pressure on the players because they probably swallowed the hype after eliminating the President's Trophy winners.

I remembered Alain Vigneault was very quick to seize the 'underdogs' label and play up the Habs to the media, even though his team had just eliminated Penguins to reach the ECF.      

This team simply performs better when it goes into any playoff series as the underdog because there is no better motivator than fear of being beaten badly if they don't play for their lives.

Although there's no way to precisely engineer it, for me the ideal finishing regular season position is 3rd in division.  Start each series on the road and shift the pressure to home team to win first 2 home games.    

Fortunately for next season, assuming the Atlantic competition stays healthy, they're unlikely to win the division.   

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What bugs me the most is that we haven't had a legit No1 center for what, +10 years? Going back to the lockout, I don't think we've had a better center than Saku Koivu on the team and nobody seems to be able to do something about it. This has been the team's most pressing need since forever, everyone is aware of the fact that we're terribly weak down the middle, yet our GM apparently doesn't care all that much and thinks we can win with Carey Price, the Man Mountain and Alex Galchenyuk on the wing.

I can't remember a Cup-winning team without a #1 center, yet there seem to be quite a few that didn't have an elite goalie on the roster.

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On 5/12/2017 at 0:13 PM, eldag said:

I agree H93 .. we need to get started with whatever strategy now!!!!!  There are major contract decisions to be made! What depresses me is people keep talking about all these theoretical moves the Canadiens should make to get better and expect Bergevin to execute on this strategy. Marc Bergevin has proven  himself to be uniquely unqualified to be a general manager in the NHL. He has no organizational strategy to improve development at our farm team level and was incapable of properly assessing how badly Michel Terrible was hurting this team's chances due to an unhealthy personal relationship with the coach which ended up costing us PK. This is compounded by the presence of a weak owner who has also apparently added a cloak of invisibility to his repertoire. Bergevin is incapable of properly developing talent within this organization or acquiring it from outside the organization. He has shown that over 5 years with this organization. We do not need a larger sample to prove the obvious! He seems intent on trading away whatever talent we do still have and is overly invested in the marginal players that he is overpaying in dollars and term ..... ie Shaw. This team is capped out and yet ... how many "elite" players would you suggest this team possesses? The cap has been horribly mismanaged and the sad part is I see Montreal media and even some fans trying to rationalize some of the decisions that have been taken ... ie $6MM to Plekanec, $3.9MM to Shaw, $4.1MM to Emelin .... JEEBEZ people ... wake up! I see people calling for $5.6MM to Markov next year and that we should pay Price $10MM to extend. We will not win anything paying a goaltender $10MM per year cap hit no matter who he is. And Markov is not worth any where near $5.6MM anymore and his bargaining power at 39 is minimal. His actual pay this year was around $4.25MM and that is what he is worth .....  

You cannot win the Stanley Cup without one or two ELITE talents plus a small core of very good players in support. We have one "elite" player and that is Price. Bergevin traded away our other "elite" player to downgrade to a very good player who is older and has less offensive upside. We have two very good players in Weber and Patches. We need at least two or three more Very Good players to compete.  If anyone thinks we are going to accomplish that with Bergevin at the helm I am afraid that they need to be prepared to be very disappointed.

 

I thought the rebuild should have started last season.  I wanted MTL to start trimming that cap fat and keep playing younger guys LAST SEASON.  So in my personal opinion, we're a year behind on a rebuild.  I would seek permission to talk to Julien Brisebois in TB.  He's responsible for building the farm systems of both the Habs and Bolts.  Both of which won Calder Cups with him at the helm.  If anyone knows how to build through the draft, it's him.  I would gut the management team and let Brisebois hire his own guys.

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1 hour ago, East_Coast_Juggalo_13 said:

I thought the rebuild should have started last season.  I wanted MTL to start trimming that cap fat and keep playing younger guys LAST SEASON.  So in my personal opinion, we're a year behind on a rebuild.  I would seek permission to talk to Julien Brisebois in TB.  He's responsible for building the farm systems of both the Habs and Bolts.  Both of which won Calder Cups with him at the helm.  If anyone knows how to build through the draft, it's him.  I would gut the management team and let Brisebois hire his own guys.

:6280::2008122810303:

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My worst nightmare is that if and when MB is fired (I have zero faith that the clueless owner will do the right thing any time soon) that the next "best available francophone" gm hired, will go and re-hire the re-tread of a clown of a coach therrien..... rinse and repeat.....

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5 hours ago, Y-ASK-Y said:

My worst nightmare is that if and when MB is fired (I have zero faith that the clueless owner will do the right thing any time soon) that the next "best available francophone" gm hired, will go and re-hire the re-tread of a clown of a coach therrien..... rinse and repeat.....

Er..no. Based on the Francophone HC recycle law, it's Alain Vigneault's job after Julien is fired. :4224:

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8 hours ago, The-Phenom said:

Every time Nashville won it's like i relive the '96 Colorado's run to the Stanley Cup with Roy. :5155:

With Roy, the player backed us into a corner and forced a trade. PK wanted to stay here and our organization made a giant mistake in trading him. This is even worse, since it was Bergevin's choice to make this deal.

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On 5/13/2017 at 2:33 AM, ChiLla said:

What bugs me the most is that we haven't had a legit No1 center for what, +10 years? Going back to the lockout, I don't think we've had a better center than Saku Koivu on the team and nobody seems to be able to do something about it. This has been the team's most pressing need since forever, everyone is aware of the fact that we're terribly weak down the middle, yet our GM apparently doesn't care all that much and thinks we can win with Carey Price, the Man Mountain and Alex Galchenyuk on the wing.

I can't remember a Cup-winning team without a #1 center, yet there seem to be quite a few that didn't have an elite goalie on the roster.

As much as I love Saku, i dont think he was ever a legit #1.  I think you have to go back to Turgeon-Damphousse to say we had a legitimate #1 centre.  Thats pretty horrible.  

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