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2017-18 Habs Lines


BigTed3
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7 hours ago, maas_art said:

He is, and as Ive said before, if one of Weber, Petry or Shattenkirk could play their off-side, we'd be well advised to make an offer to KS.  

Or sign Shattenkirk and then work on trading Weber. I'd be fine with Shattenkirk and Petry on the right side if we can improve the left via a Weber trade.

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25 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Or sign Shattenkirk and then work on trading Weber. I'd be fine with Shattenkirk and Petry on the right side if we can improve the left via a Weber trade.

 

21 minutes ago, HabsRuleForever said:

Too bad MB will never admit his mistake.

 

This X10000


I actually have NO DOUBT we could trade Shea Weber right now for a young, top line centre. A team like Edmonton, with Chiarelli at the helm? You'd better believe he'd be down for it if he could figure out how to get Weber under the cap. 

But like HRF i totally agree there's no way MB moves weber, no matter the return. Everyone makes mistakes.  MB wont admit his.  Pride is going to kill this team. 

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, maas_art said:

 

 

This X10000


I actually have NO DOUBT we could trade Shea Weber right now for a young, top line centre. A team like Edmonton, with Chiarelli at the helm? You'd better believe he'd be down for it if he could figure out how to get Weber under the cap. 

But like HRF i totally agree there's no way MB moves weber, no matter the return. Everyone makes mistakes.  MB wont admit his.  Pride is going to kill this team. 

 

 

Edm's going to be really tight under the cap, so with the rumored McD/Draisaitl deals, it's unlikely they'd be able to accommodate Weber. But they'd be more likely to want to trade RNH, who makes a decent amount at 6M. I wonder if we go back to something like Weber for RNH + Nurse and then make it Weber (and we eat 1M of his deal) for RNH, Nurse, and a 1st. If gives Edm a win-now defender and fixes the weakest part of their team and the 1M in retained salary means Edm would be on the hook for a little under 8M, whereas Habs would be on hook for 7M with RNH + the retained salary...

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On ‎6‎/‎30‎/‎2017 at 3:44 AM, Windoe said:

Pacioretty-Drouin-Galchenyuk

Marleau-Thornton-Gallagher

Lehkonen-Danault-Shaw

Byron-Hudon-Mitchell-Martinsen-McCarron

 

 

these 2 aren't coming to Montreal

Marleau-Thornton

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D right now:

Alzner-Weber

Davidson-Petry

Schlemko-Benn

Jerabek, Morrow

 

This is really bad. Of those players, how many D men are good puck-movers? I count one, and it's Petry. Weber is a good PP quarterback but he's not good at skating with the puck and he doesn't organize the breakout well. Alzner is a "shutdown defenceman" but he's probably more akin to Emelin or Gorges or Rivet than a top 4 guy. Alzner is a good 3rd pairing guy, but he's ideally not in your top 4, so we have the same problem we had trying to play Emelin with Weber and passing that off as acceptable. Benn, similarly, can play top 4 in a pinch but he's a 3rd pairing guy. Davidson, Schlemko, Morrow, and Jerabek are all 3rd pairing at best, and we don't have a single guy in the minors who projects as a top 4 defenceman in the next two years. So where is this defence going?

Signing Markov was more of a priority than signing Alzner. Alzner does not replace Markov. He does not replace Beaulieu or Subban or Sergachev. He replaces Emelin, but we frankly didn't need to replace Emelin. We needed to go after Kulikov or Del Zotto or trade for an offensive D man. We did none of those things. So once again, MB has tried to stockpile depth but hasn't done anything to make his day-to-day product any better. Major fail yet again.

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5 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

D right now:

Alzner-Weber

Davidson-Petry

Schlemko-Benn

Jerabek, Morrow

 

This is really bad. Of those players, how many D men are good puck-movers? I count one, and it's Petry. Weber is a good PP quarterback but he's not good at skating with the puck and he doesn't organize the breakout well. Alzner is a "shutdown defenceman" but he's probably more akin to Emelin or Gorges or Rivet than a top 4 guy. Alzner is a good 3rd pairing guy, but he's ideally not in your top 4, so we have the same problem we had trying to play Emelin with Weber and passing that off as acceptable. Benn, similarly, can play top 4 in a pinch but he's a 3rd pairing guy. Davidson, Schlemko, Morrow, and Jerabek are all 3rd pairing at best, and we don't have a single guy in the minors who projects as a top 4 defenceman in the next two years. So where is this defence going?

Signing Markov was more of a priority than signing Alzner. Alzner does not replace Markov. He does not replace Beaulieu or Subban or Sergachev. He replaces Emelin, but we frankly didn't need to replace Emelin. We needed to go after Kulikov or Del Zotto or trade for an offensive D man. We did none of those things. So once again, MB has tried to stockpile depth but hasn't done anything to make his day-to-day product any better. Major fail yet again.

How do we know? Maybe he did, but they said no. Can we fault Bergevin for players not wanting to be over-taxed and forced into the french/english politics? 

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10 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

D right now:

Alzner-Weber

Davidson-Petry

Schlemko-Benn

Jerabek, Morrow

 

This is really bad. Of those players, how many D men are good puck-movers? I count one, and it's Petry. Weber is a good PP quarterback but he's not good at skating with the puck and he doesn't organize the breakout well. Alzner is a "shutdown defenceman" but he's probably more akin to Emelin or Gorges or Rivet than a top 4 guy. Alzner is a good 3rd pairing guy, but he's ideally not in your top 4, so we have the same problem we had trying to play Emelin with Weber and passing that off as acceptable. Benn, similarly, can play top 4 in a pinch but he's a 3rd pairing guy. Davidson, Schlemko, Morrow, and Jerabek are all 3rd pairing at best, and we don't have a single guy in the minors who projects as a top 4 defenceman in the next two years. So where is this defence going?

Signing Markov was more of a priority than signing Alzner. Alzner does not replace Markov. He does not replace Beaulieu or Subban or Sergachev. He replaces Emelin, but we frankly didn't need to replace Emelin. We needed to go after Kulikov or Del Zotto or trade for an offensive D man. We did none of those things. So once again, MB has tried to stockpile depth but hasn't done anything to make his day-to-day product any better. Major fail yet again.

Kulikov I liked and he is a bit f a risk with injury problems and has been an under performer so far in his career, but Alzner is a wash in my mind when compared to Emelin. Del Zotto has been far too fragile for me to consider. Our staff, including CJ, are evaluating these acquisitions too, so while this may not appear to be an improvement I do not see it as worsening the backend. We do need Markov at this point and if he is not resigned that may force Bergevin into making a trade. If some of our prospects ie. Reway, Hudon and Scherbek can make the jump we have some players who can be used as trade bait. Byron is a very interesting case if he can put up some good numbers at the start of the year and Plekanec on the other hand is a bit of a quandary. Plecky needs to step it up and if he struggles again he will not be of much value in a trade. Bergevin may need to move him and his salary before the season starts. 

I was a little worried about the hiring of CJ as I saw more similarities between CJ and MT than differences and would have been happier with Muller. We may end up with a much more defensive dump and chase style with CJ than we had with MT. If  Bergy can get Rad ( I think he signs here in the next two days) Markov and Galchenyuk with our remaining cap space of about 16 mil. someone needs to bend a little and I think that would be Markov. 

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6 hours ago, manquant said:

How do we know? Maybe he did, but they said no. Can we fault Bergevin for players not wanting to be over-taxed and forced into the french/english politics? 

We don't know for sure, but we do know

- MB made it a priority to sign Alzner, a player we don't really need, and certainly not for that much money and term.

- Reputable media suggested MB tried to trade back for Emelin

- He decided he would rather pay 4.6+M for Alzner long-term than pay Markov for two years. Now I didn't love the deal Markov was asking for, but I'd rather have paid that deal than paid Alzner the one he got

- MB traded Sergachev and Beaulieu as if we don't need anyone who can move the puck.

So we do have evidence that he doesn't value puck-moving ability and overvalues "grit" and "defensive ability"

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There's really no excuse for bringing in Alzner. He's pretty much the last thing a team like ours needs. Our defence is slow and almost totally inept at 5-on-5 apart from Petry. If you thought the breakout wasn't good enough last season, just wait.

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On 7/2/2017 at 10:48 AM, habs_93 said:

There's really no excuse for bringing in Alzner. He's pretty much the last thing a team like ours needs. Our defence is slow and almost totally inept at 5-on-5 apart from Petry. If you thought the breakout wasn't good enough last season, just wait.

Apparently Schlemko's better with that. Certainly not a top pairing guy, but they may try anyone with Weber. The smartest thing our GM could do right now is trade for a 1LD since they're not available as FA anymore. Play Alzner with Petry and allocate Schlemko to the third line with Benn. With Weber on the first pairing, that's a solid defensive core with one hole at 1LD. Barring a trade, I'd think the even smarter thing to do with our cap issues, would be to give our latest call-up the spot next to Weber. We take way too long with our prospects. If someone shows us the stuff at development camp, we put him on first line duties Weber to start the year. He either rockets to success or he doesn't, but you at least give him a few games to try it out.

 

Jerabek shoots left; he's an option.

Most of our prospects are righties, but Juulsen has the most flash. If he clicks you could also try him.

Davidson could also emerge, he's older and also proven more defensively responsible.

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^^ Yeah, the D could be okay if you can find a 1st-pairing left-handed D man who has good puck-moving ability, but where are we getting that from? Even Markov, while better than what we have now, is not going to fill that hole for the entire season. He doesn't have the stamina to do it. So barring a trade to bring in a 1st-pairing guy, everybody slides up one role... Alzner becomes a completely inadequate partner for Weber, Schlemko or Davidson moves into the top 4 where they're probably over-matched as well, and you then need to play someone else on your third pairing, your first injury replacement is not as good, etc. There is zero depth in Hamilton in terms of NHL-capable replacements. So maybe we're one good player away from sorting out our defence, but that one good player being missing has created a rather huge hole.

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Up front right now:

Pacioretty-Danault-Lekhonen

Drouin-Galchenyuk-Gallagher

Hudon-Plekanec-Hemsky

Byron-McCarron-Shaw

Carr, Mitchell

The other nice thing about the Hemsky signing is that it should push Martinsen back to the minors where he is better-suited to play. I'm curious to see where the team thinks Byron and Shaw are going to fit in, because only one of them can realistically play in the top 9 now, maybe neither if the team actually gives Hudon a shot.

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1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

Up front right now:

Pacioretty-Danault-Lekhonen

Drouin-Galchenyuk-Gallagher

Hudon-Plekanec-Hemsky

Byron-McCarron-Shaw

Carr, Mitchell

Nothing personal

This team struggled to score goals last year , that line up is going to struggle again, no matter who is coaching

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2 hours ago, Regis22 said:

Nothing personal

This team struggled to score goals last year , that line up is going to struggle again, no matter who is coaching

Sure. Although I think the hurt will come in large part because the D won't generate any counter-attack. We need help at center, but no worse than last year IMO (better if we use AG or JD there in fact). And we have more scoring depth at wing. Drouin replaces Radulov. Hemsky and Hudon, if he's allowed to play, provide more than the likes of King, Ott, Martinsen, etc. So some positives, although I agree in general that MB has failed to address the main needs of the team for a 1C and a 1 LHD.

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30 minutes ago, Concreteveins1 said:

Rumour out there is Galchenyuk for Anisimov.

Anisimov is a decent centre that has scored 20 three times. I really hope they don't trade for him and keep Gelchenyuk.

Makes sense . 29 yrs old, played on 3 NHL teams , most recently the Hawks

 

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I still think, even losing Rad, we have the right group upfront to make things happen, but we have to use them effectively.

Pacioretty - Galchenyuk - Gallagher   It was a top flight first line a few years ago.  Why not now? 
Lehkonen - Drouin - Hemsky      I dont know if Ales' body can still handle top 6 minutes but he still has skills. 
Byron - Danault - Shaw     Great 3rd line. 'nuff said
Hudon - Plekanec - McCarron     A very versatile line.  Obviously Pleks is hugely overpaid but who is going to take him?

Overall, i dont think its as bad as it looks.  But we've got to use our two most creative, natural centres as centres. We can NOT go through another year with Danault-Plekanec as our 1-2 centres. 

Defense is still a huge problem.  Depth, as far as i am concerned is: 

__________ - Weber
Alzner - Petry
Schlemko - Benn


Those are your 5 best guys right now.  Of the remainder (Davidson, JJ, Redmond, Morrow etc) i dont see anyone who can fill that role next to Weber. Our two two D prospects are RD  (Juulsen & Lernout).  I dont see any UFA available who can, at least not for a whole year.  I dont see how we're filling that hole unless we trade a forward (ie Galchenyuk) and right now i dont mind our forward group but lose one of the top guys and it will look a lot worse.  

I am sure that MB signed Alzner thinking he will play next to Weber, but i honestly have no idea how that could possibly work. 

 

 

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