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2017-18 Habs Lines


BigTed3
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1 hour ago, maas_art said:

Our defense really has me going around in circles.   I keep coming back to the at LD spot next to Weber. Its what is killing us. 

We have several good options next to Petry (Benn, Alzner - even a guy like Schlemko or Davidson might be able to handle that assignment).

We have like 40 guys who can play on the third pairing. 


But we have no one that right now is a clear option next to Weber.   If nothing else changes on our blueline between now and October, I suspect they will try Alzner there which seems like a bad idea.  I have a feeling MB looked at the first 30 or so games last year when Weber-Emelin looked so good (it wasnt as good as looked on paper, they benefitted from a lot of luck and good bounces) and said "Alzner is better than Emelin so, bang, thats what we do."

If we resign Markov, chances are we put him there, but again: wrong move imho.  I think Markov-Weber will look great for a few weeks but as the year goes on would look very bad.  

I know people have suggested newcomer Jakub Jerabek - and who knows, maybe he can do it - but it scares me.  The jump from the KHL to the NHL, especially for a defensman is a big one. Give him 3rd pairing duties & he might be fine but put him into a 1st pairing situation?  I dunno.   The other thing is, most players as they streak into our zone will do everything they can to avoid weber, meaning there is an extra toll put on whomever he plays next to.  I dont know if thats the best learning environment.

Really not sure what CJ is going to do.  Hope MB has some sort of rabbit up his sleeve.

 

I think MB will move to add one more D man. I still think the best odds are that it's Markov, but maybe it's someone else. Maybe it's Gelinas or Despres or Streit... if we do go into the season with our current line-up of D men, I agree with you that they're almost certainly going to pair Alzner with Weber based purely on the fact that Alzner has the most experience playing big minutes. I think the concept of what skillset you need to play next to Weber (it should be an all-around good player capable of big minutes but he also needs to be a good skater and a guy who can move the puck) is secondary. I wonder whether they will play Benn on the left, in which case he would likely be in the top 4 and play next to the player Alzner doesn't line up next to (either Weber or Petry). Alzner has already stated direction told him he would get the chance to play next to Weber or Petry, so we know the team envisions him as a top 4 defender. That's probably our top 4 to begin. Schlemko probably has the edge to play the 3rd pairing, and then the last guy should be Davidson unless Jerabek surprises. Morrow has got an outside shot, but I think the team probably sees him as an ideal 7th D man. So I see them going

Alzner-Weber

Benn-Petry

Schlemko-Davidson

Morrow

unless someone like Jerabek or Redmond or Lernout has such a stellar camp that they force Morrow off the roster.

 

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3 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

I see them going

Alzner-Weber

Benn-Petry

Schlemko-Davidson

Morrow

I think you're right.  And what a mess.

Instead you could easily have had:

Alzner - Subban  (would actually work, in this case - alzner could handle the minutes and PK could be PK)
Markov - Petry
Schlemko/Davidson - Benn

A much better top 6 simply because you didnt trade an all-round great #1 for a "gritty leader" #1.   And you know i like Weber, he just totally limits what we can do because he fits a very specific situation while Subban can do everything at an elite level. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Ugg. the Streit signing just confounds our D problem. Now we have what, 20  third pairing dmen?


Bonefide Top 4:   Weber, Petry
Fringe Top 4:  Alzner, Benn
Third Pairing: Davidson , Schlemko, Streit, Morrow, Jerabek, Juulsen, Lernout
(Understanding that Juulsen or JJ may be better than 3rd pairing but need NHL time to move up the ranks)

The biggest problem is that while we have spare pieces and components, most are not well suited, for example:

* Weber and Petry would probably make a pretty decent first pairing and complement each other but you're talking about 1200+ combined games playing RD. Are we really going to ask one to switch sides?

* Weber, Alzer, Benn and Schelmko are all slowish, "defensive defensmen."  Petry is the only guy you can trust in our top 4 who can move the puck

* Benn is probably an option in the top 4 but he prefers playing RD.

 

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What if we tested McCarron on the first line on the right side with Pacioretty and Galchenyuk? That allows Drouin to slot in on his natural side on the second line, Danault centers and Gallagher plays 2RW which is more suited to where he belongs. If it works and is clicking, then it allows us to spread our talent so that no one is really overreaching in their place on our lineup.

 

Pacioretty Galchenyuk McCarron

Drouin Danault Gallagher

Lehkonen Plekanec Hemsky

Byron Mitchell Shaw

 

A similar thing could be said of our LD spot next to Weber, so that one of our younger speedier guys get a bona fide shot and Alzner isn't filling a role that he can't fulfill.

Our management is constantly saying that you build through the draft, and yet guys that we've been high on are often relegated to the bottom 6 if they can't carry a top line within the first few games. This goes for Hudon as well.

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3 minutes ago, RyderRocks73 said:

What if we tested McCarron on the first line on the right side with Pacioretty and Galchenyuk? 

For some reason our management group seems adamant about using McCarron as a centre.  But i agree with you, id really like to give him a shot in the top 6, regardless of whether its as a winger or centre, tbh. 

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On 7/25/2017 at 4:33 PM, maas_art said:

Ugg. the Streit signing just confounds our D problem. Now we have what, 20  third pairing dmen?


Bonefide Top 4:   Weber, Petry
Fringe Top 4:  Alzner, Benn
Third Pairing: Davidson , Schlemko, Streit, Morrow, Jerabek, Juulsen, Lernout
(Understanding that Juulsen or JJ may be better than 3rd pairing but need NHL time to move up the ranks)

The biggest problem is that while we have spare pieces and components, most are not well suited, for example:

* Weber and Petry would probably make a pretty decent first pairing and complement each other but you're talking about 1200+ combined games playing RD. Are we really going to ask one to switch sides?

* Weber, Alzer, Benn and Schelmko are all slowish, "defensive defensmen."  Petry is the only guy you can trust in our top 4 who can move the puck

* Benn is probably an option in the top 4 but he prefers playing RD.

 

Schlemko isn't slow. Honestly, I'm highest on  playing: 

Jerabek/Davidson Weber

Alzner Petry

Schlemko Benn

 

That leaves one player to prove himself tremendously but doing it next to Weber rather than having three guys on the left side playing in situations where they can't.

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On 7/26/2017 at 5:29 PM, RyderRocks73 said:

Schlemko isn't slow. Honestly, I'm highest on  playing: 

Jerabek/Davidson Weber

Alzner Petry

Schlemko Benn

 

That leaves one player to prove himself tremendously but doing it next to Weber rather than having three guys on the left side playing in situations where they can't.

I agree! And if that one player does do it, our D is pretty good! 

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On 7/26/2017 at 2:29 PM, RyderRocks73 said:

That leaves one player to prove himself tremendously but doing it next to Weber rather than having three guys on the left side playing in situations where they can't.

The problem though, is that you're throwing one player to the wolves.  Playing next to Weber you have probably the toughest job of any of our defensmen because not only will it be your #1 responsibility to retrieve pucks for your pairing, the opposition is going to try to come down your side because no one wants to meet Weber in the corner.  The one advantage (and the reason it worked for a while) playing Emelin-Weber had was that there was no 'easy corner' you knew you were going to get mauled regardless of who you rushed in on. 

I am not sure if any of Davidson, Jerabek, Schlemko or whomever can handle that but unless MB has a rabbit up his sleeve to acquire a true #1LD, i am assuming we'll find out. 

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On ‎30‎/‎07‎/‎2017 at 3:29 PM, habsisme said:

I agree! And if that one player does do it, our D is pretty good! 

the D stinks

Its slow , old and not mobile

Look around the league . Most teams have a guy who can skate and carry the puck .

I don't think there is anyone on this D who can do it

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6 minutes ago, Regis22 said:

the D stinks

Its slow , old and not mobile

Look around the league . Most teams have a guy who can skate and carry the puck .

I don't think there is anyone on this D who can do it

Petry. But that's one guy. He's the best all-around D man on the team, and probably the only guy guaranteed to be in the top 6 who can play both ends of the ice well and produce controlled zone exits at a reliable clip. As I've said, Weber is great at special teams, but he's not a puck mover. Benn, Davidson, Alzner, and Schlemko all seem to be more defensive guys without much puck moving ability. And Streit and Jerabek might not be good enough all-around players to even make the top 6. So...

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16 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Petry. But that's one guy. He's the best all-around D man on the team, and probably the only guy guaranteed to be in the top 6 who can play both ends of the ice well and produce controlled zone exits at a reliable clip. As I've said, Weber is great at special teams, but he's not a puck mover. Benn, Davidson, Alzner, and Schlemko all seem to be more defensive guys without much puck moving ability. And Streit and Jerabek might not be good enough all-around players to even make the top 6. So...

As silly as it sounds I would't be surprised to see Petry as a target on MB's next chop/trade list though. :(

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Does anybody know anything about the Will Butcher kid I keep reading about?

As it stands, I’m rather conflicted on how I feel about our D. On one hand, I’d like to see us add another LD with some PCD attributes. Seems like the obvious thing to do. But on the other hand, maybe we’re alright just the way we are. Heck, I might even go so far as to say we were alright before we signed Streit.

That said, there is something intriguing about this Butcher kid. I just wish I knew more about him…

Any thoughts?  

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7 hours ago, MALMACIAN_CRUNCH said:

Does anybody know anything about the Will Butcher kid I keep reading about?

As it stands, I’m rather conflicted on how I feel about our D. On one hand, I’d like to see us add another LD with some PCD attributes. Seems like the obvious thing to do. But on the other hand, maybe we’re alright just the way we are. Heck, I might even go so far as to say we were alright before we signed Streit.

That said, there is something intriguing about this Butcher kid. I just wish I knew more about him…

Any thoughts?  

Just that he's an unsigned 2013 draft pick, Avalanche passed on signing after each amazing season, three medals, and finally this season he wins the Clark Cup and the Hobey Baker. Now they come knocking because their window is closing and Butcher's refusing to sign. He'll go to UFA on the 15th. Kid's pretty much a rock star sticking it to the Avs and waiting to get his pick of team from any one of the 30 others now interested.

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13 hours ago, MALMACIAN_CRUNCH said:

Does anybody know anything about the Will Butcher kid I keep reading about?

As it stands, I’m rather conflicted on how I feel about our D. On one hand, I’d like to see us add another LD with some PCD attributes. Seems like the obvious thing to do. But on the other hand, maybe we’re alright just the way we are. Heck, I might even go so far as to say we were alright before we signed Streit.

That said, there is something intriguing about this Butcher kid. I just wish I knew more about him…

Any thoughts?  

On paper, he's everything we need.  He's mobile, skates well and shoots left.  He's said he wont sign with Colorado, so he'll be going UFA.    There are rumblings that MB will make a big push for him, and honestly, if our scouts think he could play top 4 minutes, I could see it being a VERY enticing offer for him - i mean how many kids out there would get the chance to play next to Weber?   say what you will about his flaws, most young defensmen would kill to suit up next to #6 for their first gig in the nhl. 

It doesnt come without risk, mind you. He's 100% unproven at the NHL level.  But as an unsigned UFA the max he can get is a 2 year $925k/per deal, i believe... although im sure he will have the pot sweetened with bonuses. 

 

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6 hours ago, maas_art said:

On paper, he's everything we need.  He's mobile, skates well and shoots left.  He's said he wont sign with Colorado, so he'll be going UFA.    There are rumblings that MB will make a big push for him, and honestly, if our scouts think he could play top 4 minutes, I could see it being a VERY enticing offer for him - i mean how many kids out there would get the chance to play next to Weber?   say what you will about his flaws, most young defensmen would kill to suit up next to #6 for their first gig in the nhl. 

It doesnt come without risk, mind you. He's 100% unproven at the NHL level.  But as an unsigned UFA the max he can get is a 2 year $925k/per deal, i believe... although im sure he will have the pot sweetened with bonuses. 

 

Sounds interesting indeed, I've never heard of the kid before. Sure, he's 100% unproven, but he's still closer to the NHL than virtually any other LHD prospect we currently have. A 2-year deal carries little risk and I don't really care about potential signing bonuses since we do have the Cap space, MB better get this done.

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2 hours ago, ChiLla said:

Sounds interesting indeed, I've never heard of the kid before. Sure, he's 100% unproven, but he's still closer to the NHL than virtually any other LHD prospect we currently have. A 2-year deal carries little risk and I don't really care about potential signing bonuses since we do have the Cap space, MB better get this done.

without question.  Juulsen is the only guy i think is even close to having the potential to make the jump and he's RD. 

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3 hours ago, maas_art said:

without question.  Juulsen is the only guy i think is even close to having the potential to make the jump and he's RD. 

I don't think Juulsen is that close to be honest. D men take a while to develop, and while Juulsen has potential, I don't think his game has the speed (skating, puck movement) to make the jump to the NHL level. I think he's at least two years away, maybe more.

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8 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

I don't think Juulsen is that close to be honest. D men take a while to develop, and while Juulsen has potential, I don't think his game has the speed (skating, puck movement) to make the jump to the NHL level. I think he's at least two years away, maybe more.

You're probably right - especially with our d corps structured the way it is (strong on the right, weak on the left) but that illustrates my point even more:  Butcher would immediately become our best young defensive prospect by default. lol.  Ouch. 

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3 hours ago, maas_art said:

You're probably right - especially with our d corps structured the way it is (strong on the right, weak on the left) but that illustrates my point even more:  Butcher would immediately become our best young defensive prospect by default. lol.  Ouch. 

I don't know enough about Butcher to confirm or deny that but it's quite possible. We're pretty darn weak in terms of D prospects who are near NHL-ready. In Bergevin's own words, Brett Lernout is basically the only name he could come up with in terms of NHL-ready young D men, and Lernout is probably a 3rd pairing defenceman max potential, not a guy who's going to ever help your top 4 or re-launching your offence to any significant degree.

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Nice article here  where Nathan Ni breaks down our players & explains the lines he'd put together.  His two main options revolve around whether we should split AG and JD or not since they are both supremely talented playmakers.

Option_1.png

Option_2.png

Im assuming this will not be our lineup come opening night, but will be interesting to see what CJ does with the lineup at that time. 

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On 8/7/2017 at 3:51 AM, maas_art said:

On paper, he's everything we need.  He's mobile, skates well and shoots left.  He's said he wont sign with Colorado, so he'll be going UFA.    There are rumblings that MB will make a big push for him, and honestly, if our scouts think he could play top 4 minutes, I could see it being a VERY enticing offer for him - i mean how many kids out there would get the chance to play next to Weber?   say what you will about his flaws, most young defensmen would kill to suit up next to #6 for their first gig in the nhl. 

It doesnt come without risk, mind you. He's 100% unproven at the NHL level.  But as an unsigned UFA the max he can get is a 2 year $925k/per deal, i believe... although im sure he will have the pot sweetened with bonuses. 

Well my fingers are crossed, seems like low risk/high reward to me :)

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On 8/6/2017 at 11:23 PM, RyderRocks73 said:

Just that he's an unsigned 2013 draft pick, Avalanche passed on signing after each amazing season, three medals, and finally this season he wins the Clark Cup and the Hobey Baker. Now they come knocking because their window is closing and Butcher's refusing to sign. He'll go to UFA on the 15th. Kid's pretty much a rock star sticking it to the Avs and waiting to get his pick of team from any one of the 30 others now interested.

like I stated above, fingers crossed

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On 8/6/2017 at 2:32 PM, MALMACIAN_CRUNCH said:

Does anybody know anything about the Will Butcher kid I keep reading about?

As it stands, I’m rather conflicted on how I feel about our D. On one hand, I’d like to see us add another LD with some PCD attributes. Seems like the obvious thing to do. But on the other hand, maybe we’re alright just the way we are. Heck, I might even go so far as to say we were alright before we signed Streit.

That said, there is something intriguing about this Butcher kid. I just wish I knew more about him…

Any thoughts?  

Since he's American I'd be willing to bet he's gonna stay put in the US. 

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13 hours ago, habs1952 said:

Since he's American I'd be willing to bet he's gonna stay put in the US. 

You do realize Patches , Petry, Chucky , MaCarron , are all American I believe we have others also. We may have more Americans on our team than some other teams do. I agree the taxes don't make it appealing to anyone even Canadians.

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