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#27 Alex Galchenyuk 2017-18


habs_93
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10 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

My offer to him would be 6-7 years at 6M a season. If he wants more, I'd got to 6.5M per year on the same length. He'd only be 30 by the end of that deal. As I said, comparable players signed deals in the 6M range, so we're not going to be able to argue for much less than that. If he wants north of 7M a season, he's probably not getting that reasonably and at that point, I'd take a 1-year deal so that he's still an RFA next year. But a 3-4 year deal is pretty much the dumbest contract length we could give him from our point of view.

yeah, 3-4 years doesn't make sense. Even one is risky though. If he is asking for 7 or more then that changes my desire to trade him, at that point you really need to start thinking of moving him

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54 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Fair points, and you're right about Drouin not playing in his first year of his ELC contract. On AG, I still believe he could be a PPG forward under the right conditions. It's just funny to me that we've seen him put up near-PGG totals in a 50-60 game sample size and yet don't continue to play him at center, don't increase his ice time to see what he can do, and actually give him worse linemates as time goes by. He was playing with the likes of Ott and Martinsen by the end of last year! You see teams like Edmonton letting McDavid go wild and not caring about his faceoff percentage or Pit doing the same with Malkin and so on. Not sure why we feel such a need to stifle offensive creativity and then complain that we can't score goals. We did the same thing to Subban, trying to change the way he plays instead of letting him flourish offensively the way Ott allows Karlsson to play as he wishes or SJ does with Burns. We already managed to screw up the Subban dossier big-time, so it would be nice to not give up on or give away a great offensive player like Galchenyuk the same way. Maybe he's not a PPG forward in the end, but for Pete's sake, he's shown flashes he can be and yet we've played him behind the likes of Danault, Desharnais, King, etc. Give the guy a full season as the 1C, give him 18-20 minutes a game, and then come back and re-evaluate what your long-term plans are. I will live with a guy's inexperience as a center defensively if he's putting up 70+ points a season. It would not be unreasonable at all to play a 1st line of Drouin-Galchenyuk-Gallagher and give them sheltered zone starts and then use a 2nd line of Pacioretty-Danault-Lehkonen and give them tougher assignments. It's very doable. We can maybe even improve on that if we sign/trade for another option. So frustrating to just see us toss talent away like this.

I don't disagree although I'll say this, I do wonder how much of their issues with him are faceoff related vs strictly defensive play related. I mean, even on his hero chart in the original post his shot suppression is awful, the guys you mentioned don't struggle that badly with it. If he could be even league average defensively he'd get himself a lot of rope. So it's tough, I agree, he should be stuck at C and left there and developed there but for the time being, if he's going to be that bad defensively, the only way to do it is to shelter his minutes. I just don't think, as dynamic as he is, you can play him 20 minutes a game yet. I think his role right now should be 2nd line, offensive zone C and let someone else do a lot of the heavy lifting. Even if Galchenyuk only plays 15-17 minutes, make the most of them. Ozone starts, tons of PP. I do think if Galchenyuk is willing to work on his defensive game, Julien could be a good coach for him and I hope the contract situation doesn't make management think they have to trade him. I'd like to see him back, full healthy camp with Julien. 

We're bad at handling young, talented players. It's not a secret. Too bad. 

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With regards to Galchenyuk's 5-on-5 shooting percentage, it's certainly been inflated. I'd be a lot happier if he was producing 1.6 P160 with a 7.5% 5-on-5 shooting percentage. I think we'll see it become more reasonable under a full season of Julien. Ditto his defensive numbers; I'd love to give it a deeper dive with regards to team/opponent influence and so on, but Corsica is down and my database is broken. Galchenyuk's defence does need to get better, and I'm hoping a Julien camp will do that, not least by exorcising whatever remains of the Therrien garbage he's been labouring under. But the people with an outdated view of the game are never going to be happy with anything except the meaningless and deleterious "200 foot hockey" act out of him which would, of course, maul his offensive production, and give that crowd another excuse to complain that he's not Johnathan Toews and demand he be traded for Mark Borowiecki or some other plug out of 1995 central casting.

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1 hour ago, habs_93 said:

With regards to Galchenyuk's 5-on-5 shooting percentage, it's certainly been inflated. I'd be a lot happier if he was producing 1.6 P160 with a 7.5% 5-on-5 shooting percentage. I think we'll see it become more reasonable under a full season of Julien. Ditto his defensive numbers; I'd love to give it a deeper dive with regards to team/opponent influence and so on, but Corsica is down and my database is broken. Galchenyuk's defence does need to get better, and I'm hoping a Julien camp will do that, not least by exorcising whatever remains of the Therrien garbage he's been labouring under. But the people with an outdated view of the game are never going to be happy with anything except the meaningless and deleterious "200 foot hockey" act out of him which would, of course, maul his offensive production, and give that crowd another excuse to complain that he's not Johnathan Toews and demand he be traded for Mark Borowiecki or some other plug out of 1995 central casting.

The 200' hockey player is not meaningless at all. It's actually what all good coaches want. Babcock is a huge proponent of that style. That is why he loved Dats & Zeterburg so much. Young players also should realize that this is part of being a completer #1 center. CJ played Bergeron in front of Seguin. It wasn't because Bergeron was better offensively but it was because he is a "200" foot player. In Mathews 1st game where he scored 4 goals, when interviewed after the game the first thing Mathews commented on was how he lost his coverage on his man in OT. Now there is a young player that gets it. Bowman made Yzerman and Federov both offensive greats change their games to be complete players ... and than they won! No one is saying that he can't develop into a good two way forward. That said it's up to him to watch guys like Toews ect. and learn and work on those areas. He has all the natural skills which will let you excel in juniors. He hasn't been invited to the US team or even the young guns. He has the talent but all coaches and GM's covet the complete players. To give him 20 minutes a night you want him to be able to be out there when your leading by one late defending and when down by one trying to get back in the game. I hope we actually pick up Thorton for a 1 year deal and keep both Druion and Chucky. Give them both time to develop.  

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1 hour ago, CaptWelly said:

CJ played Bergeron in front of Seguin. It wasn't because Bergeron was better offensively but it was because he is a "200" foot player.

That's just incorrect, though. Bergeron was far superior in possession during Seguin's run in Boston, and his 5-on-5 primary point rates were statistically indistinguishable from Seguin. Bergeron is the better offensive player, and he's better defensively because of it. The probability of an opponent scoring is significantly reduced when they're controlling only 38.42% of the unblocked shot events on ice, as opponents playing 5-on-5 time against Bergeron got in the 2012-13 shortened season.

1 hour ago, CaptWelly said:

No one is saying that he can't develop into a good two way forward.

I certainly hope someone important in the organization is telling him not to waste his career trying to play hockey twenty years ago, but with the way things are going I'm not too optimistic.

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When I watch Galchenyuk he is like a lot of young players (and some good snipers) in that he has some areas of the ice that he is comfortable with and plays effectively within. There were some recent videos (can't remember where I saw them likely TSN or Sportsnet) showing how he plays on the outside. While this may be a sign of some confidence issues I think it is oversimplified. A player who has poor defensive zone coverage is less likely to want to get the puck in his own end and appear tentative or timid in his checking and that is what I see with AG. Can he get over it? I think so. He falls into the same trap offensively too. He appears to me to be more productive when he is set up as opposed to carrying the puck over the line where he looks more predictable and can often turn the puck over inappropriately like a young defenceman we had used to  do. The frustrating part of this for me is AG's size. I am not sure he has learned to take advantage this, and with every year he should be getting a little heavier and stronger. He can be more of a Getzlaff and may just need to realiize how effective some heavy hitting could be for his confidence and his game. Having always been a skill player I am not sure he has found out how big an asset his size can be. Often times watching him I wish he would take a more direct route through the opponent whether on offence or defence. He was 525th in the league in hitting and out hit by some tiny guys. This is not meant to be a critique, but more of a way for him to get some emotion and get into the game. If he is not going to get the puck in his end well knock someone over and change your reputation a little. When Galchenyuk does this I believe trade talk and complaints will stop. I don't want him to lead the league. Getzlaff is around 170th and has about three times as many hits. Lets see if he can double the hits this year and yes I know this is an arbitrary stat, but it is an obvious area of growth for his game that is well within his capability. He can create a lot more space for himself if he decides to focus a little more on this asset. With Julien as the coach I  would be surprised if this is not a focus area and goal for a few of our bigger players.  

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On 6/24/2017 at 9:02 PM, BigTed3 said:

Don't really understand how Galchenyuk is the riskier player. He's proven himself over a longer period of time in the NHL, he's been a 30-goal scorer already, and he's had success despite getting less time per game than Drouin and most of his contemporary top 6 comparables. if we're talking about off-ice issues or personality, Galchenyuk came into the league with a scouting report that he was one of the hardest-working players in junior and he's battled back from a key injury to have success. Drouin has had his own question-marks on personality with his hold-out and rumors that he can be a bit of a diva.

For me personally, it's about what you bring on the ice. I want both guys on my team. But I don't understand the belief that Galchenyuk is riskier nor the belief that one guy deserves a long-term deal while the other one needs to be bridged for a second time in a row when he was your best player in terms of production per ice time last year.

 

 

Sure, assuming he wants long-term... but again, this is focusing on the Habs' side of thing, where the report is that they're only offering 3-4 years. The Habs should be offering 6-7. That would be much smarter. We've gone over this story with respect to Subban. Same applies to Galchenyuk. He's young and locking him up for 6-7 years would still put him on the right side of 30 at the end of his deal, so this is not the same discussion as whether to sign Radulov into his mid-late 30's... the Habs seemed very willing to pay Weber until he's 40. They had no problem locking up Desharnais til he was 30 and no problem going long-term with Gallagher (which was good) or Shaw (which was dumb). Why the resistance to offer a long-term deal to your most skilled players like Subban or Galchenyuk?

Agreed. Also want to add that calling his girlfriend hitting him an "off-ice issue," is unfair. I really couldn't believe it when Habs brass made him publicly apologize for the "distraction" that he caused. 

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Its good to have an asset that other GMs are attracted to.  You never know, someone might be willing to overpay.  

Colorado is dangling Duchene...if you want to overpay you can have him.  Otherwise, we're happy to keep him.

Same thing with AG.

 

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1 hour ago, Windoe said:

Its good to have an asset that other GMs are attracted to.  You never know, someone might be willing to overpay.  

Colorado is dangling Duchene...if you want to overpay you can have him.  Otherwise, we're happy to keep him.

Same thing with AG.

 

I can totally stand behind that, nobody on this roster should be untouchable. If a GM is willing to pay through his nose for AG, so be it.

You'd have to play it smart though, which MB clearly didn't. Publicly calling out a very gifted offensive player for his defensive shortcomings at a press conference is terrible asset management if you're truly looking to trade the guy.

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On 6/25/2017 at 7:54 AM, habs_93 said:

It's fine to not like a player, but this is grass is greener on the other side of the fence silliness. 

THIS X100000

IMHO that's been Marc Bergevin's biggest problem since day one.  What makes it worse is his constant mantra "you cant trade for star players, you have to draft them" and then proceed to trade away our own star players.

Sigh. 

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16 hours ago, habs_93 said:

That's just incorrect, though. Bergeron was far superior in possession during Seguin's run in Boston, and his 5-on-5 primary point rates were statistically indistinguishable from Seguin. Bergeron is the better offensive player, and he's better defensively because of it. The probability of an opponent scoring is significantly reduced when they're controlling only 38.42% of the unblocked shot events on ice, as opponents playing 5-on-5 time against Bergeron got in the 2012-13 shortened season.

I certainly hope someone important in the organization is telling him not to waste his career trying to play hockey twenty years ago, but with the way things are going I'm not too optimistic.

Bergeron was/is also great on face offs also, which makes him able to play in all zones more effectively. The 200' game is actually the new model the new NHL not the old. I've watched since the 60's and throughout the 70's with the flying French man. At that time the offensive players pretty much did just that played offense only. The era of a center playing down low and being back deep helping out their d is the new game. Dionne , Lemuiex ect. didn't worry about that. The older hockey had pure checking centers like Carbeneau Gainey ect. that were never expected to score just stay on top of Gretsky or who ever was their assignment. Babcock was one of the first to want two way players along with Bowman before him. Most coaches want to roll 4 lines as much as possible not the old 1-2-3-4 where 4th only gets a few minutes a game. The game is faster so everyone has to be able to skate now. Some of the loudest praise Crosby has received is about how much better he has become defensively. Babcock along with many others have been quoted as saying offense comes from good defense. The Selkie trophy used to be awarded to primarily shutdown guys even wingers. Now the guys winning are guys like Bergeron or a Datsuyk "complete" players. Yzerman and Sakic both had some of their highest point totals , but when they started to play a two way game and got better on faces offs and their own zone coverage's that's when both started to win Cups! I agree with Habberwacky also now that Chucky is older he should be stronger and he should use his size more and be more physical. It definitely would be to his advantage. I also agree coaches always love to see their star players throw a few checks. It gets the bench fired up and the rest of the team will follow. I really hope we keep both Chuck and Druion this would be good for the future. I will say also everyone always wants to see him get more ice time. Well if he improves his overall game the ice time will come, because he'll be trusted in more situations.

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7 hours ago, habs_93 said:

If the coaching staff spends any effort or time time concentrating on how to get the first line centre to check more, we're so profoundly up a creek it's hard to put it in words.

It sure has seemed to work out in the past such as Yzerman Federov Toews Bergeron Sakic , Datsyk , even Crosby has improved his defensive game greatly over the years. All very offensively gifted players that have something in common after they started to play a well rounded game. They all have won the Stanley cup! I don't understand why fans wouldn't want Chucky to be the best all around player that we could use in all situations? Which will increase his ice time which is kind of what you would want with your most talented player. Several of the above have scored 50 goal seasons. I bet if asked they all would say they enjoyed lifting the cup more than scoring 50!

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9 minutes ago, CaptWelly said:

It sure has seemed to work out in the past such as Yzerman Federov Toews Bergeron Sakic , Datsyk , even Crosby has improved his defensive game greatly over the years. All very offensively gifted players that have something in common after they started to play a well rounded game. They all have won the Stanley cup! I don't understand why fans wouldn't want Chucky to be the best all around player that we could use in all situations? Which will increase his ice time which is kind of what you would want with your most talented player. Several of the above have scored 50 goal seasons. I bet if asked they all would say they enjoyed lifting the cup more than scoring 50!

I agree with you Capt. You aren't gonna win many games if your forwards just wait at the blueline for the D to retrieve the puck.

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14 minutes ago, CaptWelly said:

It sure has seemed to work out in the past such as Yzerman Federov Toews Bergeron Sakic , Datsyk , even Crosby has improved his defensive game greatly over the years. All very offensively gifted players that have something in common after they started to play a well rounded game. They all have won the Stanley cup! I don't understand why fans wouldn't want Chucky to be the best all around player that we could use in all situations? Which will increase his ice time which is kind of what you would want with your most talented player. Several of the above have scored 50 goal seasons. I bet if asked they all would say they enjoyed lifting the cup more than scoring 50!

You can add Modano to that list.

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9 hours ago, Windoe said:

Would you trade AG for Jeff Skinner from Carolina (2 more years at 5.725 cap hit, 25 years old, Center)?

 

 

2 hours ago, habs_93 said:

Straight up? Not with his history of concussions.

Agreed, Skinner is great, but scares me with his history.

What about  AG  for Skinner + Slavin?    Could slavin slot into LD next to Weber? He's a pretty good puck mover, even though he's not a huge offensive threat.

Conversely, we could ask for Hanafin + Pick/Prospect for AG.  Much like the Drouin trade, Hanafin could possibly be an elite top pairing guy, but the risk would be on us, as AG is proven & Hanafin is not (quite). (FWIW, Id still rather keep AG)
 

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3 hours ago, maas_art said:

 

Agreed, Skinner is great, but scares me with his history.

What about  AG  for Skinner + Slavin?    Could slavin slot into LD next to Weber? He's a pretty good puck mover, even though he's not a huge offensive threat.

Conversely, we could ask for Hanafin + Pick/Prospect for AG.  Much like the Drouin trade, Hanafin could possibly be an elite top pairing guy, but the risk would be on us, as AG is proven & Hanafin is not (quite). (FWIW, Id still rather keep AG)
 

yes to both but I actually prefer the first trade even though it breaks the rule for trades (get the best player in the deal)

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Call me old-fashioned, .. but these guys are paid too much, too soon, .. give me a couple 30+goals/year and we`ll talk.

 

but in this topic, I must agree, why not Galchenyuk, but yet another that has yet to touch the puck in our jersey, .. for this is not an easy thing to wear, 

most that have left Montreal have produced better elsewhere, for Montreal clings to a sometimes too defensive style of play.

maybe there is just too much politics brought into the game.

 

the first thing that came to my mind after the signing of Drouin was, .. There goes Radulov, ..

for I believed they would have found terms with Galchenyuk, ..

 

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