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#27 Alex Galchenyuk 2017-18


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55 minutes ago, Habs=stanleycup said:

I'm sure that once/or if he has been traded the truth will come out anyway.

Will it? MB is extremely secretive. The whole truth hasn't come out about what happened with Subban. Subban has hinted he wasn't happy with the way he was treated but he hasn't told the full story, and MB keeps insisting it was a hockey trade. We don't know the whole truth about Radulov, with each side saying the other is lying. And we don't know the truth about Markov, with the player saying he was willing to accept a one-year deal and MB saying that came too late and that the contract demands were exorbitant. We don't know why we dealt Tinordi for John Scott, since MB insists it had nothing to do with the drug test and that he knew nothing about that. We don't know why the team traded Beaulieu for a 3rd rounder when lesser D men fetched better returns.

So don't be so certain we'll figure out the truth. There's a recurring pattern here that suggests MB has been less than truthful with us about a lot of things and that the entire truth will never come to light.

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57 minutes ago, Habs=stanleycup said:

I'm sure that once/or if he has been traded the truth will come out anyway.

If there is something going on it could be why we can't trade him if that has been tried. It could be an issue the whole league is aware of.

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8 minutes ago, habs1952 said:

If there is something going on it could be why we can't trade him if that has been tried. It could be an issue the whole league is aware of.

 

5 minutes ago, jwlk said:

think if that was the case something would have come out by now

The only thing that somewhat came out was the incident he had about a year or so ago when his girflfriend was arrested for domestic violence. The story was that she came home and found him partying with DSP and a number of other women and freaked out on him. There were rumors on the internet-  and again I'll reiterate that these were random people posting this and it was never verified by any sort of legitimate source -- that there was cocaine at this party. This isn't to say Galchenyuk was doing cocaine nor that the rumors are necessarily true though.

The cocaine issue in the NHL isn't a new one. Bettman and Bill Daly acknowledged there was a cocaine problem among some NHL players a couple of years ago:

http://www.tsn.ca/on-eve-of-season-nhl-acknowledges-possibly-more-players-using-cocaine-1.372075

It was rumored that Jiri Hudler was recently thrown off a flight for acting bizarrely and demanding cocaine. Players like Ryan Malone and Jarret Stoll and Bob Probert have been in trouble for it before. And there have been reports from some players saying the issue is on the rise recently. Interesting to note from the Daly interview that they try to help players get medical attention and counseling but it doesn't necessarily lead to suspension or publicly naming the players.

So all that to say that there is nothing nor has there ever been anything confirmed about Galchenyuk, but there are rumors out there. That said, if MB suspended and traded Kassian for being a passenger in a drunk driving incident and showing lack of judgment, why hasn't he traded AG yet? Why continue to let him play but play him on the 4th line if you think he's doing illicit drugs? That doesn't really help the team nor the player any. Really fishing for answers and nothing really makes sense, but if you're asking about whether there's ever been anything reported about AG, this is as close as it comes.

 

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13 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Why continue to let him play but play him on the 4th line if you think he's doing illicit drugs? That doesn't really help the team nor the player any. 

None of it helps the team or the player - or even the player's value - if you hope to trade him.

I have no answers either.  If its a case of Management trying to 'break him' of certain habits and simplify his game or something, i think they are going about it the wrong way.  Some players (if you demoted Gallagher for example) i think would respond how you want them to but clearly AG isnt.

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He is good enough to be in the lineup for sure, that is why they keep him there, but I really don't see any forward as dissengaged from the play as Galchenyk. With his skill and size you would think by now he would have forced the coaches to play him on the top lines, but all he has done is force Julien to move him down the lineup. I think Therrien broke this kid by not utilizing him as a center when he first came into this league. Take the good with the bad and let the kid grow. I think Therrien took away any self confidence that this kid had. And he looks like he is mentally unable to  engage the game at this level....All the skills he has are not enough if he cannot engage in the game....

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16 minutes ago, Ravadak said:

He is good enough to be in the lineup for sure, that is why they keep him there, but I really don't see any forward as dissengaged from the play as Galchenyk. With his skill and size you would think by now he would have forced the coaches to play him on the top lines, but all he has done is force Julien to move him down the lineup. I think Therrien broke this kid by not utilizing him as a center when he first came into this league. Take the good with the bad and let the kid grow. I think Therrien took away any self confidence that this kid had. And he looks like he is mentally unable to  engage the game at this level....All the skills he has are not enough if he cannot engage in the game....

I think that's the logical explanation. So many of our prospects have just never developed and even after they're traded, they don't pan out. Maybe because they've been taught badly and because their confidence has been rock bottom for so long.

In Galchenyuk's case though, he's been given the reputation of being a coaster from time to time, just like Kovalev and Semin and Latendresse and Kostitsyn were before him. But you know what? If a guy can be that much of a coaster and STILL lead the team in points per ice time, doesn't that even further suggest he's got a ton of skill? If he can look that out of it but still out-produce all his teammates, what does that say for the likes of Gallagher and Shaw and Danault and Mitchell, who might work really hard but can't put up Galchenyuk's point totals despite that? I think you simply have to live with the process if the results are there, and the stats say that Galchenyuk has done more with less since he's been here. Instead of tough love (which clearly doesn't work in his case), how about giving the guy 1C minutes (which has clearly worked several times in the past) and seeing if that helps both him and the team?

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32 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

I think that's the logical explanation. So many of our prospects have just never developed and even after they're traded, they don't pan out. Maybe because they've been taught badly and because their confidence has been rock bottom for so long.

In Galchenyuk's case though, he's been given the reputation of being a coaster from time to time, just like Kovalev and Semin and Latendresse and Kostitsyn were before him. But you know what? If a guy can be that much of a coaster and STILL lead the team in points per ice time, doesn't that even further suggest he's got a ton of skill? If he can look that out of it but still out-produce all his teammates, what does that say for the likes of Gallagher and Shaw and Danault and Mitchell, who might work really hard but can't put up Galchenyuk's point totals despite that? I think you simply have to live with the process if the results are there, and the stats say that Galchenyuk has done more with less since he's been here. Instead of tough love (which clearly doesn't work in his case), how about giving the guy 1C minutes (which has clearly worked several times in the past) and seeing if that helps both him and the team?

because they may not like him, hes the new suban, and when there done with him whos next

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10 minutes ago, jwlk said:

because they may not like him, hes the new suban, and when there done with him whos next

I'm not sold on whether they like Hudon to be honest. He was overlooked many times for call-ups and when he did get up, got little to no chance. Grant it, that was under Therrien, but MB was part of those decisions as well and he's still there. Even now, Hudon got dropped to the 4th line in the middle of the game the other night and he's now on the 3rd. So I have a feeling he'll have an uphill battle to get his fair share of ice time too. This organization (under Bergevin) really seems to like guys who look like they're working hard but they don't like players with skill who stick-handle a lot and try to carry the puck. Subban, Briere, Sekac, Galchenyuk, Andrighetto, etc. So it's not looking good for AG, but I'd worry Hudon will become the new Chucky after he's gone.

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He is not the new Subban, never was and never will be. That issue is not relevant at all when talking about Galchenyk. Subban was and is an elite defenceman in the game. He was one of the best at his position and still is.  I am to this very minute still scratching my head over the Subban Trade...

Galchenyuk's point totals should be higher then anyone else on the team despite getting fewer minutes. His offensive zone ratio starts was a whopping 68% he started in the offensive zone more often then 700 players in the NHL last season. There were only about 20 players in the whole league who got more % offensive zone starts.. Because once the puck is out of the offensive zone he is terrible one of the worst in the league. You cannot have your first line center require that much isolation. Even Desheranis, who I also felt was getting preferential treatment was only around 58%.

Galchnyk, Patches and Radulov had a corsi plus mius - 2 playing 135 minutes together one of the worst line combos last season on the habs. RelCF/60, -.67. The only other line over 100 minutes that was worse was Torrey Mitchel, Brian Flynn and Danualt. When they moved Danualt up with Patches and Rads the line had a corsi plus minus  of a + 111over 443 minutes. Rel CF/60 +5.68. 

With Galchenyk the relative Rel DZS% was -19.61..

With Danualt Rel DZS% - 7.41... they were able to get there best players out more often with less worry.

There was only one line with a higher Rel DZS%

Galchenyk, Radulov and Byron...Rel DZS -30.92%

Do you see the trend?..They tried to find a spot for him but could not.. And its happening again. It gret you can score 30 goals but if at the same time the other team is getting 45 its not so great..

 

 

 

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27 minutes ago, Ravadak said:

He is not the new Subban, never was and never will be. That issue is not relevant at all when talking about Galchenyk. Subban was and is an elite defenceman in the game. He was one of the best at his position and still is.  I am to this very minute still scratching my head over the Subban Trade...

Galchenyuk's point totals should be higher then anyone else on the team despite getting fewer minutes. His offensive zone ratio starts was a whopping 68% he started in the offensive zone more often then 700 players in the NHL last season. There were only about 20 players in the whole league who got more % offensive zone starts.. Because once the puck is out of the offensive zone he is terrible one of the worst in the league. You cannot have your first line center require that much isolation. Even Desheranis, who I also felt was getting preferential treatment was only around 58%.

Galchnyk, Patches and Radulov had a corsi plus mius - 2 playing 135 minutes together one of the worst line combos last season on the habs. RelCF/60, -.67. The only other line over 100 minutes that was worse was Torrey Mitchel, Brian Flynn and Danualt. When they moved Danualt up with Patches and Rads the line had a corsi plus minus  of a + 111over 443 minutes. Rel CF/60 +5.68. 

With Galchenyk the relative Rel DZS% was -19.61..

With Danualt Rel DZS% - 7.41... they were able to get there best players out more often with less worry.

There was only one line with a higher Rel DZS%

Galchenyk, Radulov and Byron...Rel DZS -30.92%

Do you see the trend?..They tried to find a spot for him but could not.. And its happening again. It gret you can score 30 goals but if at the same time the other team is getting 45 its not so great..

Once again, not saying Galchenyuk is at the same level as Subban, but the treatment he has been offered is of the same nature. In both cases, you have a skilled player who is being held to a higher standard than his teammates and punished out of proportion to what others get for the same thing. Subban falls down and we give up a GWG, he gets called out in the media. Markov does it in OT and the coach says nothing. Subban takes a penalty and he's ripped for being a seflish and undisciplined player. Shaw or Pacioretty does it and there's no benching, no calling out, no consequences. Same thing for AG... he fails to score for 5 games and he's whipped out of the top 6. Desharnais or Pacioretty or Gallagher fail to score for 10 games and they're right where they were before. Galchenyuk makes a giveaway and he's benched. Drouin makes a giveaway and he's allowed to play on. Galchenyuk is told he can't play center because he lacks the experience there, but Danault and Drouin and McCarron are all allowed to play center despite even less experience.

Agreed that AG's overall possession numbers are decent but very average for the team. But his production numbers are very good, and while I don't have access to the raw data, I think if you look at the games where he was exclusively played as a center over the past few years, his numbers are better than when he was played as a winger. His numbers in the top 6 are certainly better than when he was in the bottom 6 playing with King and Ott and Mitchell and Shaw. As for Galchenyuk "scoring 30 but being on for 45", well the numbers just don't support that claim. Between 2014 and now, Galchenyuk has been on for 133 goals for at 5v5 and 119 against. Do you know who has a negative differential, despite playing most of last year on the top line? Philip Danault. Over the same span, he's been on for 53 for and 56 against. I don't ascribe to +/- being a useful stat, but if you're going to use it as a reason to not play Galchenyuk, it's simply not. No, his defensive game is not good, but his offensive contribution outweighs his defensive lacunes. And frankly, the old adage in the NHL is that coaches can teach defence but not offence. So if AG is really that bad defensively, what will fix it is coaching him to play better positionally and experience to learn from his mistakes. He won't learn by being benched and yelled at.

Lastly, the Habs have put most of their stock in Carey Price. He's supposed to be a top goalie in the league, even if he hasn't started the season that way. If you really believe your goalie is better than the other team's (and the contract MB gave Price suggests he should believe that), then you should absolutely want a high-event game. You don't want or need a game where teams are getting 20 shots on goal each. You want the game where teams are getting 40 shots each and trading scoring chances. That gives you better odds that your .930 goalie will outduel the .915 goalie at the other end, instead of one fluke goal deciding the outcome. So what type of player best fits the style of game that maximizes Carey's potential benefit to our team? It's not the Shaw/Danault/Plekanec/Ott/DLR type. It's not the player who is sound defensively but who doesn't generate much offence and can't score. No, the guy you want is the Galchenyuk type, who will get you 30 goals and maybe gives up a few more scoring chances but also generates more scoring chances for you at the same time. If you really believe Price is the backbone of the team, then Galchenyuk is a better complement to him than Danault is, just as puck-moving, offence-generating defencemen become more valuable than slow shot blocking D men. Play up tempo. Trade chances. Trust your goalie to be better than their goalie. The Habs have been stuck in a rut of trying to play safe hockey and go defence-first and take no risks, and that really isn't the style that melds best with the roster they have.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Ravadak said:

He is not the new Subban, never was and never will be. That issue is not relevant at all when talking about Galchenyk. Subban was and is an elite defenceman in the game. He was one of the best at his position and still is.  I am to this very minute still scratching my head over the Subban Trade...

Galchenyuk's point totals should be higher then anyone else on the team despite getting fewer minutes. His offensive zone ratio starts was a whopping 68% he started in the offensive zone more often then 700 players in the NHL last season. There were only about 20 players in the whole league who got more % offensive zone starts.. Because once the puck is out of the offensive zone he is terrible one of the worst in the league. You cannot have your first line center require that much isolation. Even Desheranis, who I also felt was getting preferential treatment was only around 58%.

Galchnyk, Patches and Radulov had a corsi plus mius - 2 playing 135 minutes together one of the worst line combos last season on the habs. RelCF/60, -.67. The only other line over 100 minutes that was worse was Torrey Mitchel, Brian Flynn and Danualt. When they moved Danualt up with Patches and Rads the line had a corsi plus minus  of a + 111over 443 minutes. Rel CF/60 +5.68. 

With Galchenyk the relative Rel DZS% was -19.61..

With Danualt Rel DZS% - 7.41... they were able to get there best players out more often with less worry.

There was only one line with a higher Rel DZS%

Galchenyk, Radulov and Byron...Rel DZS -30.92%

Do you see the trend?..They tried to find a spot for him but could not.. And its happening again. It gret you can score 30 goals but if at the same time the other team is getting 45 its not so great..

 

 

 

The only analytic that matters to the Habs is beer sales. 

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The article also does point out how he has been lazy on the defensive side of his game and if he wants to get promoted he needs to at least give the ole 110% not just go through the paces because he's not inspired. Maybe this is part of the Millennial generation? Just because you have talent and were a high draft pick you still have to work. Jullien is a good coach that you can make mistakes if you're giving effort. A very small percentage of hockey players get to play in the NHL. So he's a 23 year old millionaire playing hockey in Montreal ,how horrible. Even if it's on the 3rd or 4th line he should show his skill and determination. I'd actually like to see him with Pacs and Druin. I also would like to see him EARN that spot. It's not fair to other players if he gets special treatment and doesn't earn his spot.  

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1 minute ago, CaptWelly said:

The article also does point out how he has been lazy on the defensive side of his game and if he wants to get promoted he needs to at least give the ole 110% not just go through the paces because he's not inspired. Maybe this is part of the Millennial generation? Just because you have talent and were a high draft pick you still have to work. Jullien is a good coach that you can make mistakes if you're giving effort. A very small percentage of hockey players get to play in the NHL. So he's a 23 year old millionaire playing hockey in Montreal ,how horrible. Even if it's on the 3rd or 4th line he should show his skill and determination. I'd actually like to see him with Pacs and Druin. I also would like to see him EARN that spot. It's not fair to other players if he gets special treatment and doesn't earn his spot.  

the article points out hes a one way player, stop trying to make him something he isnt, yeah and playing with 4th liners is really inspiring, jullien may be a good coach but he was only hired because hes the best french coach available, and id assume u believe everyone in the top 6 deserves that spot over him, if they really wanted him going they would premote him not demote him, but i guess best way to get him player better is with no ice time and scrubs players, my bad

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4 minutes ago, CaptWelly said:

The article also does point out how he has been lazy on the defensive side of his game and if he wants to get promoted he needs to at least give the ole 110% not just go through the paces because he's not inspired. Maybe this is part of the Millennial generation? Just because you have talent and were a high draft pick you still have to work. Jullien is a good coach that you can make mistakes if you're giving effort. A very small percentage of hockey players get to play in the NHL. So he's a 23 year old millionaire playing hockey in Montreal ,how horrible. Even if it's on the 3rd or 4th line he should show his skill and determination. I'd actually like to see him with Pacs and Druin. I also would like to see him EARN that spot. It's not fair to other players if he gets special treatment and doesn't earn his spot

Thing is... he hasn't while others have

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20 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Once again, not saying Galchenyuk is at the same level as Subban, but the treatment he has been offered is of the same nature. In both cases, you have a skilled player who is being held to a higher standard than his teammates and punished out of proportion to what others get for the same thing. Subban falls down and we give up a GWG, he gets called out in the media. Markov does it in OT and the coach says nothing. Subban takes a penalty and he's ripped for being a seflish and undisciplined player. Shaw or Pacioretty does it and there's no benching, no calling out, no consequences. Same thing for AG... he fails to score for 5 games and he's whipped out of the top 6. Desharnais or Pacioretty or Gallagher fail to score for 10 games and they're right where they were before. Galchenyuk makes a giveaway and he's benched. Drouin makes a giveaway and he's allowed to play on. Galchenyuk is told he can't play center because he lacks the experience there, but Danault and Drouin and McCarron are all allowed to play center despite even less experience.

Life isn't fair some players have to work harder than others its a fact. It never stopped Subban from getting better and better and better even after everything they did to him. This is not isolated to the habs it happens in all of hockey right from the minor level up to the NHL level. If he worked as hard as subban to get better if his game showed improvement over and over and over like Subban then you have a legit beef. I am not defending other players over Galchenyk He was a top 3 pick he should be making his mark on any of the top 3 lines. Zero Zilch, no effort since he cam back from the injury last season. 

Agreed that AG's overall possession numbers are decent but very average for the team. But his production numbers are very good, and while I don't have access to the raw data, I think if you look at the games where he was exclusively played as a center over the past few years, his numbers are better than when he was played as a winger. His numbers in the top 6 are certainly better than when he was in the bottom 6 playing with King and Ott and Mitchell and Shaw. As for Galchenyuk "scoring 30 but being on for 45", well the numbers just don't support that claim. Between 2014 and now, Galchenyuk has been on for 133 goals for at 5v5 and 119 against. Do you know who has a negative differential, despite playing most of last year on the top line? Philip Danault. Over the same span, he's been on for 53 for and 56 against. I don't ascribe to +/- being a useful stat, but if you're going to use it as a reason to not play Galchenyuk, it's simply not. No, his defensive game is not good, but his offensive contribution outweighs his defensive lacunes. And frankly, the old adage in the NHL is that coaches can teach defence but not offence. So if AG is really that bad defensively, what will fix it is coaching him to play better positionally and experience to learn from his mistakes. He won't learn by being benched and yelled at.

I am not sure where you get those number since the start of 2015 Galchenyk is a minus 14. Danualt is a minus 1 ..

Lastly, the Habs have put most of their stock in Carey Price. He's supposed to be a top goalie in the league, even if he hasn't started the season that way. If you really believe your goalie is better than the other team's (and the contract MB gave Price suggests he should believe that), then you should absolutely want a high-event game. You don't want or need a game where teams are getting 20 shots on goal each. You want the game where teams are getting 40 shots each and trading scoring chances. That gives you better odds that your .930 goalie will outduel the .915 goalie at the other end, instead of one fluke goal deciding the outcome. So what type of player best fits the style of game that maximizes Carey's potential benefit to our team? It's not the Shaw/Danault/Plekanec/Ott/DLR type. It's not the player who is sound defensively but who doesn't generate much offence and can't score. No, the guy you want is the Galchenyuk type, who will get you 30 goals and maybe gives up a few more scoring chances but also generates more scoring chances for you at the same time. If you really believe Price is the backbone of the team, then Galchenyuk is a better complement to him than Danault is, just as puck-moving, offence-generating defencemen become more valuable than slow shot blocking D men. Play up tempo. Trade chances. Trust your goalie to be better than their goalie. The Habs have been stuck in a rut of trying to play safe hockey and go defence-first and take no risks, and that really isn't the style that melds best with the roster they have.

This just makes no logical sense at all Sorry Big Ted. It would only make sense if our team could score as well as Pittsburg or Washington or the Leafs.

If price gives up 2 goals to Washington on 20 shots ...and Montreal only scores 1 goal on 20 shots against Washington. If we open up the game and take 40 shots and Washington gets 40 shots  theoretically,  Washington would score another 2 goals and Montreal 1 more goal. So instead of losing 2 to 1 we lose 4 to 2. You have taken into account how good price is but not how good offensively the other team is compared to us.......

 

 

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34 minutes ago, habs_93 said:

Yep.

This narrative that he's just "getting what he deserves" is ridiculous, and not supported by facts.

Actually it is and there are lots of facts to prove it.

One alone being Offensive Zone starts. There were 700 players in the league with a lower percentage of offensive zone starts last. And every player on the Habs at fewer offensive zone starts then Galchenyk. Yet he is not added anything offensively to the team since his return from leg injury last seaon, to even come close to compensating for his effort, lack of engagement, and his brutal defenses lapses..

 

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look either way if you want to get him going, light a fire, anything it aint gonna happen on the 4th line,if your ok with putting him on the 4th line to rot, undef the life isnt fair act, than thats your opinion, so we let him rot and trade him for nothing, love this logic, its MB logic

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