Jump to content
The Official Site of the Montréal Canadiens
Canadiens de Montreal

Marc Bergevin and staff 2017-18


habs_93
 Share

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, maas_art said:

The more i read about Bergevin vs Subban (or Galchenyuk or any other talented young player for that matter) it reeks of jealousy.  Like MB as a journeyman defensman had to "work for everything he got" and because guys like Subban are so naturally talented its handed to them on a silver platter... which is such a crock.  Subban worked his behind off all the time. Its the same thing you saw with Gretzky and Crosby - people calling them whiners, or soft or what have you just because they are so freaking talented it looks like it comes easily, but it doesnt.   Worse though is that never have I seen the general manager of their own team act like this. 

Thats why he likes talented 'tough' players like Gallagher or Weber - because you can tell they had to 'work for it' but guys like Subban?  Pfft. He just gets an easy ride. I mean heck, Gallagher didnt even have to get a bridge deal! Name me one talented player (aside from Drouin whom he pretty much had to sign long term) who didnt have to?
 

price:4322:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Maybe it was a 15-year plan? The first 5 years are trial and error, the next 5 years are total rebuild, and then the last 5 years are epic dynasty.

We could all be dead by then. :(

 

 

 

Well ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, some of us anyway. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

From Go Habs Go:

"According to LeBrun, owner Geoff Molson still has full confidence in Bergevin and his not panicking like the fan base and local media. This team still has plenty of time to qualify for the playoffs this year so he is not ready to make a change.

However, Molson’s feeling can easily change in the spring if the Canadiens fail to qualify for the Stanley Cup playoffs for the second time in the last three years."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, kinot-2 said:

From Go Habs Go:

"According to LeBrun, owner Geoff Molson still has full confidence in Bergevin and his not panicking like the fan base and local media. This team still has plenty of time to qualify for the playoffs this year so he is not ready to make a change.

However, Molson’s feeling can easily change in the spring if the Canadiens fail to qualify for the Stanley Cup playoffs for the second time in the last three years."

Theoretically, the bolded part is true.  Teams go on extended win streaks all the time and there's no real reason we cant mathmatically make the playoffs -  but man its going to be a huge uphill climb.  If we dont find some way to make this roster better (ie, get a top 2 centre, find someone to play solid minutes next to weber, fix or get rid of Alzner and get the old carey price back) we will not even stand a chance.  If we were to instantly improve our roster then sure, we can start winning and we can make the playoffs.  It seems like a bit of a pipe dream right now though. 

As a fan, I understand the frustration with molson for not stepping in, but from a business standpoint i get it. You delegate, you give your staff a chance to follow through and since there is still time this year, I get that MB is being given slack.  Can he solve our staffing issues?  can we right the ship?     Whatever the result, if we miss the playoffs (which we sure look destined to do) I think MB is gone.   Wasting a year to find out (what most of us already know) sucks, but my bigger concern is that he (MB) makes a panic move or two to get us into the post season now but not really able to compete & then in worse shape going forward. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/23/2017 at 9:27 AM, maas_art said:

As a fan, I understand the frustration with molson for not stepping in, but from a business standpoint i get it. You delegate, you give your staff a chance to follow through and since there is still time this year, I get that MB is being given slack.  Can he solve our staffing issues?  can we right the ship?     Whatever the result, if we miss the playoffs (which we sure look destined to do) I think MB is gone.   Wasting a year to find out (what most of us already know) sucks, but my bigger concern is that he (MB) makes a panic move or two to get us into the post season now but not really able to compete & then in worse shape going forward. 

See, it's the "from a business standpoint" part that I don't get.  The team hasn't won a championship in 24 years.  That's bad for business.  Then a player of generational talent gets traded away in favor of a coach that was never going to take this team anywhere, and what does that "selfish" and "cancerous" player do with the team he was just traded to?  Take it all the way to the Stanley Cup Finals, that's what.  Tell me that wasn't bad for business.  Isn't the point of professional sports to win championships?  It sure was with the Montreal Canadiens of old.  Were all those championships somehow bad for business?  I doubt it.  

No, in professional sports, winning is what the business is all about.  Every team sells season tickets and beer, but only playoff teams get to sell playoff tickets and playoff beer, and only teams that go to the finals get to sell tickets and beer for the finals.  Then there's also the additional advertising and other forms of revenue.  Plus, most good players would love to play for a winning team.  Doesn't it make more business sense to win?  

If I were the owner, I wouldn't have to "step in" because whoever I hired would know right away that it's all about winning.  No politics, no language preference, and no other issues take precedent over winning.  It's best player available, best coach available, best system possible, and best effort from whistle to whistle.  If that gets interrupted or derailed for whatever reason, it should be no surprise that changes are necessary.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

^^^ The point of professional sports, from a business standpoint is to make money. Winning championships can accomplish that to a certain degree but thats only one part.
Montreal has always & continues to be one of the top valued team in the NHL.   Forbes' last valuation has us standing firm at 2nd place (where we've been for a while) with the Rangers first.   

Sure, going deep in the playoffs earns you revenue each game but thats gravy.  Montreal ownership makes a ton of money on ticket sales but way more on royalties, advertising, tv & radio deals etc. 

So i dont think there's any real motivation on Geoff Moslon to step in from a money standpoint. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's true that the Canadiens are going to make money regardless, but I can't imagine that they don't make more money in years when they go deep into the playoffs.  It's not just the tickets and beer either - the more people are invested in the team (and winning helps with this) the more they're going to be able to sell merchandise, advertising, etc.  In the year that Halak helped to take them past Washington and Pittsburgh I remember seeing Habs stuff absolutely everywhere, and that was in Halifax.

And I know I've done nothing but harp on the trade since it happened (I keep telling myself I'll move on one day :P) but something like trading Subban has got to have some impact on the team's bottom line outside of hockey operations as well.  I'd imagine there were a whole lot of kids who were big Subban fans, and those future consumers are now a little bit less enchanted with the Montreal Canadiens brand.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, maas_art said:

^^^ The point of professional sports, from a business standpoint is to make money. Winning championships can accomplish that to a certain degree but thats only one part.
Montreal has always & continues to be one of the top valued team in the NHL.   Forbes' last valuation has us standing firm at 2nd place (where we've been for a while) with the Rangers first.   

Sure, going deep in the playoffs earns you revenue each game but thats gravy.  Montreal ownership makes a ton of money on ticket sales but way more on royalties, advertising, tv & radio deals etc. 

So i dont think there's any real motivation on Geoff Moslon to step in from a money standpoint. 

I would disagree with your opinion, but I will also recognize that you may be correct as it pertains to one Geoff Molson.  He may totally disagree that winning championships helps his bottom line; in fact, he might even be taking advantage of some of those "creative" ways of financing one business's losses against another so that he doesn't even care if the Habs finish last - it's just another write off for him at tax time.  Gee, that's reassuring as a fan, isn't it? 

But I will also submit that the sole reason the Montreal Canadiens became one of the top-valued teams in the NHL is all those championships and great teams of the past.  Now before you jump back with the fact that the Toronto Maple Leafs, who haven't won as many championships or any as recently as the Habs, are another high-value franchise, the city of Toronto is clearly in a whole other class from Montreal in about a dozen other categories (like population, multinational culture, business, media, the fact that it's the capital of Ontario, etc. etc.).  I would place Montreal more in a category of teams like Quebec and Winnipeg who eventually lost their franchises because of financial conditions.  I believe that is a possibility in Montreal because it seems to me that any sports team anywhere (except maybe the Green Bay Packers) can be sold or transported to "greener pastures" if the need arises.  It happens to NFL franchises a lot, and there's LOTS of money to be made in the NFL.  

Besides, all those "royalties, advertising, TV and radio deals, etc." you mention only get better if you're winning playoff games and championships, so they are obviously less lucrative for a losing team.  How well do you think the Arizona Coyotes are doing with "royalties" right now?  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

44 minutes ago, Manatee-X said:

It's true that the Canadiens are going to make money regardless, but I can't imagine that they don't make more money in years when they go deep into the playoffs.  It's not just the tickets and beer either - the more people are invested in the team (and winning helps with this) the more they're going to be able to sell merchandise, advertising, etc.  In the year that Halak helped to take them past Washington and Pittsburgh I remember seeing Habs stuff absolutely everywhere, and that was in Halifax.

And I know I've done nothing but harp on the trade since it happened (I keep telling myself I'll move on one day :P) but something like trading Subban has got to have some impact on the team's bottom line outside of hockey operations as well.  I'd imagine there were a whole lot of kids who were big Subban fans, and those future consumers are now a little bit less enchanted with the Montreal Canadiens brand.

 

7 minutes ago, vegasrick said:

I would disagree with your opinion, but I will also recognize that you may be correct as it pertains to one Geoff Molson.  He may totally disagree that winning championships helps his bottom line; in fact, he might even be taking advantage of some of those "creative" ways of financing one business's losses against another so that he doesn't even care if the Habs finish last - it's just another write off for him at tax time.  Gee, that's reassuring as a fan, isn't it? 

But I will also submit that the sole reason the Montreal Canadiens became one of the top-valued teams in the NHL is all those championships and great teams of the past.  Now before you jump back with the fact that the Toronto Maple Leafs, who haven't won as many championships or any as recently as the Habs, are another high-value franchise, the city of Toronto is clearly in a whole other class from Montreal in about a dozen other categories (like population, multinational culture, business, media, the fact that it's the capital of Ontario, etc. etc.).  I would place Montreal more in a category of teams like Quebec and Winnipeg who eventually lost their franchises because of financial conditions.  I believe that is a possibility in Montreal because it seems to me that any sports team anywhere (except maybe the Green Bay Packers) can be sold or transported to "greener pastures" if the need arises.  It happens to NFL franchises a lot, and there's LOTS of money to be made in the NFL.  

Besides, all those "royalties, advertising, TV and radio deals, etc." you mention only get better if you're winning playoff games and championships, so they are obviously less lucrative for a losing team.  How well do you think the Arizona Coyotes are doing with "royalties" right now?  

Dont get me wrong, Im not saying that the team is doing things right - or that it couldnt be better - im just saying that I dont think Molson is worried about his bottom line right now (although he should be).

If he bought into (and seems to have) MB's "grit and character" sales pitch then he probably thinks we're on the right path already.   And while I wholeheartedly agree that a guy like Subban will sell more jerseys than Weber, I think Molson thinks that MB's plan will eventually pay off and once we win the championship (lol!) the dividends will be worth it.  Weber "conn smyth" probably sells pretty close to Pk jerseys... but the likelihood... yikes. 


I believe that currently we are playing on 'borrowed time' - meaning (as VR pointed out) we have a high valuation because of our past exploits.  At a certain point (if it hasnt already) the fanbase will start dwindling and the ownership group will start seeing it on their bottom line.   For now though I dont think they feel the pressure of a small market club with little income and no likelihood of winning.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, vegasrick said:

See, it's the "from a business standpoint" part that I don't get.  The team hasn't won a championship in 24 years.  That's bad for business.  Then a player of generational talent gets traded away in favor of a coach that was never going to take this team anywhere, and what does that "selfish" and "cancerous" player do with the team he was just traded to?  Take it all the way to the Stanley Cup Finals, that's what.  Tell me that wasn't bad for business.  Isn't the point of professional sports to win championships?  It sure was with the Montreal Canadiens of old.  Were all those championships somehow bad for business?  I doubt it.  

No, in professional sports, winning is what the business is all about.  Every team sells season tickets and beer, but only playoff teams get to sell playoff tickets and playoff beer, and only teams that go to the finals get to sell tickets and beer for the finals.  Then there's also the additional advertising and other forms of revenue.  Plus, most good players would love to play for a winning team.  Doesn't it make more business sense to win?  

If I were the owner, I wouldn't have to "step in" because whoever I hired would know right away that it's all about winning.  No politics, no language preference, and no other issues take precedent over winning.  It's best player available, best coach available, best system possible, and best effort from whistle to whistle.  If that gets interrupted or derailed for whatever reason, it should be no surprise that changes are necessary.  

:2008122810303:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, maas_art said:

 

Dont get me wrong, Im not saying that the team is doing things right - or that it couldnt be better - im just saying that I dont think Molson is worried about his bottom line right now (although he should be).

If he bought into (and seems to have) MB's "grit and character" sales pitch then he probably thinks we're on the right path already.   And while I wholeheartedly agree that a guy like Subban will sell more jerseys than Weber, I think Molson thinks that MB's plan will eventually pay off and once we win the championship (lol!) the dividends will be worth it.  Weber "conn smyth" probably sells pretty close to Pk jerseys... but the likelihood... yikes. 


I believe that currently we are playing on 'borrowed time' - meaning (as VR pointed out) we have a high valuation because of our past exploits.  At a certain point (if it hasnt already) the fanbase will start dwindling and the ownership group will start seeing it on their bottom line.   For now though I dont think they feel the pressure of a small market club with little income and no likelihood of winning.

Agreed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess really it's all a matter of inertia - a team like Montreal has built up a lot of it, so it's going to take a longer time before they feel a big financial hit from losing.  But it will come. 

As the greats of the past get farther and farther away their impact lessens.  I grew up hearing about how my father watched the great teams of the 70s; it's unlikely I'll be regaling my own son with the fabulous tales of Richard Zednik.  It's exciting seasons (or at the very least exciting players) that make kids into hockey fans, and with so many options for entertainment now it's going to be even harder to keep them interested.  Right now in Montreal the Canadiens are still cool/popular/<your slang term of choice>, but that won't continue with a team that's both not winning and seemingly dedicated to icing the most boring-to-watch team possible.

 

I think you're right though, Jed, that Molson probably bought into what Bergevin was saying.  And to be honest I can't really blame him - they obviously had enough trust in MB to hire him, and I think that generally it's smarter if the owner does give trust to his GM and stays out of the decisions.  But at a certain point, when the losses pile up and the public pressure starts to mount, he's going to start to change his mind.  Until now Bergevin has had Therrien to take the blame as a bit of a "stress release valve", but there's really nowhere else to look.  It used to be largely the "advanced stats" crowd that was down on Bergevin.  This year, though?  I don't think I've read a single positive article about him. 

Unless we pull a rabbit out of our hats and make it deep into the post season, I honestly can't see Bergevin being back as GM to start next season.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, maas_art said:

 

Dont get me wrong, Im not saying that the team is doing things right - or that it couldnt be better - im just saying that I dont think Molson is worried about his bottom line right now (although he should be).

If he bought into (and seems to have) MB's "grit and character" sales pitch then he probably thinks we're on the right path already.   And while I wholeheartedly agree that a guy like Subban will sell more jerseys than Weber, I think Molson thinks that MB's plan will eventually pay off and once we win the championship (lol!) the dividends will be worth it.  Weber "conn smyth" probably sells pretty close to Pk jerseys... but the likelihood... yikes. 


I believe that currently we are playing on 'borrowed time' - meaning (as VR pointed out) we have a high valuation because of our past exploits.  At a certain point (if it hasnt already) the fanbase will start dwindling and the ownership group will start seeing it on their bottom line.   For now though I dont think they feel the pressure of a small market club with little income and no likelihood of winning.

The giant difference compared to any US team or a different sport the NFL. In Canada Hockey is it! Edmonton was terrible for years even with several top picks and continued to sell out just like Toronto so if Edmonton doesn't make the playoffs this year do their fans quit on them I dought it. In the US markets people have several choices and if a team isn't winning now don't wait and watch other sports including things like NASCAR even. We also have to remember yes we haven't won a cup in to long but we have been top in the division just last year with higher hopes than happened. With fans reactions to favorite players being dealt yes it happens Gretsky, Subban (who's new team went to the finals , but they almost didn't even make the playoffs while we finished first, I'm sure Mr. Molson say that also) who ever. The vast majority continue to support their team ,rarely ever switch teams because. Other players come along and they'll choose a new favorite. Even as the team is losing we are all on this Montreal Canadiens web site. The team makes money from advertisers this way also. Montreal has very vested fans. Until we all stop posting reading papers and sites and completely stop talking and watching the team it isn't going to matter business wise. It's hockey in Canada Montreal is a major market with a rich history with a die hard strong fan base. There really isn't a strong market for other sports like a New York or L.A. or Detroit or Chicago. Chicago had some good teams went to the finals but when the Bulls had Jordan and were winning championships , tickets were easy and cheap for the Hawks. The Canadian market will continue to support the Canadiens. I don't think Mr. Molson has to much to worry about.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, Manatee-X said:

I think you're right though, Jed, that Molson probably bought into what Bergevin was saying.  And to be honest I can't really blame him - they obviously had enough trust in MB to hire him, and I think that generally it's smarter if the owner does give trust to his GM and stays out of the decisions.  But at a certain point, when the losses pile up and the public pressure starts to mount, he's going to start to change his mind.  Until now Bergevin has had Therrien to take the blame as a bit of a "stress release valve", but there's really nowhere else to look.  It used to be largely the "advanced stats" crowd that was down on Bergevin.  This year, though?  I don't think I've read a single positive article about him. 

Unless we pull a rabbit out of our hats and make it deep into the post season, I honestly can't see Bergevin being back as GM to start next season.

This is kind of what I was getting at but you've explained it better than i could.  I am certain that Molson has at least considered that he's put his faith in the wrong guy, but he bought into MB's plan and now I think he's going to let him see it through at least till the off-season.   The really dumb thing is that while I dont agree with the plan, Bergevin himself really never gave himself a chance to pull it off.  I mean you trade PK for Weber but you never give Weber a partner capable of playing at the same level. You bring in complimentary pieces like Shaw and Danault and Drouin but you leave the huge, gaping hole at middle. (I listed in another thread, our 4 best fowards are all LW!   And even Hudon, who is a natural centre, is playing left wing!! lol talk about roster mismanagement)    

If you're going to try to "win now" you gotta go all in.  If he really thought we could have won, he should have sold off prospects, filled those holes and really got us a chance. instead he half-heartedly made minimal moves to go along with his huge ones (pk, sergachev) and hopefully Molson will see that.

My big concern is that Price is going to come back and be his old self.  Then MB will trade Galchenyuk for a stop-gap at centre or LD  and we will squeak into the playoffs in 8th place.  We'll then upset our 1st round opponent (or lose in 7 games or something) and Molson will give MB a reprieve for being 'close.'

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, maas_art said:

My big concern is that Price is going to come back and be his old self.  Then MB will trade Galchenyuk for a stop-gap at centre or LD  and we will squeak into the playoffs in 8th place.  We'll then upset our 1st round opponent (or lose in 7 games or something) and Molson will give MB a reprieve for being 'close.'

*shudders* Eww.....talk about worst case scenario.  Even if we made it into the playoffs, this team is going NOWHERE.  

I honestly think the Habs have blown it for this season.  Yes, they could go on a tear and squeak into the playoffs, but judging by what I've seen this year with this roster, I can't see that happening at all.  I picture 50/50 hockey the rest of the way, and just as much trouble scoring from here out.  They're just not bad enough to tank, so I see them finishing out of the playoff picture but too high to get a great draft pick.  You know, something that ensures they will keep barely treading water, which is exactly where Bettman wants them.  Besides, it's still Bergevin calling the shots as far as player trades and acquisitions, so what else would we expect?  He'll probably trade our best defensemen (whoever they may be) for more left wings.  I think he has a thing for left wings. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...