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2017-18 The Rumors Thread


BigTed3
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2 minutes ago, jwlk said:

i just hope molson has the ropes on MB before he allows him to move max, i'm actually worried he could make another bad deal, and we could have no big chips left to play

I worry that too. I dont see that Molson will step in at all.
 

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I think basically what we're all pointing at with the JD-MS trade is this: Bergevin was sitting on maybe 4-5 top 9 left wingers, 2-3 RW's, and maybe 2 third-line centers but none for the top 6. He had some LHD but decided to dump Markov, Emelin, and Beaulieu in the same year. Then he does and deals one of the few remaining LHD in Sergachev for Drouin. So now he has zero LHD for his top 4 and adds yet another LW. If you're doing that to set up another trade (we had floated around the thought of Pacioretty for Leddy and Barzal before the season or Weber for Nurse and RNH or so on) then that's one thing. But to not re-sign Markov/Radulov and to not make any more moves to address the gaping holes at LHD and at center AND to not use 8M in cap space, well that's just bizarre and inefficient asset management.

It would be like trading Petry and a 2nd rounder now to acquire Martin Jones. Sure, Jones is a good goalie. But it doesn't help us to have Price and Jones and weaken the right side of the D to acquire a good asset but one that you can't use effectively to get value out of and one that doesn't complement the rest of your roster. If there was a follow-up Price for Tavares or Price for Karlsson deal, then yes, it would make sense. But in itself, the trade just doesn't work. Bergevin was just missing the big picture entirely.

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55 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Bergevin was just missing the big picture entirely.

To me this has been his biggest problem. 

The Subban deal was just awful but as we've talked about, had it been Weber + say, Fisher & Neal then you could say "ok, he's trading a younger, higher end player for a top pairing d and some forwards" in a 'win now' mode.  And then if he followed up by filling other holes and we were a bonefide contender, the PK deal would have at least made sense.

But we drop a younger, faster, more skilled player for an older guy...and do nothing else. Dont get a LHD (Markov was great but even last year I do not think he could have played the whole year next to Weber at his age).  Dont get a top centre.  Danault has far exceeded my expectations but he is at best a poor man's #2c.  Not even close to a #1 but yet, that what we had. 

So that goes back to my 'in a vacuum" comment.  There is just NO PLAN and after 6 years? Thats inexcusable.  If we somehow string together wins thats on Julien (who seems to have at least come up with some sort of system to get this group moving) and more likely, Price, just stopping everything. 

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Still hearing a lot of interest from the Preds for Pacioretty.  He'd be a good fit there too.  

The question is what they'd give back (it wont be Subban im afraid :P)   Unlike a team like Edmonton they dont really have a top line centre to spare. I think they could offer a nice collection of pieces though. 

What about:

Pacioretty 

for

Ekholm (the least Flashy of their top 4 but would slot well into our top 4, maybe top 2)
Trenin (I felt like he should have been included in the PK for Weber swap).  Top end centre prospect
Jarnkrok (slots in right now probably ahead of Danault)

So they end up with one of the top LW ands top goal scorers in the NHL.  We get a top 4 d, a top end centre prospect and a #2-3C.  We could add a complimentary player like Shaw or Benn or Byron if they needed to offset the loss of 2 roster players. 

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1 hour ago, maas_art said:

Still hearing a lot of interest from the Preds for Pacioretty.  He'd be a good fit there too.  

The question is what they'd give back (it wont be Subban im afraid :P)   Unlike a team like Edmonton they dont really have a top line centre to spare. I think they could offer a nice collection of pieces though. 

What about:

Pacioretty 

for

Ekholm (the least Flashy of their top 4 but would slot well into our top 4, maybe top 2)
Trenin (I felt like he should have been included in the PK for Weber swap).  Top end centre prospect
Jarnkrok (slots in right now probably ahead of Danault)

So they end up with one of the top LW ands top goal scorers in the NHL.  We get a top 4 d, a top end centre prospect and a #2-3C.  We could add a complimentary player like Shaw or Benn or Byron if they needed to offset the loss of 2 roster players. 

I watch a lot of Nashville, and I can tell you Ekholm is head and shoulders above all our d including weber. If they agreed to do 1 for 1 we say yes before they change their minds. 

No way poile would give up anything else.

 

I do agree with where your head is at, patch has to be turned into multiple pieces, and not just a mish mash, specific pieces. I love your package from our end.

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4 minutes ago, booboo_mtl said:

I like Ekholm too but if you're dealing with a team like Nash, who's so close, you make them pay the price. Ekholm, prospect ie. Trenin, and a 1st.

But I really doubt Nash is going to trade for Patches with the past "rumoured" PK-Patch issues.

im not saying we dont ask....if we got a package like that for patch id go nuts. imsaying if i were poile i wouldnt even do it for ekholmstraight up. as a matter of fact if they agreed to that straight up i think thats a huge trade to make, that solves 1 LD and plugs a major hole

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Pacioretty would be an excellent fit for Nashville, but that doesn't mean their return is the best fit for us. MB's job is not to find a nice home for the player but to make sure he's bettering our team, and personally, I feel like the Isles, Flames, Flyers, Oilers, Stars, Panthers, or Sabres would have more exciting prospects to send back to us than the Preds. As I've said, we're under no obligation to trade Pacioretty. I also feel like anyone we acquire has to be under the age of 25 AND have the potential to be a top 6 center or a top pairing defenceman, along with at least one other part of the trade (another prospect or 1st round pick or a more established player who's still under 26-27). That to me is the minimum ask. Ekholm is already 27, so as good as he is, I don't think he's the right target. And if Nashville weren't dealing him to acquire Duchene, I doubt they give him up to add Pacioretty either. I'd pass on Nashville and look at organizations that have higher-end young players at center and left D.

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1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

Pacioretty would be an excellent fit for Nashville, but that doesn't mean their return is the best fit for us. MB's job is not to find a nice home for the player but to make sure he's bettering our team, and personally, I feel like the Isles, Flames, Flyers, Oilers, Stars, Panthers, or Sabres would have more exciting prospects to send back to us than the Preds. As I've said, we're under no obligation to trade Pacioretty. I also feel like anyone we acquire has to be under the age of 25 AND have the potential to be a top 6 center or a top pairing defenceman, along with at least one other part of the trade (another prospect or 1st round pick or a more established player who's still under 26-27). That to me is the minimum ask. Ekholm is already 27, so as good as he is, I don't think he's the right target. And if Nashville weren't dealing him to acquire Duchene, I doubt they give him up to add Pacioretty either. I'd pass on Nashville and look at organizations that have higher-end young players at center and left D.

Or you look for a 3rd dance partner.   Edmonton needs defense more than we do even, at least we have Weber and Petry.   I think there's a fit for Pacioretty in edmonton but maybe they feel like if they move RNH they need to get a top defensman back.  Pacioretty (Nash)-Ehkholm (Edm)-RNH (Mon) being the 3 primaries. 

I think MB should have a lot of options.  Whether he exercises them is another story. 

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3 minutes ago, jeff33 said:

I heard st louis was very interested and was offering kyrou +

 very interested in that

He's a high end prospect to be sure but as a RW I dont know Id use my best trade chip to get him.  

I think if Max goes we HAVE to get a centre or at very least a #1 LD  

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3 minutes ago, maas_art said:

He's a high end prospect to be sure but as a RW I dont know Id use my best trade chip to get him.  

I think if Max goes we HAVE to get a centre or at very least a #1 LD  

isnt he a C? I thought for sure he was.....

anyway it was 2 guys off the wjc I cant remember the other one though

You are certainly correct, the return HAS to be a C

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2 hours ago, jeff33 said:

isnt he a C? I thought for sure he was.....

anyway it was 2 guys off the wjc I cant remember the other one though

You are certainly correct, the return HAS to be a C

Robert Thomas is the guy who's been in more rumors re: Stl. He is a center. I think Kyrou has played both wing and center.

Agree with the sentiment that you need to get either a high-end center prospect or a high-end LHD prospect back, plus at least one other prospect/pick, maybe two. As I said, Ehkolm just doesn't cut it for me. I'd definitely take Ekholm if I thought we were contenders in the next two years. But I don't see the purpose in dealing Pacioretty for a player who'll be 28 next year. That's not really saving us much in terms of getting younger, and it doesn't address our needs for more scoring nor does it help too much with puck movement from the back end, because Ekholm is not much of a puck carrier. Very good player but not a fit for us IMO.

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https://www.tsn.ca/evander-kane-tops-tsn-trade-bait-board-1.965103

Not sure what this ranking is supposed to mean but on what planet are Patrick Maroon or Mike Hoffman more sought-after trade candidates than Max Pacioretty?

Then there's Cody Franson, who literally just cleared waivers, at #16 while Tomas Plekanec isn't listed at all?

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14 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Robert Thomas is the guy who's been in more rumors re: Stl. He is a center. I think Kyrou has played both wing and center.

Agree with the sentiment that you need to get either a high-end center prospect or a high-end LHD prospect back, plus at least one other prospect/pick, maybe two. As I said, Ehkolm just doesn't cut it for me. I'd definitely take Ekholm if I thought we were contenders in the next two years. But I don't see the purpose in dealing Pacioretty for a player who'll be 28 next year. That's not really saving us much in terms of getting younger, and it doesn't address our needs for more scoring nor does it help too much with puck movement from the back end, because Ekholm is not much of a puck carrier. Very good player but not a fit for us IMO.

Well the reason i mentioned Ekholm is that i think MB will want a solid roster asset plus that top prospect.  To me Trenin is that guy.  We need to start taking some risks on young players.  You and I both said we should go after Barzal last year and look what he's done now.  NY probably would trade Tavares over him at this point. You dont get these guys once they've proven themselves.

3 minutes ago, ChiLla said:

https://www.tsn.ca/evander-kane-tops-tsn-trade-bait-board-1.965103

Not sure what this ranking is supposed to mean but on what planet are Patrick Maroon or Mike Hoffman more sought-after trade candidates than Max Pacioretty?

Then there's Cody Franson, who literally just cleared waivers, at #16 while Tomas Plekanec isn't listed at all?

I think the rankings are based on who is most likely to move.  I agree plekanec seems like a no-brainer but i have heard talk that since CJ likes him so much there's a possiblity MB resigns him (obviously to a MUCH cheaper contract) this summer so we may not move him?  Seems odd to me. 

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I hear some Oilerfans saying that their best option to escape their cap problem might be to trade Draisaitl since you wont get rid of Lucic or Russel because of NMC's. Unfortunatly sending them Weber wouldnt solve that problem. They have to resign Nurse as well. Now having Sergachev would be nice. :D

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2 minutes ago, Shutoutfan said:

I hear some Oilerfans saying that their best option to escape their cap problem might be to trade Draisaitl since you wont get rid of Lucic or Russel because of NMC's. Unfortunatly sending them Weber wouldnt solve that problem. They have to resign Nurse as well. Now having Sergachev would be nice. :D

Yes and no.

Draitsatl has an 8.5m cap hit compared to Weber's 7.8 so you're right thats not a ton but, you switch cost at positions.   The problem isnt so much that they have high paid players is that they have too many high paid players at the same position, meaning you move guys who are really expensive down the lineup.  Their current centre depth is:
McDavid (12.5m - next year obviously),  Draitsaitl (8.5m), RNH (6m), Strome (2.5m)  Thats 29.5m tied up in your 4 centres.  If you move one of them & then pay your best defensman $7.8 your centres move back in line with what you'd expect from a centre group. (Mcdavid 12.5 - RNH 6 - Strome 2.5 - Rookie/cheap vet 1.5 or less)  

 

I dont know if MB would trade Weber.  I do think its a safe bet that Chiarelli would pay a LOT to get him. Draitsatl?  Dunno.  I think thats the type of player you'd have to send them to get  him to consider moving LD though. 

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1 hour ago, Shutoutfan said:

I hear some Oilerfans saying that their best option to escape their cap problem might be to trade Draisaitl since you wont get rid of Lucic or Russel because of NMC's. Unfortunatly sending them Weber wouldnt solve that problem. They have to resign Nurse as well. Now having Sergachev would be nice. :D

 

1 hour ago, maas_art said:

Yes and no.

Draitsatl has an 8.5m cap hit compared to Weber's 7.8 so you're right thats not a ton but, you switch cost at positions.   The problem isnt so much that they have high paid players is that they have too many high paid players at the same position, meaning you move guys who are really expensive down the lineup.  Their current centre depth is:
McDavid (12.5m - next year obviously),  Draitsaitl (8.5m), RNH (6m), Strome (2.5m)  Thats 29.5m tied up in your 4 centres.  If you move one of them & then pay your best defensman $7.8 your centres move back in line with what you'd expect from a centre group. (Mcdavid 12.5 - RNH 6 - Strome 2.5 - Rookie/cheap vet 1.5 or less)  

 

I dont know if MB would trade Weber.  I do think its a safe bet that Chiarelli would pay a LOT to get him. Draitsatl?  Dunno.  I think thats the type of player you'd have to send them to get  him to consider moving LD though. 

I'd do Draisaitl for Weber in a heartbeat. I think a lot of GM's wouldn't though. I do think we'd still want a D man back though and ideally we want to trade from our wings, where we have depth and where Edm wants to improve, so I'd propose adding on to that with something like

Weber and Gallagher to Edm for Draisaitl and Klefbom

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40 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

 

I'd do Draisaitl for Weber in a heartbeat. I think a lot of GM's wouldn't though. I do think we'd still want a D man back though and ideally we want to trade from our wings, where we have depth and where Edm wants to improve, so I'd propose adding on to that with something like

Weber and Gallagher to Edm for Draisaitl and Klefbom

As awesome as that would be, I don't even think Chia is dumb enough to let Drai go

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Some rumors via Dregger, TFP, Pat HIckey and Bob McKenzie:

- Shaw and McCarron have both been on the trade block all season.  This is interesting but sort of weird to me. Neither are premiere players and neither would bring back a lot in a trade.  Shaw has been much better this season and while I would trade either they arent the kind of guys you "put out there" to attract deals for great players.  Once again seems to acknowledge Bergevin's lack of a plan or central focus.

- Pacioretty will likely be traded but possibly not till the draft.  There seems to be a pretty general consensus he wont be back with us next season. 

- Galchenyuk is still available but not really being "shopped."

- Bergevin's plan (as many of us wondered) once he couldnt sign Markov and Radulov, was to hold on to the cap space until trade deadline.  Its a totally flawed plan - not simply because we were not good enough to be a playoff team without that cap space being used but also because cap is rarely the issue come trade deadline time. Totally bizarre move on his part.

- They havent decided if they are moving Plekanec.  CJ really likes him so i think there's some debate as to whether we'd just resign him next year for our bottom 6.  Obviously you can trade someone & then resign them in the summer but it can complicate things.  I guess the question is always what is he worth? If we can only get a 4th rounder for him and you want to resign him....   but if you can get a 2nd or better, why not move him? 

 

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